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Psydkik (Psydkik)
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Post Number: 535
Registered: 9-2013
Posted on Thursday, November 07, 2013 - 11:08 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Harry created a sign.

Some people looked at the sign, and thought it was helpful.

Other people looked at the sign, and pissed themselves laughing.

Harry was convinced everyone should find it helpful, so why the different reactions and how did Harry inadvertently create the amusement?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Post Number: 789
Registered: 10-2013
Posted on Thursday, November 07, 2013 - 11:20 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is there a relevant distinction between "some people" and "other people", other than their reaction to the sign?
Did Harry display the sign somewhere? If he had displayed it in other place, would the reactions still be the same?
Was it a logo? A roadsign? Was the purpose of the sign informative? Advertising?
Balin (Balin)
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Post Number: 255
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Posted on Thursday, November 07, 2013 - 1:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Emailed.
Jondahr (Jondahr)
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Post Number: 140
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Posted on Thursday, November 07, 2013 - 1:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is a typo or lost-in-translation problems relevant?
Psydkik (Psydkik)
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Post Number: 538
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Posted on Thursday, November 07, 2013 - 1:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Balin:

Emailed. And correct, well done :-)


Redwine:

Is there a relevant distinction between "some people" and "other people", other than their reaction to the sign? Yes

Did Harry display the sign somewhere? Yes
If he had displayed it in other place, would the reactions still be the same? Well... the 'some' people wouldn't find it so helpful, the 'other' people would still find it hilarious, and the ratio of 'some':'other' people might be different depending on the different location.

Was it a logo? No
A roadsign? Yes
Was the purpose of the sign informative? Yope
Advertising? No


Jondahr:

Is a typo or lost-in-translation problems relevant? Yes
Redwine (Redwine)
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Username: Redwine

Post Number: 793
Registered: 10-2013
Posted on Thursday, November 07, 2013 - 1:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the sign inform about a potential danger? About road works?
Was it displayed at the side of the road? In urban area? In rural area? On the highway? On a building?
Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
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Username: Gregoryuconn

Post Number: 104
Registered: 10-2013
Posted on Thursday, November 07, 2013 - 3:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the sign in two different languages? And the translation was correct and helpful on one but ridiculous on another?
Psydkik (Psydkik)
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Post Number: 542
Registered: 9-2013
Posted on Thursday, November 07, 2013 - 5:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Redwine:

Did the sign inform about a potential danger? No
About road works? No

Was it displayed at the side of the road? Yes
In urban area? In rural area? On the edge of a residential area
On the highway? Yes
No On a building?


Gregoryuconn:

Was the sign in two different languages? Yes
And the translation was correct and helpful on one but ridiculous on another? Yes


****Checkpoint*****

Harry created a sign in two languages.

Some people looked at the sign, read one language, and thought it was helpful.

Other people looked at the sign, read the other language, and pissed themselves laughing.

Harry was convinced everyone should find it helpful because he only spoke the first language, so the different reactions were encountered by the people who spoke the second language.

Still to discover:
How did Harry inadvertently create the amusement in the second language?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Username: Redwine

Post Number: 801
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Posted on Thursday, November 07, 2013 - 5:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the sign inform about distance to a place? About direction to a place? Did it include a proper name of a location? Did it just say: "Highway"?

Was the sign written in: English? French? Spanish? German?
Wizardofnz (Wizardofnz)
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Posted on Thursday, November 07, 2013 - 8:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was it written in Welsh?
Psydkik (Psydkik)
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Post Number: 543
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Posted on Thursday, November 07, 2013 - 8:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Redwine:

Did the sign inform about distance to a place? No
About direction to a place? No
Did it include a proper name of a location? No
Did it just say: "Highway"? No

Was the sign written in: English? Half in English...
French? No
Spanish? No
German? No


Wizardofnz:

Was it written in Welsh? ...half in Welsh
Wizardofnz (Wizardofnz)
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Post Number: 882
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Posted on Thursday, November 07, 2013 - 8:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Bowing out, then, as I am familiar with this amusing story.
Psydkik (Psydkik)
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Post Number: 547
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Posted on Thursday, November 07, 2013 - 9:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Wizardofnz:

Bowing out, then, as I am familiar with this amusing story.

I'm impressed it's been reported as far away as USA and NZ, such that you and Balin had both heard of it already! :-)
Doriana (Doriana)
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Post Number: 267
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Posted on Thursday, November 07, 2013 - 11:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I've heard of it too =)
Psydkik (Psydkik)
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Post Number: 548
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Posted on Thursday, November 07, 2013 - 11:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Gracious me, I thought I'd be safe with this one since so few of you are from the UK! :-/
Yojimbo (Yojimbo)
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Post Number: 514
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Posted on Friday, November 08, 2013 - 1:18 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yep -- I know this one, too -- we used it as practice for pronouncing Welsh in a Dylan Thomas play. Plus, we "pissed ourselves laughing."
Redwine (Redwine)
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Post Number: 818
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Posted on Friday, November 08, 2013 - 9:25 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I don't know the story and I don't know a word in Welsh...

Did those who find the sign helpful speak English? Welsh? Was the sign placed at the beginning of the residential area (on the way to it)? At the end of the residential area (on the way from it)?
Psydkik (Psydkik)
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Post Number: 550
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Posted on Friday, November 08, 2013 - 3:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Redwine:

I don't know the story and I don't know a word in Welsh... No Welsh knowledge needed :-) Glad there's someone still left who's not seen it already!

Did those who find the sign helpful speak English? Yes Welsh? No

Was the sign placed at the beginning of the residential area (on the way to it)? Yes
At the end of the residential area (on the way from it)? No
To save you the impossible task of guessing exactly what it said, I shall tell you that the English half of the sign said "No entry for heavy goods vehicles. Residential site only."
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Username: Peter365

Post Number: 162
Registered: 1-2011
Posted on Monday, November 11, 2013 - 8:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Psydkik

I accidently moved this puzzle to the 'Recently Solved' section. Apologies.
Redwine (Redwine)
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Post Number: 839
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Posted on Tuesday, November 12, 2013 - 11:45 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did any of the English words have relevant different meaning in Welsh? Was the translation to Welsh exact? Was it proper?
Did those who burst out laughing speak English? Welsh? Did they find English part funny? Welsh part funny?
Psydkik (Psydkik)
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Post Number: 552
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Posted on Thursday, November 14, 2013 - 12:53 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Redwine:

Did any of the English words have relevant different meaning in Welsh? None of them
Was the translation to Welsh exact? Completely not
Was it proper? It was completely wrong

Did those who burst out laughing speak English? Probably but irrelevant
Welsh? Yes

Did they find English part funny? No
Welsh part funny? Hilarious
Redwine (Redwine)
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Post Number: 895
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Posted on Thursday, November 14, 2013 - 9:14 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he make Welsh "translation" by altering the English words in a way he thought is written/spoken in Wales?
Psydkik (Psydkik)
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Post Number: 553
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Posted on Thursday, November 14, 2013 - 10:17 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Redwine:

Did he make Welsh "translation" by altering the English words in a way he thought is written/spoken in Wales? No - verging on an important FA
Redwine (Redwine)
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Post Number: 907
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Posted on Thursday, November 14, 2013 - 10:51 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he make Welsh "translation"? Did he pay someone to make Welsh "translation"? Was the Welsh part intended to be a translation of the English part? Was the intended meaning of both parts the same?
Are stereotypes relevant?
Psydkik (Psydkik)
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Post Number: 554
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Posted on Thursday, November 14, 2013 - 11:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Redwine:

Did he make Welsh "translation"? No

Did he pay someone to make Welsh "translation"? Yes - well, irrelevant whether payment was involved, but yes, he asked someone else to make the translation.

Was the Welsh part intended to be a translation of the English part? Yes, that's what Harry asked for

Was the intended meaning of both parts the same? Yes, that's what Harry asked for

Are stereotypes relevant? No - although this was English and Welsh it could just have easily have been any two languages
Redwine (Redwine)
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Post Number: 945
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Posted on Friday, November 15, 2013 - 8:26 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the person who make the translation understand English? Did that person understand his/her task correctly?
Did Harry use automatic translator?
Psydkik (Psydkik)
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Post Number: 563
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Posted on Friday, November 15, 2013 - 10:03 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Redwine:

Did the person who make the translation understand English? Yes
Did that person understand his/her task correctly? Yope
Did Harry use automatic translator? Yope

Bit Yopey... to deal with the Yopes, you need to find out about how Harry tried to get the translation done.
Redwine (Redwine)
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Post Number: 956
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Posted on Friday, November 15, 2013 - 11:43 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he ask a living person to do the translation? Whole of it? Did this person know Welsh? Did this person use the automatic translator? Was that person a professional in translations?
Did that person understand that he/she should translate the content of the sign into Welsh? or maybe that he/she should translate "the sign" into Welsh?
Psydkik (Psydkik)
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Post Number: 566
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Posted on Friday, November 15, 2013 - 12:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Gregoryuconn via e-mail:

Answer received
Answer correct
Well done - Redwine you're running out of allies to help you solve this one, sorry!


Redwine:

Did he ask a living person to do the translation? Yes
Whole of it? Yes
Did this person know Welsh? Yes
Did this person use the automatic translator? No - there was no automatic translator involved, but there was some automation involved
Was that person a professional in translations? Yes
Did that person understand that he/she should translate the content of the sign into Welsh? Yes but you'll almost certainly have an FA in here somewhere
or maybe that he/she should translate "the sign" into Welsh? No
Redwine (Redwine)
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Post Number: 963
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Posted on Friday, November 15, 2013 - 1:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the man understand what the translator returned to him? Did he copy/paste wrong part of what he was given by the translator? Is autocorrection involved?
Psydkik (Psydkik)
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Post Number: 569
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Posted on Friday, November 15, 2013 - 2:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Redwine:

Did the man understand what the translator returned to him? Harry did not understand what the translator returned to him because it was in Welsh and he doesn't speak Welsh

Did he copy/paste wrong part of what he was given by the translator? He sent one single line of English text to be translated. He received back one single line of Welsh text, which he accurately copied and pasted without any copying errors.

Is autocorrection involved? No
Redwine (Redwine)
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Post Number: 966
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Posted on Friday, November 15, 2013 - 2:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So...
Harry created an English sign - no errors so far?
Harry sent the text of English sign to the translator - no errors so far?
Translator sent Harry back the text for Welsh sign - no errors so far?
Harry accurately copied and pasted what was sent to him - still no errors?
Is production of the sign relevant?
Did Translator do the translation properly? Was the text altered automatically while sending/resending?
Psydkik (Psydkik)
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Post Number: 570
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Posted on Friday, November 15, 2013 - 2:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Redwine:

Harry only created one sign - the single sign had both English and Welsh text on it. He had already written the English text and was in need of the Welsh translation text to put under it. So let me slightly reword yours accordingly:

Harry created the English text for the sign - no errors so far? Correct

Harry sent the English text of the sign to the translator - no errors so far? Correct

Translator sent Harry back the Welsh text for the sign - no errors so far? Correct but underlying FA

Harry accurately copied and pasted what was sent to him - still no errors? Correct

Is production of the sign relevant? No

Did Translator do the translation properly? No due to underlying FA above

Was the text altered automatically while sending/resending? OTRT
Redwine (Redwine)
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Post Number: 969
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Posted on Friday, November 15, 2013 - 2:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the text sent via e-mail? Both times?
Did the Translator translate what Harry wanted him to translate? Or some other stuff that sometimes appears in e-mails?
Was something added to the English text Harry sent? Was something added to the Welsh text Translator sent?
Was the Translator aware that it was the text for the road sign?
If Harry had sent the text in the separate document attached to the e-mail, would the error still have occured?
Psydkik (Psydkik)
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Posted on Friday, November 15, 2013 - 6:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Redwine:

Was the text sent via e-mail? Yes; had it not been by e-mail, the problem would never have happened Both times? Both to and from the Translator, yes

Did the Translator translate No
what Harry wanted him to translate? No
Or some other stuff that sometimes appears in e-mails? No

Was something added to the English text Harry sent? No
Was something added to the Welsh text Translator sent? Not exactly 'added', no

Was the Translator aware that it was the text for the road sign? No. The Translator was not at all aware. He was distinctly less aware than you yet realise.

If Harry had sent the text in the separate document attached to the e-mail, would the error still have occured? Yes - the error would have been identical
Kayleearafinwiel (Kayleearafinwiel)
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Posted on Friday, November 15, 2013 - 6:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was the Translator out of the office, and therefore he didn't get the email?
Psydkik (Psydkik)
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Post Number: 573
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Posted on Saturday, November 16, 2013 - 12:25 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Redwine:

was the Translator out of the office, and therefore he didn't get the email? Yes, you're now tantalisingly close...
Kayleearafinwiel (Kayleearafinwiel)
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Posted on Saturday, November 16, 2013 - 1:25 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the Translator have his email set on an automatic reply? With something like "out of office, will be back (on this date)" but because it was in Welsh, the English speakers didn't know that's what it said?
Psydkik (Psydkik)
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Posted on Saturday, November 16, 2013 - 8:52 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Kayleearafinwiel:

Did the Translator have his email set on an automatic reply? Yes
With something like "out of office, will be back (on this date)" but because it was in Welsh, the English speakers didn't know that's what it said? Yes


***************Spoiler***************

A true story (though the people weren't called Harry or Jim):

Harry was working for Swansea council (Swansea is one of the largest cities in Wales, UK).
His job was to design and create road signs to be put up around Swansea's roads.

Harry needed to make a sign to help ensure that lorries didn't drive down a small windy local road. He decided upon the text:

"No entry for heavy goods vehicles. Residential site only."

In all of Wales, despite the fact that 99.99% of Welsh people speak English fluently, they still hang on to their roots, and all road signs are bilingual, being marked in both English and Welsh.

So Harry, having written the English part, needed the Welsh translation. So he sent off an e-mail to Jim, who worked in their in-house Welsh/English translation service.

Jim replied very quickly:

"Nid wyf yn y swyddfa ar hyn o bryd. Anfonwch unrhyw waith i'w gyfieithu."

So Harry copied that text on to the sign, sent it off for manufacture, and it was duly installed on the relevant road.

People who only spoke English (including Harry and presumably whoever manufactured the sign itself) read the English words, ignored the incomprehensible Welsh, and thought it a useful sign.

But people who also spoke Welsh, also read the Welsh words, which translated as:

"I am not in the office at the moment. Send any work to be translated."

And naturally, they pissed themselves laughing, as did Jim when he came back from holiday and saw it.

And, so it turns out, did most of the LTPF forum when this news story went around the world rather more than I'd realised! Good job Redwine was here to keep the puzzle moving along, and well done to Kaylee for arrving at the solution :-)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/7702913.stm
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Saturday, November 16, 2013 - 11:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Awesome puzzle! More funny news stories please...

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