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Wizardofnz (Wizardofnz)
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Post Number: 672
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Posted on Thursday, October 17, 2013 - 11:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Throughout the mid-2000s, thousands of German citizens received quantities of class A drugs, deadly materials, and hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of inadmissable currency. Although the citizens received these items actively, not passively, the practice has not been stopped, and none of these citizens have been prosecuted. Why not?

Early spoliers, you know what to do. Although I don't know how much more my heart can take.
Balin (Balin)
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Post Number: 107
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Posted on Friday, October 18, 2013 - 12:06 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are the particular drugs relevant?
"Deadly materials" - do they have ordinary, non-deadly uses?
Is the adoption of the Euro relevant?
Wizardofnz (Wizardofnz)
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Posted on Friday, October 18, 2013 - 12:08 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are the particular drugs relevant? yes
"Deadly materials" - do they have ordinary, non-deadly uses? yes
Is the adoption of the Euro relevant? no
Doriana (Doriana)
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Post Number: 138
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Posted on Friday, October 18, 2013 - 12:26 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were they given the drugs for medical use? Methadone relevant?
Wizardofnz (Wizardofnz)
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Posted on Friday, October 18, 2013 - 12:35 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were they given the drugs for medical use? no Methadone relevant? no
Alexanderhamilton (Alexanderhamilton)
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Post Number: 124
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Posted on Friday, October 18, 2013 - 2:56 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The drugs:
Heroin?
Cocaine?
Marijuana?
Meth?
Mushrooms?
Ecstacy?
LSD?
Bath Salts?

Was the activity these thousands of Germans were engaged in actually illegal?
Wizardofnz (Wizardofnz)
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Post Number: 678
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Posted on Friday, October 18, 2013 - 3:01 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The drugs:
Heroin?
Cocaine? predominantly this
Marijuana?
Meth?
Mushrooms?
Ecstacy?
LSD?
Bath Salts?

Was the activity these thousands of Germans were engaged in actually illegal? no
Redwine (Redwine)
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Post Number: 205
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Posted on Friday, October 18, 2013 - 9:14 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was cocaine mixed with something? Was it an ingredient of something legal?
Were the quantities received by German citizens too small to provoke reaction?
Deadly materials - weapons? Knives?
Is it relevant where German citizens obtained this stuff from?
Psydkik (Psydkik)
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Post Number: 284
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Posted on Friday, October 18, 2013 - 11:36 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do these citizens all work in similar jobs?
Doriana (Doriana)
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Post Number: 139
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Posted on Friday, October 18, 2013 - 11:53 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Traces of cocaine on bills relevant?
Alexanderhamilton (Alexanderhamilton)
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Post Number: 128
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Posted on Friday, October 18, 2013 - 4:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Pretty sure Doriana nailed this one, but just in case...

Is the title relevant, other than simply being a pun for German?

So the method of exchanging drugs will occasionally be with drugs other than cocaine? But it's usually cocaine?

"Inadmissible currency": Switch to the Euro relevant? Is the currency bills? Coins? Are they Euros?
Solo1 (Solo1)
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Posted on Friday, October 18, 2013 - 5:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Wait a minute - we haven't reached the mid-2000s yet. So is this fiction? science fiction? FSEI? FYOI? a prediction?
Wizardofnz (Wizardofnz)
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Posted on Sunday, October 20, 2013 - 9:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

***** CORRECTION *****

Although Cocaine does feature in the solution, it wouldn't be accurate to call it the 'predominant' drug. There is another, more relevant one to the solution. My apologies.


Redwine:

Was cocaine mixed with something? no, but explore Was it an ingredient of something legal? no
Were the quantities received by German citizens too small to provoke reaction? yes
Deadly materials - weapons? Knives? no to both
Is it relevant where German citizens obtained this stuff from? yes

Psydkik:

Do these citizens all work in similar jobs? not relevantly

Doriana:

Traces of cocaine on bills relevant? Yes - but we're still some distance from the complete picture.

AlexanderHamilton:

Is the title relevant, other than simply being a pun for German? No. Mine never are.

So the method of exchanging drugs will occasionally be with drugs other than cocaine? to elaborate on my correction, always with drugs other than cocaine in this solution But it's usually cocaine? cocaine is usually or always present, too

"Inadmissible currency": Switch to the Euro relevant? still no Is the currency bills? yes Coins? no Are they Euros? yes

Solo1:

Wait a minute - we haven't reached the mid-2000s yet. So is this fiction? science fiction? FSEI? FYOI? a prediction? Fair call. I meant the middle of the decade 2000-2010. Otherwise, I could make this solution anything I wanted, involving snazzilizers and romiframptons, and the qualicork of the right-hand adjubibble of Jupiter. Fortunately, you don't need to plumb the deep and frightening recesses of my imagination to solve this one.
Psydkik (Psydkik)
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Posted on Sunday, October 20, 2013 - 9:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were the citizens given them? Did they request them or order them? Did they have to pay for them?

Were the drugs, deadly materials and currency all part of the same item? Or more than one item?

Did they acquire them from abroad?
Wizardofnz (Wizardofnz)
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Posted on Sunday, October 20, 2013 - 9:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were the citizens given them? yes Did they request them or order them? 'request' is probably closest Did they have to pay for them? yes

Were the drugs, deadly materials and currency all part of the same item? yes Or more than one item? no

Did they acquire them from abroad? yes - at one point
Psydkik (Psydkik)
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Posted on Monday, October 21, 2013 - 12:39 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So the "inadmissable currency" was Euro notes?

These notes contained or were attached to a deadly material?

And these notes contained or were attached to some cocaine? And a second drug?


Did the citizens try to spend the currency? Use it for some other purpose? Play Monopoly with it? Throw it away? Send it back?
Wizardofnz (Wizardofnz)
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Posted on Monday, October 21, 2013 - 12:41 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So the "inadmissable currency" was Euro notes? Yes. But that's not why they were inadmissable

These notes contained or were attached to a deadly material? contained

And these notes contained or were attached to some cocaine? And a second drug? yes to both


Did the citizens try to spend the currency? most would have, yes Use it for some other purpose? Play Monopoly with it? no Throw it away? some would have Send it back? unlikely
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Monday, October 21, 2013 - 9:16 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Deadly materials - poison? Something emiting radiation?
Were Euro notes forged?
Doriana (Doriana)
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Posted on Monday, October 21, 2013 - 6:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did this only apply to German citizens? Or to other citizens of the Euro zone as well?

Did the citizens know that the notes contained the deadly material? that the notes contained drugs?

Is the deadly material commonly found in notes?
Wizardofnz (Wizardofnz)
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Posted on Monday, October 21, 2013 - 8:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

<font color="red">Redwine:</red>

Deadly materials - poison? no Something emiting radiation? no - but OTRT in both cases
Were Euro notes forged? no

Doriana

Did this only apply to German citizens? I didn't find reports of it happening elsewhere, but it could plausibly have happened in other countries Or to other citizens of the Euro zone as well? see above

Did the citizens know that the notes contained the deadly material? no - not at first that the notes contained drugs? as above

Is the deadly material commonly found in notes? no
Wizardofnz (Wizardofnz)
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Posted on Monday, October 21, 2013 - 8:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ugh, please excuse the sloppy html
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Monday, October 21, 2013 - 10:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Deadly materials: germs? viruses? If none of the above, were the materials organic? synthetic?

Were the notes inadmissible because of the source they came from? Money laundering relevant?
Wizardofnz (Wizardofnz)
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Posted on Monday, October 21, 2013 - 10:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Deadly materials: germs? viruses? no to both If none of the above, were the materials organic? synthetic? synthetic is closer

Were the notes inadmissible because of the source they came from? their source rendered the notes inadmissable, but the money wasn't inadmissable simply by virtue of being from a particular source Money laundering relevant? no
Psydkik (Psydkik)
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Posted on Monday, October 21, 2013 - 11:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

You can avoid sloppy html by using the simpler forum codes instead: "\red {Redwine}" will give you what you wanted ;-)

If they had not contained deadly materials or drugs, would the notes have been valid legal Euro notes - admissable currency?

Were the notes acquired from ATMs?

Were the notes all new? Or all used? Or a mixture?
Wizardofnz (Wizardofnz)
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Posted on Monday, October 21, 2013 - 11:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

If they had not contained deadly materials or drugs, would the notes have been valid legal Euro notes - admissable currency? yes

Were the notes acquired from ATMs? yes!!

Were the notes all new? Or all used? this Or a mixture?
Psydkik (Psydkik)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 22, 2013 - 9:57 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was it just one ATM? A few ATMs? All ATMs in Germany?

Was/were the ATM(s) faulty?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 22, 2013 - 10:15 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the notes contain deadly materials and drugs before they were put into ATM(s)? If yes, is their original source relevant?
Just to clarify: did all the notes in question contain cocaine, second drug and deadly materials all at the same time?
Did the notes contain only one deadly material (excluding cocaine and other drug)?
Wizardofnz (Wizardofnz)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 22, 2013 - 11:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Psydkik:

Was it just one ATM? A few ATMs? All ATMs in Germany? potentially this

Was/were the ATM(s) faulty? no

Redwine:

Did the notes contain deadly materials and drugs before they were put into ATM(s)? yes If yes, is their original source relevant? yes
Just to clarify: did all the notes in question contain cocaine, second drug and deadly materials all at the same time? yes
Did the notes contain only one deadly material (excluding cocaine and other drug)? yes
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 23, 2013 - 3:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was it bank employees who put drugs and deadly materials onto the notes? Bank officials? The country's law enforcement? The country's government?
Were the notes already in Germany when they got contaminated with drugs and deadly materials?
Wizardofnz (Wizardofnz)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 23, 2013 - 9:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was it bank employees who put drugs and deadly materials onto the notes? no Bank officials? no The country's law enforcement? no The country's government? no
Were the notes already in Germany when they got contaminated with drugs and deadly materials? the notes were already contaminated when they arrived in Germany
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Thursday, October 24, 2013 - 3:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were the notes contaminated on purpose? Is it relevant who was the owner of the relevant ATM(s)?
Was the deadly material a chemical element? More complex substance?
Wizardofnz (Wizardofnz)
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Posted on Thursday, October 24, 2013 - 8:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were the notes contaminated on purpose? yes Is it relevant who was the owner of the relevant ATM(s)? no
Was the deadly material a chemical element? chemicals are relevant More complex substance? yes, more complex than a simple element
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Friday, October 25, 2013 - 10:52 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was anyone of the receivers of the notes aware of contamination and using it for a purpose?
Did the people/entities who were owners of the notes before they arrived in Germany expect that the notes would appear in German ATM(s)?
Did the contaminated notes distract those who were performing drug/deadly materials tests on the possessors of the notes? So that testers thought they found only traces of drugs/deadly materials, when in fact possessors had much bigger amounts of drugs/deadly materials on them?
Alexanderhamilton (Alexanderhamilton)
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Posted on Friday, October 25, 2013 - 5:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it relevant which country the Euro notes came from before Germany? If so, [Insert list of EU countries here]?

Were the notes contaminated while in general circulation? Was there a concerted effort or conspiracy to contaminate the notes? Were the notes contaminated by a single person? By a group of people? If so, was the number of people closest to 10, 100, 1000, 10000, etc.?

The notes were "inadmissable": As evidence in a court of law? Or could they not be used in a transaction? Were they 'inadmissable' solely because of the chemicals?
Wizardofnz (Wizardofnz)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 29, 2013 - 7:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Redwine:

Was anyone of the receivers of the notes aware of contamination and using it for a purpose? no
Did the people/entities who were owners of the notes before they arrived in Germany expect that the notes would appear in German ATM(s)? irrelevant, but the thought probably never crossed their mind
Did the contaminated notes distract those who were performing drug/deadly materials tests on the possessors of the notes? So that testers thought they found only traces of drugs/deadly materials, when in fact possessors had much bigger amounts of drugs/deadly materials on them? interesting thought, but no

Alexanderhamilton:

Is it relevant which country the Euro notes came from before Germany? If so, [Insert list of EU countries here]? They came from Eastern Europe - this is possibly helpful if you're well-versed in modern European history and culture. I'm not.

Were the notes contaminated while in general circulation? yes Was there a concerted effort or conspiracy to contaminate the notes? it is fair to say there was a 'concerted effort' to contaminate the notes with class A drugs, but the deadly materials were an unintended consequence Were the notes contaminated by a single person? By a group of people? this If so, was the number of people closest to 10, 100, 1000 liable to be this, 10000, etc.?

The notes were "inadmissable": As evidence in a court of law? Or could they not be used in a transaction? this Were they 'inadmissable' solely because of the chemicals? yes, inasmuch as an estimated 80% of banknotes would have had a similar level of concentration of drugs.
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Thursday, October 31, 2013 - 3:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the predominant drug morphine? Is it relevant which drug exactly it was?
Were the notes printed in Eastern Europe? Were they contaminated in printing? In transport?
Wizardofnz (Wizardofnz)
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Posted on Thursday, October 31, 2013 - 7:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the predominant drug morphine? no Is it relevant which drug exactly it was? yes, due to its chemical composition
Were the notes printed in Eastern Europe? possibly. irrelevant Were they contaminated in printing? In transport? no - but exploring the timing/reason for contamination will prove useful
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Monday, November 04, 2013 - 1:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were the notes contaminated after printing, while still in the printing place? Were they contaminated during packaging? Were they packed together with drugs and deadly materials? Were the notes transported directly from Eastern Europe to Germany?
Wizardofnz (Wizardofnz)
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Posted on Monday, November 04, 2013 - 8:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were the notes contaminated after printing, while still in the printing place? no Were they contaminated during packaging? no Were they packed together with drugs and deadly materials? no Were the notes transported directly from Eastern Europe to Germany? no - they were circulated in Eastern Europe first.
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Monday, November 04, 2013 - 8:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were they contaminated by Eastern Europe users? Were they contaminated at the border?
Wizardofnz (Wizardofnz)
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Posted on Monday, November 04, 2013 - 8:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were they contaminated by Eastern Europe users? yes - with the drugs. The deadly materials were an unintended consequence of this. Were they contaminated at the border? no
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Monday, November 04, 2013 - 8:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were the predominant class A drug: depressant? opioide? sedative? stimulant? halucinogen? Was it methadone?
Did the people who contaminated the notes expect them to appear in Germany? Or were they contaminated for the sake of Eastern Europe users?
Wizardofnz (Wizardofnz)
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Posted on Monday, November 04, 2013 - 8:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were the predominant class A drug: depressant? opioide? sedative? stimulant? this halucinogen? Was it methadone? still no
Did the people who contaminated the notes expect them to appear in Germany? no Or were they contaminated for the sake of Eastern Europe users? yes!
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Monday, November 04, 2013 - 9:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the class A drug: Nicotine? Dopamine? Amphetamine? Pseudoephedrine? Caffeine?
Is it relevant who used the notes in Eastern Europe? Were they used for legal purposes?
Wizardofnz (Wizardofnz)
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Posted on Monday, November 04, 2013 - 9:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the class A drug: Nicotine? Dopamine? Amphetamine? a kind of this Pseudoephedrine? Caffeine?
Is it relevant who used the notes in Eastern Europe? yes Were they used for legal purposes? to invoke the contamination - no!
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Wednesday, November 06, 2013 - 11:02 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were the notes used by drug dealers? Were the notes contaminated for the sake of law enforcement, to trace their circulation?
Alexanderhamilton (Alexanderhamilton)
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Posted on Wednesday, November 06, 2013 - 3:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were the notes contaminated in the course of a crime (besides the crime of contaminating them)? As the means to a crime?

Are any of the following crimes relevant?
Drug dealing or manufacturing?
Forgery?
White color crimes?
Violent crime (murder, assault, etc.)?
Robbery or thievery?
Smuggling?
Prostitution?
Environmental violations?
Wizardofnz (Wizardofnz)
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Posted on Wednesday, November 06, 2013 - 8:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were the notes used by drug dealers? yes (and their customers!) Were the notes contaminated for the sake of law enforcement, to trace their circulation? no

Alexanderhamilton:

Were the notes contaminated in the course of a crime (besides the crime of contaminating them)? yes! As the means to a crime? this, too!

Are any of the following crimes relevant?
Drug dealing or manufacturing? yes
Forgery?
White color crimes?
Violent crime (murder, assault, etc.)?
Robbery or thievery?
Smuggling?
Prostitution?
Environmental violations? no to the rest
Alexanderhamilton (Alexanderhamilton)
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Posted on Wednesday, November 06, 2013 - 8:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I recall now (thanks to Breaking Bad) that meth is pretty big in Eastern Europe. Is that the type of amphetamine we're talking about?

Can bills be used to take meth in the same way they're used to take cocaine? Are they used in the manufacture of meth? Either way, does it leave the type of deadly chemicals often involved in meth use/meth production? And these bills end up in German ATM's?
Wizardofnz (Wizardofnz)
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Posted on Wednesday, November 06, 2013 - 8:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I recall now (thanks to Breaking Bad) that meth is pretty big in Eastern Europe. Is that the type of amphetamine we're talking about? Yes, it is. Television to the rescue, again!

Can bills be used to take meth in the same way they're used to take cocaine? Yes! Are they used in the manufacture of meth? no Either way, does it leave the type of deadly chemicals often involved in meth use/meth production? no - these specific chemicals are not relevant to the solution And these bills end up in German ATM's? this is correct
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Thursday, November 07, 2013 - 11:34 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it relevant how did the notes were transferred from "illegal" circulation on drug dealing market to legal circulation in German ATM's?
Was it a mistake of someone from drug producing/dealing industry? Was it connected with money laundering?
Psydkik (Psydkik)
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Posted on Thursday, November 07, 2013 - 12:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So the notes were used by drug users as a tool for taking meth?
And/or used in payment to drug dealers?

And a combination of these two things caused amounts of meth to contaminate the notes?

And the presence of this meth led to the further contamination by deadly materials?

And because Euro notes are legal tender in most of Europe, these notes gradually made their way out of the countries in which they were used for drugs, and into circulation in Germany, where they appeared at ATMs and presumably also elsewhere around Germany?
Alexanderhamilton (Alexanderhamilton)
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Posted on Thursday, November 07, 2013 - 4:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

If you were to hand me one of the "inadmissible" notes and a regular note, would I immediately be able to say which was which? If there is a notable difference, is that what makes the bills inadmissible? Or is the mere presence of the drugs or chemicals what makes them inadmissible?

Did the chemicals ends up on the bills during production of meth? During the dealing of meth? In preparation of doing meth? While doing meth? After doing meth?
Wizardofnz (Wizardofnz)
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Posted on Thursday, November 07, 2013 - 7:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Redwine:

Is it relevant how did the notes were transferred from "illegal" circulation on drug dealing market to legal circulation in German ATM's? no, this stage of the process is not relevant
Was it a mistake of someone from drug producing/dealing industry? no Was it connected with money laundering? no

Psydkik:

So the notes were used by drug users as a tool for taking meth? correct!
And/or used in payment to drug dealers? irrelevant

And a combination of these two things caused amounts of meth to contaminate the notes? essentially just the first

And the presence of this meth led to the further contamination by deadly materials? Yes! How?

And because Euro notes are legal tender in most of Europe, these notes gradually made their way out of the countries in which they were used for drugs, and into circulation in Germany, where they appeared at ATMs and presumably also elsewhere around Germany? this is correct - the report I took this from focused on the phenomena of ATMs dispensing currency that was 'inadmissable' (how?) but it's quite likely these notes appeared elsewhere in circulation.

Alexanderhamilton:

If you were to hand me one of the "inadmissible" notes and a regular note, would I immediately be able to say which was which? yes If there is a notable difference, is that what makes the bills inadmissible? the notably different aspect is the aspect that renders the notes inadmissable, yes Or is the mere presence of the drugs or chemicals what makes them inadmissible? No

Did the chemicals ends up on the bills during production of meth? During the dealing of meth? In preparation of doing meth? While doing meth? After doing meth? this

Good questions.
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Friday, November 08, 2013 - 9:53 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the banknotes react somehow with the meth?
And if yes:
Were the deadly materials a result of that reaction? Were the banknotes damaged by the reaction?
Wizardofnz (Wizardofnz)
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Posted on Sunday, November 10, 2013 - 7:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the banknotes react somehow with the meth? yes
And if yes:
Were the deadly materials a result of that reaction? yes! Were the banknotes damaged by the reaction? yes!

All that remains to establish, in order of importance: How did the chemical reaction to the meth occur (bearing in mind it was directly due to the notes' role in consuming the meth), and what was the resulting material?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Wednesday, November 13, 2013 - 11:38 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it relevant what chemical form of meth it was? Was it meth chlorofluoride? Did it react with reactive paint used to produce banknotes? Was the resulting material hydrochloric acid? sodium hydroxide solution?
Wizardofnz (Wizardofnz)
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Posted on Wednesday, November 13, 2013 - 9:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it relevant what chemical form of meth it was? I don't believe so - It's crystal meth as one would normally conceive of it Was it meth chlorofluoride? Did it react with reactive paint used to produce banknotes? no Was the resulting material hydrochloric acid? no, but it is a mineral acid sodium hydroxide solution? no
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Thursday, November 14, 2013 - 9:44 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the contact of the notes with meth enough to start the relevant reaction? Or did the reaction need something else? Did the reaction require specific conditions?
If the latter, were the notes wet? freshly-made? Was meth mixed with something?
Was the deadly material sulphuric acid?
Wizardofnz (Wizardofnz)
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Posted on Thursday, November 14, 2013 - 7:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the contact of the notes with meth enough to start the relevant reaction? no Or did the reaction need something else? yes Did the reaction require specific conditions? only really the two components mixing together
If the latter, were the notes wet? noish - very slightly damp, perhaps freshly-made? Was meth mixed with something? yes - inadvertently, during its consumption
Was the deadly material sulphuric acid? yes
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Thursday, November 14, 2013 - 8:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Two components: meth and cocaine? Meth and other substance that is not a drug?
Is 'Red, White, and Blue Process' of obtaining meth relevant?
Wizardofnz (Wizardofnz)
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Posted on Thursday, November 14, 2013 - 8:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Two components: meth and cocaine? no Meth and other substance that is not a drug? correct
Is 'Red, White, and Blue Process' of obtaining meth relevant? I googled 'Red, white and blue process', but am not prepared to prompt an investigation by clicking any of those links at work. Suffice it to say that this happens during the process of imbibing meth, which we have established is similar to the process of imbibing cocaine
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Thursday, November 14, 2013 - 8:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

In fact, I have no idea how the process of imbibing meth or cocaine looks like. Googling gave me numerous ways of taking these drugs so I'm still confused...
Is dissolving meth in water relevant? Is heating meth relevant?
Wizardofnz (Wizardofnz)
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Posted on Thursday, November 14, 2013 - 8:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

In fact, I have no idea how the process of imbibing meth or cocaine looks like. Googling gave me numerous ways of taking these drugs so I'm still confused... OK. Conventionally, one lines up the drug, rolls up a banknote, and uses it like a straw to sniff the powder up.
Is dissolving meth in water relevant? Is heating meth relevant? No to both - the component that mixes with meth to create sulfuric acid happens during the process of inhaling it
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Thursday, November 14, 2013 - 8:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the missing component contain sulfur? Does it come from banknotes? From air? Is it mixed with meth on purpose? If a straw was used to sniff the meth, would the relevant reaction occur? If yes, would sulphuric acid still be a product?
Wizardofnz (Wizardofnz)
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Posted on Thursday, November 14, 2013 - 8:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the missing component contain sulfur? *googles* Yes, in small quantities Does it come from banknotes? From air? neither Is it mixed with meth on purpose? no If a straw was used to sniff the meth, would the relevant reaction occur? yes, although the banknotes would be unaffected If yes, would sulphuric acid still be a product? yes, and it would destroy straws and make them unusable, instead of banknotes
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Friday, November 15, 2013 - 8:45 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

There is something I don't quite understand here...

Is the missing component mixed with meth before inhaling it? Is the component part of the surface on which the drug is lined up? Is the component part of whatever is used to form the line? Is the component part of package in which the meth is stored?
Does the relevant reaction happen:
1. when the meth is in the package?
2. as soon as the meth is taken out of the package?
3. in the moment when the meth is being lined up?
4. in the moment when the meth touches banknotes?
5. in the short while when the meth is inside the rolled banknote, between the surface and the inhaler's body?
6. as soon as the meth is inhaled into the user's body?

Does the meth transform its form as a result of reaction? But if yes, what are the people inhaling then?
Wizardofnz (Wizardofnz)
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Posted on Saturday, November 16, 2013 - 1:24 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

There is something I don't quite understand here...

Is the missing component mixed with meth before inhaling it? no - but it is introduced to the banknote as this stage Is the component part of the surface on which the drug is lined up? no Is the component part of whatever is used to form the line? no Is the component part of package in which the meth is stored? no
Does the relevant reaction happen:
1. when the meth is in the package?
2. as soon as the meth is taken out of the package?
3. in the moment when the meth is being lined up?
4. in the moment when the meth touches banknotes? this
5. in the short while when the meth is inside the rolled banknote, between the surface and the inhaler's body? and this
6. as soon as the meth is inhaled into the user's body? no to rest

Does the meth transform its form as a result of reaction? yes But if yes, what are the people inhaling then? meth - the residue on the banknotes is a different matter
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Saturday, November 16, 2013 - 1:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So, the missing component is not part of the banknotes, but is on them when the banknotes touch meth, right? Is it relevant where the banknotes were before? Is the relevant component on the fingers of person who uses meth and banknotes? If yes, would the reaction happen if the person touched the meth with bare fingers? And if yes again, is the missing component dust?
Wizardofnz (Wizardofnz)
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Posted on Sunday, November 17, 2013 - 8:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So, the missing component is not part of the banknotes, but is on them when the banknotes touch meth, right? correctIs it relevant where the banknotes were before? no Is the relevant component on the fingers of person who uses meth and banknotes? yes - you are achingly closeIf yes, would the reaction happen if the person touched the meth with bare fingers? yes And if yes again, is the missing component dust? no!
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Sunday, November 17, 2013 - 8:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the missing substance human skin itself?
Wizardofnz (Wizardofnz)
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Posted on Sunday, November 17, 2013 - 8:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the missing substance human skin itself? No, it's something commonly found on human skin, and the skin of many animals, too
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Sunday, November 17, 2013 - 8:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sweat? Tallow? Germs?
Wizardofnz (Wizardofnz)
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Posted on Sunday, November 17, 2013 - 8:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sweat? yes! Tallow? Germs?

***** SPOILER *****

(Lazy copy-paste from BBC News)

Users of the drug crystal methamphetamine may be causing euro banknotes to disintegrate, German police have told Der Spiegel magazine.
Sulphates used in the production of the drug could form sulphuric acid when mixed with human sweat, they say, causing banknotes to corrode.

Drug users sniff powdered crystals through rolled up banknotes.

About 1,500 banknotes have crumbled after being withdrawn from cash machines, German banking officials say.

Much of Germany's supply of crystal methamphetamine is believed to come from eastern Europe, and has a high concentration of sulphates.

Its corrosive effects are also spread between contaminated notes and clean notes in wallets and purses.

The Bundesbank announced in early November that reports of bank notes worth between five euros and 100 euros disintegrating began to be received in the summer.

A 2003 report by the Institute for Biomedical and Pharmaceutical Research in Nuremberg found that 90% of German euros were contaminated with cocaine.


Well done Redwine, and credit to Alexanderhamilton for some insightful questions.
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Sunday, November 17, 2013 - 8:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks Wiz :-) That was fun, and I also learned much about production and chemical properties of meth :-)
Wizardofnz (Wizardofnz)
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Posted on Sunday, November 17, 2013 - 8:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Admittedly not your field of law, but it may come in useful some day.

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