[CoffeeBean] Pulp Friction

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[CoffeeBean] Pulp Friction

Postby CoffeeBean » Mon Oct 31, 2016 7:42 pm

A few people have discovered that by not immediately recycling newspapers they can expose a huge flaw in certain American advertising campaigns. Can you figure out what it is?

You don't have to be from America or even live there to figure this out. This type of advertising, while maybe not as common, is visible to people from many parts of the world.
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Pulp Friction

Postby Twilightseeker » Mon Oct 31, 2016 7:56 pm

Type of advertising: in the newspaper? On TV? Signs/billboards? Online?

By not recycling immediately: do the people look at the papers longer? Notice something about them? Would this work with other recyclable materials, like say bottles?
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Pulp Friction

Postby CoffeeBean » Mon Oct 31, 2016 8:19 pm

Type of advertising: in the newspaper? I've never seen it in newspapers, so probably not On TV? Signs/billboards? Both possible, yes
Online? Yes, this is the most common place it is seen

By not recycling immediately: do the people look at the papers longer? Not relevant Notice something about them? No
Would this work with other recyclable materials, like say bottles? No, it wouldn't
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Pulp Friction

Postby GalFisk » Mon Oct 31, 2016 8:27 pm

Is the text in the newspapers relevant? The pictures? Any ads? The paper used? Not immediately recycling = keeping them in a bag? On a table? Would the puzzle work if they were not immediately burned instead of not immediately recycled? Not immediately: days? Weeks? Months? Years?
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Pulp Friction

Postby CoffeeBean » Mon Oct 31, 2016 8:32 pm

Is the text in the newspapers relevant? Only one specific part of it
The pictures? Yes, but to a secondary degree compared to the text
Any ads? The paper used? Neither of these matter
Not immediately recycling = keeping them in a bag? On a table? Sure, or any place
Would the puzzle work if they were not immediately burned instead of not immediately recycled? Sure
Not immediately: days? Weeks? Almost always in this range, yes Months? Years? No, never this long
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Pulp Friction

Postby GalFisk » Mon Oct 31, 2016 8:35 pm

Headlines? Page numbers? Small print? The front page? Does the advertising claim something that the old papers prove to be false? Is calling something "so last week" relevant?
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Pulp Friction

Postby CoffeeBean » Mon Oct 31, 2016 8:45 pm

Headlines? Page numbers? Small print? All of this would be only secondary
The front page? This itself is also secondary, but a feature of the front page is most relevant
Does the advertising claim something that the old papers prove to be false? No, any advertising would be mostly irrelevant
Is calling something "so last week" relevant? No
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Pulp Friction

Postby Grip » Mon Oct 31, 2016 8:46 pm

Is there a play on words involved here?
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Pulp Friction

Postby GalFisk » Mon Oct 31, 2016 8:47 pm

Weather forecast relevant? Is this thing on all normal newspaper front pages? Relevant for how long the ad campaigns run?
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Pulp Friction

Postby CoffeeBean » Mon Oct 31, 2016 8:52 pm

Is there a play on words involved here? No
Weather forecast relevant? No
Is this thing on all normal newspaper front pages? Yes, every single newspaper front page has this on it
Relevant for how long the ad campaigns run? No, these types of campaigns have run for several years and will probably always be running
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Pulp Friction

Postby GalFisk » Mon Oct 31, 2016 8:55 pm

Newspaper logo relevant? Name? The date it was issued?
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Pulp Friction

Postby CoffeeBean » Mon Oct 31, 2016 8:56 pm

Newspaper logo relevant? Name? The date it was issued? <--- THIS
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Pulp Friction

Postby Grip » Mon Oct 31, 2016 9:01 pm

Is the flaw the message of the advertising? claims in the advertising? a flaw in the nature of the advertising itself?
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Pulp Friction

Postby Twilightseeker » Mon Oct 31, 2016 9:11 pm

Did people's keeping their newspapers make them pay more attention to the date (somehow) than they would have otherwise?
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Pulp Friction

Postby CoffeeBean » Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:20 pm

Is the flaw the message of the advertising? claims in the advertising? a flaw in the nature of the advertising itself?
All of these are included. I'd explore the issue of the claims in the ads.

Did people's keeping their newspapers make them pay more attention to the date (somehow) than they would have otherwise? No
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Pulp Friction

Postby Grip » Tue Nov 01, 2016 3:28 pm

The claims have to do with paper? newspapers? is the claim that something else is better than newspapers?
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Pulp Friction

Postby CoffeeBean » Tue Nov 01, 2016 3:36 pm

The claims have to do with paper? No newspapers? No, not directly. The paper's role in the claim is relevant though.
is the claim that something else is better than newspapers? No
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Pulp Friction

Postby Grip » Tue Nov 01, 2016 3:40 pm

Is the claim have to do with online vs physical print? that online is forever and print eventually fades?
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Pulp Friction

Postby CoffeeBean » Tue Nov 01, 2016 3:54 pm

Is the claim have to do with online vs physical print? that online is forever and print eventually fades? None of this is relevant. Keep in mind that the newspaper is only a secondary issue. The flaw has been exposed without the inclusion of a newspaper as well.
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Pulp Friction

Postby Grip » Tue Nov 01, 2016 4:00 pm

Are the ads for computers? a service? products? food?

you said something on the front page of papers is relevant and it's the date? if so, do you need more than one paper to find the flaw? or can it be found by not recycling just one paper?
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Pulp Friction

Postby CoffeeBean » Tue Nov 01, 2016 4:04 pm

you said something on the front page of papers is relevant and it's the date? That's right
if so, do you need more than one paper YES to find the flaw? Not to find the flaw but to expose it - good q
or can it be found by not recycling just one paper? No
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Pulp Friction

Postby Grip » Tue Nov 01, 2016 4:12 pm

Do the other papers you have to have have to be from the same paper? or could you use say a copy of the Boston Herald and a copy of the Chicago Sun-Times? do the dates have to be sequential? is one particular newspaper more relevant than others?

Are the claims in the ads related to time? food?
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Pulp Friction

Postby CoffeeBean » Tue Nov 01, 2016 4:18 pm

Do the other papers you have to have have to be from the same paper? No or could you use say a copy of the Boston Herald and a copy of the Chicago Sun-Times? Yes, this could be done do the dates have to be sequential? YES is one particular newspaper more relevant than others? No, any newspaper(s) will work

Are the claims in the ads related to time? Primarily this, and...food?...this too
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Pulp Friction

Postby Grip » Tue Nov 01, 2016 4:21 pm

Hmmm...the title mentions friction...is friction relevant?

Are the ads related to delivering food? food spoilage? coupons for food? expiration dates? freshness? food disposal?

Is there some calculation involved garbage pickup relevant?
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Pulp Friction

Postby CoffeeBean » Tue Nov 01, 2016 4:30 pm

Hmmm...the title mentions friction...is friction relevant? No, I just thought it made a funny pairing with "pulp", relevant because newspapers are involved

Are the ads related to delivering food? food spoilage? coupons for food? expiration dates? freshness? food disposal? None of this

Is there some calculation involved garbage pickup relevant? No
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Pulp Friction

Postby Grip » Tue Nov 01, 2016 4:57 pm

Is how things are recycled relevant? when? is timing the ads with recycling cycles in some way relevant?
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Pulp Friction

Postby CoffeeBean » Tue Nov 01, 2016 6:45 pm

Is how things are recycled relevant? when? No
is timing the ads with recycling cycles in some way relevant? No
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Pulp Friction

Postby Grip » Tue Nov 01, 2016 7:15 pm

Are the ads in some way not timely? not effective? become outdated too quickly?
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Pulp Friction

Postby CoffeeBean » Tue Nov 01, 2016 7:24 pm

Are the ads in some way not timely? No, this isn't an issue
not effective? Actually it's the opposite, this kind of ad has been considered very effective, but several people have demonstrated something that basically shows that a flaw can easily exist with it
become outdated too quickly? No
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Pulp Friction

Postby Grip » Tue Nov 01, 2016 7:29 pm

If someone just kept sending you a piece of paper every day with the date written on it could you still find the flaw? is more than food and time relevant to the ad claims?
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Pulp Friction

Postby CoffeeBean » Tue Nov 01, 2016 7:41 pm

If someone just kept sending you a piece of paper every day with the date written on it could you still find the flaw? No, a person wouldn't do this in order to expose the flaw. This is a good area to explore, though.
Is more than food and time relevant to the ad claims? The claims made by the ads do not specifically mention food in many cases, but an assumption about food is usually made by the person who sees the ads. There is a very relevant feature of the ads that is related to time. There is one other very relevant feature of the ads.
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Pulp Friction

Postby Grip » Wed Nov 02, 2016 12:35 pm

Are the claims related to storage of some kind? recycling?
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Pulp Friction

Postby CoffeeBean » Wed Nov 02, 2016 2:23 pm

Are the claims related to storage of some kind? recycling? No.
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Pulp Friction

Postby Grip » Wed Nov 02, 2016 4:53 pm

Are the ads pop-ups? do they advertise a product? service? food is involved, are beverages? are they banner ads? are they bots?

is the quality of the paper pulp relevant?

can you still find this flaw if you wait before just throwing it away instead of recycling?

are landfills relevant?
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Pulp Friction

Postby CoffeeBean » Wed Nov 02, 2016 6:52 pm

Are the ads pop-ups? Possibly, but I've not seen this type of ad as a pop-up
do they advertise a product? service? Usually a combination of both
food is involved, are beverages? Sometimes, yes
are they banner ads? are they bots? Irrelevant

is the quality of the paper pulp relevant? No

can you still find this flaw if you wait before just throwing it away instead of recycling? Yes (cleared up that lurking FA), but again this is how a person would expose the flaw, not find it

are landfills relevant? No
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Pulp Friction

Postby biograd » Wed Nov 02, 2016 7:07 pm

Is the ad some kind of "limited time offer"? Would the papers and their dates somehow be able to establish that something was still available long after the deadline that was being stated in the ad?
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Pulp Friction

Postby CoffeeBean » Wed Nov 02, 2016 7:29 pm

Is the ad some kind of "limited time offer"? No
Would the papers and their dates somehow be able to establish that something was still available long after the deadline that was being stated in the ad? Not this, but you are OTRT with "papers and dates"...
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Pulp Friction

Postby Grip » Wed Nov 02, 2016 9:01 pm

Are these ads for restaurants? theme parks? cruise ships? trains? air travel? real estate? bars? paranormal investigations? museums?

can these ads be for a small business? a regional business? national? multi-national?
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Pulp Friction

Postby CoffeeBean » Wed Nov 02, 2016 9:08 pm

Are these ads for restaurants? theme parks? cruise ships? trains? air travel? real estate? bars? paranormal investigations? museums?
None of these

can these ads be for a small business? a regional business? national? multi-national? Many of these are for nation-wide companies, possibly multi-national
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Pulp Friction

Postby Grip » Wed Nov 02, 2016 9:26 pm

Are the ads for a store of some kind?
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Pulp Friction

Postby CoffeeBean » Thu Nov 03, 2016 6:46 pm

Are the ads for a store of some kind? No, the best description of the ads is that they are for a product/service
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Pulp Friction

Postby Grip » Thu Nov 03, 2016 7:20 pm

Do the ads claim they will do something in a certain amount of time? in a certain way? that they are better than their competitors? do they ever have famous endorsers?

Are the ads for dry cleaning of some kind? maid services? security service of some kind? protective services?

are vehicles relevant? games? toys? pets? electronics? computers? search engines? internet services?

Do you figure I have used this product/service in the past? if so, would the flaw compel me to stop using it?

Was this product/service around 50 years ago? 100? 200?
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Pulp Friction

Postby CoffeeBean » Thu Nov 03, 2016 7:38 pm

Do the ads claim they will do something in a certain amount of time? YES, the ads claim that something will happen over a period of time that is usually several days to a few weeks in a certain way? The methods are varied (which is a component of the flaw) that they are better than their competitors? Yes, many such ads make this claim (also a flaw that has been exposed) do they ever have famous endorsers? Oh yes, almost always

Are the ads for dry cleaning of some kind? maid services? security service of some kind? protective services? None of these

are vehicles relevant? games? toys? pets? electronics? computers? search engines? internet services? None of this

Do you figure I have used this product/service in the past? I have no idea. I used a type of this product/service when I was in my mid 20's.
if so, would the flaw compel me to stop using it? Very possible! If you were using such a product/service and you were made aware of the flaw, you may very well be persuaded to no longer use it (explore this)

Was this product/service around 50 years ago? 100? 200? The most common provider of this product/service has been around since the early 1960's, but over the last 15-20 years this has become much more common.
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Pulp Friction

Postby Grip » Thu Nov 03, 2016 7:45 pm

Is the product/service health related? medicine related? weight loss related? is it some kind of diet plan? and the claim is in so and so time you will lose so and so amount of pounds?

Can you use this product/service at home? can it be bought in a store? do you have to go somewhere in order to use this product/service?

You did say this kind of ad is also on TV?
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Pulp Friction

Postby CoffeeBean » Thu Nov 03, 2016 7:49 pm

Is the product/service health related? medicine related? weight loss related? <--- THIS
is it some kind of diet plan? In some cases, yes and the claim is in so and so time you will lose so and so amount of pounds? Yes, exactly!

Can you use this product/service at home? can it be bought in a store? do you have to go somewhere in order to use this product/service? People have pointed out the flaw in ads that are usually for products and methods that people are supposed to do at home. But based on more recent advertising, the same flaw can be seen in ads for businesses that conduct such services at their facilities.

You did say this kind of ad is also on TV? Oh yes, all the time.
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Pulp Friction

Postby Grip » Thu Nov 03, 2016 8:00 pm

Darn it, I misunderstood and thought you said the ads were NOT on TV, so in thinking this type of ad was mainly found online I got caught in a FA that really hampered me trying to solve this. Do'h! Sorry.

Let's see...are these ads for various weight loss programs that usually include dieting or working out or some combo of these? is Weight Watchers one of these companies involved? Jenny Craig?

So by using the dates on the newspapers and comparing them to your own weight gain/loss during those dates (if you are on one of these programs), you can show that you don't actually lose the pounds in the amount of time claimed in the ads?
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Pulp Friction

Postby CoffeeBean » Fri Nov 04, 2016 2:32 pm

Let's see...are these ads for various weight loss programs that usually include dieting or working out or some combo of these? Yes, but they also include something else that is relevant
is Weight Watchers one of these companies involved? Jenny Craig? Yes, both of these. I'm not sure that they display the type of flawed information that other companies use, but they use similar tactics.

So by using the dates on the newspapers and comparing them to your own weight gain/loss during those dates (if you are on one of these programs), you can show that you don't actually lose the pounds in the amount of time claimed in the ads? No, not this. There's usually another element besides weight loss involved, and you're OTRT with the idea of not actually losing any weight (or something else that ads claim can happen in a short amount of time)
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Pulp Friction

Postby Grip » Fri Nov 04, 2016 3:45 pm

Hmmm...are the special meals some of the companies sell involved? or one of those diet shakes?
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Pulp Friction

Postby CoffeeBean » Fri Nov 04, 2016 3:47 pm

Hmmm...are the special meals some of the companies sell involved? or one of those diet shakes? Not these in and of themselves, but they are secondarily relevant in the same way as other aspects of these products and programs. But the relevant flaw certainly exists in ads for such diet meal plans, protein shakes, etc.
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Pulp Friction

Postby Grip » Fri Nov 04, 2016 3:56 pm

More than weight loss...weight gain as in muscle not fat? having more energy? being more alert? sleeping less? getting more full while eating less?

Is calorie counting relevant?

Are before and after pictures relevant?
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Pulp Friction

Postby Balin » Fri Nov 04, 2016 3:59 pm

Backing up a bit: are other relevant items being recycled? Food containers?
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Pulp Friction

Postby CoffeeBean » Fri Nov 04, 2016 4:01 pm

More than weight loss...weight gain as in muscle not fat? Yes, this is very relevant having more energy? being more alert? sleeping less? getting more full while eating less? None of this is relevant

Is calorie counting relevant? No

Are before and after pictures relevant? YES, very much!

Backing up a bit: are other relevant items being recycled? Food containers? No, the reason that I mentioned recycling was to lead you to discover that it's relevant that people save newspapers instead of recycling them or just throwing them away.
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Pulp Friction

Postby Grip » Fri Nov 04, 2016 4:06 pm

Hmmm...okay, by using the newspaper dates you can expose that the person in those type of pictures could not look like that in the time claimed?

Can you find a picture or pictures of some of these people in the newspaper as well? and thus the dates and the time claimed for muscle gain/loss is wrong because they don't match up?
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Pulp Friction

Postby CoffeeBean » Fri Nov 04, 2016 4:10 pm

Hmmm...okay, by using the newspaper dates you can expose that the person in those type of pictures could not look like that in the time claimed?
Quite the opposite!

Can you find a picture or pictures of some of these people in the newspaper as well? and thus the dates and the time claimed for muscle gain/loss is wrong because they don't match up? Not relevant, the only purpose for the newspaper is to have some proof of the dates.
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Pulp Friction

Postby Grip » Fri Nov 04, 2016 4:16 pm

You can show that the person *could* look like that within the relevant time frame? or that they could look like that sooner?

By using the dates, you can show that the after picture can't at all be accurate? or can be accurate? the before picture couldn't be accurate? or can be accurate?

I was thinking along the lines of that by having the proof of the dates you can show that the after picture of the person with all the weight loss/muscle gain could/would not happen within the time frame the ads claim they happened/could happen?
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Pulp Friction

Postby CoffeeBean » Fri Nov 04, 2016 4:31 pm

You can show that the person *could* look like that within the relevant time frame? Yes, and...that they could look like that sooner?...this! Actually much, much sooner!

By using the dates, you can show that the after picture can't at all be accurate? Well...or can be accurate?...this, if the person does a couple of things that haven't been asked about yet. the before picture couldn't be accurate? or can be accurate? Good q - the way the flaw has been exposed is by showing that the "before" photo it BOTH accurate AND inaccurate.

I was thinking along the lines of that by having the proof of the dates you can show that the after picture of the person with all the weight loss/muscle gain could/would not happen within the time frame the ads claim they happened/could happen? Well part of the flaw is with the "proof of dates." The other part has to do with perceived muscle gain and/or fat loss within a certain time frame.
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Pulp Friction

Postby Grip » Sat Nov 05, 2016 8:00 pm

Is the before picture accurate in that that was what the person looked like but inaccurate because you don't need the weight loss/gain service to look like the after picture? or that you don't need to diet and or workout to look that way?

Is digital manipulation of the images relevant?
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Pulp Friction

Postby CoffeeBean » Mon Nov 07, 2016 3:24 pm

Is the before picture accurate in that that was what the person looked like No, it's not, and this is the flaw in these ads...but inaccurate because you don't need the weight loss/gain service to look like the after picture?...and yes, when the flaw is exposed it shows that in many cases the product/service is completely unnecessary for many people who believe they should buy or use it.
or that you don't need to diet and or workout to look that way? Exactly.

Is digital No, not this manipulation of the images relevant? Yes, manipulation is relevant.
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Pulp Friction

Postby Grip » Mon Nov 07, 2016 5:05 pm

So in the before pictures, the person did not look like that...in the date when he/she is claimed to have looked like that? or they never looked like that to begin with?

Is how much/what clothing the person in the pictures is wearing relevant?
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Pulp Friction

Postby CoffeeBean » Mon Nov 07, 2016 5:10 pm

So in the before pictures, the person did not look like that...in the date when he/she is claimed to have looked like that? Look like what?
or they never looked like that to begin with? The opposite of this!

Is how much/what clothing the person in the pictures is wearing relevant? Yes
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Pulp Friction

Postby Grip » Mon Nov 07, 2016 5:16 pm

By look like that/this in the before pictures, I meant overweight or little muscle mass.

Can you look like the before pictures by simply manipulating or wearing certain clothing? are the times where they use before and after photos where the subject is wearing very little relevant?
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Pulp Friction

Postby CoffeeBean » Mon Nov 07, 2016 8:42 pm

By look like that/this in the before pictures, I meant overweight or little muscle mass. Yes. The people in the "before" pictures displayed signs of being overweight and/or having little muscle mass.

Can you look like the before pictures by simply manipulating yes... or wearing certain clothing? ...but the clothing isn't what is manipulated.
are the times where they use before and after photos where the subject is wearing very little relevant? Yes, something about the timing of the photos is very relevant
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Pulp Friction

Postby Grip » Mon Nov 07, 2016 8:46 pm

Is the image manipulated without camera tricks? or is altered by some technical process or other? are wires relevant?

Are girdles relevant?

Is this flaw easier found when the subjects in the picture are wearing very little as opposed to fully dressed? vice versa? or is it irrelevant?
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Pulp Friction

Postby CoffeeBean » Mon Nov 07, 2016 9:02 pm

Is the image manipulated without camera tricks? Not the image, but something is manipulatedor is altered by some technical process or other? are wires relevant? No, there is no technology required

Are girdles relevant? No

Is this flaw easier found when the subjects in the picture are wearing very little as opposed to fully dressed? Yes, very much the case
vice versa? or is it irrelevant? Yes, very relevant. In order to expose this flaw, the person in both the before and after photos needs to be wearing minimal clothing. The man in the "exposure" photos that I saw was wearing only a pair of shorts.
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Pulp Friction

Postby Grip » Mon Nov 07, 2016 9:10 pm

Wait a minute...are the bodies themselves altered? is plastic surgery of some kind relevant?
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Pulp Friction

Postby CoffeeBean » Mon Nov 07, 2016 9:11 pm

Wait a minute...are the bodies themselves altered? Yes!
is plastic surgery of some kind relevant? No, the people that expose the flaw make it clear that plastic surgery isn't needed
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Pulp Friction

Postby Grip » Mon Nov 07, 2016 9:26 pm

Hmmm...are tattoos relevant? piercings? sucking in of the gut? birthmarks? is height relevant?

Are light and shadows in the pictures relevant?
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Pulp Friction

Postby CoffeeBean » Mon Nov 07, 2016 9:31 pm

Hmmm...are tattoos relevant? piercings? sucking in of the gut? <--This! And one other thing! birthmarks? is height relevant? No

Are light and shadows in the pictures relevant? No
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Pulp Friction

Postby CoffeeBean » Mon Nov 07, 2016 9:32 pm

Sucking in the gut is involved, as well as the opposite of this.
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Pulp Friction

Postby Grip » Mon Nov 07, 2016 9:37 pm

So, the pictures are achieved by sucking in and also pushing the gut out?

And even so, I still have to put together how having verifiable dates exposes this, right?
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Pulp Friction

Postby CoffeeBean » Mon Nov 07, 2016 9:54 pm

So, the pictures are achieved by sucking in and also pushing the gut out? Yes, and one other thing

And even so, I still have to put together how having verifiable dates exposes this, right? Yes
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Pulp Friction

Postby Grip » Thu Nov 10, 2016 3:37 pm

Do you need to compare the dates in the paper with the dates in the ad?
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Pulp Friction

Postby CoffeeBean » Thu Nov 10, 2016 4:17 pm

Do you need to compare the dates in the paper with the dates in the ad? No. Any date that may appear in the ad, besides the dates on the two newspapers, is totally irrelevant.
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Pulp Friction

Postby GalFisk » Sat Nov 12, 2016 7:57 am

Anything in the photos besides the person relevant? Lighting or color balance relevant?
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Pulp Friction

Postby CoffeeBean » Mon Nov 14, 2016 3:08 pm

Anything in the photos besides the person relevant? Yes, the newspapers

Lighting or color balance relevant? Not these but OTRT
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Pulp Friction

Postby GalFisk » Mon Nov 14, 2016 4:24 pm

Are there newspapers visible in the photos? If so are they fake? Photoshopped?
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Pulp Friction

Postby CoffeeBean » Mon Nov 14, 2016 7:52 pm

Are there newspapers visible in the photos? Yes (this is relevant)
If so are they fake? Photoshopped? No, they are real, actual newspapers
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Pulp Friction

Postby Grip » Mon Nov 14, 2016 8:00 pm

So, newspapers are visible in the before and after photos?
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Pulp Friction

Postby CoffeeBean » Mon Nov 14, 2016 8:22 pm

So, newspapers are visible in the before and after photos? Yes - good q
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Pulp Friction

Postby Grip » Mon Nov 14, 2016 8:49 pm

Hmmm...does the after picture show a date on the paper that is before the date on the paper in the before photo?
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Pulp Friction

Postby GalFisk » Mon Nov 14, 2016 9:04 pm

Are they deliberately visible? Dates on papers in photos relevant? Other paper content visible in photos?
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Pulp Friction

Postby CoffeeBean » Mon Nov 14, 2016 9:12 pm

Hmmm...does the after picture show a date on the paper that is before the date on the paper in the before photo? No, but the time span between the dates is relevant

Are they deliberately visible? Yes Dates on papers in photos relevant? [b]Yes[/b] Other paper content visible in photos? Only of secondary relevance, since people may identify a certain day's paper by the headline and/or front page photo. But the only relevant thing about the papers is that they prove that a certain amount of time has passed.
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Pulp Friction

Postby Grip » Mon Nov 14, 2016 9:39 pm

Is it simply that the dates on the papers in the photos are farther apart than is really necessary to gain muscle/lose weight or at the least look like you did via sucking in the gut and all that? Is this a case of the implied time frame via the ad claims vs. the real time frame shown by the dates on the papers in the photos?

Is it that the dates on the papers have been altered?

Are the people holding the newspaper in the photos?
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Pulp Friction

Postby CoffeeBean » Tue Nov 15, 2016 3:40 pm

Is it simply that the dates on the papers in the photos are farther apart than is really necessary to gain muscle/lose weight or at the least look like you did via sucking in the gut and all that? This is the main aspect of the flaw, yes
Is this a case of the implied time frame via the ad claims vs. the real time frame shown by the dates on the papers in the photos? This is very much OTRT. In order for the person to possess two newspapers with dates a certain time frame apart, it means that they must have gotten those papers on those dates, or at least acquired them on or after the publishing date. See below...

Is it that the dates on the papers have been altered? No, they are the real dates of release

Are the people holding the newspaper in the photos? Yes, always

Really all that is left is to discover exactly what the person does to expose the flaw. We know that in order to do this, they need to take photos of themselves holding newspapers, and the newspapers must be dated at a certain interval. The time frame of dates between the newspapers' publishing is relevant, but there is another very relevant time frame that hasn't been fully explored...
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Pulp Friction

Postby GalFisk » Tue Nov 15, 2016 5:45 pm

Do the exposers imitate the photos? Do they take similar photos using only the most recent newspaper?
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Pulp Friction

Postby CoffeeBean » Wed Nov 16, 2016 4:30 pm

Do the exposers imitate the photos? They imitate the style of the photos, yes. They aren't trying to copy or duplicate any specific photo(s) used in ads, just the style and some specific aspects of the type of photos.
Do they take similar photos using only the most recent newspaper? The newspaper does not have to be recent (it usually is), it's just relevant that in the "after" photo the newspaper is dated later than the one in the "before" photo.
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Pulp Friction

Postby GalFisk » Wed Nov 16, 2016 5:29 pm

Can the exposers take these photos because they possess papers with a sufficient date interval? Do they take the before and after photos within a few minutes from one another? Do they video the photo session? Do they satirize the ads? Do they show that their photos have all the same qualities as the ads?
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Pulp Friction

Postby CoffeeBean » Wed Nov 16, 2016 5:38 pm

Can the exposers take these photos because they possess papers with a sufficient date interval? Yes
Do they take the before and after photos within a few minutes from one another? Yes! In many cases this is exactly what they do. Others do something relevant that requires 2-3 days between photos.
Do they video the photo session? Hmmm, I've not seen anyone do this but they surely could if they wanted to expose the flaw
Do they satirize the ads? No, this isn't the reason they do it
Do they show that their photos have all the same qualities as the ads? Yes, this is the result. They show that the transformation that the ads claim requires weeks or months can be duplicated in only a few minutes or at most a few days. You just need to discover exactly what they are doing.
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Pulp Friction

Postby Grip » Wed Nov 16, 2016 5:53 pm

Are the people taking these photos overweight or lacking in muscle mass in the before picture and holding a newspaper? and then suck in/push out their gut and all that and take new photos, holding up a newspaper dating a day or a few days later? to show that they can look thinner/have more muscle mass in a day or days instead of weeks and months?
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Pulp Friction

Postby CoffeeBean » Wed Nov 16, 2016 8:41 pm

Are the people taking these photos overweight or lacking in muscle mass in the before picture NO, they are in very good if not excellent physical shape! and holding a newspaper? Yes, they are holding a newspaper and then suck in/push out their gut FIRST they push it out and THEN they suck it in... and all that and take new photos, holding up a newspaper dating a day or a few days later? Usually 4-6 weeks later, in some cases a few months later to show that they can look thinner/have more muscle mass in a day or days instead of weeks and months? Some of them can show it in only a matter of seconds if they haven't thrown their old newspaper away...

And there's one other thing that people have done to more closely duplicate supposedly "real" photos...
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Pulp Friction

Postby GalFisk » Wed Nov 16, 2016 8:57 pm

Is this something they do with their bodies? Faces? Lighting relevant? Camera angle? Hair?
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Pulp Friction

Postby Grip » Wed Nov 16, 2016 9:00 pm

Brain...hurts...gonna see if I can get this organized...

Okay, so a person who is in very good shape makes him or herself look in poorer shape? they take a picture of themselves in such simulated shape with an newspaper having a specific date? and they label it a "before" picture?

They then undo what they did to look in poorer shape? take a new picture of themselves in this shape holding a newspaper that is dated before? after? the "before' picture and they call this the "after" picture and claim it shows the before and after pictures in the real ads can be faked?

Is that basically right or is it a mess? :)

And you want us to find out what this other thing the people do to closely duplicate the real photos is? if so, does it involve tape? bodily functions? manipulation of the body? camera placement?

Do the people doing the simulation of the real ads actually lose any real significant amount of weight or gain muscle mass?
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Pulp Friction

Postby CoffeeBean » Wed Nov 16, 2016 10:31 pm

Brain...hurts...gonna see if I can get this organized... You're doing great!

Okay, so a person who is in very good shape makes him or herself look in poorer shape? they take a picture of themselves in such simulated shape with an newspaper having a specific date? and they label it a "before" picture? Yes, all of this is correct

They then undo what they did to look in poorer shape? Yes take a new picture of themselves in this shape holding a newspaper that is dated before? after? It's dated after the one in the "before" pic the "before' picture and they call this the "after" picture and claim it shows the before and after pictures in the real ads can be faked? The pics aren't fake, but it's very easy to do something in both pics to overstate or falsify the effects of certain diets and exercise programs

Is that basically right or is it a mess? :) You are mostly right with all of this!

And you want us to find out what this other thing the people do to closely duplicate the real photos is? if so, does it involve tape? bodily functions? manipulation of the body? camera placement? "Manipulation" is the closest. Just think about tips people give for making fat people look muscular and/or in better shape...

Do the people doing the simulation of the real ads actually lose any real significant amount of weight or gain muscle mass? NO! In order to expose the flaw, a person needs to be in fairly good if not great physical shape all along. They do something to alter their body in the "before" pic, then usually do two things to alter it in the "after" pic. Pushing their gut out is part of it, and a physically fit person wouldn't need to suck in their gut because it looks like they want it to.
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Pulp Friction

Postby CoffeeBean » Fri Nov 18, 2016 8:00 pm

RECAP

People have found a way to expose a flaw with ads for certain diets and/or exercise programs. They can duplicate a "before" and "after" person who, according to the ads needed weeks or months to make the transformation. The person exposing the flaw can do it by saving an old newspaper and getting a current one. They can take photos only a few seconds apart and demonstrate the same kind of differences that the ads show. This works best if the person exposing the flaw is in very good physical shape. They achieve the result by poking their gut out for one of the photos but not in the other one. In order to more closely duplicate the ads, they usually do one other thing that might require a few days.


jReally just need one minor piece to finish this one...
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Pulp Friction

Postby GalFisk » Fri Nov 18, 2016 8:50 pm

Beard relevant? Does it require a few days of waiting? Of doing something?
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Pulp Friction

Postby CoffeeBean » Fri Nov 18, 2016 9:41 pm

Beard relevant? No Does it require a few days of waiting? Yes, waiting for something to happen and...Of doing something?...this, doing something every day for a few days in a row.
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Pulp Friction

Postby GalFisk » Sat Nov 19, 2016 9:25 am

Does the thing they do change the appearance of their bodies in any way? Waiting for a package relevant? For other people to finish doing something?
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Pulp Friction

Postby Grip » Sun Nov 20, 2016 4:09 pm

Do they do stomach crunches for a few days? put a weight on their stomach for a few days?
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Pulp Friction

Postby CoffeeBean » Mon Nov 21, 2016 3:31 pm

Does the thing they do change the appearance of their bodies in any way? Yes, in one specific way
Waiting for a package relevant? No, but they do wait for something to happen For other people to finish doing something? No

Do they do stomach crunches for a few days? put a weight on their stomach for a few days? No, it's safe to assume that people who do this thing to show the flaw are already in good shape and don't make any changes in their usual diet and/or exercise routine over these few relevant days
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Pulp Friction

Postby GalFisk » Mon Nov 21, 2016 4:45 pm

Tanning relevant?
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Pulp Friction

Postby Grip » Mon Nov 21, 2016 6:22 pm

Are sleeping patterns relevant?

Do they cut their hair? allow hair to grow back?
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Pulp Friction

Postby CoffeeBean » Mon Nov 21, 2016 8:03 pm

Tanning relevant? YES

Are sleeping patterns relevant? Do they cut their hair? allow hair to grow back? No to all
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Pulp Friction

Postby GalFisk » Mon Nov 21, 2016 8:31 pm

Do they get a tan for the "after" photo? To make them look healthy? To make it look like they've spent along time in the sun?
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Pulp Friction

Postby CoffeeBean » Mon Nov 21, 2016 9:03 pm

Do they get a tan for the "after" photo? Yes!
To make them look healthy? Well yes, more muscular
To make it look like they've spent along time in the sun? Probably, but the important part is the muscles


***** SPOILER *****

By saving an old newspaper for several weeks, a physically fit person can nearly duplicate some ads that claim their product can cause a body to transform in months or a year. A person in good shape can have a photo taken holding a newspaper that is 8 weeks old while slouching and pushing their stomach out to hide muscle tone. Then just a few days later, after getting a tan, they can take an "after" photo with a current newspaper flexing all of their muscles. By doing this, they reveal a flaw in the type of advertising. The ads can make it look like a diet or exercise program causes desirable results in weeks or months, when it's very possible that the person in their photos was already in good physical shape, therefore the effects of the product or program have been exaggerated or falsely shown in the ads.


Great work by Grip and Galfisk on this one!
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Pulp Friction

Postby Grip » Mon Nov 21, 2016 9:27 pm

Me and GalFisk finally conquered the beast! :) Good puzzle! I will say though that showing photos can be simulated does not mean the original photos are fake. My sister went on Weight Watchers when she was very heavy and she did lose a significant amount of weight (not simulated weight! :)) within the next weeks and months. So that particular company's program does work for her at least.
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Pulp Friction

Postby CoffeeBean » Mon Nov 21, 2016 9:56 pm

The goal of the people who simulated these photos wasn't to show that the photos used by reputable companies like WW were faked. It was more to make a statement about some products and programs that were being marketed as having "best results" or "fastest results." What some of these people did was simply ask, "What if a person in good shape took a pic of themselves holding an old newspaper, frowning, having no tan, pushing their stomach out, slouching, etc. And then after a few days in the tanning bed they took another pic with that day's newspaper. Would it look like these ads?" The similarity between the two was amazing, showing that it was very likely that some of these programs and products had indeed exaggerated their effectiveness.
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Pulp Friction

Postby Grip » Mon Nov 21, 2016 10:10 pm

Oh, sorry, didn't mean to sound like I was disputing you. Thanks for the extra info. :)
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Re: [CoffeeBean] Pulp Friction

Postby CoffeeBean » Tue Nov 22, 2016 3:44 am

Oh no problem, I should have clarified in my statement that it was some of the less reputable products/programs that were exposed.

As I recall, the Thigh-Master was among the targets.
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