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Lateral Puzzles » Solved Lateral Thinking Puzzles » Solved Puzzles - February 2014 » [WiZ] Seated with 5, then carried by 6. « Previous Next »

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Wizardofnz (Wizardofnz)
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Username: Wizardofnz

Post Number: 1528
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Posted on Thursday, February 20, 2014 - 11:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Six men are seated together. In turn, they each do something that had never been done before in human history. When one appeared to be taking pains to avoid doing something never done before, he was shot dead. Why? And what were they doing?
Doriana (Doriana)
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Post Number: 647
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Posted on Thursday, February 20, 2014 - 11:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do they all do the same thing?

Are they trying out a new invention?

Are they signing a document?
Wizardofnz (Wizardofnz)
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Post Number: 1530
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Posted on Thursday, February 20, 2014 - 11:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do they all do the same thing? yes

Are they trying out a new invention? no

Are they signing a document? no
Doriana (Doriana)
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Post Number: 651
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Posted on Friday, February 21, 2014 - 12:06 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Politics relevant? Entertainment? Science? Technology?

Do the six men know each other?
Are they doing this voluntarily?
Do they have something relevantin common?

Setting records relevant?
Wizardofnz (Wizardofnz)
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Post Number: 1536
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Posted on Friday, February 21, 2014 - 12:08 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Politics relevant? Entertainment? Science? Technology? no to all

Do the six men know each other? probably irrelevant, but most likely no
Are they doing this voluntarily? yes
Do they have something relevantin common? no

Setting records relevant? no
Doriana (Doriana)
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Post Number: 663
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Posted on Friday, February 21, 2014 - 12:39 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Relevant where the men are?
Sports relevant?
Does the thing that they do take less than 10 seconds? less than a minute? less than 5 minutes? more than that? (per person)
Was the 6th man shot dead by one of the other men?
Wizardofnz (Wizardofnz)
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Username: Wizardofnz

Post Number: 1545
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Posted on Friday, February 21, 2014 - 12:44 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Relevant where the men are? noish, this could be in a number of locations
Sports relevant? no
Does the thing that they do take less than 10 seconds? sometimes less than a minute? yes, if not fewer than 10 less than 5 minutes? more than that? (per person) no to rest
Was the 6th man shot dead by one of the other men? yes
Konnie (Konnie)
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Post Number: 166
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Posted on Friday, February 21, 2014 - 1:52 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Relevant that they are men and not women?

Is this a true historical event/based on events from history?

Was the man shot and killed on purpose? Was he breaking a law or rule by not attempting the feat? Was the man who shot him convicted?

Did the feat they were trying involve guns?
Wizardofnz (Wizardofnz)
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Post Number: 1547
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Posted on Friday, February 21, 2014 - 1:59 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Relevant that they are men and not women? No, although this would more likely happen with men

Is this a true historical event/based on events from history? the latter

Was the man shot and killed on purpose? yes Was he breaking a law or rule yes by not attempting the feat? beware fa Was the man who shot him convicted? yes or no, depending on historical context

Did the feat they were trying involve guns? no
Paul1440 (Paul1440)
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Post Number: 100
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Posted on Friday, February 21, 2014 - 3:53 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did this take place..

Before the 17th century? In the 17th century? 18th? 19th? 20th? 21st?

Were the six men in the military?
Were they all from the same country? If not, was the shooter and the person shot from the same country?
Wizardofnz (Wizardofnz)
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Username: Wizardofnz

Post Number: 1548
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Posted on Friday, February 21, 2014 - 4:04 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did this take place..

Before the 17th century? In the 17th century? 18th? 19th? let's say this, although it would have been possible in any of the others 20th? 21st?

Were the six men in the military? no
Were they all from the same country? irrelevant, but probably If not, was the shooter and the person shot from the same country? let's say yes
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 139
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Posted on Friday, February 21, 2014 - 8:12 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were they criminals? Spies? Was he shot with a gun? Other firearm? Bow? Airgun? Dart? Relevant that he was shot? Or is it enough to know that he was killed? Religion involved? belief in the supernatural? Were they all attempting to do the same thing? Did any of them succeed?
Konnie (Konnie)
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Post Number: 168
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Posted on Friday, February 21, 2014 - 1:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the guy only appear to not attempt the feat, but really was?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Friday, February 21, 2014 - 3:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are they playing a game of some sort? Cards? Does an arguement precede the shooting? Is the order in which they are seated relevant? Are they at a table ? In a circle? Are they sitting on chairs ? the floor?

The thing that the dead guy is trying to avoid doing is the same as the thing the other 5 are doing? Does it require a skill? some physical dexterity? Would it be considered routine or unremarkable in this day and age?
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Friday, February 21, 2014 - 7:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are they trying to hold their breath for a very very long time?
Biograd (Biograd)
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Posted on Friday, February 21, 2014 - 9:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

"...they each do something that had never been done before in human history"
Do you mean that each man does a different thing that has never been done by another human (including the others of the men who had completed their "turn" earlier)? or that all of the men do the SAME thing that, nevertheless, nobody EXCEPT one of those six men had ever done before? or one more alternative, is the thing that has never been done in human history the result of ALL of the men performing their actions in turn, although each action alone has been done before?

Also, your statement "taking pains to avoid doing something never done before" can be understood in two ways. Either, that he took pains to avoid doing one particular thing, that it so happens nobody else had done before, or else, that he deliberately refused to do anything unless somebody had done it before. Which is it?

You say he appeared to be taking pains to avoid it--did he really wish not to, or did it just seem that way? If he was really trying to avoid doing it, was it out of moral conviction? did performing this action require some sort of bravery?

Do the actions involve physical movement? speaking? interacting with the other men around them in some way?

Had these men been given explicit instructions to do something that nobody had ever done before? did they pose it as a challenge to themselves? or were they merely in a situation that demanded the ability to do this? Is anyone observing/judging them? If they succeed, will record(s) be, um, recorded saying that they were the first to do these things?

Wow that's a lot of complicated questions! I'll let you answer now.
Wizardofnz (Wizardofnz)
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Post Number: 1552
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Posted on Sunday, February 23, 2014 - 4:39 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Galfisk:

Were they criminals? no (except possibly the gentleman who just shot the guy next to him) Spies? no Was he shot with a gun? yes Other firearm? no Bow? Airgun? Dart? none of these Relevant that he was shot? only thematically, really Or is it enough to know that he was killed? yes Religion involved? no belief in the supernatural? no Were they all attempting to do the same thing? yes Did any of them succeed? they all did

Konnie:

Did the guy only appear to not attempt the feat, but really was? Highly probably, he would have achieved the feat despite appearing not to attempt to

Peter365:

Are they playing a game of some sort? yes Cards? yes! Does an arguement precede the shooting? no Is the order in which they are seated relevant? no Are they at a table ? yes In a circle? yes Are they sitting on chairs ? yes the floor? no - although sitting on the floor wouldn't materially affect the puzzle

The thing that the dead guy is trying to avoid doing is the same as the thing the other 5 are doing? correct Does it require a skill? some some physical dexterity? the thing he appears to be avoiding doing takes a small degree of physical dexterity Would it be considered routine or unremarkable in this day and age? yes

Balin:

Are they trying to hold their breath for a very very long time? no

Biograd:

"...they each do something that had never been done before in human history"
Do you mean that each man does a different thing that has never been done by another human (including the others of the men who had completed their "turn" earlier)? or that all of the men do the SAME thing that, nevertheless, nobody EXCEPT one of those six men had ever done before? you address two dichotomies here. Are the men performing different actions or the same action, and do the results of each of their actions qualify as something never having been done before, or simply never having been done before the first man started? Respectively, it's the latter and the former or one more alternative, is the thing that has never been done in human history the result of ALL of the men performing their actions in turn, although each action alone has been done before? no - each individual effort/contribution qualifies as something never done before

Also, your statement "taking pains to avoid doing something never done before" can be understood in two ways. Either, that he took pains to avoid doing one particular thing, that it so happens nobody else had done before, or else, that he deliberately refused to do anything unless somebody had done it before. Which is it? the former

You say he appeared to be taking pains to avoid it--did he really wish not to he really wished not to, or did it just seem that way? If he was really trying to avoid doing it, was it out of moral conviction? no did performing this action require some sort of bravery? no

Do the actions involve physical movement? some speaking? no interacting with the other men around them in some way? the performance of this action does not involve interaction - it is often done by people who are alone

Had these men been given explicit instructions to do something that nobody had ever done before? no did they pose it as a challenge to themselves? no or were they merely in a situation that demanded the ability to do this? this is closest Is anyone observing/judging them? no third party is observing or judging If they succeed, will record(s) be, um, recorded saying that they were the first to do these things? no

Wow that's a lot of complicated questions! I'll let you answer now. I hope you have found my answers helpful. I'm not trying to deliberately obfuscate the puzzle, but I think an attempt to make it explicitly clear would be quite cumbersome, and still, in all likelihood, not succeed.
Konnie (Konnie)
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Username: Konnie

Post Number: 182
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Posted on Sunday, February 23, 2014 - 4:45 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were they playing a certain card game for the first time? Relevant which card game? Poker? Blackjack?
Shuffling the deck at all relevant?
Was the man shot cheating? Appeared to be cheating?
Wizardofnz (Wizardofnz)
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Posted on Sunday, February 23, 2014 - 4:48 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were they playing a certain card game for the first time? no Relevant which card game? no, but let's say it's Poker? this Blackjack? no
Shuffling the deck at all relevant? yes
Was the man shot cheating? yes Appeared to be cheating? yes, more relevantly
Konnie (Konnie)
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Username: Konnie

Post Number: 183
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Posted on Sunday, February 23, 2014 - 5:00 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were they attempting a specific shuffle for the first time? A bridge? That thing where you push the cards back and forth?
Did the guy not want to shuffle, or was very deliberate in how he did it, so they thought he marking cards? Hiding cards? Adding cards? Counting cards?
Wizardofnz (Wizardofnz)
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Post Number: 1555
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Posted on Sunday, February 23, 2014 - 5:03 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were they attempting a specific shuffle for the first time? no A bridge? no That thing where you push the cards back and forth? no
Did the guy not want to shuffle no, or was very deliberate in how he did it this, so they thought he marking cards? Hiding cards? Adding cards? Counting cards? no to all. They thought he was cheating by rigging the deck; no more specifics are relevant
Konnie (Konnie)
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Post Number: 186
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Posted on Sunday, February 23, 2014 - 5:09 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So, the man shot was shuffling? Was the thing being done for the time pertaining to the shuffling? Number of cards? Type of cards?
Wizardofnz (Wizardofnz)
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Posted on Sunday, February 23, 2014 - 5:11 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So, the man shot was shuffling? Yes. Although not in the LMFAO sense. Was the thing being done for the (first, I assume) time pertaining to the shuffling? yes Number of cards? Type of cards? no to rest
Konnie (Konnie)
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Post Number: 188
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Posted on Sunday, February 23, 2014 - 5:16 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yes. Although not in the LMFAO sense. I just died laughing.
Were they shuffling a deck of cards for the first time?
At all relevant how cards were dealt?
Was he shuffling slowly? Carefully?
Wizardofnz (Wizardofnz)
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Posted on Sunday, February 23, 2014 - 5:26 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yes. Although not in the LMFAO sense. I just died laughing. Congratulations on dying an unusual death. That's a one-way ticket to starring in a Lateral Thinking Puzzle.
Were they shuffling a deck of cards for the first time? no!
At all relevant how cards were dealt? no
Was he shuffling slowly? Carefully? Assuming you're referring to the guy who was shot, yes to both
Konnie (Konnie)
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Posted on Sunday, February 23, 2014 - 5:32 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ah, but you just recently did that one, so i wouldn't be original.
Relevant why he was actually shuffling slowly? Just because it was his first time doing whatever?
Were they attempting a one-handed shuffle for the first time? (I can do this and it's very difficult for me, so I'd understand why he was slow.)
Wizardofnz (Wizardofnz)
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Posted on Sunday, February 23, 2014 - 5:35 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Relevant why he was actually shuffling slowly? Insofar as he was cheating, which is why he was shot. No further details there are required Just because it was his first time doing whatever? no
Were they attempting a one-handed shuffle for the first time? no (I can do this and it's very difficult for me, so I'd understand why he was slow.)
Konnie (Konnie)
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Posted on Sunday, February 23, 2014 - 5:45 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Riffling at all relevant? Were they riffling for the first time?
The stripping technique at all relevant?
Were they attempting the Casino Dealer's Combination for the first time?
Wizardofnz (Wizardofnz)
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Posted on Sunday, February 23, 2014 - 5:46 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Riffling at all relevant? Were they riffling for the first time?
The stripping technique at all relevant?
Were they attempting the Casino Dealer's Combination for the first time? no to all
Enjay (Enjay)
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Posted on Sunday, February 23, 2014 - 11:09 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I have heard that if a deck of cards are properly shuffled, probability dictates that the order will likely be different to any that has ever been shuffled before. So were the five men shuffling fairly (and thus creating a never-before-seen deck order), while the cheater was trying to create a deck order that was favourable to him (which would have been created before?)
Wizardofnz (Wizardofnz)
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Posted on Sunday, February 23, 2014 - 6:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I have heard that if a deck of cards are properly shuffled, probability dictates that the order will likely be different to any that has ever been shuffled before. So were the five men shuffling fairly (and thus creating a never-before-seen deck order), while the cheater was trying to create a deck order that was favourable to him (which would have been created before?) Precisely!

***** SPOILER ***** (Of Edward J. Harshman-esque proportions)

When you shuffle a deck of cards, you are, highly probably, the first person in history to ever arrange a deck of cards in that exact way.

The number of possible combinations of a card deck is 52!, which equals 8.06581752 x (10^67).

In order to achieve all possible combinations, each currently living person would have to shuffle a deck 1.17912569 x (10^58) times, presuming each new combination were unique.

If I did it right, this would take 3.73650364 x (10^50) years even if each (assumed immortal and childless) person could shuffle one deck per second and each shuffled deck was arranged uniquely.

To put the above in perspective, our best estimates put the age of the universe at 1.2 to 1.45*10^10. So if we took the age of the universe as a unit of measurement, it would take about 2.5*10^40 universe-ages.

To also blow your mind, consider that that's only how long it'll take provided everyone has a truly random shuffle that comes up differently every time, too.

In reality it is probable that people will land on identical shuffles much earlier though (although still basically never), given that you have a definite number of permutations and a large number of shufflers!

Anyway, these 6 guys are playing poker. 5 of them shuffle fairly and get a unique result. One of them stacks the deck, but nobody notices until they deal for the second time. They are then shot for cheating.


Well done to all, especially Konnie for her tenacity and Enjay for winning the final hand.
Konnie (Konnie)
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Post Number: 198
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Posted on Sunday, February 23, 2014 - 10:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ah! I had read that before, but it didn't even occur to me as an answer! Very good puzzle.

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