[Hamilton] Barack Oddity Log Out | Topics | Search
Moderators | Register | Edit Profile

Lateral Puzzles » Solved Lateral Thinking Puzzles » Solved Puzzles - February 2014 » [Hamilton] Barack Oddity « Previous Next »

Author Message
Alexanderhamilton (Alexanderhamilton)
New member
Username: Alexanderhamilton

Post Number: 542
Registered: 9-2013
Posted on Wednesday, February 26, 2014 - 6:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Very early in the history of the United States, there was a personal biographical detail that was considered essential if you wanted to become president. All of the earliest presidents had this biographical detail, but in time it became less important and soon no candidates had the detail.

With the election of President Barack Obama, he became the first president elected in almost two hundred to share that biographical detail. But despite that oddity, virtually no one brought it up.
Doriana (Doriana)
New member
Username: Doriana

Post Number: 684
Registered: 9-2013
Posted on Wednesday, February 26, 2014 - 7:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it to do with the president's parents? ancestors in general? with his place of birth? childhood? education? pre-political career? political career?
Paul1440 (Paul1440)
New member
Username: Paul1440

Post Number: 149
Registered: 1-2014
Posted on Wednesday, February 26, 2014 - 7:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

200 years before Obama was elected, James Madison was elected. So my questions are...

Did James Madison have the detail? James Monroe?
John Quincy Adams? Andrew Jackson?
Alexanderhamilton (Alexanderhamilton)
New member
Username: Alexanderhamilton

Post Number: 543
Registered: 9-2013
Posted on Wednesday, February 26, 2014 - 7:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it to do with the president's parents? Sometimes ancestors in general? No with his place of birth? Sometimes childhood? Yope education? pre-political career? Yes political career? No to the rest

Did James Madison have the detail? James Monroe?
John Quincy Adams? Andrew Jackson? Yes to all
Doriana (Doriana)
New member
Username: Doriana

Post Number: 687
Registered: 9-2013
Posted on Wednesday, February 26, 2014 - 7:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Relevant what they worked as before they became president?
Balin (Balin)
New member
Username: Balin

Post Number: 527
Registered: 9-2013
Posted on Wednesday, February 26, 2014 - 7:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Born not in the contiguous 48 states? (Earliest presidents were born in British colonies)
Alexanderhamilton (Alexanderhamilton)
New member
Username: Alexanderhamilton

Post Number: 544
Registered: 9-2013
Posted on Wednesday, February 26, 2014 - 10:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Relevant what they worked as before they became president? No

Born not in the contiguous 48 states? No(Earliest presidents were born in British colonies) But OTRT
Solo1 (Solo1)
New member
Username: Solo1

Post Number: 380
Registered: 9-2013
Posted on Thursday, February 27, 2014 - 12:53 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

You say parents are sometimes relevant. Would the mother be more relevant than the father, or the other way around, or both equally relevant--or not relevant?
Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
New member
Username: Gregoryuconn

Post Number: 326
Registered: 10-2013
Posted on Thursday, February 27, 2014 - 1:38 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Lived in a foreign country at one point? I doubt that's it, though.... Did any (serious) presidential candidates in the last 200 years who didn't win have this trait? Last 100? Last 50? Last 10? Do any potential (serious) candidates for 2016 have this trait? Ted Cruz was born in Canada, but is apparently eligible to be President because he was born a citizen. Does he have this trait?
Alexanderhamilton (Alexanderhamilton)
New member
Username: Alexanderhamilton

Post Number: 546
Registered: 9-2013
Posted on Thursday, February 27, 2014 - 3:25 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

You say parents are sometimes relevant. Would the mother be more relevant than the father, or the other way around, or both equally relevant--or not relevant? The father is more relevant, but I wouldn't get to caught up in that

Lived in a foreign country at one point? That could be one way to have the trait.I doubt that's it, though.... Did any (serious) presidential candidates in the last 200 years who didn't win have this trait? Last 100? Last 50? Last 10? Rather than go through each and every bio, I'll say that every candidate until 1828 had the trait, and I doubt any did after.

Do any potential (serious) candidates for 2016 have this trait? Ted Cruz was born in Canada, but is apparently eligible to be President because he was born a citizen. Does he have this trait? It pains me to say no to these, because these are very OTRT.
Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
New member
Username: Gregoryuconn

Post Number: 333
Registered: 10-2013
Posted on Thursday, February 27, 2014 - 3:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

George Romney was born in Mexico. Does he have this trait?
Alexanderhamilton (Alexanderhamilton)
New member
Username: Alexanderhamilton

Post Number: 548
Registered: 9-2013
Posted on Thursday, February 27, 2014 - 3:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

George Romney was born in Mexico. Does he have this trait? No, still OTRT.
Enjay (Enjay)
New member
Username: Enjay

Post Number: 2926
Registered: 4-2007
Posted on Thursday, February 27, 2014 - 4:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the trait itself required to become president (ie if you ran for President, someone might check you had it and if not you wouldn't get elected/couldn't run?) Or was it a by-product of something else that was essential to become president?

Did something relevant happen in 1828? A law change?

In Obama's case, is his race relevant? Where he was born? Where he has lived? Where he has visited? His education? His name (specifically last name, since you said the father was more relevant?) His father? Where his father was born? Where his father lives? His mother? Where his mother was born? Where his mother lives? Any other family members?
Alexanderhamilton (Alexanderhamilton)
New member
Username: Alexanderhamilton

Post Number: 551
Registered: 9-2013
Posted on Thursday, February 27, 2014 - 4:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the trait itself required to become president (ie if you ran for President, someone might check you had it and if not you wouldn't get elected/couldn't run?) No Or was it a by-product of something else that was essential to become president? It was a by-product of something essential initially. Later, it was a by-product of something helpful.

Did something relevant happen in 1828? A law change? No to both.

In Obama's case, is his race relevant? Indirectly Where he was born? No Where he has lived? No Where he has visited? No His education? No His name (specifically last name, since you said the father was more relevant?) Indirectly His father? Yes Where his father was born? Yes Where his father lives? No His mother? Where his mother was born? Where his mother lives? Any other family members? No to the rest
Paul1440 (Paul1440)
New member
Username: Paul1440

Post Number: 157
Registered: 1-2014
Posted on Thursday, February 27, 2014 - 4:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I notice that Andrew Jackson (who was elected in 1828) was born in 1767 (before 1776). The next president, Martin Van Buren was born in 1782 (after 1776). Is this relevant?
Alexanderhamilton (Alexanderhamilton)
New member
Username: Alexanderhamilton

Post Number: 552
Registered: 9-2013
Posted on Thursday, February 27, 2014 - 5:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I notice that Andrew Jackson (who was elected in 1828) was born in 1767 (before 1776). The next president, Martin Van Buren was born in 1782 (after 1776). Is this relevant? Very!
Enjay (Enjay)
New member
Username: Enjay

Post Number: 2927
Registered: 4-2007
Posted on Thursday, February 27, 2014 - 7:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So Jackson was not born in an independent America, but Van Buren was? Is that relevant? Is where Jackson's or Van Buren's father was born relevant?

Is Obama's birthdate relevant? His birth year?

Is the age requirement for presidency (I believe candidates must be at least 35) relevant?

Is Obama's last name indirectly relevant because it is not of English origin? Is the trait something to do with not having solely american heritage? Is it relevant that Obama's father was born in Kenya? That Kenya was a British colony at the time?
Paul1440 (Paul1440)
New member
Username: Paul1440

Post Number: 160
Registered: 1-2014
Posted on Thursday, February 27, 2014 - 7:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Actually William H Harrison was the president after Van Buren and he was born in 1773. Does William H Harrison have the detail?
Alexanderhamilton (Alexanderhamilton)
New member
Username: Alexanderhamilton

Post Number: 554
Registered: 9-2013
Posted on Thursday, February 27, 2014 - 7:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So Jackson was not born in an independent America, but Van Buren was? Is that relevant? Yes Is where Jackson's or Van Buren's father was born relevant? No

Is Obama's birthdate relevant? His birth year? There are indirectly relevant

Is the age requirement for presidency (I believe candidates must be at least 35) relevant? Partly

Is Obama's last name indirectly relevant because it is not of English origin? Yes Is the trait something to do with not having solely american heritage? Yes Is it relevant that Obama's father was born in Kenya? Yes That Kenya was a British colony at the time? Yes!

Actually William H Harrison was the president after Van Buren and he was born in 1773. Does William H Harrison have the detail? He does. My bad, I thought everyone after Van Buren didn't.

I think you guys are 97% there.
Enjay (Enjay)
New member
Username: Enjay

Post Number: 2928
Registered: 4-2007
Posted on Thursday, February 27, 2014 - 8:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the trait being part British, or at least part colonial British? Having at least one parent not born in the US?
Alexanderhamilton (Alexanderhamilton)
New member
Username: Alexanderhamilton

Post Number: 555
Registered: 9-2013
Posted on Thursday, February 27, 2014 - 11:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the trait being part British, or at least part colonial British? This is veeeery close. Having at least one parent not born in the US? It would help
Solo1 (Solo1)
New member
Username: Solo1

Post Number: 385
Registered: 9-2013
Posted on Friday, February 28, 2014 - 2:09 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

"He is an Englishman/For he himself has said it/And it's greatly to his credit/That he is an Englishman.
..in spite of all temptations/To belong to other nations/He remains an Englishman." - W.S. Gilbert, HMS Pinafore (I think)
Alexanderhamilton (Alexanderhamilton)
New member
Username: Alexanderhamilton

Post Number: 558
Registered: 9-2013
Posted on Friday, February 28, 2014 - 2:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

"He is an Englishman/For he himself has said it/And it's greatly to his credit/That he is an Englishman.
..in spite of all temptations/To belong to other nations/He remains an Englishman." - W.S. Gilbert, HMS Pinafore (I think)Yes! ...I think.

******SPOILER******
All of the earliest Presidents were born subjects of the British crown. At first this was essential, since only candidates older than 35 could run and the United States wasn't that old yet. By the time of Madison and Monroe, Americans were still only nominating those who were active participants in the Revolution out of habit. But as time went by, the Founding generation died out and the only people elected had always been Americans.

Fast forward to Honolulu, 1960, and the birth of Barack Obama. Obama's father was at the time a British subject (since the British still controlled Kenya). Under the citizenship laws of the time, being born to a father who was a British subject automatically conferred British citizenship. Obama lost this once Kenya gained its independence (and lost his Kenyan citizenship when he was 23), but for the first three years of his life, he was a tea-drinking limey. Just like the Founding Fathers of old!

Obama and his PR team never bring up what I consider a fascinating bit of trivia, probably because it might fuel birther rumors. But Factcheck.org did a nice summary of it back in 2008: http://www.factcheck.org/2008/08/obamas-kenyan-citizenship/
Solo1 (Solo1)
New member
Username: Solo1

Post Number: 388
Registered: 9-2013
Posted on Friday, February 28, 2014 - 4:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I was told by a man who was born in England, raised in Canada, and became an American citizen as an adult, that Her Majesty's government takes the position that "once a Briton, always a Briton" (not just an Englishman). He had to go to a consulate and formally renounce his British citizenship. As far as the US was concerned, he did this when he raised his right hand and became an American citizen.

This was some years ago, and the British law may have changed since, but it was certainly true at the time, which was c. 1960.
Alexanderhamilton (Alexanderhamilton)
New member
Username: Alexanderhamilton

Post Number: 567
Registered: 9-2013
Posted on Friday, February 28, 2014 - 7:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

My understanding after a few minutes on Wikipedia is that British subjects lose their status upon receiving citizenship in another country. So once Kenya automatically granted citizenship to Obama and three-year-old Obama failed to renounce it, he lost his British citizenship. And obviously, Americans were all stripped off their citizenship after independence.

I can now reveal that I had to do an annoying amount of research to figure out whether or not Ted Cruz ever had some form of British citizenship, given his birth in a Commonwealth nation. But no, apparently Canada was the first Commonwealth nation to create a separate citizenship for its residents.
Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
New member
Username: Gregoryuconn

Post Number: 338
Registered: 10-2013
Posted on Friday, February 28, 2014 - 10:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

According to Wikipedia, Charles Evans Hughes, who ran against Woodrow Wilson in 1916, but lost, had a father who was still a British citizen. So at least one serious candidate before Obama has had this trait, though he didn't win.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural-born-citizen_clause#Charles_Evans_Hughes

Add Your Message Here
Post:
Username: Posting Information:
This is a private posting area. Only registered users and moderators may post messages here.
Password:
Options: Enable HTML code in message
Automatically activate URLs in message
Action: