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Wizardofnz (Wizardofnz)
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Post Number: 1347
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Posted on Monday, January 13, 2014 - 12:23 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Abby lies dead in a swimming pool next to a piece of string and a brick. How did she die?
Solo1 (Solo1)
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Post Number: 284
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Posted on Monday, January 13, 2014 - 1:34 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is Abby a HAF/HAM? (Name might be Abbot. You never know.)String: ordinary piece of twine, not, say, string cheese? Brick = ordinary house brick? Pool = Olympic size swimming pool? kiddie pool? back-yard size pool? other? any? all?
Wizardofnz (Wizardofnz)
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Post Number: 1348
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Posted on Monday, January 13, 2014 - 1:40 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is Abby a HAF/HAM? no to both (Name might be Abbot. You never know.)String: ordinary piece of twine, not, say, string cheese? correct Brick = ordinary house brick? correct Pool = Olympic size swimming pool? kiddie pool? back-yard size pool? thisother? any? all?
Solo1 (Solo1)
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Post Number: 285
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Posted on Monday, January 13, 2014 - 2:18 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Oh-ho. So Abby is a mammal? bird? reptile? insect? other? non-human entity? fictional character? ghost? mythical creature?
Are the brick and/or the string in the pool or lying alongside of it?
Wizardofnz (Wizardofnz)
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Post Number: 1349
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Posted on Monday, January 13, 2014 - 2:44 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Oh-ho. So Abby is a mammal? yes bird? reptile? insect? other? non-human entity? no fictional character? ghost? She is now, arguably mythical creature?
Are the brick and/or the string in the pool or lying alongside of it? either is possible; the former is more likely
Solo1 (Solo1)
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Post Number: 288
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Posted on Monday, January 13, 2014 - 3:26 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Making progress - we've got a dead mammal! Aquatic mammal? land mammal? domestic? wild?
Is Abby in the pool because of the brick and string? dead because of them?
Wizardofnz (Wizardofnz)
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Post Number: 1350
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Posted on Monday, January 13, 2014 - 3:36 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Making progress - we've got a dead mammal! Yes Aquatic mammal? land mammal? yes domestic? yes wild?
Is Abby in the pool because of the brick and string? yes dead because of them? yes
Ostap (Ostap)
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Post Number: 133
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Posted on Monday, January 13, 2014 - 8:44 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is there water in the pool? Was there water when Abby died? Did Abby die in the pool? Was Abby able to swim? Is Abby a cat? Is Abby female? Relevant?
Is the string connected to the brick? Was it at any time? Did someone throw the brick at Abby?
Are any other humans or animals relevant?
Wizardofnz (Wizardofnz)
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Posted on Monday, January 13, 2014 - 8:49 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is there water in the pool? yes Was there water when Abby died? yes Did Abby die in the pool? yes Was Abby able to swim? irrel Is Abby a cat? no Is Abby female? yes Relevant? no
Is the string connected to the brick? yes Was it at any time? yes Did someone throw the brick at Abby? no
Are any other humans or animals relevant? no
Lynne (Lynne)
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Post Number: 5738
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Posted on Monday, January 13, 2014 - 9:07 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is Abby a dog? The family dog? Was she playing before she died?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Monday, January 13, 2014 - 10:46 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Abby die from: drowning? Strangulation? Impact? Impact from the brick? Blood loss? Is the string attached to anything apart from the brick? Is it attached to Abby? Is Abby: floating on the surface? Floating underwater? Lying on the bottom? Is Abby attached to the brick?
Is Abbys death intentional? Accidental? Is some sort of trap involved?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Monday, January 13, 2014 - 11:59 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Has a crime been committed? Is this a normal swimming pool (other than the dead mammal)? Or is it one of those pools that opens to the sea and is therefore tidal? Was Abby washed into the pool (our cat's name is Abby so I was relieved to learn that this abby is not feline)
Abc (Abc)
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Posted on Monday, January 13, 2014 - 7:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is Abby HCM/HCF?
Wizardofnz (Wizardofnz)
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Posted on Monday, January 13, 2014 - 9:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Lynne:

Is Abby a dog? no The family dog? no Was she playing before she died? no (answer is independent of previous two answers)

Galfisk:

Did Abby die from: drowning? this Strangulation? Impact? although this was a contributing factor Impact from the brick? Blood loss? no to the rest Is the string attached to anything apart from the brick? currently, no Is it attached to Abby? currently, no Is Abby: floating on the surface? Floating underwater? Lying on the bottom? yes Is Abby attached to the brick? no
Is Abbys death intentional? no Accidental? yes Is some sort of trap involved? no

Peter365:

Has a crime been committed? no Is this a normal swimming pool (other than the dead mammal)? yes Or is it one of those pools that opens to the sea and is therefore tidal? no Was Abby washed into the pool (our cat's name is Abby so I was relieved to learn that this abby is not feline) no

Abc:

Is Abby HCM/HCF? HCF. Darn, I was enjoying riding that wave of confusion
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Monday, January 13, 2014 - 10:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So she's a human female child. Was she on her own when she died? Was it her fault, i.e something she did, although presumably not deliberately to drown herself. Did another human contribute to her accident? Or an animal? Or just incredible bad luck?
Wizardofnz (Wizardofnz)
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Posted on Monday, January 13, 2014 - 10:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So she's a human female child. Was she on her own when she died? Nobody else is relevantly involved; and it's fair to say she was unsupervised Was it her fault, i.e something she did, although presumably not deliberately to drown herself. yes Did another human contribute to her accident? no Or an animal? no Or just incredible bad luck? not purely
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Monday, January 13, 2014 - 10:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is she a toddler? Pre-teen? Teenager? Does her age play a part in this?
Was she trying to learn to collect things from the bottom of the pool? Like you do when you learn life-saving?
Did she use the brick to make herself heavier and therefore when she was in a competitive situation she'd be lighter but stronger? (Like wearing heavy football boots in practice)
Wizardofnz (Wizardofnz)
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Posted on Monday, January 13, 2014 - 10:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is she a toddler? Pre-teen? this Teenager? Does her age play a part in this? broadly; any specific age is irrelevant
Was she trying to learn to collect things from the bottom of the pool? Like you do when you learn life-saving? no
Did she use the brick to make herself heavier and therefore when she was in a competitive situation she'd be lighter but stronger? no(Like wearing heavy football boots in practice)
Lynne (Lynne)
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Post Number: 5746
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Posted on Monday, January 13, 2014 - 10:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is this a true story?
Wizardofnz (Wizardofnz)
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Posted on Monday, January 13, 2014 - 11:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is this a true story? Reportedly.
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Monday, January 13, 2014 - 11:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Had she been using the string to pull herself up? Had the brick originally been part of a wall?
Wizardofnz (Wizardofnz)
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Posted on Monday, January 13, 2014 - 11:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Had she been using the string to pull herself up? no Had the brick originally been part of a wall? Probably, but irrelevant
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Monday, January 13, 2014 - 11:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the string less than 12 inches? More than 12 inches but less than a yard? Longer?

Had it been attached to Abby? (although I know it's currently not) If so, in her hand, on her arm, leg, torso, neck, head?
Wizardofnz (Wizardofnz)
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Posted on Monday, January 13, 2014 - 11:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the string less than 12 inches? probably about that More than 12 inches but less than a yard? Longer?

Had it been attached to Abby? yes (although I know it's currently not) If so, in her hand, on her arm, leg, torso, neck, head this?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Monday, January 13, 2014 - 11:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was it in her mouth?
Wizardofnz (Wizardofnz)
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Posted on Monday, January 13, 2014 - 11:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was it in her mouth? yes!
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Monday, January 13, 2014 - 11:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Had the brick been attached to the string in her mouth?
Wizardofnz (Wizardofnz)
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Posted on Monday, January 13, 2014 - 11:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Had the brick been attached to the string in her mouth? yes
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Monday, January 13, 2014 - 11:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

And the weight dragged her down? And somehow she couldn't dislodge the string from her mouth?
Wizardofnz (Wizardofnz)
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Posted on Monday, January 13, 2014 - 11:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

And the weight dragged her down? yes, literally speaking And somehow she couldn't dislodge the string from her mouth? no, this isn't it
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Monday, January 13, 2014 - 11:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was she trying a test of endurance? Some other skill? A dare?
Wizardofnz (Wizardofnz)
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Posted on Monday, January 13, 2014 - 11:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was she trying a test of endurance? Some other skill? A dare? no to all
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Monday, January 13, 2014 - 11:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did she pick the brick up with the string? Did she place the string and brick in her mouth with her hand?
Wizardofnz (Wizardofnz)
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Posted on Monday, January 13, 2014 - 11:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did she pick the brick up with the string? no Did she place the string and brick in her mouth with her hand? she placed the string in her mouth with her hand; the brick remained attached to the string but not to her (directly) throughout
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Monday, January 13, 2014 - 11:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I didn't mean to imply that the whole brick went in her mouth:-p
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Monday, January 13, 2014 - 11:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it important to find out why she did such a bizarre thing?
Wizardofnz (Wizardofnz)
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Posted on Monday, January 13, 2014 - 11:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it important to find out why she did such a bizarre thing? Yes, she does have a reason for doing what she did. It may also explain the events immediately leading up to her death
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Monday, January 13, 2014 - 11:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was she testing the strength of her teeth?
Had she seen someone else do something similar and was copying them?
Wizardofnz (Wizardofnz)
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Posted on Tuesday, January 14, 2014 - 12:00 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was she testing the strength of her teeth? YOPE! Please explore this.
Had she seen someone else do something similar and was copying them? possibly; a similar scenario has appeared on TV advertisments.
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Tuesday, January 14, 2014 - 12:02 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Pulling something with your teeth - like a truck?
Wizardofnz (Wizardofnz)
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Posted on Tuesday, January 14, 2014 - 12:09 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Pulling something with your teeth - like a truck? no
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Tuesday, January 14, 2014 - 12:13 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

no more questions m'lord, 'tis late o'clock
Biograd (Biograd)
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Posted on Tuesday, January 14, 2014 - 3:44 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Pulling *out* her teeth (as opposed to pulling something else *with* the teeth)?
Wizardofnz (Wizardofnz)
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Posted on Tuesday, January 14, 2014 - 4:09 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Pulling *out* her teeth (as opposed to pulling something else *with* the teeth)? yes!
Ostap (Ostap)
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Posted on Tuesday, January 14, 2014 - 1:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

You mentioned that it's irrelevant whether Abby was able to swim or not .. so, even if she had been a very good swimmer, she would have drowned?
Was the brick that heavy?
Or did the brick hit her head? knocking her out? and she fell into the pool?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Tuesday, January 14, 2014 - 4:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did she have a loose milk tooth? Did she want to yank it out, using the string and brick? Was the tooth not loose enough? Did she pass out? Get knocked out? Did she drown because she was unconscious and in the water? Injured and in the water?
Wizardofnz (Wizardofnz)
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Posted on Tuesday, January 14, 2014 - 8:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ostap:

You mentioned that it's irrelevant whether Abby was able to swim or not .. so, even if she had been a very good swimmer, she would have drowned? yes
Was the brick that heavy? it was a perfectly ordinary brick, such as one might use to build a chimney or the wall of a private house
Or did the brick hit her head? no knocking her out? she was knocked out at some stage and she fell into the pool? she did fall into the pool at some stage

Galfisk:

Did she have a loose milk tooth? yes! Did she want to yank it out, using the string and brick? yes! Was the tooth not loose enough? perhaps - it was removed eventually Did she pass out? Get knocked out? this Did she drown because she was unconscious and in the water? yes Injured and in the water? no

I think we're there, really.

***** SPOILER *****

It is believed that Abby had tried to remove a loose but stubbornly retentive milk tooth by standing on the balcony over her swimming pool, tying a brick to the loose tooth and letting it fall. This was a technique shown in a popular advertisement at the time. Whether the tooth failed to loosen and she was pulled over the low railing or simply pitched forward in the act is unknown. The pool's shallowest end was nearest to the house; Abby hit her head shortly after impact, lost consciousness, and drowned. The brick, string, and deciduous tooth were all found in the pool nearby.


Congratulations to all solvers.
Solo1 (Solo1)
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Posted on Tuesday, January 14, 2014 - 9:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I didn't know anybody pulled a tooth like that any more - or if they ever did. I remember using the string method, but if d-I-y methods didn't work, an older relative was always happy to help. Even in folklore, the chosen aid was a doorknob.

That would make an interesting puzzle: Abby tied her tooth to a doorknob, but it didn't work because the door opened inward! That would have been less violent, anyway
Biograd (Biograd)
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Posted on Wednesday, January 15, 2014 - 3:51 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

She could have used a remote control car (and entertained her pet at the same time):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIq-vG7tm8s

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