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Alexanderhamilton (Alexanderhamilton)
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Post Number: 55
Registered: 9-2013
Posted on Wednesday, October 09, 2013 - 8:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Because a group of men once forgot a very commonly known fact, dozens of men died.

All men are H/A/M, 1st men =/= 2nd men
Redwine (Redwine)
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Post Number: 34
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Posted on Wednesday, October 09, 2013 - 8:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the first group of men know the second group?
Were the men from the first group scientists? Politicians?
Was the forgotten fact about biology? chemistry? physics? maths? history?
Balin (Balin)
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Post Number: 74
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Posted on Thursday, October 10, 2013 - 1:10 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it relevant that "dozens" of men died? Should we consider groups of men that come in a dozen? Juries relevant?
Kayleearafinwiel (Kayleearafinwiel)
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Post Number: 14
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Posted on Thursday, October 10, 2013 - 7:28 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is my (KayleeTonksLupin)'s old "Fruit Loops" puzzle at all relevant? not expecting it to be - I'd be really surprised, lol - but one never knows, on this forum
Alexanderhamilton (Alexanderhamilton)
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Post Number: 59
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Posted on Thursday, October 10, 2013 - 5:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the first group of men know the second group? No
Were the men from the first group scientists? Yes
Politicians? No
Was the forgotten fact about biology? This is closest chemistry? physics? maths? history?

Is it relevant that "dozens" of men died? Should we consider groups of men that come in a dozen? Juries relevant? No to all

is my (KayleeTonksLupin)'s old "Fruit Loops" puzzle at all relevant? not expecting it to be - I'd be really surprised, lol - but one never knows, on this forum If it is, it's a coincidence. I wouldn't focus on the title until endgame
Biograd (Biograd)
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Posted on Thursday, October 10, 2013 - 9:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the relevant fact about medicine? anatomy? botany?

Did the "dozens of men" die of a disease?
Alexanderhamilton (Alexanderhamilton)
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Post Number: 63
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Posted on Thursday, October 10, 2013 - 10:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the relevant fact about medicine? anatomy? botany? None of these, although anatomy is closest

Did the "dozens of men" die of a disease? No
Redwine (Redwine)
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Post Number: 56
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Posted on Friday, October 11, 2013 - 9:53 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the first group of men invent a relevant device?
Amol (Amol)
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Posted on Friday, October 11, 2013 - 10:44 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Accidental deaths ? because of something the men ate ? choking relevant ?

Could the death be called "instantaneous" ?
Alexanderhamilton (Alexanderhamilton)
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Post Number: 66
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Posted on Friday, October 11, 2013 - 1:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the first group of men invent a relevant device? Yes

Accidental deaths ? Yes because of something the men ate ? No choking relevant ? No

Could the death be called "instantaneous" ? Yes
Redwine (Redwine)
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Post Number: 69
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Posted on Friday, October 11, 2013 - 1:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the device not work as expected due to the fact that had been forgotten?
Was it a medical device? Was it an emergency device?
Alexanderhamilton (Alexanderhamilton)
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Post Number: 68
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Posted on Friday, October 11, 2013 - 1:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the device not work as expected due to the fact that had been forgotten? It worked fine

Was it a medical device? Was it an emergency device? No to both
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Friday, October 11, 2013 - 1:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did dozens of men die as a result of using the device?
Alexanderhamilton (Alexanderhamilton)
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Post Number: 69
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Posted on Friday, October 11, 2013 - 1:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did dozens of men die as a result of using the device? Yes
Psydkik (Psydkik)
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Posted on Friday, October 11, 2013 - 3:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the men die due to using the device in a way it was not intended to be used by the scientists?
Alexanderhamilton (Alexanderhamilton)
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Posted on Friday, October 11, 2013 - 4:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the men die due to using the device in a way it was not intended to be used by the scientists? No, the device performed as designed
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Friday, October 11, 2013 - 5:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the design faulty?
Is it correct to say that the device performed as designed but still its performance killed dozens of people?
Or was the impact of the device more indirect?
Kayleearafinwiel (Kayleearafinwiel)
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Posted on Friday, October 11, 2013 - 7:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the device the guillotine? Or a lethal injection? Gas chamber? Or some other form of execution device?
Alexanderhamilton (Alexanderhamilton)
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Posted on Friday, October 11, 2013 - 7:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the design faulty? No
Is it correct to say that the device performed as designed but still its performance killed dozens of people? Yes
Or was the impact of the device more indirect? No

Was the device the guillotine? No Or a lethal injection? No Gas chamber? No Or some other form of execution device? Yes, DYOD
Biograd (Biograd)
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Posted on Friday, October 11, 2013 - 9:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

In your last post, you said that it is a "form of execution device", DYOD. But up above, it was determined that the deaths were accidental. So...

Was the intention of the device to kill people, but the group of men forgetting the fact caused MORE people to be killed than were intended? or was the device intended to kill non-human animals? or was it intended to inflict some sort of injury or harm, but NOT be lethal?

Is it correct to say that the first group of people (the scientists) only invented the device as a result of forgetting the fact? or did them forgetting the fact lead them to conclude, incorrectly, that the effect of the device would be non-lethal?
Alexanderhamilton (Alexanderhamilton)
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Posted on Friday, October 11, 2013 - 10:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the intention of the device to kill people, but the group of men forgetting the fact caused MORE people to be killed than were intended? Noish or was the device intended to kill non-human animals? Yesish, but with a big ish or was it intended to inflict some sort of injury or harm, but NOT be lethal? No

Is it correct to say that the first group of people (the scientists) only invented the device as a result of forgetting the fact? No or did them forgetting the fact lead them to conclude, incorrectly, that the effect of the device would be non-lethal? Noish
Biograd (Biograd)
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Posted on Saturday, October 12, 2013 - 1:01 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the "big ish" have to do with the idea of intention (vs. the device just happening to kill these animals, as a side effect of some other more direct intention)? with the definition of "non-human animal"?

Was it originally thought/intended that this device would kill non-human primates? some other sort of mammal? birds? reptiles? amphibians?

Or was some sort of fictitious/mythical "animal" the intended target of these devices? Speaking of which, do the events in this puzzle happen in modern times? in the "real world" we inhabit?
Alexanderhamilton (Alexanderhamilton)
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Posted on Saturday, October 12, 2013 - 3:29 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the "big ish" have to do with the idea of intention (vs. the device just happening to kill these animals, as a side effect of some other more direct intention)? Yes with the definition of "non-human animal"? No

Was it originally thought/intended that this device would kill non-human primates? No some other sort of mammal? Yes birds? reptiles? amphibians? No to rest

Or was some sort of fictitious/mythical "animal" the intended target of these devices? No Speaking of which, do the events in this puzzle happen in modern times? Roughly in the "real world" we inhabit? Yes
Biograd (Biograd)
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Posted on Saturday, October 12, 2013 - 6:49 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the device intended to trap these animals? scare them away?

Were the animals wolves? bears? rats? some other sort of rodent?
Psydkik (Psydkik)
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Posted on Sunday, October 13, 2013 - 11:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The device was designed to kill non-human animals as a side-effect of some other main desired outcome?

If so, was this main desired outcome:
- to do anything else to non-human animals?
- to do anything to humans?
Alexanderhamilton (Alexanderhamilton)
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Posted on Monday, October 14, 2013 - 12:27 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the device intended to trap these animals? No scare them away? No

Were the animals wolves? bears? rats? some other sort of rodent? No to all
Yojimbo (Yojimbo)
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Posted on Monday, October 14, 2013 - 1:50 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were the animals carnivores? Herbivores? Omnivores? Prey animals?
Whales or other aquatic mammals?
Quadrupeds? Bipeds?
Alexanderhamilton (Alexanderhamilton)
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Posted on Monday, October 14, 2013 - 4:11 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The device was designed to kill non-human animals as a side-effect of some other main desired outcome? Yes

If so, was this main desired outcome:
- to do anything else to non-human animals? No
- to do anything to humans? Yes

Were the animals carnivoresThis? Herbivores? Omnivores? Prey animals? No to the rest
Whales or other aquatic mammals? No
Quadrupeds? This Bipeds? No
Amol (Amol)
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Posted on Monday, October 14, 2013 - 7:03 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the intention to keep the animals away from the human beings ? from other animals ? something like electrocuted fences ?
Psydkik (Psydkik)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 15, 2013 - 12:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the main, human-related, design of the device:
- for sport?
- for other entertainment?
- for medical purposes?
- for gardening?
- for use in building?
- for protection?
Alexanderhamilton (Alexanderhamilton)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 15, 2013 - 1:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Amol (Amol)
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Posted on Monday, October 14, 2013 - 7:03 am:
Is the intention to keep the animals away from the human beings ? from other animals ? something like electrocuted fences ? No to all
Alexanderhamilton (Alexanderhamilton)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 15, 2013 - 1:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Posted on Tuesday, October 15, 2013 - 12:35 pm:
Is the main, human-related, design of the device:
- for sport?
- for other entertainment?
- for medical purposes?
- for gardening?
- for use in building?
- for protection? This is closest

BLOOPER: I should have answered that this does NOT take place in modern times.
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 15, 2013 - 1:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it a sort of weapon? Something people can wear?
Alexanderhamilton (Alexanderhamilton)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 15, 2013 - 4:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it a sort of weapon? This Something people can wear?
Psydkik (Psydkik)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 16, 2013 - 2:11 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it a type of weapon that requires ammo (eg guns, bow-and-arrows?)

Is it for close-up hand-to-hand fighting? Or for further-away ranged fighting?
Alexanderhamilton (Alexanderhamilton)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 16, 2013 - 2:18 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it a type of weapon that requires ammo (eg guns, bow-and-arrows?) No

Is it for close-up hand-to-hand fighting? No Or for further-away ranged fighting? Kinda this
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 16, 2013 - 8:36 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the weapon need a man to operate it when the animal comes? Is it more sort of thing that operates by itself when the animal comes into its range (like mines)?
Alexanderhamilton (Alexanderhamilton)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 16, 2013 - 1:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the weapon need a man to operate it when the animal comes? No, possible FA Is it more sort of thing that operates by itself when the animal comes into its range (like mines)? No, and possibly same FA (but mines are OTRT)
Psydkik (Psydkik)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 16, 2013 - 2:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the weapon a kind of trap? Or other device that you put in place and walk away from?
Alexanderhamilton (Alexanderhamilton)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 16, 2013 - 3:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the weapon a kind of trap? noish Or other device that you put in place and walk away from? You don't walk away from it...
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 16, 2013 - 3:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it a sort of protection that someone sets around his/her house?
Alexanderhamilton (Alexanderhamilton)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 16, 2013 - 7:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it a sort of protection that someone sets around his/her house? No
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Thursday, October 17, 2013 - 9:40 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

You don't walk away from it, but does it walk away from you? Does one have it with him/her all the time when it's in use?

Did dozens of people die immediately after having used the device?
Alexanderhamilton (Alexanderhamilton)
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Posted on Thursday, October 17, 2013 - 1:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

You don't walk away from it, but does it walk away from you? The devise itself doesn't, but... Does one have it with him/her all the time when it's in use? No

Did dozens of people die immediately after having used the device? Possible FA, and no
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Thursday, October 17, 2013 - 1:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were dozens of people who died the same people who used the device?
Did the device emit something lethal when in use?
Alexanderhamilton (Alexanderhamilton)
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Posted on Thursday, October 17, 2013 - 2:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were dozens of people who died the same people who used the device? Yes
Did the device emit something lethal when in use? Technically yes
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Friday, October 18, 2013 - 9:18 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the device emit gas? Radiation? Did it backfire?
Alexanderhamilton (Alexanderhamilton)
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Posted on Friday, October 18, 2013 - 1:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the device emit gas? No Radiation? No Did it backfire? Yes
Psydkik (Psydkik)
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Posted on Saturday, October 19, 2013 - 4:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The main purpose of the device was to be a weapon? A weapon to kill humans? A weapon that involves multiple parts? Multiple parts that are placed by the user and left to cause damage at a later time?

A known side-effect of this weapon was that it would kill some non-human animals?

An unexpected side-effect of this weapon, caused because the designers forgot a fact, was that it also killed the users of the weapon?
Alexanderhamilton (Alexanderhamilton)
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Posted on Sunday, October 20, 2013 - 4:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The main purpose of the device was to be a weapon? Yes A weapon to kill humans? Yes A weapon that involves multiple parts? Yesish Multiple parts that are placed by the user and left to cause damage at a later time? Yope

A known side-effect of this weapon was that it would kill some non-human animals? Yes

An unexpected side-effect of this weapon, caused because the designers forgot a fact, was that it also killed the users of the weapon? Yes, except I wouldn't say it was the designers of the weapon who forgot the fact, but "designers" of the project in a broader sense
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Sunday, October 20, 2013 - 6:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it a bomb of sorts?
Alexanderhamilton (Alexanderhamilton)
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Posted on Sunday, October 20, 2013 - 7:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it a bomb of sorts? Yes
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Sunday, October 20, 2013 - 9:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the bomb dropped from planes? Was the bomb designed to be shot from a canon? to be planted somewhere by humans?
Psydkik (Psydkik)
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Posted on Sunday, October 20, 2013 - 9:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were the users of the bomb killed by the bomb itself? Or killed by something else that was indirectly caused by the bomb?
Alexanderhamilton (Alexanderhamilton)
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Posted on Monday, October 21, 2013 - 12:44 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the bomb dropped from planes? Was the bomb designed to be shot from a canon? to be planted somewhere by humans? No to all

Were the users of the bomb killed by the bomb itself? This Or killed by something else that was indirectly caused by the bomb?
Psydkik (Psydkik)
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Posted on Monday, October 21, 2013 - 2:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the bomb succeed in killing the humans it was intended to kill?

Was the bomb released in an manner unexpected to the designers? or not released at all?

Were the users killed by the bomb because:
- the bomb didn't move away from them as far as expected?
- they didn't move away from the bomb as far as expected?
- the bomb exploded in a manner different from that expected?

Is this a one-off event? Did this happen every time the bomb was used? Or was it an occasional happening?
Alexanderhamilton (Alexanderhamilton)
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Posted on Monday, October 21, 2013 - 3:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the bomb succeed in killing the humans it was intended to kill? Wikipedia tells me sometimes

Was the bomb released in an manner unexpected to the designers? Yesish or not released at all? No

Were the users killed by the bomb because:
- the bomb didn't move away from them as far as expected? Yes
- they didn't move away from the bomb as far as expected? No
- the bomb exploded in a manner different from that expected? No

Is this a one-off event? No Did this happen every time the bomb was used? No Or was it an occasional happening? Yes
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Monday, October 21, 2013 - 6:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are bombs in question torpedoes?
Alexanderhamilton (Alexanderhamilton)
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Are bombs in question torpedoes? No
Psydkik (Psydkik)
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Posted on Monday, October 21, 2013 - 11:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were the bombs designed to kill humans in the air? on the ground? under the ground? on the sea? in the sea?

When they were released successfully and didn't go wrong, were the bombs thrown by a human? were they fired with the aid of gunpowder? were they dropped? could they power themselves to travel?

When they worked, did they do damage by exploding and hitting people with pieces of ammo caused by the exploding bomb? Did they do damage by setting things on fire? Did they do damage through chemical means?

Were they some sort of rocket?
Alexanderhamilton (Alexanderhamilton)
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Posted on Monday, October 21, 2013 - 11:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were the bombs designed to kill humans in the air? on the ground? This Under the ground? on the sea? in the sea?

When they were released successfully and didn't go wrong, were the bombs thrown by a human? No were they fired with the aid of gunpowder? no were they dropped? no Could they power themselves to travel? No, it will help enormously if you figure out the delivery system though.

When they worked, did they do damage by exploding and hitting people with pieces of ammo caused by the exploding bomb? Did they do damage by setting things on fire? Did they do damage through chemical means? I'm fairly certain they were your typical bomb, killing with pure explosive power rather than chemicals or shrapnel or the like

Were they some sort of rocket? no
Psydkik (Psydkik)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 22, 2013 - 1:02 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hmm, yes, the delivery method is certainly intriguing

After being released, and before blowing up, on the occasions where the bombs worked as intended:
- were they ever underwater?
- were they ever on water?
- were they ever underground?
- were they ever in the air above head height? above the height of a mid-sized tree? above the height of a mountain?
- did they travel anywhere? more than a metre? more than 100 metres? more than a kilometre?
- were they attached to any other piece of equipment?

Were the extra deaths caused by unexpected behaviour of the bombs themselves? Or of the device(s) used to release them?

Were weather conditions a significant factor of the bombs' success or failure?
Alexanderhamilton (Alexanderhamilton)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 22, 2013 - 1:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

After being released, and before blowing up, on the occasions where the bombs worked as intended:
- were they ever underwater?
- were they ever on water?
- were they ever underground?
- were they ever in the air above head height? above the height of a mid-sized tree? above the height of a mountain? No to all of the above
- did they travel anywhere? Yes more than a metre? Yes more than 100 metres? Sometimes this more than a kilometre? Never this
- were they attached to any other piece of equipment? Yes, using a very broad definition of equipment. It was attached to something

Were the extra deaths caused by unexpected behaviour of the bombs themselves? No Or of the device(s) used to release them? The something there were attached to caused the deaths

Were weather conditions a significant factor of the bombs' success or failure? Not relevantly

You're forgetting a back-and-forth earlier in the thread that would help immensely
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 22, 2013 - 1:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were the bombs launched from distance? planted?
Did the bombs require to be detonated by someone? Or did they detonate automatically once something happens?
I imagine a bomb planted under a car that (the bomb) sets off automatically few seconds after the car moves... Is this OTRT?
Alexanderhamilton (Alexanderhamilton)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 22, 2013 - 1:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were the bombs launched from distance? Yes, assuming a generic definition of 'launched' planted? No
Did the bombs require to be detonated by someone? No Or did they detonate automatically once something happens? This
I imagine a bomb planted under a car that (the bomb) sets off automatically few seconds after the car moves... Is this OTRT? Slightly ORT, but it doesn't go off automatically and the carrier isn't a car
Amol (Amol)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 22, 2013 - 1:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the trigger mechanism of the bomb relevant ? Did some people who planted the bomb die because they triggered it ?

bows and arrows involved ?

The common fact forgotten by the bomb designers: does it have to do with:
human biology / physiology ?
curiosity ? emotions ?
movement ? speed of movement ?
concentration ? distraction ?
memory (or lack thereof) ?
Alexanderhamilton (Alexanderhamilton)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 22, 2013 - 1:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the trigger mechanism of the bomb relevant ? Did some people who planted the bomb die because they triggered it ? I'll just kill this line of questioning by saying it was designed to detonate on contact, much like a mine does

bows and arrows involved ? That'd be a sight to see, but no

The common fact forgotten by the bomb designers: does it have to do with:
human biology / physiology ?
curiosity ? emotions ?
movement ? speed of movement ?
concentration ? distraction ?
memory (or lack thereof) ? Rephrase. A lot of these are ORT
Psydkik (Psydkik)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 23, 2013 - 12:41 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Oh, eek, they put the bomb inside an animal? Or attached it to the animal? So the animal was the method of delivery? :-S
Alexanderhamilton (Alexanderhamilton)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 23, 2013 - 4:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Oh, eek, they put the bomb inside an animal? No Or attached it to the animal? Yes! So the animal was the method of delivery? :-S I'm afraid so
Kayleearafinwiel (Kayleearafinwiel)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 23, 2013 - 5:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

oh, not a kitteh! =( *hopes not*
Psydkik (Psydkik)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 23, 2013 - 7:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So when all went to plan, they attached the bomb to the poor animal, and it then wandered off to their enemy, whereupon it exploded, killing both animal and target humans?

But when it didn't go to plan, the bomb went off before being attached to the animal? Or after attachment but when the animal was still in close proximity to the users?

Was the animal a rat? Humans seem to kill a lot of rats without undue moral turmoil.
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 23, 2013 - 7:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was it likely that the animal would go back and touch the human who released it?
Alexanderhamilton (Alexanderhamilton)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 23, 2013 - 8:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

oh, not a kitteh! =( *hopes not* Rest assured, no cats were harmed

So when all went to plan, they attached the bomb to the poor animal, and it then wandered off to their enemy, whereupon it exploded, killing both animal and target humans? Yes

But when it didn't go to plan, the bomb went off before being attached to the animal? No Or after attachment but when the animal was still in close proximity to the users? Yesish

Was the animal a rat? No Humans seem to kill a lot of rats without undue moral turmoil.

Was it likely that the animal would go back and touch the human who released it? Not the one who released it, no
Psydkik (Psydkik)
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Posted on Thursday, October 24, 2013 - 12:52 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

If the animal had been a computerised device that could be perfectly controlled by the user to travel or stop in any direction, would the problems of unexpected deaths still have occurred?
Alexanderhamilton (Alexanderhamilton)
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Posted on Thursday, October 24, 2013 - 12:59 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

If the animal had been a computerised device that could be perfectly controlled by the user to travel or stop in any direction, would the problems of unexpected deaths still have occurred? No
Psydkik (Psydkik)
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Posted on Thursday, October 24, 2013 - 10:28 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the Fact forgotten by the scientists to do with animal behaviour?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Thursday, October 24, 2013 - 1:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were the animals birds?
Alexanderhamilton (Alexanderhamilton)
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Posted on Thursday, October 24, 2013 - 1:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Posted on Thursday, October 24, 2013 - 10:28 am:
Was the Fact forgotten by the scientists to do with animal behaviour? Yes

Were the animals birds? No
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Thursday, October 24, 2013 - 1:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I wonder how did they make animals to go where intended...
Were the users of the bomb owners of these animals?
Were the target humans owners of these animals?
Were animals lured into the proximity of target humans with food? Were the animals given something that belonged to target humans to smell sample?
Alexanderhamilton (Alexanderhamilton)
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Posted on Thursday, October 24, 2013 - 2:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I wonder how did they make animals to go where intended... Curious indeed...
Were the users of the bomb owners of these animals? Yes, DOYD of "owner"
Were the target humans owners of these animals? No
Were animals lured into the proximity of target humans with food? Yope Were the animals given something that belonged to target humans to smell sample? No
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Thursday, October 24, 2013 - 5:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the purpose of the bombs to destroy tanks? Were animals dogs?
Alexanderhamilton (Alexanderhamilton)
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Posted on Thursday, October 24, 2013 - 5:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the purpose of the bombs to destroy tanks? Were animals dogs? Yes and yes!
Kalira (Kalira)
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Posted on Thursday, October 24, 2013 - 5:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is Pavlov relevant? (Does that explain the yope in the last set of answers? Were the animals dogs?
Kalira (Kalira)
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Posted on Thursday, October 24, 2013 - 5:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Whoops... this is why you're supposed to refresh and make sure nobody else has posted if you've had the window open a long time.
Alexanderhamilton (Alexanderhamilton)
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Posted on Thursday, October 24, 2013 - 5:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is Pavlov relevant? His work certainly is(Does that explain the yope in the last set of answers?) Yes
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Thursday, October 24, 2013 - 7:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ooh... I know this one. Should I email or can I swoop?
Alexanderhamilton (Alexanderhamilton)
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Posted on Thursday, October 24, 2013 - 8:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

We're pretty close to the end now. I say swoop, especially since Redwine's questions make me think he's just about there anyways.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Thursday, October 24, 2013 - 8:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks.

Soviet military engineers trained dogs armed with explosives to crawl under German tanks, thus blowing them up. They did this by placing food under training tanks, thus conditioning the dogs to travel there when in a battle situation. However, they trained the dogs using tanks filled with Soviet fuel, which smelled nothing like German fuel. So when they released a squad of these dogs in battle, they went straight for the Soviet tanks and took them out of commission instead.
Alexanderhamilton (Alexanderhamilton)
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Posted on Thursday, October 24, 2013 - 8:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks.

Soviet military engineers trained dogs armed with explosives to crawl under German tanks, thus blowing them up. They did this by placing food under training tanks, thus conditioning the dogs to travel there when in a battle situation. However, they trained the dogs using tanks filled with Soviet fuel, which smelled nothing like German fuel. So when they released a squad of these dogs in battle, they went straight for the Soviet tanks and took them out of commission instead. Couldn't have said it better myself, but I'll try...
***********SPOILER************
In WWII, the Soviets decided to train dogs to take out German tanks by strapping them with bombs. The basic training regimen was fairly simply: keep the dogs hungry, place food under tanks disguised to look like German tanks, and release them. Eventually the dogs were trained to dive under tanks if they wanted to get food.

The program was nothing short of a disaster. They trained on stationary tanks that weren't shooting at them, so most of the time the dogs would simply run from the tanks. But the biggest problem was that the Soviet engineers forgot a rather commonly-known fact: dogs hunt with their noses primarily, and only then by sight.

The dogs trained using Soviet tanks painted to look like German panzers (at least they get kudos for avoiding the scrund that dogs can't see color). But while Soviet tanks ran on gasoline, the German tanks ran on diesel. So in tank battles, the dogs would run under the tanks that smelled familiar... the Soviet tanks!


The bright side to this story is that the early failure of the project meant most of the dogs marked for death were spared. Great job to everyone, especially Balin for the solve, and Redwine and Psydkik for their great questions.
Wizardofnz (Wizardofnz)
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Posted on Thursday, October 24, 2013 - 9:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I saw this in one of Paul's books (so didn't take part once I cottoned on), but the explanation only went as far as 'unfortunately, German tanks smell nothing like Russian tanks' - it's nice to see a more elaborate explanation.
Psydkik (Psydkik)
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Posted on Friday, October 25, 2013 - 1:30 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Man's best friend... until it becomes useful to blow said friend up in an effort to blow up other man.

What a cheery bunch we are. Nice puzzle and interesting answer.
Alexanderhamilton (Alexanderhamilton)
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Posted on Friday, October 25, 2013 - 5:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Now that we're at the end... how many people get the title?
Psydkik (Psydkik)
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Posted on Friday, October 25, 2013 - 5:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

*doesn't put hand up*
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Friday, October 25, 2013 - 9:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

*me neither*
Kayleearafinwiel (Kayleearafinwiel)
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Posted on Sunday, October 27, 2013 - 5:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

*is losted kitteh*

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