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Juiferrant (Juiferrant)
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Post Number: 48
Registered: 11-2013
Posted on Sunday, February 16, 2014 - 5:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Cain and Abel were coworkers. Cain was cheating, and Abel wasn't. However, when their boss discovered that Cain has been cheating, Abel got into trouble as well.
Doriana (Doriana)
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Post Number: 617
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Posted on Sunday, February 16, 2014 - 8:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are they both H/A/M? Is their boss H/A/M?
Relevant what field they work in?
Had Cain been cheating a work?
Getting into trouble = getting written up? getting fired? getting in trouble with the law?
Juiferrant (Juiferrant)
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Post Number: 61
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Posted on Sunday, February 16, 2014 - 8:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are they both H/A/M? Is their boss H/A/M? yes to both, but the M part isn't really relevant
Relevant what field they work in? yope
Had Cain been cheating a work? Sorry, I'm not sure I understand
Getting into trouble = getting written up? this getting fired? probably not this getting in trouble with the law? no
Doriana (Doriana)
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Post Number: 619
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Posted on Sunday, February 16, 2014 - 9:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I meant if he cheated on a work-related task, as opposed to cheating on something that has nothing to do with his job. It should have read at work.

Do they have a white collar job? blue collar?

Did Abel know Cain had been cheating?
Juiferrant (Juiferrant)
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Post Number: 63
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Posted on Sunday, February 16, 2014 - 10:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I meant if he cheated on a work-related task, as opposed to cheating on something that has nothing to do with his job. It should have read at work. In that case the answer is yes

Do they have a white collar job? this blue collar?

Did Abel know Cain had been cheating? irrelevant, assume no
Sundowner (Sundowner)
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Posted on Monday, February 17, 2014 - 8:53 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Cain benefit from the cheating? (before it was found out)
Would he not been able to complete his work (in time) without cheating?
Did someone else benefit from the cheating? Abel?
Did Cain cheat in one specific occasion? or was he permanently, regularly cheating with his work?
Relevant how exactly Cain was cheating? did he make up facts? steal information? fake results?
Would Abel get in trouble when Cain gets fired?
Does Abel have something to hide as well? which Abel and Cain's boss might find out when he is checking on Cain's work?
Was Abel involved in Cain's cheating?
Would the fact Cain was cheating reveal that Abel did not work as efficient as he should either? that he cheated as well?
And just to check: Cain H/A/M? Abel H/A/M?
Doriana (Doriana)
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Post Number: 625
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Posted on Monday, February 17, 2014 - 12:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do we need to know more about their jobs?
Are their jobs exactly the same? Do they work in an office? in a bank? in a government/administrative setting? in education? in the recreational sector?

Did Cain copy someone else's work? Abel's? If so, did Abel get into trouble for not protecting his data/results/whatever properly?
Juiferrant (Juiferrant)
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Post Number: 68
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Posted on Monday, February 17, 2014 - 2:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sundowner

Did Cain benefit from the cheating? (before it was found out) yes
Would he not been able to complete his work (in time) without cheating? yes
Did someone else benefit from the cheating? Abel? no to these
Did Cain cheat in one specific occasion? this or was he permanently, regularly cheating with his work?
Relevant how exactly Cain was cheating? yes did he make up facts? this steal information? fake results?
Would Abel get in trouble when Cain gets fired? no
Does Abel have something to hide as well? which Abel and Cain's boss might find out when he is checking on Cain's work? no to these
Was Abel involved in Cain's cheating? no
Would the fact Cain was cheating reveal that Abel did not work as efficient as he should either? no that he cheated as well? but Abel didn't cheat!
And just to check: Cain H/A/M? Abel H/A/M? yes to both

Doriana

Do we need to know more about their jobs? no
Are their jobs exactly the same? Do they work in an office? in a bank? in a government/administrative setting? in education? in the recreational sector? so this is irrelevant

Did Cain copy someone else's work? Abel's? If so, did Abel get into trouble for not protecting his data/results/whatever properly? no to these
Doriana (Doriana)
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Post Number: 627
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Posted on Monday, February 17, 2014 - 6:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Should Abel have double-checked Cain's work? Did Cain's work contradict Abel's?
Juiferrant (Juiferrant)
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Post Number: 71
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Posted on Tuesday, February 18, 2014 - 10:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Should Abel have double-checked Cain's work? no Did Cain's work contradict Abel's? no
Konnie (Konnie)
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Posted on Tuesday, February 18, 2014 - 10:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Abel and Cain have the same job at ther workplace?

Was Abel justly punished? Did he make any sort of mistake? Was he at all aware of Cain's cheating?
Sundowner (Sundowner)
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Posted on Wednesday, February 19, 2014 - 9:43 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Abel rely on Cain's work? Did he quote it?
Juiferrant (Juiferrant)
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Post Number: 74
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Posted on Wednesday, February 19, 2014 - 2:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Konnie

Did Abel and Cain have the same job at ther workplace? irrelevant

Was Abel justly punished? no Did he make any sort of mistake? no Was he at all aware of Cain's cheating? irrelevant, assume no

Sundowner

Did Abel rely on Cain's work? no Did he quote it? no
Juiferrant (Juiferrant)
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Post Number: 76
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Posted on Sunday, February 23, 2014 - 8:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

HINT

Bob's cheating was related to his job. However, he didn't cheat while doing his work. Abel didn't cheat at all, but when it was found out that Cain cheated, the boss thought Abel cheated as well.

AND A CLARIFICATION
Did Cain cheat in one specific occasion? this or was he permanently, regularly cheating with his work?
Cain cheated at one specific occasion, but the benefits of the cheating were permanent
Doriana (Doriana)
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Post Number: 675
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Posted on Tuesday, February 25, 2014 - 6:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Bob make it look like Abel had cheated?
Juiferrant (Juiferrant)
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Post Number: 86
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Posted on Tuesday, February 25, 2014 - 8:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Oops, did I write "Bob"? I meant Cain, of course. There's no Bob in this puzzle. So,

Did Cain make it look like Abel had cheated? not knowingly
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Wednesday, February 26, 2014 - 8:39 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Abel neglect his work? In that case, would he had found out that Cain was cheating if he had done his job properly?
Did Cain and Abel have each one his own tasks that they were only persons responsible for? Did they have a common task and both contribute to the result?
Were they journalists? Scientists?
Was Cain's cheating a crime?
Juiferrant (Juiferrant)
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Post Number: 88
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Posted on Wednesday, February 26, 2014 - 3:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Abel neglect his work? In that case, would he had found out that Cain was cheating if he had done his job properly? no to these
Did Cain and Abel have each one his own tasks that they were only persons responsible for? Did they have a common task and both contribute to the result? irrelevant
Were they journalists? Scientists? irrelevant
Was Cain's cheating a crime? no
Redwine (Redwine)
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Post Number: 1596
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Posted on Thursday, February 27, 2014 - 3:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Cain make up facts in writing? Speaking? Did he need the made-up facts at work? Did he use his working equimpent to make up the facts? Did he communicate the made-up facts to a relevant person?
Juiferrant (Juiferrant)
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Posted on Saturday, March 01, 2014 - 8:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Cain make up facts in writing? probably this Speaking? maybe also this Did he need the made-up facts at work? need? no Did he use his working equimpent to make up the facts? no Did he communicate the made-up facts to a relevant person? yes
Doriana (Doriana)
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Posted on Monday, March 10, 2014 - 2:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he communicate the made-up facts to Abel? To his boss? to someone else in the company? to the press? to business partners? to investors? to the general public?
Juiferrant (Juiferrant)
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Posted on Monday, March 10, 2014 - 8:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he communicate the made-up facts to Abel? To his boss? this to someone else in the company? or maybe this. But no people apart from Cain, Abel and their boss are really relevant, so, for simlicity's sake, let's say no to the press? to business partners? to investors? to the general public? no to the rest
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Tuesday, March 11, 2014 - 8:18 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Cain make up facts about Abel? And boss believed Cain?
Juiferrant (Juiferrant)
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Posted on Tuesday, March 11, 2014 - 10:51 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Cain make up facts about Abel? And boss believed Cain? no to these
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Tuesday, March 11, 2014 - 3:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was Cain's cheating connected with work discipline (like as if he cheated to justify his absence or being late)?
Juiferrant (Juiferrant)
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Posted on Wednesday, March 12, 2014 - 1:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was Cain's cheating connected with work discipline (like as if he cheated to justify his absence or being late)? no
Redwine (Redwine)
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When Boss found out that Cain's been cheating, did he think that Abel was cheating in exactly the same manner as Cain?
Juiferrant (Juiferrant)
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Posted on Wednesday, March 12, 2014 - 4:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

When Boss found out that Cain's been cheating, did he think that Abel was cheating in exactly the same manner as Cain? yope
Rheo (Rheo)
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Posted on Friday, March 14, 2014 - 10:41 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

When the boss discovered the cheating, did he assume it was Abel cheating & not Cain?

Are the facts which Cain made up relevant?

Did the facts involve statistics, or numbers in any way?
Juiferrant (Juiferrant)
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Posted on Friday, March 14, 2014 - 4:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

When the boss discovered the cheating, did he assume it was Abel cheating & not Cain? no

Are the facts which Cain made up relevant? yes

Did the facts involve statistics, or numbers in any way? no
Rheo (Rheo)
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Posted on Saturday, March 15, 2014 - 6:16 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the boss assume both A&C were cheating?

Did the made up facts involve any other people?

Did the facts involve animals? Plants? Nouns at all?

Did Cain make money off of his cheating? Is that relevant?

Is the cheating spousal? Relationship? Sexual in any way?
Juiferrant (Juiferrant)
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Posted on Saturday, March 15, 2014 - 10:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the boss assume both A&C were cheating? yes

Did the made up facts involve any other people? no

Did the facts involve animals? no Plants? no Nouns at all? yes, certainly

Did Cain make money off of his cheating? yes Is that relevant? yes

Is the cheating spousal? Relationship? Sexual in any way? no to these
Rheo (Rheo)
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Posted on Saturday, March 15, 2014 - 10:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are the exact objects about which Cain made up facts relevant? Are there different kinds of objects?

Are they smaller than an elephant? A sedan? A couch? A 32"TV? Marbles?

Is his job to sell these objects?
Juiferrant (Juiferrant)
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Posted on Saturday, March 15, 2014 - 10:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are the exact objects about which Cain made up facts relevant? yes, if one can call them objects Are there different kinds of objects? Sorry, I'm really not sure how to answer this. Could you perhaps rephrase the question?

Are they smaller than an elephant? A sedan? A couch? A 32"TV? Marbles?

There's an FA here. There were nouns involved in the facts, but not tangible objects, so these questions are inapplicable

Is his job to sell these objects? no
Rheo (Rheo)
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Posted on Saturday, March 15, 2014 - 10:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'm a newb, what's a FA?
Rheo (Rheo)
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Is it faulty assumption?
Rheo (Rheo)
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Is it faulty assumption?
Juiferrant (Juiferrant)
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Posted on Saturday, March 15, 2014 - 10:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yes, or "false assumption"
Rheo (Rheo)
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Is the exact number of made up facts relevant?
1? Under 10? 20?

Are the made up facts referent to hours (or days) worked?

Were they misleading? Or outright lies?
Juiferrant (Juiferrant)
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Is the exact number of made up facts relevant? yes
1? this Under 10? 20?

Are the made up facts referent to hours (or days) worked? no

Were they misleading? Or outright lies? this one, I'd say
Rheo (Rheo)
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Posted on Tuesday, March 18, 2014 - 2:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Cain make up a fact about himself? Something he had or had not done?

Did he make it up before work? After?

Is the reason why his boss didn't believe the fact relevant?
Juiferrant (Juiferrant)
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Posted on Tuesday, March 18, 2014 - 3:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Cain make up a fact about himself? yes Something he had or had not done? no

Did he make it up before work? After? irrelevant, I think

Is the reason why his boss didn't believe the fact relevant? Well, he believed it at first, he only found out about the cheating when someone told him Cain lied
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Did Abel tell the boss Cain lied?
Juiferrant (Juiferrant)
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Posted on Wednesday, March 19, 2014 - 10:19 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Abel tell the boss Cain lied? no. But it's not really relevant who it was, what's relevant is that at some point it was brought to boss' attention that Cain couldn't have possibly told the truth
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Wednesday, March 19, 2014 - 10:22 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Cain lie about:
- his skills and abilities?
- work he'd done?
- his look?
- his family situation?
- his financial situation?
Juiferrant (Juiferrant)
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Posted on Wednesday, March 19, 2014 - 10:26 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Cain lie about:
- his skills and abilities? this
- work he'd done?
- his look?
- his family situation?
- his financial situation?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Wednesday, March 19, 2014 - 10:33 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Cain lie that he had a certain skill/ability? That he didn't have a certain skill/ability? Was the relevant skill/ability crucial to his work?
When boss found out that Cain lied, did he assign Cain's work to Abel? Did Abel have the relevant skill?
Juiferrant (Juiferrant)
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Posted on Wednesday, March 19, 2014 - 10:37 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Cain lie that he had a certain skill/ability? this, kind of That he didn't have a certain skill/ability? Was the relevant skill/ability crucial to his work? no
When boss found out that Cain lied, did he assign Cain's work to Abel? no Did Abel have the relevant skill? irrelevant
Rheo (Rheo)
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Posted on Wednesday, March 19, 2014 - 11:03 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Abel hire Cain?
Juiferrant (Juiferrant)
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Did Abel hire Cain? irrelevant
Rheo (Rheo)
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Was the skill something that required specific education that Cain didn't have?
Juiferrant (Juiferrant)
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Was the skill something that required specific education that Cain didn't have? no
Rheo (Rheo)
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Posted on Wednesday, March 19, 2014 - 11:32 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was it a physical skill? Mental? Analytical?
Juiferrant (Juiferrant)
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Posted on Wednesday, March 19, 2014 - 11:33 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was it a physical skill? Mental? this Analytical?
Doriana (Doriana)
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Language skills relevant? Did he pretend to speak a certain language?
Juiferrant (Juiferrant)
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Language skills relevant? yes Did he pretend to speak a certain language? yope
Rheo (Rheo)
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Posted on Thursday, March 20, 2014 - 10:34 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is Cain's native language relevant?

Did Cain claim to be able to speak a particular language other than his native? Is it relevant exactly which one?

Is the language he pretended to know spoken?
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Posted on Thursday, March 20, 2014 - 11:57 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Speaking a language relevant? Reading it? Writing it? Translating it? Being an expert on it?
Juiferrant (Juiferrant)
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Post Number: 154
Registered: 11-2013
Posted on Thursday, March 20, 2014 - 1:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Rheo

Is Cain's native language relevant? no

Did Cain claim to be able to speak a particular language other than his native? yope Is it relevant exactly which one? yes

Is the language he pretended to know spoken? yope

Galfisk

Speaking a language relevant? Reading it? Writing it? Translating it? Being an expert on it? none of this, really, just that Cain claimed to speak (hint!) more than one foreign language
Rheo (Rheo)
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Post Number: 48
Registered: 3-2014
Posted on Friday, March 21, 2014 - 2:11 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Cain claim to speak a language that cannot for some reason be spoken?
Did he claim to speak a language that didn't exist? Archaic?

Computer languages relevant? Sign language?
Juiferrant (Juiferrant)
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Post Number: 158
Registered: 11-2013
Posted on Friday, March 21, 2014 - 4:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Cain claim to speak a language that cannot for some reason be spoken? yesish
Did he claim to speak a language that didn't exist? yes Archaic? no

Computer languages relevant? Sign language? no to both
Rheo (Rheo)
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Post Number: 52
Registered: 3-2014
Posted on Saturday, March 22, 2014 - 7:37 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he claim to speak Swiss?
Juiferrant (Juiferrant)
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Post Number: 159
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Posted on Saturday, March 22, 2014 - 9:36 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he claim to speak Swiss? no
Rheo (Rheo)
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Post Number: 55
Registered: 3-2014
Posted on Sunday, March 23, 2014 - 12:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he claim to speak the language of a particular country? Ethnic group?

Was the boss a particularly uninformed person?
Do other people think that this language exists?
Have you ever thought so?
Juiferrant (Juiferrant)
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Post Number: 161
Registered: 11-2013
Posted on Sunday, March 23, 2014 - 11:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he claim to speak the language of a particular country? Ethnic group? yes to both

Was the boss a particularly uninformed person? yesish
Do other people think that this language exists?
Have you ever thought so?

I think this requires a HINT/CLARIFICATION:

The question of whether a language is a language (as opposed to dialect) is somewhat tricky, but today most people think that this language exists. It was not so when the events of the puzzle took place.
Redwine (Redwine)
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Post Number: 1932
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Posted on Monday, March 24, 2014 - 2:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he claim to speak language that was invented for a book, game or movie? Did he claim to speak language that was already dead at the time of the puzzle?
Rheo (Rheo)
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Post Number: 63
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Posted on Monday, March 24, 2014 - 8:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the era in which the puzzle takes place relevant?
Modern day? BC? 1st millennium AD? 2nd?
Juiferrant (Juiferrant)
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Post Number: 166
Registered: 11-2013
Posted on Monday, March 24, 2014 - 9:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Redwine

Did he claim to speak language that was invented for a book, game or movie? Did he claim to speak language that was already dead at the time of the puzzle? no to these

Rheo
Is the era in which the puzzle takes place relevant? yes
Modern day? BC? 1st millennium AD? 2nd? second half of the XX century
Rheo (Rheo)
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Post Number: 65
Registered: 3-2014
Posted on Tuesday, March 25, 2014 - 9:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the country to which the language belongs in South America? Africa? Europe? Middle East? Asia?

Is it a country today? Was it a country then?

Is this language the primary language of said country?
Juiferrant (Juiferrant)
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Post Number: 170
Registered: 11-2013
Posted on Wednesday, March 26, 2014 - 4:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the country to which the language belongs in South America? Africa? Europe? this Middle East? Asia?

Is it a country today? yes Was it a country then? no

Is this language the primary language of said country? yes
Sundowner (Sundowner)
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Post Number: 1349
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Posted on Wednesday, March 26, 2014 - 9:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Cain claim to speak a language that does not exist?
Did Abel claim to speak a language that exists but the boss thought it does not exist either?
Relevant which language?
(Luxembourgian? Swiss German? Macedonian? Slovak? Moldovan? Estonian? Latvian? Lithuanian? Slovenian? Croatian? Serbian?)
Juiferrant (Juiferrant)
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Post Number: 173
Registered: 11-2013
Posted on Wednesday, March 26, 2014 - 11:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Cain claim to speak a language that does not exist? I'd rather say it didn't exist at that moment, but yes
Did Abel claim to speak a language that exists but the boss thought it does not exist either? yes
Relevant which language? yes
(Luxembourgian? Swiss German? Macedonian? Slovak? Abel spoke this language Moldovan? Estonian? Latvian? Lithuanian? Slovenian? Croatian? and this is Cain's language Serbian?)
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 230
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Posted on Thursday, March 27, 2014 - 10:06 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So Cain said he was speaking Croatian, a language which did not exist? And when his boss found out, he thought the language Abel was speaking (Slovak) did not exist either?
Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
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Post Number: 411
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Posted on Friday, March 28, 2014 - 2:06 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

But Croatian is a language. I know because I once made a puzzle about a singer who made an X-rated mistake while singing the Croatian national anthem in Croatian.
Juiferrant (Juiferrant)
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Post Number: 175
Registered: 11-2013
Posted on Friday, March 28, 2014 - 7:54 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Galfisk

So Cain said he was speaking Croatian, a language which did not exist? yes And when his boss found out, he thought the language Abel was speaking (Slovak) did not exist either? yes

Gregoryuconn

But Croatian is a language. I know because I once made a puzzle about a singer who made an X-rated mistake while singing the Croatian national anthem in Croatian. Well, yes, it is now. But one of the official languages of Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia was Serbo-Croatian, which was split into four different languages (Serbian, Croatian, Bosnian and Montenegrin) after the fall of Yugoslavia. Which shows how ridiculous the "language vs. dialect" arguments can be, seeing how Serbian and Croatian are perfectly mutually intellegible and still considered different languages, while dialects of Chinese (and some dialects of Arabic, I think) aren't even close to mutual intellegibility, and yet are considered dialects of the same language
Sundowner (Sundowner)
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Post Number: 1353
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Posted on Friday, March 28, 2014 - 8:08 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The discussion about Croatian language is largely political. Most linguists agree that there is just a Serbo-Croatian language with several local varieties. The language standard (officially) used in Croatia is called Croatian, the one used in Serbia is called Serbian. A Bosnian variant has official status in Bosnia & Hercegovina. Besides this, there are lots of local dialects and pronunciation variants.

When it still was Yugoslavia, nobody cared about this. There was just one language with some dialects.

You may compare it with Moldavia, where the official language officially is called Moldovan, but it is, essentially, still Romanian.
Ostap (Ostap)
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Post Number: 141
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Posted on Friday, March 28, 2014 - 1:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Cain, a native speaker of Serbocroatian, state in his job application that he speaks Serbian and Croatian? in order to be able to name one language more? to which the boss became suspicious?
And Abel claimed to speak Czech and Slovak? to which the boss became suspicious as well (but Czech and Slovak are different languages indeed)?
Juiferrant (Juiferrant)
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Post Number: 176
Registered: 11-2013
Posted on Friday, March 28, 2014 - 5:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sundowner

The discussion about Croatian language is largely political. Most linguists agree that there is just a Serbo-Croatian language with several local varieties. The language standard (officially) used in Croatia is called Croatian, the one used in Serbia is called Serbian. A Bosnian variant has official status in Bosnia & Hercegovina. Besides this, there are lots of local dialects and pronunciation variants.

When it still was Yugoslavia, nobody cared about this. There was just one language with some dialects.

You may compare it with Moldavia, where the official language officially is called Moldovan, but it is, essentially, still Romanian. Yes, this is all true, I agree completely. If I'm not mistaken, some of the linguists who codified Croatian standard artificially made it more different from Serbian standard for political reasons

Ostap

Did Cain, a native speaker of Serbocroatian, state in his job application that he speaks Serbian and Croatian? yes, though he was not necessarily a native speaker in order to be able to name one language more? yes to which the boss became suspicious? yes
And Abel claimed to speak Czech and Slovak? yes to which the boss became suspicious as well (but Czech and Slovak are different languages indeed)? yes

==================SPOILER=================
This is a story I've heard a few times. Apparently, in certain Soviet institutions employees received raises for each foreign language they knew. Cain, who knew Serbo-Croatian, stated that he knew Serbian and Croatian, and received a higher salary than he was entitled to until it was brought to his boss' attention that Serbian and Croatian were, in fact, the same language. But then the boss, who heard about Czechoslovakia more often than about Czech and Slovakia separately, thought that Abel, who knew Czech and Slovak, was cheating in a manner similar to Cain. So the boss claimed that Abel only knew Czechoslovakian and lowered Abel's salary.

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