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Jondahr (Jondahr)
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Post Number: 109
Registered: 9-2013
Posted on Sunday, November 03, 2013 - 3:20 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Benjamin died. Several people, including some of his closest friends, watched him die and did nothing to prevent it.
Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
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Post Number: 84
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Posted on Sunday, November 03, 2013 - 3:23 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did they want Benjamin to die? Did Benjamin want to die? Did they kill Benjamin? Euthanasia relevant? Was Benjamin's life support unplugged in accordance with his wishes? Is Benjamin a criminal being executed?

Was it possible for them to save Benjamin? Legal? Ethical? Could trained doctors have saved Benjamin? If so, would it have been legal? Ethical?

Assuming his friends/the doctors could have saved Benjamin, would doing so have been harmful to them? Would they have caught a contagious and deadly disease that Benjamin died of? Would they have been arrested? Murdered? Killed legally by someone else (such as a law enforcement officer)?
Jondahr (Jondahr)
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Post Number: 111
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Posted on Sunday, November 03, 2013 - 3:58 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did they want Benjamin to die? no Did Benjamin want to die? no Did they kill Benjamin? no Euthanasia relevant? no Was Benjamin's life support unplugged in accordance with his wishes? no Is Benjamin a criminal being executed? no

Was it possible for them to save Benjamin? yes, or at least there is a chance it might have been Legal? yes Ethical? yes Could trained doctors have saved Benjamin? there is a good chance they could have - at least it would have been worth a try If so, would it have been legal? yes Ethical? yes

Assuming his friends/the doctors could have saved Benjamin, would doing so have been harmful to them? no Would they have caught a contagious and deadly disease that Benjamin died of? no Would they have been arrested? Murdered? Killed legally by someone else (such as a law enforcement officer)? no to all of these
Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
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Post Number: 86
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Posted on Sunday, November 03, 2013 - 4:10 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Benjamin's friends benefit in any way from him dying? Did the other bystanders? Did Benjamin have a heart attack? Was he murdered? Choked? Died of an exploding gut due to excessive flatulence? Stroke?
Balin (Balin)
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Post Number: 211
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Posted on Sunday, November 03, 2013 - 5:45 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

While watching them, did they know he was dying?
Jondahr (Jondahr)
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Post Number: 112
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Posted on Sunday, November 03, 2013 - 6:37 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Benjamin's friends benefit in any way from him dying? no Did the other bystanders? no Did Benjamin have a heart attack? yes Was he murdered? Choked? Died of an exploding gut due to excessive flatulence? Stroke?

While watching them, did they know he was dying? no! good question!
Doriana (Doriana)
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Post Number: 230
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Posted on Sunday, November 03, 2013 - 1:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

WAG: Was he an actor/singer/performer of some sort on stage, and the bystanders thought it was part of his show?
Kayleearafinwiel (Kayleearafinwiel)
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Post Number: 86
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Posted on Sunday, November 03, 2013 - 4:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

that isn't too much of a WAG...I've heard of at least one case of that, though I can't remember who it was. Either a comedian or a stage actor - or both - I think.
Biograd (Biograd)
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Posted on Monday, November 04, 2013 - 1:41 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were they watching him in person? or was it on TV? or some other way where they couldn't have intervened?
Jondahr (Jondahr)
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Post Number: 113
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Posted on Monday, November 04, 2013 - 5:47 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

WAG: Was he an actor/singer/performer of some sort on stage, and the bystanders thought it was part of his show? No, but very good thinking!!

that isn't too much of a WAG...I've heard of at least one case of that, though I can't remember who it was. Either a comedian or a stage actor - or both - I think. quite right - there are several stories amongst theatre workers about actors dying on stage and not being taken seriously. And of course, for maximum irony, Molière famously died on stage while playing the lead in "The imaginary invalid".

Were they watching him in person? yes or was it on TV? no or some other way where they couldn't have intervened? no, there was no physical barrier stopping them from intervening.
Kayleearafinwiel (Kayleearafinwiel)
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Post Number: 90
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Posted on Monday, November 04, 2013 - 5:57 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was it a case of "oh, someone else will call emergency services/do something" - I forget what it's called but the fact that someone in a life threatening situation is more likely to die with a crowd around because everyone thinks someone else will take responsibility, than if the threatened/dying person was alone with one other who would give aid/call for help?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Monday, November 04, 2013 - 12:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was Benjamin H? A? M? Did Benjamin have a relevant disability?
Were Benjamin's friends all adult? Did they have a relevant disability?
Did Benjamin play jokes on his friends, acting as if he was dying?
Jondahr (Jondahr)
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Post Number: 114
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Posted on Tuesday, November 05, 2013 - 11:46 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was it a case of "oh, someone else will call emergency services/do something" - I forget what it's called but the fact that someone in a life threatening situation is more likely to die with a crowd around because everyone thinks someone else will take responsibility, than if the threatened/dying person was alone with one other who would give aid/call for help? I believe you are referring to the Bystander Effect, which is truly fascinating (and a bit terrifying), but alas the wrong answer to this puzzle.


Was Benjamin H? A? M? yes Did Benjamin have a relevant disability? no
Were Benjamin's friends all adult? yes, but not really relevant Did they have a relevant disability? no
Did Benjamin play jokes on his friends, acting as if he was dying? no, but...
Redwine (Redwine)
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Post Number: 710
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Posted on Tuesday, November 05, 2013 - 2:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Benjamin's friends think he was joking? Did Benjamin tell them something that made them expect that his dying was not serious?
Kayleearafinwiel (Kayleearafinwiel)
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Post Number: 94
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Posted on Tuesday, November 05, 2013 - 4:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

oh yes, that's it - the Bystander Effect. I felt it most keenly when I visited my friend's Pentecostal church once; they viewed the 'seizures' their congregation was having as a good thing and a gift from God, so I was frightened by the thought that if I had a very real seizure, they might not do anything to help me. That alone was enough to frighten and stress me into having an aura - a "pre-seizure" that also counts as a seizure in its own way - and I begged Tina to take me home early
Jondahr (Jondahr)
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Post Number: 120
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Posted on Tuesday, November 05, 2013 - 7:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Benjamin's friends think he was joking? no, not joking.... Did Benjamin tell them something that made them expect that his dying was not serious? noish or yope
Redwine (Redwine)
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Post Number: 727
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Posted on Tuesday, November 05, 2013 - 9:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was Benjamin demonstrating first aid techniques? Did his friends expect him to behave as if he was suffering heart attack?
Jondahr (Jondahr)
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Post Number: 126
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Posted on Tuesday, November 05, 2013 - 10:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was Benjamin demonstrating first aid techniques? no Did his friends expect him to behave as if he was suffering heart attack? not necessarily, but they weren't too surprised that he did
Redwine (Redwine)
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Post Number: 748
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Posted on Wednesday, November 06, 2013 - 11:37 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Benjamin's friends think he was just trying to get their attention? Did he threaten them that he will commit suicide?
Did he lie to them about his health? If yes, did he described it worse than it was? Better than it was?
Did Benjamin tell them that he can easily manage with heart attacks by himself? Did they have a conversation concerning heart attacks?
Could this situation happen if Benjamin died for another sudden, natural death?
Jondahr (Jondahr)
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Post Number: 129
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Posted on Wednesday, November 06, 2013 - 11:48 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Benjamin's friends think he was just trying to get their attention? He already had their full attention before the heart attack struck Did he threaten them that he will commit suicide? no

Did he lie to them about his health? noIf yes, did he described it worse than it was? Better than it was?
Did Benjamin tell them that he can easily manage with heart attacks by himself? Did they have a conversation concerning heart attacks? no conversation of heart attacks or anything like that had taken place

Could this situation happen if Benjamin died for another sudden, natural death? absolutely, as long as it caused a couple of important things to happen
Redwine (Redwine)
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Post Number: 750
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Posted on Wednesday, November 06, 2013 - 12:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did it happen indoors? Outdoors? Relevant?
Did Benjamin's friends see him from distance and cannot recognize heart attack? Did he had an attack while bungee jumping?
Jondahr (Jondahr)
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Post Number: 130
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Posted on Wednesday, November 06, 2013 - 2:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did it happen indoors? this Outdoors? Relevant? not directly, but it might help you get the setting.
Did Benjamin's friends see him from distance and cannot recognize heart attack? they were not that far away, and they could probably recognise a heart attack most of the time, but in this case they didn't recognise it as that Did he had an attack while bungee jumping? no, but good idea!
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Wednesday, November 06, 2013 - 9:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was it in Benjamin's house? Was it a celebration? In his workplace?
Was Benjamin speaking when it happened? Did his friends take heart attack for another medical condition? Did they think Benjamin was all right?
Jondahr (Jondahr)
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Post Number: 133
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Posted on Thursday, November 07, 2013 - 9:08 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was it in Benjamin's house? this, or it might have been the house of any of the other people present Was it a celebration?could be, but mostly irr. In his workplace?
Was Benjamin speaking when it happened? no, and that is important! Did his friends take heart attack for another medical condition? no Did they think Benjamin was all right? yes, they didn't suspect anything was wrong
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Thursday, November 07, 2013 - 10:35 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Benjamin's friends think he fell asleep? Get drunk?
Jondahr (Jondahr)
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Post Number: 135
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Posted on Thursday, November 07, 2013 - 10:39 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Benjamin's friends think he fell asleep? Get drunk?
no to both
Redwine (Redwine)
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Post Number: 786
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Posted on Thursday, November 07, 2013 - 10:45 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were they playing a game, in which what happened to Benjamin due to heart attack seemed obvious?
Should we determine what were symptoms of Benjamin's heart attack?
Jondahr (Jondahr)
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Post Number: 139
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Posted on Thursday, November 07, 2013 - 1:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were they playing a game, in which what happened to Benjamin due to heart attack seemed obvious? YES! Well, Maybe not obvious, but definitely not out of place

Should we determine what were symptoms of Benjamin's heart attack? could be helpful, but I think you're almost there anyway now
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Thursday, November 07, 2013 - 1:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was it the game when one have to show given words or phrases to the others, cannot speak and the others have to guess these words or phrases (sorry for a bit long description, I don't know the name of the game)?
Jondahr (Jondahr)
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Post Number: 141
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Posted on Thursday, November 07, 2013 - 1:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was it the game when one have to show given words or phrases to the others, cannot speak and the others have to guess these words or phrases (sorry for a bit long description, I don't know the name of the game)?
Yes!! Well done!

And that, I believe, is the....


*****SPOILER*****

Benjamin and his friends were playing a game of charades, when pole Benjamin suddenly suffered a fatal heart attack. Unable to speak properly, he grabbed his chest and waved his arms and fell twitching to the floor, all while his friends eagerly cried out guesses to what he was portraying.

Thanks for playing all, and a special congrats to Redwine for single-handedly hunting the answer down in the end!
Jondahr (Jondahr)
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Post Number: 142
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Posted on Thursday, November 07, 2013 - 1:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

*poor Benjamin, of course, not pole.

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