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Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
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Post Number: 305
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Posted on Monday, February 17, 2014 - 8:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

My great-grandmother would probably have received a very prestigious honor if not for the fact that she was Jewish. However, the organization that sponsors the award is not anti-Semitic, and furthermore, is actively opposed to anti-Semitism.
Wizardofnz (Wizardofnz)
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Posted on Monday, February 17, 2014 - 8:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it possible for a Jew to receive this honour?

Did your grandmother avoid the honour solely by virtue of being a Jew, or did some aspect of her lifestyle/practices/geographical location preclude her from winning it? Did her Judaism somehow prevent her from being at the right place at the right time to fulfill the criteria for receiving the honour?
Paul1440 (Paul1440)
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Posted on Tuesday, February 18, 2014 - 2:43 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I notice you said the organization "is not anti-Semitic". Were they ever anti-Semitic in the past?
If so, were they anti-semitic at the time your great-grandmother would have received the award?
Solo1 (Solo1)
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Posted on Tuesday, February 18, 2014 - 3:06 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was her nationality or place of residence relevant?
Alexanderhamilton (Alexanderhamilton)
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Posted on Tuesday, February 18, 2014 - 2:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are the tenets of the Jewish faith relevant? Does it matter if she's an observant Jew or not?
Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
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Post Number: 306
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Posted on Wednesday, February 19, 2014 - 12:34 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it possible for a Jew to receive this honour? NO!

Did your grandmother avoid the honour solely by virtue of being a Jew, Yes or did some aspect of her lifestyle/practices/geographical location preclude her from winning it? No Did her Judaism somehow prevent her from being at the right place at the right time to fulfill the criteria for receiving the honour? No

I notice you said the organization "is not anti-Semitic". Were they ever anti-Semitic in the past?
No If so, were they anti-semitic at the time your great-grandmother would have received the award? No, slight FA

Was her nationality or place of residence relevant? Relevant to why she would have won the award if she weren't Jewish? Somewhat. Relevant to why she didn't? No.

Are the tenets of the Jewish faith relevant? No Does it matter if she's an observant Jew or not? I don't believe so.
Paul1440 (Paul1440)
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Posted on Wednesday, February 19, 2014 - 2:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it possible for the honor to be received by...
a Catholic? a Protestant? a member of another branch of Christianity? a Muslim? a Hindu? a Buddhist?
Alexanderhamilton (Alexanderhamilton)
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Posted on Wednesday, February 19, 2014 - 7:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the organization giving the award non-governmental? Is it a government organization? Is it a religious organization? Is it a nonprofit?

Is the organization still around? Is this award still being given out? if so, can it still not be awarded to Jews?

Is the award only given out to people of a certain religion? If she were ethnically Jewish, but religiously something else, could she receive the award? Would she have to be a Christian?
Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
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Post Number: 307
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Posted on Wednesday, February 19, 2014 - 7:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it possible for the honor to be received by...
a Catholic? a Protestant? a member of another branch of Christianity? a Muslim? a Hindu? a Buddhist? ANy of these

Is the organization giving the award non-governmental? Is it a government organization? Is it a religious organization? Is it a nonprofit? I believe it's a non-profit and the rest are no.

Is the organization still around? Yes Is this award still being given out? Yes if so, can it still not be awarded to Jews? It can't, correct.

Is the award only given out to people of a certain religion? No If she were ethnically Jewish, but religiously something else, could she receive the award? I don't believe so. Would she have to be a Christian? No.
Wizardofnz (Wizardofnz)
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Posted on Wednesday, February 19, 2014 - 7:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the organisation Jewish itself and deliberately gives the award to gentiles who, say, have performed a great service to the Jewish community or championed Jewish rights?
Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
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Post Number: 308
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Posted on Thursday, February 20, 2014 - 1:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the organisation Jewish itself and deliberately gives the award to gentiles who, say, have performed a great service to the Jewish community or championed Jewish rights? Pretty much, yeah.


***SPOILER****

My great-grandmother Pauline was living in New York City in the 1930s when things were starting to look pretty bad for the Jews in Europe. An Austrian woman, Hansi Redlich (no relation to Pauline) wrote to her, and apparently every other Redlich in the New York City phone book, asking her if she would sign an affidavit to allow her to move to the United States and escape persecution. Pauline looked to see what this required. At the time, signing such an affidavit made the signer financially responsible if the immigrant were to become a public charge. So, it was mandatory to post a $10,000 bond and show an income tax statement proving that you had $10,000 in the bank. Pauline did this for Hansi without hesitation. Hansi was very happy and told her family and friends and word spread like wildfire around Vienna. Pauline wound up signing over 250 affidavits. While she did have the $10,000 in the bank, she most certainly did not have $10,000 for each individual and wound up posting bond with the same $10,000 each time. Eventually, the government caught wind of this and told her that her signature would no longer be accepted by the Austrian government. Pauline asked if it would be accepted by other European governments and was told that it would be. So, she signed affidavits for Jews in other countries instead. Shortly thereafter, World War II broke out and it was no longer possible to bring Jews from Europe into America.

The whole point of this long story is that Yad Vashem (literally "Hand of God") which is a Holocaust museum in Israel, gives out the "Righteous Among the Nations" award to righteous gentiles who provided significant aid to Jews during the Holocaust, often at great personal expense (as evidenced by the fact that many of them were killed or imprisoned for their actions.) However, only gentiles are eligible for this award. Jews cannot win it, even if they were not facing direct persecution themselves.

In case you're wondering, Yad Vashem is still handing out the award to people today even though nobody is doing anything to earn it anymore. That's why I answered "yes" to the question above.
Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
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Post Number: 309
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Posted on Thursday, February 20, 2014 - 2:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

And in case you couldn't figure it out, Pauline's last name was Redlich. That's how Hansi found her in the phone book. I meant to put that in the above post but apparently I forgot.
Solo1 (Solo1)
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Posted on Thursday, February 20, 2014 - 6:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Amazing! It should be mentioned that $10,000 was a lot of money in the 1930s. An income of $10,000 put you in the upper 3%, if not 1%. (No, I wasn't there, but I've read about it.)
Thanks for posting this!
Paul1440 (Paul1440)
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Posted on Friday, February 21, 2014 - 6:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Just out of curiosity, was she your mother's mother's mother, mother's father's mother, or father's mother's mother? (I assume she wasn't your father's father's mother since you don't have the same last name.)
Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
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Posted on Saturday, February 22, 2014 - 10:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Just out of curiosity, was she your mother's mother's mother, mother's father's mother, or father's mother's mother? (I assume she wasn't your father's father's mother since you don't have the same last name.) Mother's mother's mother.
Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
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Username: Gregoryuconn

Post Number: 314
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Posted on Saturday, February 22, 2014 - 10:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Just out of curiosity, was she your mother's mother's mother, mother's father's mother, or father's mother's mother? (I assume she wasn't your father's father's mother since you don't have the same last name.) Mother's mother's mother.

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