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Redwine (Redwine)
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Username: Redwine

Post Number: 1330
Registered: 10-2013
Posted on Wednesday, December 18, 2013 - 9:41 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Lionel got stuck in the lift. Ten minutes later and also in next few days, dozens of people lost their jobs.
Lynne (Lynne)
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Username: Lynne

Post Number: 5700
Registered: 12-2000
Posted on Wednesday, December 18, 2013 - 12:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were those people responsible for the smooth running of the lift, perhaps in Lionel's location and elsewhere if there was a basic design fault with the lift?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Username: Redwine

Post Number: 1331
Registered: 10-2013
Posted on Wednesday, December 18, 2013 - 12:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Lynne:
Were those people responsible for the smooth running of the lift, perhaps in Lionel's location and elsewhere if there was a basic design fault with the lift? No.
Lynne (Lynne)
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Username: Lynne

Post Number: 5702
Registered: 12-2000
Posted on Wednesday, December 18, 2013 - 12:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was Lionel personally responsible for their jobs and his being late meant they missed a deadline or similar which meant they lost the contract which meant they lost their job?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Username: Peter365

Post Number: 5114
Registered: 1-2007
Posted on Wednesday, December 18, 2013 - 1:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were the people sacked? or made redundent? Did Lionel lose his job?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Username: Lynne

Post Number: 5711
Registered: 12-2000
Posted on Wednesday, December 18, 2013 - 2:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was it Lionel's own fault that he got stuck? He did something silly with the buttons and as a result he was deemed incompetent to do his job, and his whole team went down with him?

Or is this based on a joke and/or wordplay?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Username: Redwine

Post Number: 1332
Registered: 10-2013
Posted on Wednesday, December 18, 2013 - 3:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Lynne:
Was Lionel personally responsible for their jobs and his being late meant they missed a deadline or similar which meant they lost the contract which meant they lost their job? No.

Peter365:
Were the people sacked? or made redundent? Neither, in fact. Sacked is closer than made redundant. Did Lionel lose his job? No.

Lynne:
Was it Lionel's own fault that he got stuck? Assume no. He did something silly with the buttons and as a result he was deemed incompetent to do his job, and his whole team went down with him? No.

Or is this based on a joke and/or wordplay? No, this is a true story I read about recently, that happened in Poland in 1993. Exact date and location are not relevant, though.
Sleepingbeaver (Sleepingbeaver)
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Username: Sleepingbeaver

Post Number: 198
Registered: 5-2007
Posted on Thursday, December 19, 2013 - 6:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the people quit deliberately? Did the company go bankrupt? Is the reason why Lionel got stuck in the elevator relevant? Maybe someone cut off the power for bills not being paid?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Username: Redwine

Post Number: 1345
Registered: 10-2013
Posted on Friday, December 20, 2013 - 8:52 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sleepingbeaver:
Did the people quit deliberately? No. Did the company go bankrupt? No, FA. Is the reason why Lionel got stuck in the elevator relevant? No. Maybe someone cut off the power for bills not being paid? No, and I think this would be almost impossible.
Sleepingbeaver (Sleepingbeaver)
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Username: Sleepingbeaver

Post Number: 200
Registered: 5-2007
Posted on Saturday, December 21, 2013 - 10:43 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Oh nobody had asked: Do they lose their "jobs" as in "employments to earn money"?

Were the people who lost their jobs employed in different companies? Were they self-employed? Were they somehow Lionel's customers?

Did the people lose their jobs because Lionel was a few minutes late for something? Would they have lost their jobs if Lionel had been late for other reasons?

Is the stock market relevant? Is Lionel a stockbroker?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Username: Redwine

Post Number: 1347
Registered: 10-2013
Posted on Sunday, December 22, 2013 - 1:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sleepingbeaver:
Oh nobody had asked: Do they lose their "jobs" as in "employments to earn money"? Yope to yesish. They definitely earned money in that job.

Were the people who lost their jobs employed in different companies? No. Were they self-employed? No. Were they somehow Lionel's customers? Noish.

Did the people lose their jobs because Lionel was a few minutes late for something? Yes. Would they have lost their jobs if Lionel had been late for other reasons? Yes.

Is the stock market relevant? No. Is Lionel a stockbroker? No.
Sleepingbeaver (Sleepingbeaver)
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Username: Sleepingbeaver

Post Number: 202
Registered: 5-2007
Posted on Sunday, December 22, 2013 - 1:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were the "jobs" illegal activities?
Were the people who lost the jobs defendants in a criminal case? Did Lionel arrive late to a court hearing? Was he a lawyer? A witness? Another defendant?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Username: Redwine

Post Number: 1348
Registered: 10-2013
Posted on Monday, December 23, 2013 - 7:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sleepingbeaver:
Were the "jobs" illegal activities? No.
Were the people who lost the jobs defendants in a criminal case? No. Did Lionel arrive late to a court hearing? No. Was he a lawyer? He could have been, but irrelevant. A witness? No. Another defendant? No.
Irishelk (Irishelk)
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Username: Irishelk

Post Number: 97
Registered: 10-2013
Posted on Saturday, December 28, 2013 - 4:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is Lionel's job involved at all?

Did everyone who lost their job lose the same job? Different jobs in the same field?
Could the jobs also be described as professions? Hobbies? Expertises? Skills? Do many people do this as a primary means of income? Internet involved?

Was Lionel a customer of these people? Or did he use their products/services in some way?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Username: Redwine

Post Number: 1356
Registered: 10-2013
Posted on Thursday, January 02, 2014 - 9:21 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Irishelk:
Is Lionel's job involved at all? Yes.

Did everyone who lost their job lose the same job? Yope. Different jobs in the same field? Yope, OTRT.
Could the jobs also be described as professions? DOYD of "Profession". Hobbies? Definitely not. Expertises? Noish. Skills? No. Do many people do this as a primary means of income? It depends. For those, who lost their jobs immediately, no. For those, who lost their jobs in the next few days, quite many people do this as a primary means of income. Internet involved? No.

Was Lionel a customer of these people? No. Or did he use their products/services in some way? Yes.

These all questions were very hard to answer, you may want to explore these bits further and/or rephrasing some of the questions.
Abc (Abc)
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Username: Abc

Post Number: 480
Registered: 7-2006
Posted on Friday, January 03, 2014 - 6:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are the lost jobs legal (as opposed to illegal, such as mugger, counterfeiter etc)?
Are the people employees of a company?
Is the type of work relevant?
Manual labor?
Office work?
Do they work for a private enterprise?
Is it government work?
Do you think it is likely that one or some of us in the forum might have that kind of job?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Username: Redwine

Post Number: 1359
Registered: 10-2013
Posted on Tuesday, January 07, 2014 - 9:04 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Abc:
Are the lost jobs legal (as opposed to illegal, such as mugger, counterfeiter etc)? Yes, these are legal jobs.
Are the people employees of a company? No.
Is the type of work relevant? Yes.
Manual labor?
Office work? This.
Do they work for a private enterprise? No.
Is it government work? YES, well done.
Do you think it is likely that one or some of us in the forum might have that kind of job? Most probably not the job that would have been lost immediately, but maybe the one that would have been lost within few days. But I am not sure.
Abc (Abc)
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Username: Abc

Post Number: 493
Registered: 7-2006
Posted on Tuesday, January 07, 2014 - 10:46 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Relevant which branch of government?
Education?
Social services?
Military?
Political?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Username: Redwine

Post Number: 1363
Registered: 10-2013
Posted on Tuesday, January 07, 2014 - 11:04 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Abc:
Relevant which branch of government? Yes...
Education? Yes.
Social services? Yes.
Military? Yes.
Political? Yes.
Abc (Abc)
Moderator
Username: Abc

Post Number: 494
Registered: 7-2006
Posted on Tuesday, January 07, 2014 - 11:28 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the whole government have to go?
But one person in particular?
Are international matters relevant?
Is there a war?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Username: Redwine

Post Number: 1364
Registered: 10-2013
Posted on Tuesday, January 07, 2014 - 12:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Abc:
Did the whole government have to go? Yes, well done.
But one person in particular? No, just whole government.
Are international matters relevant? No.
Is there a war? No.
Abc (Abc)
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Username: Abc

Post Number: 496
Registered: 7-2006
Posted on Tuesday, January 07, 2014 - 12:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it the US government?
If not, I invoke the LTPF list of countries, to see if that is accepted.
Is this a real historical event?
Watergate relevant?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Username: Redwine

Post Number: 1365
Registered: 10-2013
Posted on Tuesday, January 07, 2014 - 1:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Abc:
Is it the US government? No, it's not.
If not, I invoke the LTPF list of countries, to see if that is accepted. It's based on the events that happened in Poland in 1993, but I don't think that's really relevant. It could happen in many democratic countries.
Is this a real historical event? It is based on real historical event.
Watergate relevant? No.
Abc (Abc)
Moderator
Username: Abc

Post Number: 498
Registered: 7-2006
Posted on Tuesday, January 07, 2014 - 3:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the government defeated in an election?
Or did it lose its power in a more extraordinary fashion?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Username: Redwine

Post Number: 1369
Registered: 10-2013
Posted on Tuesday, January 07, 2014 - 3:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Abc:
Was the government defeated in an election? If you mean citizens voting, then no. If you mean just voting, then yes.
Or did it lose its power in a more extraordinary fashion? The government lost its power in a legal procedure. I would not call it extraordinary.
Abc (Abc)
Moderator
Username: Abc

Post Number: 500
Registered: 7-2006
Posted on Tuesday, January 07, 2014 - 8:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were they voted out of office by other politicians?
Was the vote carried out during Lionel's 10-minute delay in the elevator?
Ostap (Ostap)
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Username: Ostap

Post Number: 130
Registered: 6-2005
Posted on Tuesday, January 07, 2014 - 8:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the government voted out by the parliament? Did the government lose a vote on a confidence motion? Because one of the members of the ruling party got stuck in the lift?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Username: Redwine

Post Number: 1370
Registered: 10-2013
Posted on Wednesday, January 08, 2014 - 8:28 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Abc:
Were they voted out of office by other politicians? Yes.
Was the vote carried out during Lionel's 10-minute delay in the elevator? Yes.

Ostap:
Was the government voted out by the parliament? Yes. Did the government lose a vote on a confidence motion? Yes. Because one of the members of the ruling party got stuck in the lift? And YES.

And that's exactly the
************SPOILER****************
In 1993, Polish government lost the voting on a confidence motion, with the difference of one vote. That was because Lionel, the member of the ruling party, was stuck in the lift during the voting.


Thanks for playing, and congrats to Abc and Ostap for (synchronized) solving the puzzle.

And to tell the story accordingly to historical truth, I have to add that having voted the government out of office, the Parliament did not appoint the new Prime Minister. That, according to the Constitution, gave the President the opportunity to disband the Parliament, what he did. As a result, the government stayed in office until the new Parliament was elected.

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