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Paul1440 (Paul1440)
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Posted on Wednesday, February 12, 2014 - 6:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The answer is "Two twos, Two threes and an ace".
What is the question?

Suggestion: Don't simply guess what the question is. Ask me yes/no questions about the question.
Doriana (Doriana)
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Posted on Wednesday, February 12, 2014 - 6:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the question "What..."? "How many..."?
Paul1440 (Paul1440)
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Posted on Wednesday, February 12, 2014 - 7:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Doriana (Doriana)

Is the question "What..."? This "How many..."?
Doriana (Doriana)
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Posted on Wednesday, February 12, 2014 - 8:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did you ask this question? If not, did a H/A/M ask it? H/A/F?
Were you asked this question? If not, was a H/A/M asked it? H/A/F?

Playing cards relevant at all?
Biograd (Biograd)
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Posted on Wednesday, February 12, 2014 - 8:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

First the obvious--does the question in fact have to do with playing cards at all?

Assuming so:
Are the five cards mentioned to be collectively understood as a hand? a hand in a particular card game? or in any card game?

Is the question in the form of "What is the lowest valued hand (or set of cards) that satisfy some (mathematical? game-rules-based?) property?"?
Speaking of which--is it relevant whether aces are high or low in the context where the question is posed?

While writing these questions, a possible question came to mind that nevertheless, upon reflection, I can't see how the puzzle statement could answer. I'm now very curious, though, what the actual answer is to my question. I'd make a similar lateral puzzle using the answer to mine, if I knew the answer, but it would be awfully difficult to work out (unless Google could provide some help).
Paul1440 (Paul1440)
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Posted on Thursday, February 13, 2014 - 3:07 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Doriana (Doriana)

Did you ask this question? Yes, but irrelevant If not, did a H/A/M ask it? H/A/F?
Were you asked this question? If not, was a H/A/M asked it? H/A/F?

Playing cards relevant at all? Yes
Paul1440 (Paul1440)
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Posted on Thursday, February 13, 2014 - 3:19 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Biograd (Biograd)

First the obvious--does the question in fact have to do with playing cards at all? Yes (see above)

Assuming so:
Are the five cards mentioned to be collectively understood as a hand? Yes a hand in a particular card game? In Poker; However another card game is involved as well. or in any card game? see above

Is the question in the form of "What is the lowest valued hand (or set of cards) that satisfy some (mathematical? game-rules-based?) property?"? Yes -- "game-rules-based" is closer Speaking of which--is it relevant whether aces are high or low in the context where the question is posed? Use standard poker rules, where aces are high except in 5-high straights/straight-flushes

While writing these questions, a possible question came to mind that nevertheless, upon reflection, I can't see how the puzzle statement could answer. I'm now very curious, though, what the actual answer is to my question. I'd make a similar lateral puzzle using the answer to mine, if I knew the answer, but it would be awfully difficult to work out (unless Google could provide some help).If you want, you can email your question to me and I'll see if I can figure it out
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Thursday, February 13, 2014 - 10:25 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the other game pontoon/blackjack? This hand would be a five card trick totalling 21 (ace counting 11) which is a very high ranking hand in blackjack? Does the question compare high ranking and low ranking hands across games?

Or is the question simply, what is the lowest ranking poker hand above a pair where the value of the cards totals 21?
Paul1440 (Paul1440)
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Posted on Thursday, February 13, 2014 - 8:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Peter365 (Peter365)

Is the other game pontoon/blackjack? This hand would be a five card trick totalling 21 (ace counting 11) which is a very high ranking hand in blackjack? Does the question compare high ranking and low ranking hands across games? No to All

Or is the question simply, what is the lowest ranking poker hand above a pair where the value of the cards totals 21? Not the question I had in mind, but good guess
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Friday, February 14, 2014 - 10:09 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Darn I wasted a really good puzzle on an incorrect guess.

Is the other game a child's one like Snap or Go Fish? Or maybe switch (crazy 8s) where a 2 is a destructive card.
Paul1440 (Paul1440)
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Posted on Friday, February 14, 2014 - 9:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Peter365 (Peter365)

Is the other game a child's one like Snap or Go Fish? Or maybe switch (crazy 8s) where a 2 is a destructive card.No to all. Keep trying
Konnie (Konnie)
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Posted on Friday, February 14, 2014 - 9:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Euchre? Pitch? Shang-hai? Rummy?
Paul1440 (Paul1440)
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Posted on Saturday, February 15, 2014 - 1:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Konnie (Konnie)

Euchre? Pitch? Shang-hai? Rummy?No to All
Paul1440 (Paul1440)
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Posted on Tuesday, February 18, 2014 - 2:36 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ok. I'm going to pretend that somebody went to www.pagat.com and copied and pasted a list of every card game listed on that web site asking if the other game was that one.

Answer: The other game is bridge. Hopefully that will be helpful.
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Wednesday, February 19, 2014 - 10:39 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

My thought process on revisiting this puzzle 'Please don't let it be bridge, please dont let it be bridge, please...D'OH.'

One of the few games I know nothing about. Is some basic idea of Bridge Rules required?

Bids? Contracts? Trumps?

I'm afraid that after those three stops the rules bus has arrived at the terminus of my bridge knowledge.
Paul1440 (Paul1440)
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Posted on Wednesday, February 19, 2014 - 2:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Peter365 (Peter365)


One of the few games I know nothing about. Is some basic idea of Bridge Rules required? Just very basic. Nothing too complicated

Bids? Contracts? Trumps? None of these are relevant

If it helps, the card games "Hearts" and "Spades" will work for this puzzle as well
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Thursday, February 20, 2014 - 2:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So the relevant rule is that cards of ascending value of the suit that's led beat lower value cards of that suit and all other non led suits?
Paul1440 (Paul1440)
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Posted on Thursday, February 20, 2014 - 7:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Peter365 (Peter365)

So the relevant rule is that cards of ascending value of the suit that's led beat lower value cards of that suit and all other non led suits?No. The "rule" is even more basic than that
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Friday, February 21, 2014 - 6:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Claiming tricks?
Paul1440 (Paul1440)
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Posted on Friday, February 21, 2014 - 8:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Balin (Balin)

Claiming tricks? No. The fact that bridge is a "trick taking game" is not the issue here. Try something simpler. Here's a hint: The card game WAR would work as long as 4 players were playing
Paul1440 (Paul1440)
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Posted on Friday, February 21, 2014 - 9:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

If it helps, I think Chinese Poker would work as well (for the second game -- regular poker is still the first game). You can google it and once you see what these games (bridge, spades, hearts, 4 handed war, chinese poker) have in common, you'll be close to solving the original problem
Paul1440 (Paul1440)
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Posted on Tuesday, February 25, 2014 - 2:18 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hint: How many cards?
Konnie (Konnie)
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Posted on Tuesday, February 25, 2014 - 3:24 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Relevant there are five cards in this hand?
Paul1440 (Paul1440)
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Posted on Tuesday, February 25, 2014 - 2:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Konnie (Konnie)

Relevant there are five cards in this hand?Yes, for the poker hand. But there's another "number of cards" besides 5 that I'm looking for
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Wednesday, February 26, 2014 - 3:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

In bridge the entire deck is dealt i.e. 13 card each to 4 players, is that relevant? The same is true of hearts . I'm afraid I'm not familiar with WAR or Chinese Poker.

Is the actual version of poker relevant? Is it ordinary 5 card draw? Stud ? 7 Card ? Texas Holdem? Omaha?
Paul1440 (Paul1440)
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Posted on Wednesday, February 26, 2014 - 5:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Peter365 (Peter365)

In bridge the entire deck is dealt i.e. 13 card each to 4 players, is that relevant? Yes, very relevant!! (With a greater emphasis on the 13) The same is true of hearts . I'm afraid I'm not familiar with WAR or Chinese Poker. Don't worry about that

Is the actual version of poker relevant? Is it ordinary 5 card draw? Stud ? 7 Card ? Texas Holdem? Omaha? The version doesn't matter

By the way, here is a reminder of one earlier question by Biograd that was important:

Is the question in the form of "What is the lowest valued hand (or set of cards) that satisfy some (mathematical? game-rules-based?) property?"? Yes -- "game-rules-based" is closer
Paul1440 (Paul1440)
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Posted on Friday, February 28, 2014 - 3:57 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I decided that we're close enough for me to $poil this puzzle. This puzzle didn't go quite as smoothly as I hoped. Oh well, live and learn.

*****************SPOILER***********************

In bridge, everybody is dealt 13 cards from a regular 52-card deck. When I play, I normally arrange the hand by suits. (Most players do that as well.) Because of that, I notice when I have a royal-flush or a straight-flush in my hand.
This made me wonder: "If I take the best five card poker hand from an arbitrary 13 card bridge hand, what is the lowest hand I can possibly have?" The correct answer is "Two pair. Threes and Twos with an Ace kicker". The 13 card hand consists of two twos, two threes, no fives, no tens, and one of every other rank. Also, the hand cannot have five or more of the same suit, eliminating the flush. (The reason for no fives or tens, is to eliminate the possibility of a straight.)
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Friday, February 28, 2014 - 3:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ah very clever Paul. Similarly like your solution the worst hole cards in Texas Holdem are a 2 and 7 off suit as anything lower than a 7 creates a straight chance.

I'm a poker player of (excuse my lack of modesty) some ability and I love playing people who reorder their cards. You'd be surprised what you can deduce from this action particularly in 5 Card Draw Poker. It's a fairly common 'tell' that people have.

Always play 'em as you're dealt 'em is my motto.

Thanks for a nice puzzle.
Paul1440 (Paul1440)
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Posted on Sunday, March 02, 2014 - 6:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Peter, not arranging the cards is a good idea in poker. It's probably not necessary with only 5 cards. It wouldn't work well in bridge with 13 cards to keep track of, though.

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