[rcb] Pleading the Fifth

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[rcb] Pleading the Fifth

Postby rcb » Tue Sep 13, 2016 8:01 am

It's still an open question whether Tom has broken the law or not. Nevertheless, he was fined. What's going on?
Last edited by rcb on Thu Sep 15, 2016 2:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [rcb] Pleading the Fifth

Postby Twilightseeker » Tue Sep 13, 2016 8:07 am

Was he fined for some kind of court infraction? Something else that technically not against the law? Any traffic violations relevant? Title relevant at all?
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Re: [rcb] Pleading the Fifth

Postby rcb » Tue Sep 13, 2016 8:46 am

Was he fined for some kind of court infraction? No Something else that technically not against the law? No Any traffic violations relevant? Yes Title relevant at all? Remotely
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Re: [rcb] Pleading the Fifth

Postby Twilightseeker » Tue Sep 13, 2016 9:31 am

Speeding? Driving too *slowly*? Failure to signal a merge or turn? Anything that resulted in an accident (if relevant)? Running a red light/stop sign? Anything that hurt someone? Any damage done?
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Re: [rcb] Pleading the Fifth

Postby rcb » Tue Sep 13, 2016 12:04 pm

Speeding? Driving too *slowly*? Failure to signal a merge or turn? Anything that resulted in an accident (if relevant)? Running a red light/stop sign? Anything that hurt someone? Any damage done? No to all
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Re: [rcb] Pleading the Fifth

Postby CoffeeBean » Tue Sep 13, 2016 3:12 pm

I remember you from years ago on the LTPF, glad you made it back!

Are driving violations relevant? Was Tom in a vehicle when the questionable act was committed? As a driver or passenger? Was he a pedestrian?
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Re: [rcb] Pleading the Fifth

Postby rcb » Tue Sep 13, 2016 6:10 pm

I remember you from years ago on the LTPF, glad you made it back! Thank you, I'm glad to be back.

Are driving violations relevant? I'm not sure if I understand correctly, I'd say yes Was Tom in a vehicle when the questionable act was committed? Yes As a driver This one or passenger? Was he a pedestrian? So, no.
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Re: [rcb] Pleading the Fifth

Postby Twilightseeker » Tue Sep 13, 2016 10:24 pm

Did he know he was potentially breaking a law? Was there a law change involved? A jurisdiction issue? Did he pass from one territory (say a state, county, country borough) into another, where the laws changed as he went over the boarder?
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Re: [rcb] Pleading the Fifth

Postby rcb » Wed Sep 14, 2016 7:14 am

Did he know he was potentially breaking a law? No! (good question) Was there a law change involved? A jurisdiction issue? Did he pass from one territory (say a state, county, country borough) into another, where the laws changed as he went over the boarder? No to these.
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Re: [rcb] Pleading the Fifth

Postby Twilightseeker » Wed Sep 14, 2016 7:57 am

Did other people potentially have the same situation as Tom? Or rather is there something about Tom himself (something physical, his age, profession, background, interests, etc.) that lead him in to being in this situation? Relevant what kind of vehicle he was driving? car? truck? motorcycle? other?

Does this involve a one-way street by any chance?
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Re: [rcb] Pleading the Fifth

Postby rcb » Wed Sep 14, 2016 9:12 am

Did other people potentially have the same situation as Tom? They could have, but it would be rather unusual Or rather is there something about Tom himself It is, indeed, namely... (something physical, his age, profession ... this one, background, interests, etc.) that lead him in to being in this situation? Relevant what kind of vehicle he was driving? Mildly car? truck? Assume this, or maybe some kind of a van motorcycle? other?

Does this involve a one-way street by any chance? Good idea, but no.
Last edited by rcb on Thu Sep 15, 2016 8:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [rcb] Pleading the Fifth

Postby Twilightseeker » Wed Sep 14, 2016 10:03 am

Is he perhaps driving a truck/van professionally? Is he a deliveryman? Does he transport goods? Does he perform a certain service other than this?

Does his possible traffic violation relate to the truck/van itself (such as height, weight, shape)? Did he need to drive under an overpass? Stop on the side of the road to make a delivery?
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Re: [rcb] Pleading the Fifth

Postby rcb » Wed Sep 14, 2016 11:23 am

Is he perhaps driving a truck/van professionally? Yes Is he a deliveryman? No Does he transport goods? Noish Does he perform a certain service other than this? Yes

Does his possible traffic violation relate to the truck/van itself (such as height, weight, shape)? No Did he need to drive under an overpass? No Stop on the side of the road Yes to make a delivery? But no
Last edited by rcb on Thu Sep 15, 2016 8:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [rcb] Pleading the Fifth

Postby Balin » Wed Sep 14, 2016 4:15 pm

Is his stop on the side of the road related to his job? Did he try to help someone in need? Did his truck break down? Did he become ill?
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Re: [rcb] Pleading the Fifth

Postby CoffeeBean » Wed Sep 14, 2016 4:17 pm

Is he a taxi or limousine driver? A bus driver? Another kind of driver associated with transporting people?
Did he park his vehicle in an area that could be questionable for legal parking?
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Re: [rcb] Pleading the Fifth

Postby rcb » Wed Sep 14, 2016 7:43 pm

Is his stop on the side of the road related to his job? Yes Did he try to help someone in need? No Did his truck break down? No Did he become ill? No

Is he a taxi or limousine driver? No A bus driver? No Another kind of driver associated with transporting people? No
Did he park his vehicle in an area that could be questionable for legal parking? Exactly and precisely so! Well done.
Last edited by rcb on Thu Sep 15, 2016 8:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [rcb] Pleading the Fifth

Postby Twilightseeker » Wed Sep 14, 2016 8:40 pm

Is he working as an electrician, plumber, repairman of some kind? Did he park somewhere questionable while doing his job? The side of a street? highway? near someone's house? Did he park in an area on the side of the road that was "yellowed off" as a no-parking zone? was the yellow (or red in some cases) paint worn away? (This just occurs to me since it almost happened to me...)
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Re: [rcb] Pleading the Fifth

Postby rcb » Thu Sep 15, 2016 5:14 am

Is he working as an electrician, plumber, repairman of some kind? No Did he park somewhere questionable while doing his job? Yes The side of a street? Yes highway? No near someone's house? Irrel. Did he park in an area on the side of the road that was "yellowed off" as a no-parking zone? was the yellow (or red in some cases) paint worn away? No (This just occurs to me since it almost happened to me...) It happens, true. Not in this puzzle though (which by the way is a true story).
Last edited by rcb on Thu Sep 15, 2016 8:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [rcb] Pleading the Fifth

Postby Twilightseeker » Thu Sep 15, 2016 6:35 am

Is he a manual worker of some kind? Does he install something? Does he work with a kind of technology?
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Re: [rcb] Pleading the Fifth

Postby rcb » Thu Sep 15, 2016 7:59 am

Is he a manual worker of some kind? Yes Does he install something? Yes Does he work with a kind of technology? Probably he uses some electric equipment, but irrel.
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Re: [rcb] Pleading the Fifth

Postby Twilightseeker » Thu Sep 15, 2016 8:18 am

Does he install flooring? AC? heating/furnace related things? carpeting? something on or in a person's house? something outside the house? related to cars? Does he work on telephone cables or maybe Internet cables?
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Re: [rcb] Pleading the Fifth

Postby rcb » Thu Sep 15, 2016 8:27 am

Does he install flooring? No AC? No heating/furnace related things? No carpeting? No something on or in a person's house? No something outside the house? Yes related to cars? Yes Does he work on telephone cables or maybe Internet cables? No
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Re: [rcb] Pleading the Fifth

Postby Twilightseeker » Thu Sep 15, 2016 8:48 am

Does he install something on or in cars? like a part of the car? or is it car-related, like a garage, parking shelter, driveway material...?
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Re: [rcb] Pleading the Fifth

Postby rcb » Thu Sep 15, 2016 9:55 am

Does he install something on or in cars? No like a part of the car? No or is it car-related, Yes... like a garage, parking shelter, driveway material...? ...but none of these
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Re: [rcb] Pleading the Fifth

Postby Twilightseeker » Thu Sep 15, 2016 11:48 am

Is it something to do with the street/road itself that he installs? does he install signage somewhere? like road signs?
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Re: [rcb] Pleading the Fifth

Postby rcb » Thu Sep 15, 2016 12:03 pm

Is it something to do with the street/road itself that he installs? Yes does he install signage somewhere? Yes, and more exactly ... like road signs? ...this.
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Re: [rcb] Pleading the Fifth

Postby biograd » Thu Sep 15, 2016 1:27 pm

Did he fail to obey a sign that he had just placed? Was he fined because he shouldn't have placed the sign there? or because other drivers would have assumed that he would obey the sign? (like for instance he had just installed a stop sign, and didn't stop at it, and strictly he didn't have to, but drivers from other directions would have assumed he would)
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Re: [rcb] Pleading the Fifth

Postby rcb » Thu Sep 15, 2016 2:12 pm

Did he fail to obey a sign that he had just placed? Yes! Was he fined because he shouldn't have placed the sign there? or because other drivers would have assumed that he would obey the sign? (like for instance he had just installed a stop sign, and didn't stop at it, and strictly he didn't have to, but drivers from other directions would have assumed he would)


******* SPOILER *******

In 2014, Dan Greding of Santa Barbara, CA, was installing a 75 minute parking time limit sign. He had already installed three other signs on the street and the final one took a little longer because he had to drill into concrete. When he looked up, a Parking Enforcement Officer was writing a ticket for parking in excess of 75 minutes.

"I didn't know what to say. I was dumbfounded," said Greding. "I said 'but I 'm putting these signs up' and he (the officer) says, 'then you should know you can't park here more than 75 minutes.' I said, 'well I haven't put the sign up yet, so you can't write me a ticket' and he said 'yea but the signs down there say - this block - so you're in violation."

When the ticket was written, Greding said the concrete had just finished drying and the pole was in place. All he had to do was tighten the screws.

Greding said he probably was there about 15 minutes too long, but he needed his truck, and the equipment in the back, such as power tools, to do the job.

He appealed the ticket, issued in February 2014, and lost. I don't know if he ever requested a review of the decision, so the question remains open.

The title references the Fifth Amendment and its protection against self-incrimination.

Thanks to all who participated.
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Re: [rcb] Pleading the Fifth (SOLVED)

Postby CoffeeBean » Thu Sep 15, 2016 2:37 pm

That was a great puzzle! It reminded me of when I was in college, all students were required to have a decal in order to park on campus. My car was in the shop so I borrowed my dad's truck. I took the decal out of the window of my car and applied it with tape to the back window of the truck. When I got out of class that day, I found a ticket on the windshield. The no-nonsense campus police cited me for improper use of the decal. I appealed to the student council (per the process) and argued that since the only stipulation was that the decal be visible on the vehicle that I should not be fined. Their response was that the complete requirement is that the decal be "affixed" to the window, and since I had taped the decal onto the window that did not count. I explained that my car was in the shop and I had to use an alternative vehicle and I didn't want to buy another decal just for 1 day, but the council (6 college kids) stuck to the policy and I had to pay the fine.
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Re: [rcb] Pleading the Fifth (SOLVED)

Postby biograd » Thu Sep 15, 2016 4:18 pm

Wow, I certainly would think there would be an exception for that, since the equipment in the truck is necessary, and also it is not a traffic safety issue. It's almost like if there were a construction zone with no parking allowed, and the construction vehicles themselves were ticketed for parking there.

As far as the decal on the college campus, I'd think that a council of college students would throw out every ticket since if it were up to them they could park anywhere they please.
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Re: [rcb] Pleading the Fifth (SOLVED)

Postby CoffeeBean » Thu Sep 15, 2016 7:32 pm

That's what I expected too, but the head of the student council was a somewhat hard-nosed kid who is now a judge in our city. Go figure.
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Re: [rcb] Pleading the Fifth (SOLVED)

Postby Twilightseeker » Thu Sep 15, 2016 11:27 pm

Nice! Great puzzle!!
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