[CoffeeBean] Risky Business

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[CoffeeBean] Risky Business

Postby CoffeeBean » Fri Sep 09, 2016 2:54 pm

A man once ran a business that was so popular and profitable that people would wake up thinking about it.

His plan was used by a similar business about a decade after the man's business closed, but it resulted in the arrest of over 100 people.

About 40 years after the man's business closed, a certain group of people put the man's tactics to use when they needed to avoid certain bodily harm.

Almost 100 years after the man started his business, a little girl sang about him.

So who is the man?


Avoid early spoylers if you recognize this story or parts of it
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Risky Business

Postby Westing1992 » Fri Sep 09, 2016 10:21 pm

Was the business a service? A product? Does it have anything to do with sleep? Breakfast?
Were the people arrested because of bootlegging? Gambling? False advertising? Running a scam? Were the businessmen arrested, or the customers, or both?
Did this man's business start in the 19th century? Earlier? Early 20th?
Was this song popular?
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Risky Business

Postby Zanreo » Fri Sep 09, 2016 10:52 pm

Do most people today still know of the business?
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Risky Business

Postby CoffeeBean » Fri Sep 09, 2016 11:51 pm

Was the business a service? A product?
Yes to both
Does it have anything to do with sleep?
Yope (I hate this answer, so I should say explore)
Breakfast? No
Were the people arrested because of bootlegging? Gambling? False advertising?
Running a scam? This is closest
Were the businessmen arrested, or the customers, or both? Just business owners and workers
Did this man's business start in the 19th century? Earlier? Early 20th? From 1895 to 1903
Was this song popular? Yes, in it's own way
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Risky Business

Postby CoffeeBean » Fri Sep 09, 2016 11:53 pm

Do most people today still know of the business? The exact place? No. The business tactic? Absolutely.
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Risky Business

Postby Twilightseeker » Sat Sep 10, 2016 3:27 am

Did he make false promises? sell something that did not do what it said it did? anything to do with beds? sleeping pills? a particular "therapy"?

Avoid bodily harm: purposeful bodily harm inflicted by others? accidental? inflicted by animals? a particular kind of bodily harm: being shot, stabbed, falling, being stung, beaten, poisoned, starved, punched, cut, scraped, smashed?
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Risky Business

Postby Balin » Sat Sep 10, 2016 3:47 am

Did the business have to do with dreaming? With waking up? Does it involve alarm clocks?
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Risky Business

Postby CoffeeBean » Sat Sep 10, 2016 1:40 pm

Did he make false promises? sell something that did not do what it said it did? anything to do with beds? No

sleeping pills? No but OTRT

a particular "therapy"? No

Avoid bodily harm: purposeful bodily harm inflicted by others? Yes
accidental? inflicted by animals? No
a particular kind of bodily harm: being shot, stabbed, falling, being stung, beaten, poisoned, starved, punched, cut, scraped, smashed? They would say punched or maybe beaten
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Risky Business

Postby CoffeeBean » Sat Sep 10, 2016 1:41 pm

Did the business have to do with dreaming? With waking up? Does it involve alarm clocks? No
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Risky Business

Postby Westing1992 » Sat Sep 10, 2016 5:34 pm

Was the song a jingle?
Was the product addictive? Was some sort of drug involved? Hypnotism?
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Risky Business

Postby CoffeeBean » Mon Sep 12, 2016 2:25 pm

Was the song a jingle? No, but it wasn't one that was played on the radio either
Was the product addictive? No Was some sort of drug involved? Yes Hypnotism? No
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Risky Business

Postby Balin » Mon Sep 12, 2016 4:26 pm

Did the business involve medicine? Was the drug legal?
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Risky Business

Postby CoffeeBean » Mon Sep 12, 2016 4:38 pm

Did the business involve medicine? No
Was the drug legal? No
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Risky Business

Postby Balin » Mon Sep 12, 2016 8:29 pm

Is the man committing a crime? Is he manufacturing the drug? Selling it?
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Risky Business

Postby CoffeeBean » Mon Sep 12, 2016 8:30 pm

Is the man committing a crime? Without a doubt, yes
Is he manufacturing the drug? Selling it? Neither
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Risky Business

Postby Twilightseeker » Tue Sep 13, 2016 5:03 am

Does he give people a drug?
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Risky Business

Postby CoffeeBean » Tue Sep 13, 2016 2:17 pm

Does he give people a drug? Yes
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Risky Business

Postby Westing1992 » Tue Sep 13, 2016 7:48 pm

Does he give it to them to put them to sleep? To wake them up? To PREVENT them from falling asleep? For some other reason?

Was the song featured on TV or a movie?
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Risky Business

Postby CoffeeBean » Tue Sep 13, 2016 8:24 pm

Does he give it to them to put them to sleep? Yes
To wake them up? To PREVENT them from falling asleep? For some other reason? No, only to put them to sleep (so to speak)

Was the song featured on TV or a movie? Yes, it was from a movie
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Risky Business

Postby Twilightseeker » Tue Sep 13, 2016 10:23 pm

Does he give them a drug along with selling them another service or product?
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Risky Business

Postby Balin » Tue Sep 13, 2016 10:35 pm

Is he killing the people with the drug?
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Risky Business

Postby CoffeeBean » Wed Sep 14, 2016 2:58 am

Does he give them a drug along with selling them another service or product?
Yes

Is he killing people with the drug?
No
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Risky Business

Postby LemonCurry » Wed Sep 14, 2016 5:40 am

Is the drug contained in a drink? Or in Food?
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Risky Business

Postby GalFisk » Wed Sep 14, 2016 7:03 am

Prohibition relevant? Is the drug alcohol? Opium? Morphine? Is it inhaled? Smoked? Sniffed? Eaten? Drunk? Injected? Is it addictive? Dangerous?
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Risky Business

Postby CoffeeBean » Wed Sep 14, 2016 2:49 pm

Is the drug contained in a drink? This, yes Or in Food? No

Prohibition relevant? No
Is the drug alcohol? Opium? Morphine? None of these
Is it inhaled? Smoked? Sniffed? Eaten? Drunk? This Injected? It could be, but not in this instance
Is it addictive? No
Dangerous? Yes, in more than one way
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Risky Business

Postby Balin » Wed Sep 14, 2016 4:19 pm

Something like slipping them a Mickey Finn?
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Risky Business

Postby CoffeeBean » Wed Sep 14, 2016 4:23 pm

Something like slipping them a Mickey Finn? Exactly! This is the name that you needed to determine. Now all that's left is to uncover the origin of this term.
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Risky Business

Postby GalFisk » Wed Sep 14, 2016 4:53 pm

Was it named after one person? More than one? A place? An event? Something recurring? Are Mickey Finn substitute words for something else (like Mary Jane meaning marihuana)?
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Risky Business

Postby CoffeeBean » Wed Sep 14, 2016 7:34 pm

Was it named after one person? More than one? It was named for one person
A place? An event? Something recurring? The term came from something that happened at a certain place due to a certain person on a recurring basis
Are Mickey Finn substitute words for something else (like Mary Jane meaning marihuana)? No, it's a direct connection
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Risky Business

Postby Twilightseeker » Wed Sep 14, 2016 8:54 pm

Is the person it was named after a bartender?
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Risky Business

Postby CoffeeBean » Wed Sep 14, 2016 9:09 pm

Is the person it was named after a bartender? Yes it was
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Risky Business

Postby Balin » Wed Sep 14, 2016 9:41 pm

Would he rob them after drugging their drinks?
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Risky Business

Postby CoffeeBean » Thu Sep 15, 2016 2:41 pm

Would he rob them after drugging their drinks? Yes. Does anyone know who the group of people were that used this tactic (not the part about robbing people) about 40 years later, and a movie that feature a song about using this tactic (again though, not to rob anyone)?
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Risky Business

Postby rcb » Thu Sep 15, 2016 3:42 pm

I haven't got the slightest idea, but if you say about 40 years later... Was it in the time of the war? If so, relevant who was using it? (The Western Allies? The Russians? The Axis? The Japanese?) Used by prisoners? By their captors/ guards?
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Risky Business

Postby biograd » Thu Sep 15, 2016 4:24 pm

If I recall correctly, the same drug (chloral hydrate) was used sometimes to kidnap sailors and take them prisoner when one ship attacked another. Is this what you mean?
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Risky Business

Postby CoffeeBean » Thu Sep 15, 2016 6:50 pm

I haven't got the slightest idea, but if you say about 40 years later... Was it in the time of the war? This same group was around before, during and after the war, but war isn't relevant
If so, relevant who was using it? (The Western Allies? The Russians? The Axis? The Japanese?) Used by prisoners? By their captors/ guards? None of these, different context than war or combat
If I recall correctly, the same drug (chloral hydrate) was used sometimes to kidnap sailors and take them prisoner when one ship attacked another. Is this what you mean? It was this drug, yes. But it wasn't actually used by the group, only supposedly used.
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Risky Business

Postby Acridian9 » Tue Sep 20, 2016 12:38 pm

Did they use the drug in the same way as the original bartender?
An you said they were not robbing people, right? Did the want to kill them? poison them? let them faint? vomit? feel bad?
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Risky Business

Postby CoffeeBean » Tue Sep 20, 2016 2:41 pm

Did they use the drug in the same way as the original bartender? The group that used the man's tactic in the 1940's did not plan to use it for the same purpose as the original man did (but there's a lurking FA about this group)
And you said they were not robbing people, right? That's right
Did the want to kill them? poison them? This wouldn't have been their intent, yet they apparently didn't care if this happened
let them faint? This was their primary goal, yes vomit? Not this feel bad? Yes, their apparent goal was to either make certain people faint/pass out or feel bad/incapacitated
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Risky Business

Postby Acridian9 » Tue Sep 20, 2016 8:32 pm

What I wanted to know is if the group used the drug in the same way as the bartender did, (i.e. putting it into a drink), or used it in another way.
Did the group share: job? religion? political orientation? social class? (relevant?)
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Risky Business

Postby CoffeeBean » Tue Sep 20, 2016 9:02 pm

What I wanted to know is if the group used the drug in the same way as the bartender did, (i.e. putting it into a drink), or used it in another way.
They never actually used the drug, they only intended for people to think they were using it or planned to use it, but the motive wouldn't have been robbery. It's been discovered that the motive by this group would have been to make a person faint/pass out or feel ill, and you know that their goal was to escape real or perceived harm from punching or beating.
Did the group share: job? This, in one aspect religion? political orientation? social class? I'd say yes to this (relevant?) Yes, the group's connection is relevant in helping figure out who they were
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Risky Business

Postby Acridian9 » Tue Sep 20, 2016 9:18 pm

Did they pretend the drug had been used on themselves? is sport relevant?
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Risky Business

Postby CoffeeBean » Wed Sep 21, 2016 2:52 pm

Did they pretend the drug had been used on themselves? No is sport relevant? Are you referring to athletics? If so, then no.
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Risky Business

Postby CoffeeBean » Wed Sep 21, 2016 2:54 pm

And to clarify, neither the group or the girl who sang about Mickey Finn actually used the tactic, it was only suggested or partially implemented but never actually done
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Risky Business

Postby biograd » Wed Sep 21, 2016 8:08 pm

Did the group threaten to use the drug on people who threatened to hurt THEM?
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Risky Business

Postby CoffeeBean » Wed Sep 21, 2016 8:25 pm

Did the group threaten Not really, more like just plotted or schemed... to use the drug ...not even to go this far, but to give someone an unexpected dosage of something in a drink... on people who threatened to hurt THEM? ...in some cases they were threatened, in other cases they just anticipated getting into a situation where they would need a plan to escape injury, which would typically come in the form of being punched or beaten by other people.
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Risky Business

Postby Acridian9 » Fri Sep 23, 2016 7:12 am

About the shared job: is it a legal job? has it to do with medicine? with catering? with law enforcing? is it done individually or in group?
Would they be punched for something they say? they do? they don't say? they don't do?
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Risky Business

Postby CoffeeBean » Fri Sep 23, 2016 3:38 pm

About the shared job: is it a legal job? Sure has it to do with medicine? with catering? with law enforcing? Not any of these
is it done individually or in group? Both
Would they be punched for something they say? they do? they don't say? they don't do? They typically believed they would be pummeled because of something they had done or said
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Risky Business

Postby rcb » Tue Sep 27, 2016 6:33 am

Are racial conflicts relevant? Were the would-be agressors (against the group) members of the law enforcement? Or maybe of the some vigilante committee?
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Risky Business

Postby Acridian9 » Tue Sep 27, 2016 2:45 pm

TV, theatre or film relevant?
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Risky Business

Postby CoffeeBean » Tue Sep 27, 2016 2:52 pm

Are racial conflicts relevant? No
Were the would-be aggressors (against the group) members of the law enforcement? Or maybe of the some vigilante committee? No, nothing serious like this (see below)

TV, theatre or film relevant? Yes!
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Risky Business

Postby JenBurdoo » Tue Sep 27, 2016 2:57 pm

Anything to do with being "shanghai'ed" onto a ship?
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Risky Business

Postby CoffeeBean » Tue Sep 27, 2016 3:05 pm

Anything to do with being "shanghai'ed" onto a ship? No
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Risky Business

Postby Acridian9 » Tue Sep 27, 2016 6:13 pm

So....was Mickey Finn mentioned in a TV show? theatre play? movie?
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Risky Business

Postby CoffeeBean » Tue Sep 27, 2016 6:43 pm

So....was Mickey Finn mentioned in a TV show? theatre play? movie?

Yes. Mentioned on several occasions by a group that was popular in the 1940's-1950's originally, and has continued to be somewhat popular in the US and possibly other countries. They would mention using it as a tactic to avoid harm when they supposedly felt threatened and would face being beaten or pummeled by another person or people. In the early 1980's there was a movie that featured a song in which a MF was mentioned, but only as something that was a suggested tactic, not actually used. Although the song was not played on the radio it became popular due to the movie's success.
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Risky Business

Postby Balin » Wed Sep 28, 2016 3:03 am

Is the movie a musical?
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Risky Business

Postby CoffeeBean » Wed Sep 28, 2016 3:02 pm

Is the movie a musical? Yes
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Risky Business

Postby Balin » Wed Sep 28, 2016 8:04 pm

Only lyrical Mickey Finn mention I know is in Annie, which was made into a film in 1982; the song "It's the Hard Knock Life" includes "make her drink a Mickey Finn" in all the things the orphans suggest doing to Miss Hannigan.
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Risky Business

Postby CoffeeBean » Wed Sep 28, 2016 8:28 pm

Only lyrical Mickey Finn mention I know is in Annie, which was made into a film in 1982; the song "It's the Hard Knock Life" includes "make her drink a Mickey Finn" in all the things the orphans suggest doing to Miss Hannigan.

That's exactly right! So can you remember a group from TV/entertainment that was popular in the 1940's and still somewhat popular today who often suggested and/or used this tactic to avoid being potentially pummeled, punched or otherwise roughed up?
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Risky Business

Postby Balin » Thu Sep 29, 2016 7:57 pm

...not sure at all. The only group I can come up with is the Three Stooges, but I never heard of them suggesting this tactic... but I'll guess them anyway.
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Risky Business

Postby CoffeeBean » Thu Sep 29, 2016 8:10 pm

...not sure at all. The only group I can come up with is the Three Stooges, but I never heard of them suggesting this tactic... but I'll guess them anyway.

That's it!

****** SPOILER ******

Michael (Mickey) Finn became known for his practice of either directly or with the help of co-workers serving drugged cocktails to patrons. The patrons would pass out after ingesting the drug, and someone at Mickey's bar would take them into a back alley and rob them. When the victims woke up, the last thing they would remember was being in Mickey's bar, but have no idea they'd been robbed or how they'd ended up in an alley.

Annie and the other orphans sang about their Hard Knock Life, and one of the lyrics suggested serving a Mickey Finn to Miss Hannigan.

And on many occasions, the Three Stooges resorted to this tactic. At times, they would impersonate waiters, doctors, pharmacists, chefs, etc. in order to avoid being recognized by the "bad guys." In one case, they dressed as doctors and were asked to operate on a bad guy. If they had admitted they weren't doctors or tried to run for it, they feared the bad guys would surely punish them with a pummeling. So they found a boot and poured several liquids (whatever they found in the medicine cabinet) into it, mixed it up (causing smoke to billow up from the boot), and served it to the patient. While the man was incapacitated the Stooges made their getaway. And in another instance, Moe tried to be discrete and suggest that the other two prepare an "Icky-May" for a bad guy who had come into their restaurant.



Nice work by everyone!
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Risky Business

Postby Balin » Fri Sep 30, 2016 4:11 pm

I haven't seen any Stooges shorts since I was a kid, so I couldn't remember that at all.

Good one!
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