[Hobbsicle] Despot times call for despot measures

[Hobbsicle]

Many pharaohs of ancient Egypt thought they needed something when they clearly didn’t. Kim-Jong-il, former leader of North Korea, said he didn’t need that same thing when he clearly did. Explain.

[Earnest]

Does it involve religion? Was it convenient for them to assert that they need the thing when they don't and viceversa? Was it to convinve people of the need of something else (e.g. money/taxes...)?
Was the something that pharaos claimed to need invented at that time? Or was it somehow seen as something unreachable which instead was reached nowadays? Is it something concrete? Or an abstract concept? Like power?
Is this something perceived as negative nowadays? If so was it also before?

[Hobbsicle]

Does it involve religion? Not inherently, but the situation with the pharaohs does. Was it convenient for them to assert that they need the thing when they don't and viceversa? With pharaohs, no, with Kim Jong-il, yes-ish Was it to convinve people of the need of something else (e.g. money/taxes...)? No
Was the something that pharaos claimed to need invented at that time? Yes Or was it somehow seen as something unreachable which instead was reached nowadays? No Is it something concrete? Yes Or an abstract concept? There is some of this involved, but the "something"
is concrete. Like power? Power is somewhat relevant, mainly in the Kim Jong-il instance
Is this something perceived as negative nowadays? Not particularly, though there is a slightly negative component If so was it also before? I would imagine it to be about the same.

[Earnest]

Can we google the korean leader?

Did pharaos claim to need the thing because there was not a system to "count" how many of the something were needed? Because they wanted to accelerate a process? Pharaos don't need it according to our standars or were they aware of not needing it? Is the something composed by many stuffs (e.g. an irrigation canal?)?

Something = food? Weapon? Money? A particular material? A material for constructing building? A collective name (like more slaves/ more warriors)?

[Hobbsicle]

Can we google the korean leader? Sure. Only a cursory understanding of his regime would be helpful. No special knowledge of history or politics is necessary.

Did pharaos claim to need the thing because there was not a system to "count" how many of the something were needed? Because they wanted to accelerate a process? No Pharaos don't need it according to our standars or were they aware of not needing it? Sort of tricky to answer. I suppose we can’t say for sure that they definitely didn’t need it, but I don’t think anyone today would say they did. But they (apparently) thought they did, and I guess at least some others at the time thought so as well. Is the something composed by many stuffs (e.g. an irrigation canal?)? Sort of, yes

Something = food? Weapon? Money? A particular material? A material for constructing building? A collective name (like more slaves/ more warriors)? No to these

[Earnest]

Ok so...first of all let's individuate the context in which the something is collocated: agriculture? Economics? Science? Politics (e.g. relations with other countries/internal policies/succession policies/demography?)? Finance? Developement(comprhended numerical systems/alphabets/knowledge in general/share of knowledge?)? Military? Religion?

Is the possibility to express this need somehow related to the political regime of the country? I mean, pharaos and the korean leader were in a regime in which basically one person had quite all the powers in his hands...could the need (not need) be expressed even for instance in a democracy or in a context in which nobody (or everyone) has powers on his hands? Is the fact that both north korea and egypt have a landlocked? Relationships with other countries?

[Solong]

Does it have anything to do with life after death? memoralization (graves, statutes, etc?) mummification?

[Hobbsicle]

Earnest

Ok so...first of all let's individuate the context in which the something is collocated: agriculture? Economics? Science? This is closest,
I think, though you wouldn't often find the something related to this category. Politics (e.g. relations with other countries/internal policies/succession policies/demography?)? Finance? Developement(comprhended numerical systems/alphabets/knowledge in general/share of knowledge?)? Military? Religion?

Is the possibility to express this need somehow related to the political regime of the country? No I mean, pharaos and the korean leader were in a regime in which basically one person had quite all the powers in his hands...could the need (not need) be expressed even for instance in a democracy or in a context in which nobody (or everyone) has powers on his hands? Yes Is the fact that both north korea and egypt have a landlocked? Relationships with other countries? irrel

Solong

Does it have anything to do with life after death? YES, in the Egypt case, but not in the Korea case: the "something"
is not inherent to that belief memoralization (graves, statutes, etc?) This is yes-ishly involved in the Egypt case mummification? No

[Earnest]

Piramids? In north korea case = celebration? Propaganda? A building symbolizing an ideal which was contrary to the one of the leader?

Had he affirmed he needed it, would he have contratticted himself? Show him in a particular way to the world? Ok he didn't say he needed it but did he know he clearly needed it instead? Or was him convinced not to need it?

[GalFisk]

Is the pyramid hotel in North Korea relevant?

[Hobbsicle]

Earnest

Piramids? These are involved, yes, but only in Egypt...they are not the "something" In north korea case = celebration? Propaganda? THIS is involved A building symbolizing an ideal which was contrary to the one of the leader? No to others

Had he affirmed he needed it, would he have contratticted himself? Not really Show him in a particular way to the world? Yes-ish Ok he didn't say he needed it but did he know he clearly needed it instead? YES Or was him convinced not to need it? No, or I can only assume not...

GalFisk

Is the pyramid hotel in North Korea relevant? No, didn't even think about that

[GalFisk]

Do they need/not-need: an object? A service? A legacy? A building? A person? A group of people? A reputation? Something others see when they look at them? clothing? Exercise? Some other activity? Something to do with their own body? Something after death?

[Earnest]

Did pharaos claim to need it before dying? After their death? Is it a solid object? Liquid? Gas? Did Kim cleary nees it because of his phyisical appearence? I mean he clearly need = he as Kim or he as Korea? E.g. Because of the economic situation of his country? Because of an event he needed to face? Like something involving agriculture? Industry? War?

Did the leader declare not to need it in public but then contradict himself privately? Is being burried with relatives relevant? Tombs? Is laying in state relevant? Announcement of death relevant? Things to put inside one's tomb?

Is in Korea the something associated to: weakness? Poverty? Humiliation? Is the object bigger than a car? Than a basketball ball? Is it made of iron? Steel? Gold? Is it a mean of transport? Is it used now as it was used in ancient Egypt in general? Is it today considered as something negative worldwide?
Censorship relevant? If so in books? Art? Like he claimed not to need particular colors/shapes/pictures...?

Did pharaos claim to need it as part of a ritual? As part of an oath? Did they claim it after death (like it was written in their tombs?)?

[Hobbsicle]

Galfisk

Do they need/not-need: an object? Something between this A service? A legacy? A building? And this A person? A group of people? A reputation? Something others see when they look at them? clothing? Exercise? Some other activity? This is involved Something to do with their own body? Yes Something after death? Yes, but only for pharoahs...

Earnest

Did pharaos claim to need it before dying? Perhaps, but... After their death? THIS, most relevantly Is it a solid object? Yes Liquid? Gas? Did Kim cleary nees it because of his phyisical appearence? No I mean he clearly need = he as Kim or he as Korea? If I understand right, the need was personal, not something related to representing his country E.g. Because of the economic situation of his country? Because of an event he needed to face? Like something involving agriculture? Industry? War? None of these

Did the leader declare not to need it in public but then contradict himself privately? YES Is being burried with relatives relevant? Tombs? Is laying in state relevant? Announcement of death relevant? Things to put inside one's tomb? This last one!
But again, only in the case of pharaoahs, not for Kim

Is in Korea the something associated to: weakness? This, in Kim's view Poverty? NoHumiliation? Maybe this as well Is the object bigger than a car? Could be smaller, could be bigger, I guess Than a basketball ball? Yes Is it made of iron? Steel? Gold? Probably none of these Is it a mean of transport? No Is it used now as it was used in ancient Egypt in general? Yes, in its essentials Is it today considered as something negative worldwide? No-ish
Censorship relevant? If so in books? Art? Like he claimed not to need particular colors/shapes/pictures...? No to rest

Did pharaos claim to need it as part of a ritual? As part of an oath? No to these Did they claim it after death (like it was written in their tombs?)? Not directly, though we know about it only because of their tombs and/or maybe writings

[Earnest]

In Pharaos' view, was it to facilitate their entrance in the beyond? To show their power? Did every pharaos put the same thing in his own tomb but in different quantities? Were those things discovered by archeologists? If so inside pyramids? Is it the sarcophagus itself?
Did pharaos clearly don't need that theing because they already had a pyramid? Was it a vehicle?

Did Kim impose to people to avoid that thing for propaganda but then made use of it? If so, was it evident that he made use of it? After his dead as well?
Don't know if it is true...just guessing: did Kim refuse that his body was covered after his death? Like he wanted that other see his dearh body (like he felt like an indication of weakness to cover his death body)? (I mean...after all nowaday there are no more pyramids so technically a sarcophagus cannot be put inside obe's tomb right?)

In north korean case was it connected to: every day life of every common people? Sonething that just the leader could have the privilege to use but apparently refused it? Something concerning: private life? Transportations? Death? Games? Entertainment? Something to help old people to get up/do things? Something mainly used by young people? Something to help? Is it mainly used at home? In hospitals? In banks? In streets? Everywhere? In specific places?

[Hobbsicle]

In Pharaos' view, was it to facilitate their entrance in the beyond? Yes To show their power? No Did every pharaos put the same thing in his own tomb but in different quantities? No, I imagine it was the same quantity (though I couldn't say for sure), but I don't know that EVERY pharaoh did either (not much of a historian) Were those things discovered by archeologists? Yes If so inside pyramids? Yes Is it the sarcophagus itself? No
Did pharaos clearly don't need that theing because they already had a pyramid? No Was it a vehicle? No

Did Kim impose to people to avoid that thing for propaganda but then made use of it? No, he didn't make others avoid it, just said that he himself didn't need it... but yes, he made use of it If so, was it evident that he made use of it? Yes...ish After his dead as well? No!
Don't know if it is true...just guessing: did Kim refuse that his body was covered after his death? Like he wanted that other see his dearh body (like he felt like an indication of weakness to cover his death body)? (I mean...after all nowaday there are no more pyramids so technically a sarcophagus cannot be put inside obe's tomb right?) No to these, but good idea

In north korean case was it connected to: every day life of every common people? Yes Sonething that just the leader could have the privilege to use but apparently refused it? No, all could use Something concerning: private life? Yes Transportations? Death? Games? Entertainment? Something to help old people to get up/do things? Something mainly used by young people? Something to help? I guess this, DOYD Is it mainly used at home? Yes In hospitals? In banks? In streets? Everywhere? In specific places? This, no to rest

[Earnest]

Ok maybe...so is it something like foubd in bathrooms?...I've read that he claimed not to have the need of defecating. So maybe is something like...Kim claimed not to need a WC when he clearly needed it being a human after all. Pharaos instead claimed to need it in oyramids when they really did not have such a need being dead. Sonething like that?

[Hobbsicle]

Ok maybe...so is it something like foubd in bathrooms?...I've read that he claimed not to have the need of defecating. So maybe is something like...Kim claimed not to need a WC when he clearly needed it being a human after all. Pharaos instead claimed to need it in oyramids when they really did not have such a need being dead. Sonething like that? Nailed it!

********************SPOILER*******************************

Pharaohs had bathrooms put into their pyramid tombs as part of the belief that they would take with them whatever physical objects that surrounded them into the afterlife. And apparently nature calls even after death. If any of you has reasons to believe this may be the case, go now or forever hold your pee. (Sorry for the despotty humor.)

Kim Jong-il has claimed (it is in his official biography) to not need to use the bathroom, on account of his body being perfectly efficient and producing no waste. This is part of the North Korean propaganda strategy to portray their leaders as larger-than-life, and even supernatural. But he clearly needs one, as he is human, after all.

I learned these bathroom-related facts at around the same time, so I figured they needed to be in a puzzle together. Congrats, Earnest, on getting the first solve of 2018.

[Earnest]

My God...I got the 1000th puzzle and the first solve of 2018...I'm getting used to! Many thanks for the puzzle hobbsicle!