[JenBurdoo] Into the Blue

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[JenBurdoo] Into the Blue

Postby JenBurdoo » Tue Sep 20, 2016 7:14 pm

At an order, a gun points into the sky and fires at nothing in particular. Explain.
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Into the Blue

Postby rcb » Tue Sep 20, 2016 7:23 pm

Is an execution by fire squad ongoing? The gun: a canon? A rifle?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Into the Blue

Postby WiZ » Tue Sep 20, 2016 10:35 pm

Has there been a change in plans/orders? Was the gun initially supposed to be pointed at something else? Is the gun loaded? Does the mere act of a gun being fired accomplish something?

Does the order come from someone in an official capacity? Is this a military exercise? Police/judicial?

Is something illegal or criminal afoot?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Into the Blue

Postby Twilightseeker » Tue Sep 20, 2016 11:01 pm

Is it relevant who is shooting the gun? Is it in fact being shot by a human? a HAM? a HAF? Relevant?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Into the Blue

Postby JenBurdoo » Tue Sep 20, 2016 11:08 pm

Is an execution by firing squad ongoing? No. The gun: a cannon? Possibly. DYOD. A rifle? No.

Has there been a change in plans/orders? Yes. Was the gun initially supposed to be pointed at something else? Yes. Is the gun loaded? Yes. Does the mere act of a gun being fired accomplish something? Yope.

Does the order come from someone in an official capacity? Yes. Is this a military exercise? Yes. Police/judicial?

Is something illegal or criminal afoot? No.

Is it relevant who is shooting the gun? Mildly. Is it in fact being shot by a human? Yes. a HAM? This. a HAF? Relevant? No.
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Into the Blue

Postby Twilightseeker » Tue Sep 20, 2016 11:13 pm

Is the fact that nothing else is being shot relevant? Like something/someone else was supposed to be shot, but the orders (or plans) were changed and now nothing is in fact getting shot....
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Into the Blue

Postby JenBurdoo » Wed Sep 21, 2016 2:00 am

Is the fact that nothing else is being shot relevant? I didn't say that. Like something/someone else was supposed to be shot, but the orders (or plans) were changed and now nothing is in fact getting shot.... Something along those lines, yes. Explore.
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Into the Blue

Postby Twilightseeker » Wed Sep 21, 2016 2:08 am

Is something ELSE being shot at? Sometimes visible to the shooter? Something someone knows is there? Is the shooter able to see his target? Was he going to shoot something else before?

Is the target living? Is the target a solid mass?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Into the Blue

Postby JenBurdoo » Wed Sep 21, 2016 2:45 pm

Is something ELSE being shot at? Yope. Sometimes visible to the shooter? Yes. Something someone knows is there? Yes. Is the shooter able to see his target? Irr. Was he going to shoot something else before? Yes.

Is the target living? No. Is the target a solid mass? Yope, please elaborate.
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Into the Blue

Postby rcb » Wed Sep 21, 2016 2:52 pm

Is the shot directed at the clouds?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Into the Blue

Postby JenBurdoo » Wed Sep 21, 2016 3:47 pm

Is the shot directed at the clouds? No.
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Into the Blue

Postby CoffeeBean » Wed Sep 21, 2016 3:58 pm

Is the moon the target? The sun? Another celestial object?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Into the Blue

Postby JenBurdoo » Wed Sep 21, 2016 6:21 pm

Is the moon the target? The sun? Another celestial object? No to all.
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Into the Blue

Postby CoffeeBean » Wed Sep 21, 2016 7:59 pm

Did the gun fire a projectile? Or just produce sound?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Into the Blue

Postby JenBurdoo » Wed Sep 21, 2016 8:37 pm

Did the gun fire a projectile? This. Or just produce sound? No.
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Into the Blue

Postby Twilightseeker » Wed Sep 21, 2016 9:02 pm

Is the person shooting at something they think is there but isn't? Is it an image? An optical illusion? Is it made of gas? Is it a form of light/shadow?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Into the Blue

Postby JenBurdoo » Wed Sep 21, 2016 11:06 pm

Is the person shooting at something they think is there but isn't? No, they are aware of the "target." Is it an image? An optical illusion? Is it made of gas? Is it a form of light/shadow? The "target," such as it is, is physical and in the real world.
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Into the Blue

Postby Twilightseeker » Wed Sep 21, 2016 11:42 pm

Is the "target" moving at the time of the shooting? Is it more than 100 yards away? less than? Will it actually be hit by a bullet/projectile?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Into the Blue

Postby GalFisk » Thu Sep 22, 2016 3:41 am

Is the projectile: metallic? Explosive? Deadly? Will it eventually come down? If so, relevant where? Will it damage anything relevant? Will the shot mislead anyone into thinking the first plan was carried out?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Into the Blue

Postby JenBurdoo » Thu Sep 22, 2016 4:19 am

Is the "target" moving at the time of the shooting? Yes. Is it more than 100 yards away? Yes. less than? No. Will it actually be hit by a bullet/projectile? With luck.

Is the projectile: metallic? Explosive? Deadly? All three. Will it eventually come down? If it misses. If so, relevant where? No. Will it damage anything relevant? If it hits. Will the shot mislead anyone into thinking the first plan was carried out? No.
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Into the Blue

Postby rcb » Thu Sep 22, 2016 7:37 am

Is the target an airplane? A rocket? Anyway, a man-made object?

Relevant which was the target before the new order arrived? Was it the same target?

At the time of shooting, can the operator visually spot the target (by direct observation of the sky)? Is the target acquired on a radar or some other instrument? Or maybe the operator determines the position at which the target will be by making some calculations and then fires blindly in that direction?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Into the Blue

Postby JenBurdoo » Thu Sep 22, 2016 4:41 pm

Is the target an airplane? This. A rocket? Anyway, a man-made object? Yes.

Relevant which was the target before the new order arrived? No. Was it the same target? Irr.

At the time of shooting, can the operator visually spot the target (by direct observation of the sky)? Yes. Is the target acquired on a radar or some other instrument? No. Or maybe the operator determines the position at which the target will be by making some calculations and then fires blindly in that direction? No, but OTRT. He is firing blindly.
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Into the Blue

Postby rcb » Thu Sep 22, 2016 4:54 pm

Is it firing blindly because of something related to his gun? (For example: it didn't have AA capabilities? He couldn't simultaneously observe the target and aim his gun?)

Is weather relevant? Relevant where the gun was located (on land? On a ship?)
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Into the Blue

Postby JenBurdoo » Thu Sep 22, 2016 5:02 pm

Is it firing blindly because of something related to his gun? No. (For example: it didn't have AA capabilities? He couldn't simultaneously observe the target and aim his gun?) The latter might be mildly relevant.

Is weather relevant? No. Relevant where the gun was located Yes. (on land? This. On a ship?)
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Into the Blue

Postby rcb » Thu Sep 22, 2016 5:24 pm

Is this a real war time situation? If yes, are the shooter and the plane enemies?

Was the order to fire blindly in the sky?

Did something obstruct his line of sight just before firing?

Are optical illusions relevant? Is the time of day relevant?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Into the Blue

Postby JenBurdoo » Thu Sep 22, 2016 6:27 pm

Is this a real war time situation? If yes, are the shooter and the plane enemies? Yes to both.

Was the order to fire blindly in the sky? No.

Did something obstruct his line of sight just before firing? No.

Are optical illusions relevant? Is the time of day relevant? No to both.
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Into the Blue

Postby Twilightseeker » Thu Sep 22, 2016 10:41 pm

Is the shooter determining the placement of the plane via sound/listening? Is the shooter actually blind/unable to see? Does he close his eyes before shooting for some reason? Does the plane pass behind clouds or some other obstruction to his vision?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Into the Blue

Postby JenBurdoo » Fri Sep 23, 2016 2:08 pm

Is the shooter determining the placement of the plane via sound/listening? Is the shooter actually blind/unable to see? Does he close his eyes before shooting for some reason? Does the plane pass behind clouds or some other obstruction to his vision? No to all/irrelevant. I suggest you work out the general situation.
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Into the Blue

Postby JenBurdoo » Tue Sep 27, 2016 2:54 pm

Hint: They are not the only gun crew doing this.
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Into the Blue

Postby CoffeeBean » Tue Sep 27, 2016 2:57 pm

Are any weapons being tested? Checked for accuracy of aiming?
Is it relevant or helpful to know how many people are operating the primary weapon? Are other weapons being fired as well?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Into the Blue

Postby JenBurdoo » Tue Sep 27, 2016 3:47 pm

Are any weapons being tested? Checked for accuracy of aiming? No to both.
Is it relevant or helpful to know how many people are operating the primary weapon? Mildly - these are "heavy" guns with crews of five to ten. Are other weapons being fired as well? Yes.
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Into the Blue

Postby GalFisk » Tue Sep 27, 2016 9:22 pm

Is this gun meant for hitting airplanes? Is the chance of hitting anything low? Are the shots fired in desperation? Are they fired at one airplane? A few? An overwhelming number? If they're not meant to hit flying objects, are they meant to hit objects on land? At sea? Are they stationary? Movable? Mobile/self-propelled? Are they threatened by destruction? Invasion?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Into the Blue

Postby JenBurdoo » Wed Sep 28, 2016 1:09 am

Is this gun meant for hitting airplanes? Yes. Is the chance of hitting anything low? Yes. Are the shots fired in desperation? Not exactly. Are they fired at one airplane? A few? An overwhelming number? This. If they're not meant to hit flying objects, are they meant to hit objects on land? At sea? Are they stationary? Movable? Mobile/self-propelled? All irrelevant. Are they threatened by destruction? Invasion? This.
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Into the Blue

Postby GalFisk » Wed Sep 28, 2016 4:18 am

Is the chance of hitting anything low because of: high planes? Fast planes? Darkness? Low/no visibility? Are they firing in order to destroy the planes? Make the go somwhere else? In order to defend a specific place? Defend anything they can? Do they fire because not firing would be seen as treason? Because there is still a small chance they will hit something? Friendly aircraft relevant? Are the enemy planes: fighters? Bombers? Gliders? Paratrooper jump planes? Transports? Flying fortresses? Spy planes? Everything? D day relevant? London blitz?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Into the Blue

Postby JenBurdoo » Wed Sep 28, 2016 6:18 am

Is the chance of hitting anything low because of: high planes? Fast planes? Darkness? Low/no visibility? The last three are possibilities, but there are others. Are they firing in order to destroy the planes? With luck. Make them go somewhere else? May have this effect. In order to defend a specific place? This. Defend anything they can? Do they fire because not firing would be seen as treason? No. Because there is still a small chance they will hit something? Part of the reason. Friendly aircraft relevant? No. Are the enemy planes: fighters? Bombers? This. Gliders? Paratrooper jump planes? Transports? Flying fortresses? Spy planes? Everything? D day relevant? No. London blitz? No. Although this is set in WWII.
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Into the Blue

Postby rcb » Wed Sep 28, 2016 7:48 am

Relevant what kind of projectiles they use? Where is the battery located? Do we need to determine what were the reasons for which the guns had low chance of hitting the planes?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Into the Blue

Postby GalFisk » Wed Sep 28, 2016 11:50 am

Are the planes flying in a way that makes them hard to hit? Are they flying low? Are targeting functions jammed or destroyed? Is targeting information unavailable? Can the projectiles be set to explode at a certain altitude? After a certain time? When near aircraft? Are the bombers allied? Axis? Are the gunners allied? Axis?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Into the Blue

Postby JenBurdoo » Wed Sep 28, 2016 5:55 pm

Relevant what kind of projectiles they use? No. Where is the battery located? Yes. Do we need to determine what were the reasons for which the guns had low chance of hitting the planes? The main reason is part of the puzzle statement.

Are the planes flying in a way that makes them hard to hit? Possibly. Are they flying low? Yes. Are targeting functions jammed or destroyed? No. Is targeting information unavailable? Irr. Can the projectiles be set to explode at a certain altitude? Yes. After a certain time? Yes. When near aircraft? Irr. Are the bombers allied? Axis? This. Are the gunners allied? This. Axis?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Into the Blue

Postby CoffeeBean » Wed Sep 28, 2016 7:11 pm

Are the relevant events of the puzzle happening during the day? Night? Does time of day or night matter?
Is visibility or lack of it relevant? Were the planes visible to the gunners? Could the gunners hear the planes? Or was there just a suspicion that planes were overhead?
Were the guns fired with the goal of hitting, disabling or destroying enemy planes? To cause planes to avoid a certain area?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Into the Blue

Postby JenBurdoo » Thu Sep 29, 2016 2:12 am

Are the relevant events of the puzzle happening during the day? Night? Irrelevant. Does time of day or night matter? No.
Is visibility or lack of it relevant? No. Were the planes visible to the gunners? Irr. Could the gunners hear the planes? Yes. Or was there just a suspicion that planes were overhead? No.
Were the guns fired with the goal of hitting, disabling or destroying enemy planes? Yes. To cause planes to avoid a certain area? This could also result.
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Into the Blue

Postby GalFisk » Thu Sep 29, 2016 4:01 am

Is the battery: on a coast? In a city? On a height? Slope? In a valley? Near a lake? Is it firing at planes moving towards it? Perpendicular to it? Away from it? In all firections? Are there any friendly planes in the air? Has there been? Will there be? Is the order to fire given as soom as the presence of the planes becomes known?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Into the Blue

Postby JenBurdoo » Thu Sep 29, 2016 4:29 am

Is the battery: on a coast? Yes. In a city? Yes. On a height? No. Slope? No. In a valley? No. Near a lake? No. Is it firing at planes moving towards it? Perpendicular to it? Away from it? In all directions? Any will do. Are there any friendly planes in the air? No. Has there been? Will there be? Yes to both. Is the order to fire given as soon as the presence of the planes becomes known? No.
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Into the Blue

Postby GalFisk » Thu Sep 29, 2016 4:37 am

Is the order given when no friendly planes are in the air? Did the friendly planes who were in the air earlier: leave? Land? Crash? Get destroyed? We're they fighter planes? Are any enemy fighters present? Do the guns provide covering fire? Create confusion? Are they effective even if they rarely hit? Are the enemy planes relevantly: scattered? Flying in formation? Making bombing runs? Heading somewhere else? Attempting to destroy the batteries? Are the batteries defending a specific target?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Into the Blue

Postby JenBurdoo » Thu Sep 29, 2016 5:58 am

Is the order given when no friendly planes are in the air? Yes. Did the friendly planes who were in the air earlier: leave? Land? Crash? Get destroyed? Any of these are possible. Were they fighter planes? Yes. Are any enemy fighters present? Irr. Do the guns provide covering fire? No. Create confusion? Doubtlessly, but this is not their prime function. Are they effective even if they rarely hit? Yope. Explore. Are the enemy planes relevantly: scattered? Probably. Flying in formation? Possibly. Making bombing runs? Yes. Heading somewhere else? No. Attempting to destroy the batteries? Irr. Are the batteries defending a specific target? Yes.
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Into the Blue

Postby rcb » Thu Sep 29, 2016 6:29 am

Did the batteries lack sufficient firepower to overcome the incoming attacks? By randomly exploding shells in the air, do they want to suggest to the enemy pilots that a larger AA force is firing at them than it is the case? Before the order was given, were the guns silent? Do they try to explode their shells above a less significant target (such as the sea), thereby directing the bombers to concentrate their efforts in a military insignificant area thus sparing the real target? The target the guns are trying to protect: ships? A shipyard? A town? A military installation?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Into the Blue

Postby JenBurdoo » Fri Sep 30, 2016 9:10 pm

Did the batteries lack sufficient firepower to overcome the incoming attacks? Yes, but arguably irrelevant. By randomly exploding shells in the air, do they want to suggest to the enemy pilots that a larger AA force is firing at them than it is the case? No, and FA. Before the order was given, were the guns silent? Assume no. Do they try to explode their shells above a less significant target (such as the sea), thereby directing the bombers to concentrate their efforts in a military insignificant area thus sparing the real target? No, and FA. The target the guns are trying to protect: ships? A shipyard? A town? A military installation? All of these, actually.
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Into the Blue

Postby GalFisk » Sat Oct 01, 2016 5:26 am

Do they do something relevant after firing randomly? Is the random firing some sort of trick or ruse? Is it just the best they can do under the circumstances? The only thing they can do?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Into the Blue

Postby JenBurdoo » Sat Oct 01, 2016 12:26 pm

Do they do something relevant after firing randomly? Is the random firing some sort of trick or ruse? Is it just the best they can do under the circumstances? The only thing they can do? A false assumption underlies all of these.
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Into the Blue

Postby rcb » Sat Oct 01, 2016 12:31 pm

Do they actually try to hit any plane?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Into the Blue

Postby JenBurdoo » Sat Oct 01, 2016 2:18 pm

Do they actually try to hit any plane? Yope, leaning towards yes. Explore!
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Into the Blue

Postby rcb » Sun Oct 02, 2016 7:58 pm

Trying to explore: Were there more than one gun firing? Similar type of guns? Is their number relevant?

When the guns fired, were there any planes in the sky? If so, enemy planes? Also: if there were some bombers, were they en route to a bombing mission? Were they returning from one?

Was there some previous agreement between the opposite forces ("we pretend to bomb you, you pretend to attack us")? At least is this line of thought OTRT?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Into the Blue

Postby JenBurdoo » Mon Oct 03, 2016 2:59 am

Trying to explore: Were there more than one gun firing? Yes. Similar type of guns? A wide range, but for the puzzle's purpose you may assume so. Is their number relevant? Not the specific number, but it's relevant that there are a lot of them.

When the guns fired, were there any planes in the sky? Yes. If so, enemy planes? Yes. Also: if there were some bombers, were they en route to a bombing mission? Yes. Were they returning from one? No.

Was there some previous agreement between the opposite forces ("we pretend to bomb you, you pretend to attack us")? No. At least is this line of thought OTRT? Definitely not.
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Into the Blue

Postby GalFisk » Mon Oct 03, 2016 7:37 am

Are there planes everywhere? Relevant why they fire at nothing in particular rather than directly at planes? Aiming tools/procedures relevant? Are they doing the best they can? Are they purposefully not doing the best they can? Is visibility impaired? Is it foggy?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Into the Blue

Postby rcb » Mon Oct 03, 2016 2:19 pm

Is the FA that they are firing randomly? The shells that they are firing- are they capable of damaging the planes of the type used by the enemy? Did all the relevant guns receive the same order? Was the order worded in the sense: "Aim your guns at the sky and begin shooting"? Or it was something impossible to do for the crews and the result was that they were firing blindly? Was any plane taken down by the relevant guns?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Into the Blue

Postby JenBurdoo » Mon Oct 03, 2016 4:47 pm

Are there planes everywhere? Yes. Relevant why they fire at nothing in particular rather than directly at planes? Yes. Aiming tools/procedures relevant? Yes, in a general sense. Are they doing the best they can? Yes. Are they purposefully not doing the best they can? No. Is visibility impaired? Irr. Is it foggy? Irr.

Is the FA that they are firing randomly? Yes! The shells that they are firing- are they capable of damaging the planes of the type used by the enemy? Yes. Did all the relevant guns receive the same order? Yes. Was the order worded in the sense: "Aim your guns at the sky and begin shooting"? It was actually a shorthand instruction, but this was the basic meaning. Or it was something impossible to do for the crews and the result was that they were firing blindly? No. Was any plane taken down by the relevant guns? Assume yes.
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Into the Blue

Postby GalFisk » Mon Oct 03, 2016 5:39 pm

Are they overwhelmed? Do aiming tools/procedures rely on planes flying in a different way than what they're doing? Are the enemy planes purposefully making it harder for the guns to fire at them?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Into the Blue

Postby JenBurdoo » Tue Oct 04, 2016 1:33 am

Are they overwhelmed? Assume yes. Do aiming tools/procedures rely on planes flying in a different way than what they're doing? No. Are the enemy planes purposefully making it harder for the guns to fire at them? Assume yes.
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Into the Blue

Postby JenBurdoo » Fri Oct 07, 2016 7:26 pm

Recap/hint: This occurred in Malta during WWII, when the island was heavily bombed by Axis warplanes for over two years. The gunners were NOT firing blindly or randomly, but the order was addressed to all guns on the island, whenever the air defense appeared to be overwhelmed. There is an important unspoken element to the order that has not yet been explored.
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Into the Blue

Postby Padoo » Wed Oct 12, 2016 12:09 pm

Are the guns aiming towards the trajectory between the planes and the ground, so that the enemy planes' bombs explode while they're still in the air?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Into the Blue

Postby JenBurdoo » Wed Oct 12, 2016 2:32 pm

Are the guns aiming towards the trajectory between the planes and the ground, so that the enemy planes' bombs explode while they're still in the air? No.
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Into the Blue

Postby GalFisk » Wed Oct 12, 2016 5:29 pm

Are the guns hoping to hit something other than planes? Do shots that don't hit anything have any benefit? Is the enemy's reaction to the shooting relevant? Before the order, was there: no shooting? Less shooting? Shooting in a different manner? WAG: were damaged guns that could not be properly aimed, but could still safely shoot, put to use?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Into the Blue

Postby JenBurdoo » Wed Oct 12, 2016 7:31 pm

Are the guns hoping to hit something other than planes? No. Do shots that don't hit anything have any benefit? Mildly. Is the enemy's reaction to the shooting relevant? Mildly. Before the order, was there: no shooting? Less shooting? Shooting in a different manner? This. WAG: were damaged guns that could not be properly aimed, but could still safely shoot, put to use? No.
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Into the Blue

Postby CoffeeBean » Thu Oct 13, 2016 2:15 pm

Is every available gun being fired? Only some of them? By trained personnel? By military personnel? Non-military persons or civilians?
is the noise of the firing guns relevant? The muzzle flash? The act of sending some kind of projectile into the air?
Was a different order given at the onset of firing these guns? Or an assumed order or directive?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Into the Blue

Postby JenBurdoo » Fri Oct 14, 2016 1:50 am

Is every available gun being fired? Yes. Only some of them? By trained personnel? Yes. By military personnel? Yes. Non-military persons or civilians? No.
is the noise of the firing guns relevant? The muzzle flash? The act of sending some kind of projectile into the air? This, none of the others.
Was a different order given at the onset of firing these guns? No. Or an assumed order or directive? Yes.
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Into the Blue

Postby LemonCurry » Fri Oct 14, 2016 10:08 am

Are the anti-aircraft guns supposed to defend a third party against the airplanes? Are they betraying them?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Into the Blue

Postby GalFisk » Fri Oct 14, 2016 1:39 pm

Do the projectiles that don't hit anything explode? Fall down? Do those projectiles produce relevant: smoke clouds? Light? Noise? Shrapnel? Smoke trails? Ground impacts? Water impacts? Do they obscure the enemy's view of something? Do they make it harder for the enemy to destroy something relevant? To find out where the fire is coming from?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Into the Blue

Postby JenBurdoo » Fri Oct 14, 2016 6:42 pm

Are the anti-aircraft guns supposed to defend a third party against the airplanes? Yes, see recap. Are they betraying them? No.

Do the projectiles that don't hit anything explode? Assume this. Fall down? Do those projectiles produce relevant: smoke clouds? Light? Noise? Shrapnel? Assume this. Smoke trails? Ground impacts? Water impacts? All others irrelevant. Do they obscure the enemy's view of something? No. Do they make it harder for the enemy to destroy something relevant? Yes. To find out where the fire is coming from? No.
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Into the Blue

Postby GalFisk » Fri Oct 14, 2016 7:14 pm

Is it harder to destroy because: it's harder to see? To distinguish from other things? Harder to aim at? Harder to drop bombs in a predictable trajectory? Harder to get the bombs to go off correctly when they hit? Is the target stationary? Is it populated? Is it industrial? Military? Relevant? Does this firing technique make stuff more difficult to hit in general? Are the enemy planes regular bombers? Divebombers? Relevant?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Into the Blue

Postby CoffeeBean » Fri Oct 14, 2016 7:56 pm

Does the firing of the guns create a "no-fly" area where enemy planes will avoid? Does it cause the enemy planes to alter their course? To fly towards an area where they will be easy targets for friendly planes?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Into the Blue

Postby JenBurdoo » Fri Oct 14, 2016 11:51 pm

Is it harder to destroy because: it's harder to see? To distinguish from other things? Harder to aim at? Harder to drop bombs in a predictable trajectory? Harder to get the bombs to go off correctly when they hit? None of these, arguably. Possible FA. Is the target stationary? Is it populated? Is it industrial? Military? Relevant? All of the above; the target is the Grand Harbour in Valetta, Malta. Does this firing technique make stuff more difficult to hit in general? Arguably. Are the enemy planes regular bombers? Divebombers? Relevant? No.

Does the firing of the guns create a "no-fly" area where enemy planes will avoid? Possibly, depending on circumstances. Does it cause the enemy planes to alter their course? Irr. To fly towards an area where they will be easy targets for friendly planes? No.
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Into the Blue

Postby JenBurdoo » Mon Oct 17, 2016 12:15 am

Edit:

Does the firing of the guns create a "no-fly" area where enemy planes will avoid? Yes, but explore.

Getting close to solution, BTW.
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Into the Blue

Postby Balin » Mon Oct 17, 2016 3:09 am

Is the intent of the firing to force enemy planes to fly to a certain area? Where they will be more vulnerable?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Into the Blue

Postby JenBurdoo » Mon Oct 17, 2016 4:57 am

Is the intent of the firing to force enemy planes to fly to a certain area? Where they will be more vulnerable? No to both, and false assumption.
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Into the Blue

Postby CoffeeBean » Tue Oct 18, 2016 2:38 pm

Do the gun operators know for sure that enemy planes are approaching their area? Or that planes are above their area? Do they know exactly where enemy planes are? Or a general area where they may be?
Are weather conditions relevant? Time of day?
Are the planes using radar? Relevant? Are the people firing the guns using radar? Binoculars? Another tracking method? Eyesight only?

We are assuming, I think, that enemy planes are approaching the area where the guns are located. Is this correct?
The target is a harbor in Malta, so are the guns at that same location? Elsewhere on the island? Not on the island at all?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Into the Blue

Postby LemonCurry » Tue Oct 18, 2016 2:43 pm

Were the enemy planes fake? unarmed? were they attacking an unimportant area of the Harbor? Would a crashed airplane do more damage to the Harbor than the bombs?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Into the Blue

Postby JenBurdoo » Wed Oct 19, 2016 3:10 am

Do the gun operators know for sure that enemy planes are approaching their area? Or that planes are above their area? This. Do they know exactly where enemy planes are? Irr. Or a general area where they may be? Assume this.
Are weather conditions relevant? Time of day? No to both.
Are the planes using radar? Relevant? No to both. Are the people firing the guns using radar? Binoculars? Another tracking method? Eyesight only? No to all.

We are assuming, I think, that enemy planes are approaching the area where the guns are located. Is this correct? Yope.
The target is a harbor in Malta, so are the guns at that same location? Elsewhere on the island? Pretty much all over the island (it's small). Not on the island at all? It's possible, but unlikely, that a ship near the island or in the harbor would follow this specific order or be able to.

Were the enemy planes fake? unarmed? were they attacking an unimportant area of the Harbor? Would a crashed airplane do more damage to the Harbor than the bombs? No to all.
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Into the Blue

Postby rcb » Thu Oct 20, 2016 6:18 am

Were the planes supposed to take a "shortest path" in order to attack / retreat from the target? (maybe because of fuel availability) And by firing blindly in that path, the defenders forced the attacking force to choose a longer, different path?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Into the Blue

Postby JenBurdoo » Thu Oct 20, 2016 7:43 pm

Were the planes supposed to take a "shortest path" in order to attack / retreat from the target? (maybe because of fuel availability) Not necessarily. And by firing blindly in that path, the defenders forced the attacking force to choose a longer, different path? You're on the right track, but no. Also, they are not necessarily firing blindly.
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Into the Blue

Postby JenBurdoo » Thu Oct 20, 2016 7:51 pm

Hint: The defenders are unconcerned whether they manage to shoot down or drive off attacking planes -- either result would be acceptable.
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Into the Blue

Postby GalFisk » Thu Oct 20, 2016 8:13 pm

Do they switch from trying to hit planes, into concentrating fire in areas they want planes to stay away from?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Into the Blue

Postby JenBurdoo » Fri Oct 21, 2016 1:09 am

Do they switch from trying to hit planes, Yes, directly at least. into concentrating fire in areas they want planes to stay away from? Yesish; they're technically already doing that.
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Into the Blue

Postby GalFisk » Fri Oct 21, 2016 3:57 pm

Do they concentrate fire in one place? A few places? Lots of places? A pattern? Purposefully avoiding making any pattern?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Into the Blue

Postby JenBurdoo » Fri Oct 21, 2016 5:51 pm

Do they concentrate fire in one place? Yesish. A few places? Lots of places? For SVV of "places." A pattern? Yesish. Purposefully avoiding making any pattern? Definitely not.

The ish is because both Yesish answers are arguably true at once.
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Into the Blue

Postby JenBurdoo » Tue Oct 25, 2016 10:26 am

Hint: The gunners were aiming, but not at airplanes.
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Into the Blue

Postby LemonCurry » Tue Oct 25, 2016 10:56 am

Were they aiming at each other? Did they want the projectiles to collide?
Were they aiming at the clouds? In order to cause a thunderstorm or such (is this possible?)
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Into the Blue

Postby JenBurdoo » Tue Oct 25, 2016 8:24 pm

Were they aiming at each other? Did they want the projectiles to collide?
Were they aiming at the clouds? In order to cause a thunderstorm or such (is this possible?) No to all.
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Into the Blue

Postby CoffeeBean » Thu Oct 27, 2016 3:00 pm

Were the gunners aiming at anything specific? Something imaginary? Some physical object(s)?
Was someone throwing or somehow launching objects into the air for the gunners to aim at? Like skeet shooting on a larger scale?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Into the Blue

Postby GalFisk » Thu Oct 27, 2016 3:11 pm

Were they creating artificial Clouds of smoke? Writing or painting something in the sky? Cover certain areas with intense fire? Aim all guns at the same location? Aim all guns at a moving location? Create an area of intense fire, and sweep this around the sky?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Into the Blue

Postby JenBurdoo » Thu Oct 27, 2016 4:39 pm

Were the gunners aiming at anything specific? Yes, for SVV of "anything." Something imaginary? No, with a slight ish. Some physical object(s)? No.
Was someone throwing or somehow launching objects into the air for the gunners to aim at? Like skeet shooting on a larger scale? No.

Were they creating artificial clouds of smoke? Writing or painting something in the sky? No to both. Cover certain areas with intense fire? YES. Aim all guns at the same location? Not the exact same location, no. Aim all guns at a moving location? No. Create an area of intense fire, and sweep this around the sky? No.

Almost done.
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Into the Blue

Postby LemonCurry » Tue Nov 01, 2016 9:01 pm

Did the gunners intend to create turbulences/irregular wind flow?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Into the Blue

Postby GalFisk » Tue Nov 01, 2016 9:53 pm

Did they try to "herd" the enemy planes?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Into the Blue

Postby JenBurdoo » Wed Nov 02, 2016 10:29 am

Did the gunners intend to create turbulences/irregular wind flow? No.

Did they try to "herd" the enemy planes? No, though it may have been an unintentional result.
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Into the Blue

Postby CoffeeBean » Wed Nov 02, 2016 2:25 pm

Were the guns all fired at the same time? At planned intervals? At the will of the individual operators?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Into the Blue

Postby GalFisk » Wed Nov 02, 2016 6:26 pm

Were the areas of intens fire in the form of: spots? Bands? Circles? Squares? Did they have a relevant three-dimensional shape? Were they at the same altitude as the planes? Above? Below? Were the enemy planes at a common altitude? Diverse altitudes? Relevant?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Into the Blue

Postby JenBurdoo » Thu Nov 03, 2016 4:22 am

Were the guns all fired at the same time? Yes. At planned intervals? No. At the will of the individual operators? The operators weren't choosing when to fire, they were following a specific order to do so.

Were the areas of intense fire in the form of: spots? Bands? Circles? Squares? Did they have a relevant three-dimensional shape? Possibly; assume a box or hemisphere. Were they at the same altitude as the planes? Yes. Above? Below? Were the enemy planes at a common altitude? Diverse altitudes? Probably this. Relevant? No.

This is quite close to solution; you may simply be thinking too hard. Hint: Every gun on the island was following the same order, but the order was tailored slightly for each gun.
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Into the Blue

Postby CoffeeBean » Fri Nov 04, 2016 2:36 pm

Firing in a certain pattern?
The guns were at the same altitude as the planes? So they were on elevated platforms? Or on a mountain?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Into the Blue

Postby JenBurdoo » Sun Nov 06, 2016 11:53 pm

Firing in a certain pattern? I guess you could call it that...
The guns were at the same altitude as the planes? So they were on elevated platforms? Or on a mountain? No to all. I may have misread the question, I assumed it asked if the gunfire was directed at the same altitude as the planes, not that the guns were at that altitude.
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Into the Blue

Postby rcb » Thu Nov 10, 2016 10:49 am

You said: "Every gun on the island was following the same order, but the order was tailored slightly for each gun." Were they asked to fire at a specific target, visible to all, but due to different positioning of the guns, they each had to aim a bit differently from the other ones? (as in: all concentrate your fire in the direction of the moon! or the light from a lighthouse?).
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Into the Blue

Postby JenBurdoo » Thu Nov 10, 2016 2:03 pm

You said: "Every gun on the island was following the same order, but the order was tailored slightly for each gun." Were they asked to fire at a specific target, visible to all, Yes. but due to different positioning of the guns, No. they each had to aim a bit differently from the other ones? Yes. (as in: all concentrate your fire in the direction of the moon! or the light from a lighthouse?). No. If it were as you state, the order wouldn't have needed tailoring - gunners wouldn't have to be told to aim slightly differently than the gun next to them if aiming at the same target.

Every gun crew was given very specific instructions, even though they were all firing at the same general target. At a general order, they all followed their specific instructions.
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Into the Blue

Postby LemonCurry » Thu Nov 10, 2016 2:21 pm

Was the gunfire spelling out a message?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Into the Blue

Postby JenBurdoo » Thu Nov 10, 2016 4:39 pm

Was the gunfire spelling out a message? No, that would have been a waste of shells in a besieged garrison. Though I'm sure the Axis pilots saw the unwritten message of "Hey Mussolini and Hitler - eat this!"
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Into the Blue

Postby Balin » Fri Nov 11, 2016 2:19 pm

Were they trying to obscure the sky enough that anyone trying to escape might crash?

Unrelated: before this comment, according to the front page, this puzzle had 100 posts (excluding the puzzle statement) and 1000 views.
jenpuzzlestats.jpg
jenpuzzlestats.jpg (20.37 KiB) Viewed 3754 times
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Into the Blue

Postby CoffeeBean » Fri Nov 11, 2016 4:47 pm

Were the guns aiming at crew members who were parachuting out of the enemy planes?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Into the Blue

Postby JenBurdoo » Fri Nov 11, 2016 7:34 pm

Were they trying to obscure the sky enough that anyone trying to escape might crash?

Were the guns aiming at crew members who were parachuting out of the enemy planes?

No to both. Much simpler.
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Into the Blue

Postby GalFisk » Sat Nov 12, 2016 6:25 pm

Were they aiming at something they could see? Something the enemy could see? Were the tailored orders something similar to "aim x degrees y of point z"?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Into the Blue

Postby JenBurdoo » Sat Nov 12, 2016 7:41 pm

Were they aiming at something they could see? Irr. Something the enemy could see? Irr. Were the tailored orders something similar to "aim x degrees y of point z"? Yes.
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Into the Blue

Postby GalFisk » Sat Nov 12, 2016 8:01 pm

Is point z above the island? Out at sea? At a certain altitude? Features of the surrounding landscape relevant? Any mountain(s)? Y: above? Below? Right? Left? Different for different guns?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Into the Blue

Postby JenBurdoo » Mon Nov 14, 2016 1:16 am

Is point z above the island? If there were a point z, it would be over the harbor and at relatively low altitude. Out at sea? No. At a certain altitude? No, though probably not especially high or low. Features of the surrounding landscape relevant? No. Any mountain(s)? No. Y: above? Below? Right? Left? All or any of these. Different for different guns? Yes.
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Into the Blue

Postby GalFisk » Mon Nov 14, 2016 4:33 am

Relevant what the enemy experiences when the firing mode is changed into this one? Is it meant to incite fear? Display defiancy? Be patriotic? Protect the harbor?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Into the Blue

Postby JenBurdoo » Tue Nov 15, 2016 1:47 am

Relevant what the enemy experiences when the firing mode is changed into this one? Yes. Is it meant to incite fear? Display defiancy? Be patriotic? Protect the harbor? This.
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Into the Blue

Postby GalFisk » Tue Nov 15, 2016 5:35 am

Do everyone above the harbor suddenly experience much more intense fire? Do others experience less fire? No fire? Are they scared of going near the harbor? Are they chased away from the harbor? Do they have to resort to bombing lower value targets?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Into the Blue

Postby JenBurdoo » Tue Nov 15, 2016 3:58 pm

Do everyone above the harbor suddenly experience much more intense fire? Yes. Do others experience less fire? No fire? This. Are they scared of going near the harbor? Are they chased away from the harbor? Do they have to resort to bombing lower value targets? All else irrelevant.
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Into the Blue

Postby GalFisk » Tue Nov 15, 2016 5:48 pm

Relevant enemy experience: all of them? Only those above the harbor? Only those not above the harbor? Do those above the harbor experience that the enemy has previously been holding back on their anti-air fire?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Into the Blue

Postby JenBurdoo » Thu Nov 17, 2016 6:04 am

Relevant enemy experience: all of them? Only those above the harbor? This. Only those not above the harbor? Do those above the harbor experience that the enemy has previously been holding back on their anti-air fire? It hasn't been held back, but if you can tell what happens at this point, you'll have solved the puzzle.
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Into the Blue

Postby GalFisk » Thu Nov 17, 2016 7:53 pm

Do they experience fear? Terror? Confusion? Difficulties? Death? Do they scatter? Go away? Land? Parachute out from the planes?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Into the Blue

Postby JenBurdoo » Thu Nov 17, 2016 8:50 pm

Do they experience fear? Terror? Confusion? Difficulties? Death? Do they scatter? Go away? Land? Parachute out from the planes? Any and all of these are possible, but why? What are the gunners doing that can cause this?

Or, more simply, what is the state of the sky over the harbor at this point?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Into the Blue

Postby GalFisk » Thu Nov 17, 2016 10:07 pm

Explody?
Black?
Do the explosions and smoke blot out the sun? Turn the night into day? Resemble a thunderstorm?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Into the Blue

Postby JenBurdoo » Sun Nov 20, 2016 3:41 pm

Explody? Yes.
Black?
Do the explosions and smoke blot out the sun? Turn the night into day? Resemble a thunderstorm? Yes to all, I expect.



Spoiler, as described by TVTropes:


"During the Siege of Malta in WW2, the air defence of the Grand Harbour in Valetta needed beefing up. So every heavy AA gun on the whole island was sent a range, elevation and azimuth that would allow it to put an airburst round in a certain point of Grand Harbour's airspace. During a raid, if they received the signal 'Grand Harbour Barrage', they would immediately stop what they were doing, switch to the pre-set coordinates, and unload as many rounds as they could until told to stop. For the German and Italian bombers, it was yet another case of it being not so much the bullet with your name on it, more the nine hundred and ninety-nine addressed 'To Whom It May Concern'."
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