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Konnie (Konnie)
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Posted on Monday, January 27, 2014 - 7:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

This is based on a true story I saw years ago on TV; so if it starts sounding familiar, you may have heard it as well.
On the way home from their very first date, Scott physically violates Lily. Yet, they go on to have many more dates and eventually get married. How do you explain this?
Wizardofnz (Wizardofnz)
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Posted on Monday, January 27, 2014 - 10:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

You've probably seen by now that your name isn't added automatically to the puzzle title. We like to preface our titles with our usernames so people can keep track of them easily, and the mods can call us names and take away our birthdays if we're running more than three at once

Groundwork: Are both Scott and Lily adult humans?

Are they happy and consensual in their continued dating and eventual marriage?

Did Scott's physical violation of Lily stem from harmful motives? Did he do it to serve a greater good/benefit for Lily? Was it something that, devoid of context, would be identified as violation based on the nature of the act, but was in fact an act of kindness (the classic about the argentinian fan punching the brazillian fan in a restaurant because he was choking on a fishbone would be an example of this)?
Doriana (Doriana)
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Posted on Tuesday, January 28, 2014 - 12:58 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Lily know Scott had violated her? Had she been unconscious? under the influence of drugs?
Konnie (Konnie)
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Posted on Tuesday, January 28, 2014 - 3:11 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yeah, I noticed after I posted, but wasn't sure how to change it. Sorry

Groundwork: Are both Scott and Lily adult humans? Yes, Scott is HAM and Lily is HAF.

Are they happy and consensual in their continued dating and eventual marriage? Yes

Did Scott's physical violation of Lily stem from harmful motives? No Did he do it to serve a greater good/benefit for Lily? Yes Was it something that, devoid of context, would be identified as violation based on the nature of the act, but was in fact an act of kindness (the classic about the argentinian fan punching the brazillian fan in a restaurant because he was choking on a fishbone would be an example of this)? Yes!

Did Lily know Scott had violated her? Yes Had she been unconscious? under the influence of drugs? No to both.
Admin (Admin)
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Posted on Tuesday, January 28, 2014 - 9:29 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he strike her? Push her? Hug her?

Mouth to mouth involved?

If he had not intervened would she have died? Been injured?

Was she glad of his actions?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Tuesday, January 28, 2014 - 12:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi Konnie! Welcome to the forum.

Did he push her out of the way of a moving vehicle? Were they about to be mugged and he pushed her out of sight?
Konnie (Konnie)
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Posted on Tuesday, January 28, 2014 - 6:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he strike her? Push her? Hug her? No to all of these.

Mouth to mouth involved? No

If he had not intervened would she have died? Been injured? Probably not died; injury was possible.

Was she glad of his actions? Yope; she wasn't happy about the action, but the result.

Did he push her out of the way of a moving vehicle? Were they about to be mugged and he pushed her out of sight? No to both.
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Tuesday, January 28, 2014 - 6:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it relevant where their date took place? On their way home from the date, were they going by bus? By car? On foot?
Were they attacked by someone?
Konnie (Konnie)
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Posted on Tuesday, January 28, 2014 - 7:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it relevant where their date took place? Yes, very! On their way home from the date, were they going by bus? By car? On foot? By car, also important.
Were they attacked by someone? No
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Tuesday, January 28, 2014 - 7:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was Scott driving? Was Lily? Did Scott violate Lily in the car? Did they have car accident?
Were they in restaurant for their date? In cinema? In theater? In other public place?
Is it relevant how they met?
Konnie (Konnie)
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Posted on Tuesday, January 28, 2014 - 9:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was Scott driving? Was Lily? We'll assume Scott, but not really relevant. Did Scott violate Lily in the car? No Did they have car accident? No
Were they in restaurant for their date? They probably ate and drank, but this wasn't the main part of the date.In cinema? In theater? No to both. In other public place? Pretty public, but you have to pay to get in.
Is it relevant how they met? Not relevant, but I believe it was a blind date.
Wizardofnz (Wizardofnz)
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Posted on Tuesday, January 28, 2014 - 9:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were they at a nightclub or dancehall? Were they at an exhibit of any kind? Did their date involve a physical activity (such as ice-skating)?

At the time of violation, was Scott in the car? Was Lily? Was the car stopped?

Did Scott restrain Lily in some way? Was her clothing damaged or removed at all?
Konnie (Konnie)
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Posted on Tuesday, January 28, 2014 - 9:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were they at a nightclub or dancehall? Were they at an exhibit of any kind? No to these. Did their date involve a physical activity (such as ice-skating)? Yes, but not ice-skating.

At the time of violation, was Scott in the car? No Was Lily? No Was the car stopped? Yes

Did Scott restrain Lily in some way? No Was her clothing damaged or removed at all? Not completely and not by Scott
Wizardofnz (Wizardofnz)
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Posted on Tuesday, January 28, 2014 - 10:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Had her clothing gotten caught on something? Contaminated by something? Gotten exposed to a dangerous substance? Did a dangerous creature get inside her clothing?

Did the date involve moving from place to place in the car? Is some kind of orienteering or geo-caching involved?

Did the thing that presented the threat of injury to Lily begin in the car? Was the car stopped in order to address the issue (and that's where the violation occurred)?

Would they have stopped the car anyway? Did the danger present itself after the car was stopped?
Konnie (Konnie)
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Posted on Tuesday, January 28, 2014 - 10:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Had her clothing gotten caught on something? Contaminated by something? Gotten exposed to a dangerous substance? Did a dangerous creature get inside her clothing? No to all. The partial clothing removal occurred before the violation.

Did the date involve moving from place to place in the car? Is some kind of orienteering or geo-caching involved? No. I should explain that the when of the date and where of the car stop are more important than the where of the date.

Did the thing that presented the threat of injury to Lily begin in the car? Was the car stopped in order to address the issue (and that's where the violation occurred)? No and possible FA....but the car was stopped to address an issue

Would they have stopped the car anyway? Did the danger present itself after the car was stopped? Yes
Wizardofnz (Wizardofnz)
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Posted on Wednesday, January 29, 2014 - 9:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the time of day relevant? Was the car stopped due to some issue caused by coldness or darkness (or, similarly, heat or excess light)?

Is the time of year relevant? Is there some kind of seasonal effect in place? Does the date coincide with a particular event or holiday/festive season?

Did Lily remove the clothing herself? Due to being too warm?

Did the car stop by a roadside? In the middle of a road? In a clearing? By a picnic table? In a river? At the bottom of a cliff? Outside either party's house? Outside the place of entertainment? Outside another public facility?
Konnie (Konnie)
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Posted on Wednesday, January 29, 2014 - 9:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the time of day relevant? Was the car stopped due to some issue caused by coldness or darkness (or, similarly, heat or excess light)? No to all.

Is the time of year relevant? Yes Is there some kind of seasonal effect in place? Yes, i suppose. Does the date coincide with a particular event or holiday/festive season? No

Did Lily remove the clothing herself? Yes Due to being too warm? No

Did the car stop by a roadside? Yes In the middle of a road? In a clearing? By a picnic table? In a river? At the bottom of a cliff? Outside either party's house? Outside the place of entertainment? Outside another public facility? No to all of these.
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Thursday, January 30, 2014 - 9:46 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did they get stuck somewhere? Did Scott violate Lily to make her some injuries? Did they get the help first because of these injuries?
Konnie (Konnie)
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Posted on Thursday, January 30, 2014 - 4:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did they get stuck somewhere? No, Lily asked to stop.Did Scott violate Lily to make her some injuries? Did they get the help first because of these injuries? Lily did not suffer any actualy injuries.
Konnie (Konnie)
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Posted on Thursday, January 30, 2014 - 4:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

*actual
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Friday, January 31, 2014 - 11:44 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it relevant why Lily asked to stop? Was something wrong with her? Did she feel ill?
Did Scott know why Lily wanted to stop?
Konnie (Konnie)
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Posted on Friday, January 31, 2014 - 1:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it relevant why Lily asked to stop? Yes! Was something wrong with her? Yope, not wrong per say. Did she feel ill? No
Did Scott know why Lily wanted to stop? Yes
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Friday, January 31, 2014 - 1:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Lily see someone relevant outside the car? Did she have an argument with Scott? Did she hear anything relevant?
Konnie (Konnie)
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Posted on Friday, January 31, 2014 - 1:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Lily see someone relevant outside the car? Did she have an argument with Scott? Did she hear anything relevant? No to all. Lily wanted to stop for a very normal, human reason.
Emeraldink (Emeraldink)
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Posted on Saturday, February 01, 2014 - 9:22 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Can snakes, scorpions, and other biting creatures be ruled out?
Konnie (Konnie)
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Posted on Saturday, February 01, 2014 - 5:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Can snakes, scorpions, and other biting creatures be ruled out? Yes, rule them out.
To do a small recap: Lily and Scott went on a blind date. At some point along the way home in Scott's car, Lily asked to pull over for a specific reason. Scott pulled over as requested, after which Lily partially removed some of her clothing. After which Scott violated her in order to help her in some way.
Doriana (Doriana)
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Posted on Monday, February 03, 2014 - 1:09 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Lilly have to pee?
Konnie (Konnie)
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Posted on Monday, February 03, 2014 - 2:09 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Lilly have to pee? Yes!!
Doriana (Doriana)
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Posted on Monday, February 03, 2014 - 3:05 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The clothing she removed: trousers? underpants? skirt? tights? shoes?
Had she put the clothing back on when Scott violated her?
Konnie (Konnie)
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Posted on Monday, February 03, 2014 - 12:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The clothing she removed: trousers? underpants? skirt? tights? shoes? Right, she just pulled down her underpants and trousers.
Had she put the clothing back on when Scott violated her? No
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Wednesday, February 05, 2014 - 12:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was Lily aware that she needed help/was in danger?
Did the danger come from a person? An animal? Weather?
Biograd (Biograd)
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Posted on Wednesday, February 05, 2014 - 5:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the "danger" simply that she might pee on something of hers, such as her shoes? or was there something in the area around her, unrelated to the act of urination, that could have presented a threat of some kind (e.g. a biker who was about to run into her, a steep slope she could fall down, etc.)?
Konnie (Konnie)
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Posted on Thursday, February 06, 2014 - 9:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was Lily aware that she needed help/was in danger? b{Yes, she needed help, not really danger.}
Did the danger come from a person? An animal? Weather? b{This! The time of year is important.}
Was the "danger" simply that she might pee on something of hers, such as her shoes? b{No} or was there something in the area around her, unrelated to the act of urination, that could have presented a threat of some kind (e.g. a biker who was about to run into her, a steep slope she could fall down, etc.)? Noish...it was related to urination.
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Saturday, February 08, 2014 - 10:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I know that snakes, scorpions and other biting creatures have been ruled out. What about jellyfish?
Konnie (Konnie)
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Posted on Sunday, February 09, 2014 - 5:25 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I know that snakes, scorpions and other biting creatures have been ruled out. What about jellyfish? No, the danger was not any lving thing, it was more of a condition...but you are OTRT for Scott's violation.
Biograd (Biograd)
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Posted on Sunday, February 09, 2014 - 5:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the time of year relevant because of what she was wearing? because there was snow or ice on the ground?

Was it difficult for her to undress? Was there danger of her falling? of something hitting her? of some possession of hers getting lost?

Would there have been a similar danger had she stopped at the same place to remove a rock from her shoe? to squat down to remove a backpack she had stashed under a picnic table? to change her pants?
Konnie (Konnie)
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Posted on Tuesday, February 11, 2014 - 3:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the time of year relevant because of what she was wearing? No because there was snow or ice on the ground? This! Ice was a major factor.

Was it difficult for her to undress? Was there danger of her falling? of something hitting her? of some possession of hers getting lost? No to all.

Would there have been a similar danger had she stopped at the same place to remove a rock from her shoe? to squat down to remove a backpack she had stashed under a picnic table? to change her pants? Most likely not. It should be noted that if she were a man urinating, the problem would not have arisen.
Biograd (Biograd)
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Posted on Tuesday, February 11, 2014 - 4:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was she in danger of slipping on the ice and losing her balance while squatting? particularly once the ice got wet/partially melted? or was she just in danger of feeling cold? Did he hold some kind of clothing like a jacket around her to keep her warm?
Konnie (Konnie)
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Posted on Tuesday, February 11, 2014 - 4:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was she in danger of slipping on the ice and losing her balance while squatting? No, the problem was how she tried to keep her balance...particularly once the ice got wet/partially melted? or was she just in danger of feeling cold? Did he hold some kind of clothing like a jacket around her to keep her warm? No to rest.
Biograd (Biograd)
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Posted on Wednesday, February 12, 2014 - 9:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was some part of her body frozen to an object or surface she was using to support herself? either her hands if she was using them to hold herself up? or her rear end if she was sitting on something?
Konnie (Konnie)
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Posted on Wednesday, February 12, 2014 - 9:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was some part of her body frozen to an object or surface she was using to support herself? either her hands if she was using them to hold herself up? or her rear end if she was sitting on something? Yes, her rear was frozen. And what was the only object around for her to sit on?
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Wednesday, February 12, 2014 - 11:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I've seen this one debunked on Snopes - I'll have to sit this one out.
Konnie (Konnie)
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Posted on Wednesday, February 12, 2014 - 11:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yeah, I found the Snopes article shortly after posting this too. Now I feel bad calling it a true story haha. Although, in the version I hear, they were married, so not sure if it was the Leno one or a retelling.
Biograd (Biograd)
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Posted on Thursday, February 13, 2014 - 6:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

And what was the only object around for her to sit on?

Some part of the vehicle? like the rear bumper?

You said above that the question about jellyfish was OTRT as to what Scott did, so did he end up peeing on her rear himself to warm it up and "unstick" it? Surely there would have been a better way to warm it up than that?
Konnie (Konnie)
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Posted on Friday, February 14, 2014 - 8:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Some part of the vehicle? like the rear bumper? Yup

You said above that the question about jellyfish was OTRT as to what Scott did, so did he end up peeing on her rear himself to warm it up and "unstick" it? You got it! Surely there would have been a better way to warm it up than that?
And now we have yet another...
SPOILER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
******************************************************************
Scott and Lily went on a blind date with a group of friends to a ski resort. Unfortunately on the way home, on a desolate road, Lily had to 'relieve' herself. She sat on the rear bumper, but realized after finishing her business that her rear was frozen. She embarassedly called for Scott, who tried in vain to find some warm beverage in the car.Afriad that pulling her off could rip skin, they decided on the only other warm liquid available. According to the version I heard, they road the rest of the way home in silence. However, after revealing so much to each other, they ended up getting married and laughing about for years to come.

However, I've recently discovered this is most likely a myth. Still one of my favorite stories.

Congrats everyone on puttibng the pieces together, especially Biograd for finishing it up. I will post another puzzle soon!
Paul1440 (Paul1440)
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Posted on Saturday, February 15, 2014 - 1:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Well, Barbara Mikkelson thinks it's a myth. See

http://www.snopes.com/love/dating/frozen.asp

I assume that when you saw it on TV, you were referring to the Tonight Show with Jay Leno. I remember that episode as well.

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