[Zanreo] This is illegal, you know

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[Zanreo] This is illegal, you know

Postby Zanreo » Thu Sep 08, 2016 9:11 am

He wouldn't have needed to break the rules if they hadn't already done so
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Re: [Zanreo] This is illegal, you know

Postby Solong » Thu Sep 08, 2016 3:59 pm

OK the basics: He - HAM? They - HAMs, HAFs, mixed?
FYOI? FSEI? Real life?
Time and place relevant?
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Re: [Zanreo] This is illegal, you know

Postby GalFisk » Thu Sep 08, 2016 4:51 pm

Are sports relevant? Teams? Game rules? Laws? Laws of nature? Cheating? Illegal activity?
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Re: [Zanreo] This is illegal, you know

Postby Zanreo » Thu Sep 08, 2016 5:57 pm

Solong
OK the basics: He - HAM? yes They - HAMs this, HAFs, mixed?
FYOI? FSEI? Real life? this
Time and place relevant? Yes(ish)


Galfisk
Are sports relevant? Teams? Game rules? none of these Laws? yesishLaws of nature? no Cheating? no/not the word i'd use Illegal activity?yes
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Re: [Zanreo] This is illegal, you know

Postby Balin » Thu Sep 08, 2016 10:09 pm

Just want to clarify the statement: he did break the rules, right? And so did they?
Did they break the same rules?
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Re: [Zanreo] This is illegal, you know

Postby Westing1992 » Thu Sep 08, 2016 10:15 pm

Did anyone get arrested or punished? Him? Them?
Is a certain modern invention (such as the car) involved?
Did they intentionally break the rules? Did he?
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Re: [Zanreo] This is illegal, you know

Postby Zanreo » Fri Sep 09, 2016 12:20 am

Balin
Just want to clarify the statement: he did break the rules, right? And so did they? Yes
Did they break the same rules? Yes (slight ish)

Westing:
Did anyone get arrested no or punished? yes Him? Yes Them? No/unknown and not relevantly
Is a certain modern invention (such as the car) involved? Yes
Did they intentionally break the rules? Did he? Yes to both
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Re: [Zanreo] This is illegal, you know

Postby Balin » Fri Sep 09, 2016 2:51 am

Is the car the actual invention involved?
Did he break corporate rules? Federal laws? State laws?
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Re: [Zanreo] This is illegal, you know

Postby Zanreo » Fri Sep 09, 2016 3:44 am

Is the car the actual invention involved? no, not a car, but a "modern invention" of some kind
Did he break corporate rules? this/closest Federal laws? State laws?
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Re: [Zanreo] This is illegal, you know

Postby Twilightseeker » Fri Sep 09, 2016 4:35 am

Is the modern invention a kind of computing device?
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Re: [Zanreo] This is illegal, you know

Postby Zanreo » Fri Sep 09, 2016 10:49 am

Is the modern invention a kind of computing device? OTRT
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Re: [Zanreo] This is illegal, you know

Postby Balin » Fri Sep 09, 2016 12:04 pm

Is it a device that can be found in a car? A GPS?
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Re: [Zanreo] This is illegal, you know

Postby Zanreo » Fri Sep 09, 2016 2:58 pm

Is it a device that can be found in a car? A GPS? no and nothing to do with cars
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Re: [Zanreo] This is illegal, you know

Postby Westing1992 » Fri Sep 09, 2016 10:36 pm

Television? Radio? The Internet?
Advertising relevant? Pollution?
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Re: [Zanreo] This is illegal, you know

Postby Zanreo » Fri Sep 09, 2016 10:37 pm

Television? Radio? The Internet?
Advertising relevant? Pollution? none of these
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Re: [Zanreo] This is illegal, you know

Postby Solong » Sat Sep 10, 2016 12:07 am

Was the 'modern invention/ invented within the last 50 years? 75? earlier?
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Re: [Zanreo] This is illegal, you know

Postby Zanreo » Sat Sep 10, 2016 7:54 pm

Was the 'modern invention/ invented within the last 50 years? this 75? but on a wider/less specific scale this earlier?
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Re: [Zanreo] This is illegal, you know

Postby Balin » Sat Sep 10, 2016 8:05 pm

Is the invention used for communication?
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Re: [Zanreo] This is illegal, you know

Postby Zanreo » Sun Sep 11, 2016 12:34 am

Is the invention used for communication? No
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Re: [Zanreo] This is illegal, you know

Postby Zanreo » Thu Sep 15, 2016 11:58 am

Hint: It's an entertainment device
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Re: [Zanreo] This is illegal, you know

Postby biograd » Thu Sep 15, 2016 4:33 pm

Is it a specific type of television set (such as wide screen)? A playback device (e.g. CD?DVD player)?

Did the broken rules relate to copyright? fair use? I'm thinking of something along the lines of someone having to break a copy protection/DRM scheme to ensure compatibility with a device that, according to another rule, should be legally given access but wasn't.
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Re: [Zanreo] This is illegal, you know

Postby Zanreo » Thu Sep 15, 2016 5:10 pm

Is it a specific type of television set (such as wide screen)? No A playback device (e.g. CD?DVD player)? No

Did the broken rules relate to copyright? this is closest fair use? I'm thinking of something along the lines of someone having to break a copy protection/DRM scheme to ensure compatibility with a device that, according to another rule, should be legally given access but wasn't. Not this, no
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Re: [Zanreo] This is illegal, you know

Postby GalFisk » Thu Sep 15, 2016 6:09 pm

Did he break a copy protection? Copy something he wasn't supposed to? Download an illegal copy of something he had bought but couldn't use?
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Re: [Zanreo] This is illegal, you know

Postby Zanreo » Thu Sep 15, 2016 7:33 pm

Did he break a copy protection? no Copy something he wasn't supposed to? Yes-ish, DOYD Download an illegal copy of something he had bought but couldn't use? no
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Re: [Zanreo] This is illegal, you know

Postby GalFisk » Thu Sep 22, 2016 3:53 am

Did he make something public that shouldn't be? Reveal a secret? Encryption relevant?
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Re: [Zanreo] This is illegal, you know

Postby Zanreo » Thu Sep 22, 2016 8:51 am

Did he make something public that shouldn't be? Reveal a secret? Encryption relevant? none of these
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Re: [Zanreo] This is illegal, you know

Postby GalFisk » Thu Sep 22, 2016 9:26 am

Is digital storage relevant? Analog storage? Copying? Showing or playing media for others?
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Re: [Zanreo] This is illegal, you know

Postby Zanreo » Fri Sep 23, 2016 1:19 am

Is digital storage relevant? correction: yes Analog storage? noCopying? yesish Showing or playing media for others? Yesish but beware FA
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Re: [Zanreo] This is illegal, you know

Postby GalFisk » Fri Sep 23, 2016 3:00 am

Analog storage: audio tape? Video tape? Video film? Microfilm? Audio disk? Videodisc? Audio wire? Is a master recording or disc stamping die relevant?
Did their breaking of the rule mean a legal way of doing what he did was unavailable? Copy protection relevant? Macrovision? Encryption relevant? Broadcasting?
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Re: [Zanreo] This is illegal, you know

Postby Zanreo » Fri Sep 23, 2016 5:23 am

Analog storage: audio tape? Video tape? Video film? Microfilm? Audio disk? Videodisc? Audio wire? None of these (i'm pretty sure), and might be a slight FA here as to what the invention/item is Is a master recording or disc stamping die relevant? no
Did their breaking of the rule mean a legal way of doing what he did was unavailable? edit: a legal way WAS indeed unavailable, but no, that's not what "their" breaking would mean Copy protection relevant? not exactly but OTRT Macrovision? Encryption relevant? Broadcasting? no to rest
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Re: [Zanreo] This is illegal, you know

Postby Zanreo » Wed Sep 28, 2016 3:08 am

Recap: A man knowingly breaks a corporate rule, closely related to copyright and copying something, and later gets in trouble for it. This is the same thing (with a slight ish) another group did earlier, and if this group hadn't done it, he wouldn't have to either. An entertainment device of some kind is involved.
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Re: [Zanreo] This is illegal, you know

Postby Balin » Wed Sep 28, 2016 3:09 am

Does he record something? On video? Is VCR or DVR involved?
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Re: [Zanreo] This is illegal, you know

Postby Zanreo » Wed Sep 28, 2016 3:11 am

Does he record something? On video? Is VCR or DVR involved? no to all
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Re: [Zanreo] This is illegal, you know

Postby Zanreo » Wed Sep 28, 2016 3:19 am

CORRECTION also, I misread/misinterpreted something earlier: it's digital storage, not analog. (think I must have been tired when I answered that...) Hopefully this will clear up an understandable FA
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Re: [Zanreo] This is illegal, you know

Postby GalFisk » Wed Sep 28, 2016 3:53 am

Are computer/video games relevant? Is the copied thing a computer file? Did he use the copy made by the other group? If they had not made this copy, would he not have needed a copy? Would he be able to make a legal copy? Was he recreating something they made? Following up on or expanding upon something they made?
Edit: did the company he worked for hold the copyrighht for this item? If not, relevant who did?
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Re: [Zanreo] This is illegal, you know

Postby Zanreo » Wed Sep 28, 2016 4:37 am

Are computer/video games relevant? yes Is the copied thing a computer file? yes, plus... Did he use the copy made by the other group? no If they had not made this copy, would he not have needed a copy? he wouldn't, no Would he be able to make a legal copy? no, and this wouldn't be possible either way Was he recreating something they made? Following up on or expanding upon something they made? no to both
Edit: did the company he worked for hold the copyrighht for this item? no If not, relevant who did? yes, and there's something else relevant than just copyright itself
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Re: [Zanreo] This is illegal, you know

Postby GalFisk » Wed Sep 28, 2016 4:43 am

Did he copy a disc? Cartridge? Tape? Other storage media? Did he copy a manual? License key? Something else needed for the game to run? Was he involved in the making of this game? Did he physically steal something (i. e. remove it from the current owner)?
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Re: [Zanreo] This is illegal, you know

Postby Zanreo » Wed Sep 28, 2016 4:45 am

Did he copy a disc? Cartridge? Tape? Other storage media? I'm assuming it uses this, and yes Did he copy a manual? no License key? no Something else needed for the game to run? Yes, something very much needed indeed Was he involved in the making of this game? no Did he physically steal something (i. e. remove it from the current owner)? no
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Re: [Zanreo] This is illegal, you know

Postby GalFisk » Wed Sep 28, 2016 4:53 am

Was the ther thing he copied: data? Hardware? Codes? A code wheel? Something on paper? Someone's private information? Did anyone who wanted to run this game need a copy of this thing? Was this game no longer sold?
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Re: [Zanreo] This is illegal, you know

Postby Zanreo » Wed Sep 28, 2016 4:55 am

Was the ther thing he copied: data? yes Hardware? and yes Codes? unless you mean programming code, no A code wheel? Something on paper? Someone's private information? no to rest Did anyone who wanted to run this game need a copy of this thing? yes but a slight possible FA here Was this game no longer sold? no, it was still sold (DOYD of "sold")
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Re: [Zanreo] This is illegal, you know

Postby GalFisk » Wed Sep 28, 2016 4:59 am

Did he work for a hardware manufacturer? Did the group copy the hardware of a gaming device? Is the game handheld? Played on a console? Played on a computer? Did the group manufacture knockoffs of hardware made by someone else?
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Re: [Zanreo] This is illegal, you know

Postby Zanreo » Wed Sep 28, 2016 5:18 am

Did he work for a hardware manufacturer? no Did the group copy the hardware of a gaming device? yes Is the game handheld? Played on a console? Played on a computer? none of these Did the group manufacture knockoffs of hardware made by someone else?yes
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Re: [Zanreo] This is illegal, you know

Postby GalFisk » Wed Sep 28, 2016 5:23 am

So because the group made knockoffs, he also did? Did he make one? A few? A lot? Did the group make one? A few? A lot? Could the group have used the official hardware instead? If they hadn't made knockoffs, could the man have used the official hardware instead? Did the group work for the same company as he did? Was the company banned from buying the original hardware? Otherwise unable to acquire it?
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Re: [Zanreo] This is illegal, you know

Postby Zanreo » Wed Sep 28, 2016 5:27 am

So because the group made knockoffs, he also did? not directly "because", but... Did he make one? A few? A lot? assume this Did the group make one? A few? A lot? yes Could the group have used the official hardware instead? No If they hadn't made knockoffs, could the man have used the official hardware instead? yes, or would at least have much less reason not to Did the group work for the same company as he did? No! Was the company banned from buying the original hardware? no Otherwise unable to acquire it? no, but...
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Re: [Zanreo] This is illegal, you know

Postby GalFisk » Wed Sep 28, 2016 5:33 am

Was the company unwilling to acquire the original? Was the knockoff relevantly cheaper than the original? Did the company insist that he matched the price of the knockoff? Did they think the original cost too much?
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Re: [Zanreo] This is illegal, you know

Postby Zanreo » Wed Sep 28, 2016 5:38 am

Was the company unwilling to acquire the original? Was the knockoff relevantly cheaper than the original? Did the company insist that he matched the price of the knockoff? Did they think the original cost too much? No to all, and price not relevant in any way(though something else is)
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Re: [Zanreo] This is illegal, you know

Postby GalFisk » Wed Sep 28, 2016 5:44 am

Ease of manufacture relevant? Licensing terms? If the knockoffs were never made, would the man: make authorized copies of the original? Not make anything? Make something else? Was the man tasked by his company to: make something? Copy something? Compete with someone? Earn the company money? Were the first knockoffs still being made when he started making them? Did the group making the first knockoffs also get in trouble?
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Re: [Zanreo] This is illegal, you know

Postby Zanreo » Wed Sep 28, 2016 5:49 am

Ease of manufacture relevant? No Licensing terms? yes If the knockoffs were never made, would the man: make authorized copies of the original? No, and he couldn'tNot make anything? by himself, yes Make something else? not relevantly Was the man tasked by his company slight FA here - but be careful not to FA the FA to: make something? Copy something? Compete with someone? Earn the company money? not tasked to do any of these, though the last was likely relevant and second is closest Were the first knockoffs still being made when he started making them? Possibly, but irrel Did the group making the first knockoffs also get in trouble? Unknown and irrel
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Re: [Zanreo] This is illegal, you know

Postby GalFisk » Thu Sep 29, 2016 4:31 am

Was the original not licensed to anyone? Did he need to make something that was compatible with the original?
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Re: [Zanreo] This is illegal, you know

Postby Zanreo » Thu Sep 29, 2016 6:32 am

Was the original not licensed to anyone? It was, but... Did he need to make something that was compatible with the original? Yes
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Re: [Zanreo] This is illegal, you know

Postby GalFisk » Thu Sep 29, 2016 8:27 am

Did he need to make something compatible with the knockoff? If he wanted to license the original, would it cost too much? Would there be a legal barrier? Would the owners refuse to license to him/his company? Refuse to license for his purpose?
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Re: [Zanreo] This is illegal, you know

Postby Zanreo » Thu Sep 29, 2016 8:52 am

Did he need to make something compatible with the knockoff? DOYD of "make something", otherwise no(hard to answer, depends on what you mean by making something (else) compatible) If he wanted to license the original, would it cost too much? no, and a slight FA here Would there be a legal barrier? to licensing it? not licensing itself, but...Would the owners refuse to license to him/his company? no and FA Refuse to license for his purpose? yes, for one part of his purpose
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Re: [Zanreo] This is illegal, you know

Postby Zanreo » Wed Oct 05, 2016 11:25 am

Hint: Try exploring more about the licensing
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Re: [Zanreo] This is illegal, you know

Postby GalFisk » Wed Oct 05, 2016 3:46 pm

Does the licensing relevantly: allow something? Disallow something? Require something? Come with strings attached? Cost relevant? Number of licenses available relevant? Production volumes relevant? Relevant how many if the illegal product he ended up making?
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Re: [Zanreo] This is illegal, you know

Postby Zanreo » Wed Oct 05, 2016 3:51 pm

Does the licensing relevantly: allow something? no Disallow something? yes Require something? no Come with strings attached? yes Cost relevant? Number of licenses available relevant? Production volumes relevant? Relevant how many if the illegal product he ended up making? no to rest
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Re: [Zanreo] This is illegal, you know

Postby GalFisk » Sun Oct 09, 2016 8:51 am

Does the licensing disallow certain functions of the product? Certain manufacturing methods or locations? Selling or pricing relevant?
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Re: [Zanreo] This is illegal, you know

Postby Zanreo » Sun Oct 09, 2016 10:21 am

Does the licensing disallow certain functions of the product? no Certain manufacturing methods or locations? OTRT/Yesish, DOYD of "methods" Selling or pricing relevant? no
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Re: [Zanreo] This is illegal, you know

Postby GalFisk » Sun Oct 09, 2016 11:13 am

Does it disallow certain manufacturers? Materials? Designs/looks?
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Re: [Zanreo] This is illegal, you know

Postby Zanreo » Sun Oct 09, 2016 12:29 pm

Does it disallow certain manufacturers? yes (beware a small FA)Materials? Designs/looks? no to rest
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Re: [Zanreo] This is illegal, you know

Postby psymann » Tue Oct 18, 2016 2:23 pm

Did he get in trouble directly because of copying (eg for illegal copying)? Or because of something else that was indirectly caused by copying (eg for doing something he wouldn't have done if he hadn't made the copies)?

He "had" to do it - because:
- he needed to compete with the other group?
- he needed to rectify something the other group had done?
- he needed to check their work?
- he needed to stop them doing something?
- he needed to prove what they'd done was possible?
- he needed to find out how they had done something?
- he needed to make a profit?
- he needed his product to be compatible with theirs?
- he needed the licence under which his product was distributed to be compatible with theirs?

Did he (can I give him a name and call him Clive?) work at the same company as the group?

He copied both software and hardware related to a computer game, right?
But this game was not played on a computer?

Did the group copy the same hardware as he did?
Did they copy the same software?
Did they copy hardware and software relating to the same game?
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Re: [Zanreo] This is illegal, you know

Postby Zanreo » Wed Oct 19, 2016 1:35 pm

Did he get in trouble directly because of copying (eg for illegal copying)? yes, why? Or because of something else that was indirectly caused by copying (eg for doing something he wouldn't have done if he hadn't made the copies)? no

He "had" to do it - because:
- he needed to compete with the other group? yes(ish) but beware FA
- he needed to rectify something the other group had done? yes!
- he needed to check their work? no
- he needed to stop them doing something? yope, or he'd had liked to at least
- he needed to prove what they'd done was possible? no
- he needed to find out how they had done something? no
- he needed to make a profit? yes
- he needed his product to be compatible with theirs? no
- he needed the licence under which his product was distributed to be compatible with theirs? no

Did he (can I give him a name and call him Clive?) sure work at the same company as the group? No and slight FA

He copied both software and hardware related to a computer game, right? yes
But this game was not played on a computer? it wasn't, no

Did the group copy the same hardware as he did? yes
Did they copy the same software? yes
Did they copy hardware and software relating to the same game? yes
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Re: [Zanreo] This is illegal, you know

Postby psymann » Sat Oct 22, 2016 6:21 am

Clive works for Company A; The Group work for Company B?
Both Clive and The Group copied the software and hardware related to a computer game?

Did Clive copy from The Group?
Did Clive and The Group both copy from the same source as each other?

Did the licence from the computer game forbid it being copied? if so, which bit couldn't be copied: the software? hardware? both?

Clive made his copy to fix something the other group had done?

Clive was later in trouble due to the copying - in trouble from The Group? The Group's company? Clive's company? Some other individual? Some other company?

Was the computer game played at all? Or was it unplayable?
If it was played, but it wasn't on a computer, then how was it a computer game!? I mean to say would 'video game' be a more appropriate description than 'computer game'? Was it played on a machine-that-did-in-some-way-compute-something (that would include anything from a digital thermometer to a jumbo jet autopilot machine)?
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Re: [Zanreo] This is illegal, you know

Postby Zanreo » Sat Oct 22, 2016 9:53 am

Clive works for Company A; yes The Group work for Company kind of FA B? yes
Both Clive and The Group copied the software and hardware related to a computer game? yes

Did Clive copy from The Group? no
Did Clive and The Group both copy from the same source as each other? yes

Did the licence from the computer game forbid it being copied? yes if so, which bit couldn't be copied: the software? hardware? both? both

Clive made his copy to fix something the other group had done? Yes, in a way

Clive was later in trouble due to the copying - in trouble from The Group? The Group's company? Clive's company? Some other individual? Some other company? this

Was the computer game played at all? yes Or was it unplayable? no
If it was played, but it wasn't on a computer, then how was it a computer game!? I mean to say would 'video game' be a more appropriate description than 'computer game'? yes Was it played on a machine-that-did-in-some-way-compute-something (that would include anything from a digital thermometer to a jumbo jet autopilot machine)? it was played on something intended to play games
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Re: [Zanreo] This is illegal, you know

Postby psymann » Sat Oct 22, 2016 10:53 am

So it seems The Group weren't really part of a 'Company' - were they part of the government? some regulatory body? some other agency? a community group?
Were The Group actually 'part' of it, or were they the whole of it ('it' being the company/whatever)?

We've been talking about the copied items as being 'related to a computer game'. Were they actually the game itself? the means to play the game? Or something merely related to the game?

Did Clive get in trouble from some company whose job it was to police illegal copying? Did he get in trouble from the original manufacturer of the game? or the company who owned copyright of the game?

Was Clive's company the copyright-holder or the manufacturer of the game? Was The Group's 'company'?
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Re: [Zanreo] This is illegal, you know

Postby Zanreo » Sat Oct 22, 2016 12:12 pm

So it seems The Group weren't really part of a 'Company' - were they part of the government? some regulatory body? some other agency? a community group? None of these
Were The Group actually 'part' of it, or were they the whole of it ('it' being the company/whatever)? they were part of it

We've been talking about the copied items as being 'related to a computer game'. Were they actually the game itself? yesthe means to play the game? and this for a certain meaning of "means" Or something merely related to the game?

Did Clive get in trouble from some company whose job it was to police illegal copying? Did he get in trouble from the original manufacturer of the game? this or the company who owned copyright of the game? which was also this

Was Clive's company the copyright-holder or the manufacturer of the game? not "copyright-holder" but... Was The Group's 'company'? no
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Re: [Zanreo] This is illegal, you know

Postby JenBurdoo » Sun Oct 30, 2016 7:51 pm

Did the first group release mods or cheats for the game? Was Clive trying to stop this? Are the game and device on which it is played abandonware?
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Re: [Zanreo] This is illegal, you know

Postby Zanreo » Mon Oct 31, 2016 10:28 am

Did the first group release mods or cheats for the game? no Was Clive trying to stop this? so no, not that Are the game and device on which it is played abandonware? no
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Re: [Zanreo] This is illegal, you know

Postby Zanreo » Tue Nov 01, 2016 10:52 pm

Hint: I can reveal it was an arcade game
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Re: [Zanreo] This is illegal, you know

Postby Grip » Wed Nov 02, 2016 8:54 pm

Does this have anything to do with Pac-Man? Mortal Kombat?
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Re: [Zanreo] This is illegal, you know

Postby Zanreo » Wed Nov 02, 2016 9:01 pm

Does this have anything to do with Pac-Man? Mortal Kombat? No. I can reveal the game was Breakout
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Re: [Zanreo] This is illegal, you know

Postby Grip » Thu Nov 10, 2016 7:28 pm

Does this have anything to do with Kee Games? Atari? Wozniak?

This was the original Breakout and not Super Breakout, correct?
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Re: [Zanreo] This is illegal, you know

Postby Zanreo » Fri Nov 11, 2016 4:56 pm

Does this have anything to do with Kee Games? No Atari? Yesish but beware FA, that's not the most important part Wozniak? No

This was the original Breakout and not Super Breakout, correct? Yes
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Re: [Zanreo] This is illegal, you know

Postby Grip » Fri Nov 11, 2016 5:02 pm

Is Atari relevant only in that they made the game?

Did this occur in the 70's?
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Re: [Zanreo] This is illegal, you know

Postby Zanreo » Sat Nov 12, 2016 7:26 am

Is Atari relevant only in that they made the game? And for one more thing... but another company is also relevant

Did this occur in the 70's? yes
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Re: [Zanreo] This is illegal, you know

Postby Grip » Sat Nov 12, 2016 12:22 pm

Was the other company a competitor to Atari? did they make a bootleg version of Breakout? or perhaps a clone of it?
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Re: [Zanreo] This is illegal, you know

Postby Zanreo » Sat Nov 12, 2016 12:29 pm

Was the other company a competitor to Atari? They were another game company, but not competitor in this situation did they make a bootleg version of Breakout? or perhaps a clone of it? noish to rest
Last edited by Zanreo on Fri Nov 18, 2016 9:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [Zanreo] This is illegal, you know

Postby Grip » Thu Nov 17, 2016 7:26 pm

Did the person who broke the rules work for Atari? the other company?
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Re: [Zanreo] This is illegal, you know

Postby Zanreo » Fri Nov 18, 2016 2:06 am

Did the person who broke the rules work for Atari? no the other company? Yes
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Re: [Zanreo] This is illegal, you know

Postby Grip » Fri Nov 18, 2016 2:11 am

Is the other company a maker of home computer products?
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Re: [Zanreo] This is illegal, you know

Postby Zanreo » Fri Nov 18, 2016 4:19 am

Is the other company a maker of home computer products? no
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Re: [Zanreo] This is illegal, you know

Postby Grip » Fri Nov 18, 2016 2:34 pm

Was the other company based in a different country? Japan?
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Re: [Zanreo] This is illegal, you know

Postby Zanreo » Fri Nov 18, 2016 9:44 pm

Was the other company based in a different country? Japan? yes
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Re: [Zanreo] This is illegal, you know

Postby Grip » Fri Nov 18, 2016 10:25 pm

Is the other company Sega?

Was the Japan company licensed by Atari to make, copy, or distribute Breakout in Japan? and they misused their license?
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Re: [Zanreo] This is illegal, you know

Postby Zanreo » Sat Nov 19, 2016 9:35 am

Is the other company Sega? No

Was the Japan company licensed by Atari to make, copy, or distribute this Breakout in Japan? and they misused their license? yes!
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Re: [Zanreo] This is illegal, you know

Postby Grip » Sat Nov 19, 2016 2:57 pm

Was the Japanese company importing Breakout machines from Atari in the US?
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Re: [Zanreo] This is illegal, you know

Postby Zanreo » Sat Nov 19, 2016 6:19 pm

Was the Japanese company importing Breakout machines from Atari in the US? yes
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Re: [Zanreo] This is illegal, you know

Postby Grip » Sat Nov 19, 2016 7:07 pm

Did they send to Atari less money than they were supposed to in payment for the machines?

The Japanese company = Konami? Namco? Sony?

So, we have two parties = Atari and the Japanese company and a third party, correct?
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Re: [Zanreo] This is illegal, you know

Postby Zanreo » Sat Nov 19, 2016 11:05 pm

Did they send to Atari less money than they were supposed to in payment for the machines? no

The Japanese company = Konami? Namco? this Sony?

So, we have two parties = Atari and the Japanese company and a third party, correct? Yes
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Re: [Zanreo] This is illegal, you know

Postby Grip » Sat Nov 19, 2016 11:08 pm

Third party = another game company? Yakuza? black marketeers? ninjas?

Did Namco cheat Atari in some way? did Namco get in trouble with the law?
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Re: [Zanreo] This is illegal, you know

Postby Zanreo » Sun Nov 20, 2016 1:26 am

Third party = another game company? Yakuza? this! black marketeers? ninjas? that would have been amazing

Did Namco cheat Atari in some way? yes did Namco get in trouble with the law? yes
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Re: [Zanreo] This is illegal, you know

Postby Grip » Sun Nov 20, 2016 1:35 am

Did the the Yakuza and Namco basically commit the same offense? different offenses? different but similar?

Was the Namco employee afraid of the Yakuza killing him? and he broke the law out of fear?

Did the Yakuza have direct contact with Atari?
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Re: [Zanreo] This is illegal, you know

Postby Zanreo » Sun Nov 20, 2016 1:49 am

Did the the Yakuza and Namco basically commit the same offense? yes different offenses? different but similar?

Was the Namco employee afraid of the Yakuza killing him? not this, but explore what happened between them and he broke the law out of fear? not for this reason

Did the Yakuza have direct contact with Atari? no
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Re: [Zanreo] This is illegal, you know

Postby Grip » Sun Nov 20, 2016 1:59 am

The crime = were they copying the hardware and software from the imported cabinets and making their own? or were they simply using the hardware and software and putting it on a computer or similar and selling it? Did the Yakuza steal the Breakout technology from Namco? and Namco fought back by stealing technology from them?
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Re: [Zanreo] This is illegal, you know

Postby Zanreo » Sun Nov 20, 2016 2:01 am

The crime = were they copying the hardware and software from the imported cabinets and making their own? This or were they simply using the hardware and software and putting it an a computer or similar? Did the Yakuza steal the Breakout technology from Namco? Copied from them probably and Namco fought back by stealing technology from them? Not their technology, but...
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Re: [Zanreo] This is illegal, you know

Postby Grip » Sun Nov 20, 2016 2:12 am

Did Namco steal the Yakuza machines away from them? destroy them? because the Yakuza machines were cutting into Namcos profits? (pretty risky if Namco did any of that!)
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Re: [Zanreo] This is illegal, you know

Postby Zanreo » Mon Nov 21, 2016 12:32 am

Did Namco steal the Yakuza machines away from them? destroy them? none of these because the Yakuza machines were cutting into Namcos profits? but this was the worry (pretty risky if Namco did any of that!) yep, but nothing was done to the actual Yakuza machines
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Re: [Zanreo] This is illegal, you know

Postby Grip » Mon Nov 21, 2016 12:59 am

Did Namco start making their own machines illegally instead of just importing them? in response to the Yakuza making illegal machines? so Namco could recoup some of the losses from the Yakuza using their illegal Breakout machines and cutting into Namco's market?

Was making their own machines cheaper for Namco then importing them and also I assume paying licensing fees? did Namco need more machines to combat the Yakuza than Atari was giving them?
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Re: [Zanreo] This is illegal, you know

Postby Zanreo » Tue Nov 22, 2016 3:52 am

Did Namco start making their own machines illegally instead of just importing them? yes in response to the Yakuza making illegal machines? yes, and one more reason so Namco could recoup some of the losses from the Yakuza using their illegal Breakout machines and cutting into Namco's market? yes

Was making their own machines cheaper for Namco then importing them and also I assume paying licensing fees? possibly but irrel did Namco need more machines to combat the Yakuza than Atari was giving them? yes

Almost there, just one more thing to figure out regarding Namco and Atari's license
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Re: [Zanreo] This is illegal, you know

Postby Grip » Tue Nov 22, 2016 1:31 pm

Was Namco the only official Japanese licensee of Breakout?
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Re: [Zanreo] This is illegal, you know

Postby Zanreo » Wed Nov 23, 2016 12:32 am

Was Namco the only official Japanese licensee of Breakout? yes, but they still couldn't...
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Re: [Zanreo] This is illegal, you know

Postby Grip » Wed Nov 23, 2016 1:56 am

They couldn't make their own machines according to the licensing agreement? couldn't put the machines into certain places?
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Re: [Zanreo] This is illegal, you know

Postby Zanreo » Wed Nov 23, 2016 1:20 pm

They couldn't make their own machines according to the licensing agreement? this couldn't put the machines into certain places?

So that's basically everything, time for the

*** SPOILER ***

In the 70's, Namco was Atari's distributor in Japan and were going to distribute Breakout. However, the contract with Atari stated only Atari themselves could make the machines.
The game became a success in Japan, but shipments were slow, and Masaya Nakamura, founder and boss of Namco, noticed there were a bunch of unofficial Breakout copies around, many more than what he had gotten from Atari. After tracking down the source, he found out they were made by a Yakuza clan.
At first, he asked them to stop (yeah, that's gonna work) but instead they offered to help Namco become the top game company in Japan. He refused, and knowing he couldn't stand up to them, he wanted to get more official copies into the market, and asked Atari for more, but shipments were still slow. He first tried talking to Nolan Bushnell about the situation, but Bushnell was hungover from a party the day before and wasn't able to discuss much - disappointed, Nakamura went back again and decided he'd have to make his own Breakout games, even if this wasn't allowed by the contract. Atari stopped getting Breakout orders, and assumed the game didn't do that well in Japan - until an Atari representative who visited Japan saw way more Breakout machines around than what what Atari had sent Namco. This ended in a lawsuit against Namco that Atari won.
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Re: [Zanreo] This is illegal, you know [This is SOLVED]

Postby Grip » Wed Nov 23, 2016 3:02 pm

Good puzzle!
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Re: [Zanreo] This is illegal, you know [This is SOLVED]

Postby Zanreo » Wed Nov 23, 2016 3:15 pm

Thanks! Always fun to share game trivia through puzzles :3
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