[WiZ] AGM of the Heart-shaped diamond spade club

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[WiZ] AGM of the Heart-shaped diamond spade club

Postby WiZ » Wed Dec 14, 2016 9:43 pm

Walking around many secondary schools in New Zealand, you are likely to encounter a particular image.

You are a lot less likely to encounter this image in Catholic and Presbyterian schools. But the image is not at all religious in nature.

What is it? And why wouldn't you find it in these places?
Last edited by WiZ on Mon Dec 19, 2016 9:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [WiZ] AGM of the Heart-shaped diamond spade club

Postby Grip » Wed Dec 14, 2016 10:35 pm

Does this image convey a message? i.e. where the restrooms are?

Is it an image of a human? animal? abstract?

Is this image found in high schools? colleges? elementary schools?
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Re: [WiZ] AGM of the Heart-shaped diamond spade club

Postby Westing1992 » Wed Dec 14, 2016 10:44 pm

It's not religious, but is it not displayed in these religious schools for other ideological reasons?
Is it related to a specific subject? Science? Math? Literature? History? Geography?
Is it related to the New Zealand government?
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Re: [WiZ] AGM of the Heart-shaped diamond spade club

Postby WiZ » Wed Dec 14, 2016 10:49 pm

Grip

Does this image convey a message? yes i.e. where the restrooms are? and, yes. wow. Well done.

Is it an image of a human? yes animal? abstract? no to these

Is this image found in high schools? colleges? elementary schools? all of these

Westing1992

It's not religious, but is it not displayed in these religious schools for other ideological reasons? no
Is it related to a specific subject? no Science? Math? Literature? History? Geography? n/a to all
Is it related to the New Zealand government? no
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Re: [WiZ] AGM of the Heart-shaped diamond spade club

Postby Grip » Wed Dec 14, 2016 10:57 pm

I get a lucky strike now and then! :)

Are the bathroom images in NZ like the ones in the States? the little stylized guy and or woman?

Is it considered too crass and base to use these symbols in religious schools? because they so directly reference the bathroom and all the...stuff...that goes on in there?
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Re: [WiZ] AGM of the Heart-shaped diamond spade club

Postby WiZ » Wed Dec 14, 2016 11:04 pm

Are the bathroom images in NZ like the ones in the States? the little stylized guy and or woman? Yes, in this case

Is it considered too crass and base to use these symbols in religious schools? no (Anglican, SDA, Accelerated Learning etc. schools don't tend to have this issue) because they so directly reference the bathroom and all the...stuff...that goes on in there? no
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Re: [WiZ] AGM of the Heart-shaped diamond spade club

Postby Grip » Wed Dec 14, 2016 11:28 pm

Would you not find it because the religious schools you mentioned don't have bathrooms? they use a different symbol that is themed to the schools?
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Re: [WiZ] AGM of the Heart-shaped diamond spade club

Postby WiZ » Wed Dec 14, 2016 11:39 pm

Would you not find it because the religious schools you mentioned don't have bathrooms? no they use a different symbol that is themed to the schools? no
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Re: [WiZ] AGM of the Heart-shaped diamond spade club

Postby Grip » Wed Dec 14, 2016 11:44 pm

Are the symbols less found in the C and P schools for aesthetic reasons? practical reasons? ethical reasons? humorous reasons?

Are the symbols less found because something else is substituted for them instead?
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Re: [WiZ] AGM of the Heart-shaped diamond spade club

Postby WiZ » Wed Dec 14, 2016 11:52 pm

Are the symbols less found in the C and P schools for aesthetic reasons? no practical reasons? this ethical reasons? this is touched on humorous reasons? Not by design, but the overall effect is humorous (that's why it became a puzzle).

Are the symbols less found because something else is substituted for them instead? yes
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Re: [WiZ] AGM of the Heart-shaped diamond spade club

Postby Balin » Thu Dec 15, 2016 1:43 am

Are most religious schools in NZ gender-specific?
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Re: [WiZ] AGM of the Heart-shaped diamond spade club

Postby WiZ » Thu Dec 15, 2016 1:47 am

Are most religious schools in NZ gender-specific? On the balance, yes. Irrelevant, however. Anglican high schools are, I think, exclusively single-sex, but they don't have this issue.
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Re: [WiZ] AGM of the Heart-shaped diamond spade club

Postby Balin » Thu Dec 15, 2016 1:50 am

Do those schools use other symbols to point the way to the restrooms? Do they use words?
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Re: [WiZ] AGM of the Heart-shaped diamond spade club

Postby WiZ » Thu Dec 15, 2016 2:07 am

Do those schools use other symbols to point the way to the restrooms? Do they use words? this
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Re: [WiZ] AGM of the Heart-shaped diamond spade club

Postby Grip » Thu Dec 15, 2016 2:18 am

Are the words they use unintentionally funny?
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Re: [WiZ] AGM of the Heart-shaped diamond spade club

Postby WiZ » Thu Dec 15, 2016 2:19 am

Are the words they use unintentionally funny? no
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Re: [WiZ] AGM of the Heart-shaped diamond spade club

Postby Grip » Thu Dec 15, 2016 3:18 am

Do they even use the word bathroom or restroom to point the way?

Are the words at P and C schools put on signs? the wall?

At P and C schools, would bathroom symbols be possibly misinterpreted as some other symbol?

Crucifixes relevant?
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Re: [WiZ] AGM of the Heart-shaped diamond spade club

Postby WiZ » Thu Dec 15, 2016 3:19 am

Do they even use the word bathroom or restroom to point the way? At the P and C schools, yes

Are the words at P and C schools put on signs? yes the wall? Signs on the wall, yes :)

At P and C schools, would bathroom symbols be possibly misinterpreted yes as some other symbol? no

Crucifixes relevant? no
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Re: [WiZ] AGM of the Heart-shaped diamond spade club

Postby Grip » Thu Dec 15, 2016 4:27 am

At the P and C schools is the concern that the restroom symbols would be misinterpreted as religious figures? icons?
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Re: [WiZ] AGM of the Heart-shaped diamond spade club

Postby GalFisk » Thu Dec 15, 2016 5:54 am

Clothing relevant? School uniforms? Other symbols?
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Re: [WiZ] AGM of the Heart-shaped diamond spade club

Postby LemonCurry » Thu Dec 15, 2016 3:01 pm

Is the disputed commandment "Thou shalt not make any Image" relevant?
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Re: [WiZ] AGM of the Heart-shaped diamond spade club

Postby JenBurdoo » Thu Dec 15, 2016 4:01 pm

Ferns, kiwis, or any other NZ patriotic symbols relevant?
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Re: [WiZ] AGM of the Heart-shaped diamond spade club

Postby WiZ » Thu Dec 15, 2016 7:35 pm

Grip

At the P and C schools is the concern that the restroom symbols would be misinterpreted as religious figures? icons? no to these

GalFisk

Clothing relevant? yes School uniforms? yes Other symbols? no

LemonCurry

Is the disputed commandment "Thou shalt not make any Image" relevant? no

JenBurdoo

Ferns, kiwis, or any other NZ patriotic symbols relevant? not this time
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Re: [WiZ] AGM of the Heart-shaped diamond spade club

Postby Grip » Thu Dec 15, 2016 7:41 pm

Are the bathrooms in P and C schools for student/faculty use only?
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Re: [WiZ] AGM of the Heart-shaped diamond spade club

Postby WiZ » Thu Dec 15, 2016 7:43 pm

Are the bathrooms in P and C schools for student/faculty use only? Not strictly speaking. They would be mostly used by students.
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Re: [WiZ] AGM of the Heart-shaped diamond spade club

Postby Grip » Thu Dec 15, 2016 7:48 pm

Is the resemblance/or lack of/ the symbols to the school uniforms relevant?
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Re: [WiZ] AGM of the Heart-shaped diamond spade club

Postby WiZ » Thu Dec 15, 2016 7:57 pm

Is the resemblance/or lack of/ the symbols to the school uniforms relevant? very much so
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Re: [WiZ] AGM of the Heart-shaped diamond spade club

Postby GalFisk » Thu Dec 15, 2016 7:59 pm

Are boys and girls clothed the same? So the skirt on the symbol for women has no inherent meaning?
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Re: [WiZ] AGM of the Heart-shaped diamond spade club

Postby Grip » Thu Dec 15, 2016 8:04 pm

Or vice versa of what GalFisk just said, the pants on the men symbol has no meaning?
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Re: [WiZ] AGM of the Heart-shaped diamond spade club

Postby WiZ » Thu Dec 15, 2016 9:10 pm

GalFisk

Are boys and girls clothed the same? yope to yesish, in some cases So the skirt on the symbol for women has no inherent meaning? Very much ORT - I'd like to elaborate, but it would be difficult to do without giving everything away

Grip

Or vice versa of what GalFisk just said, the pants on the men symbol has no meaning? no - the skirt-shape is key
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Re: [WiZ] AGM of the Heart-shaped diamond spade club

Postby Grip » Thu Dec 15, 2016 9:15 pm

Do they boys wear long robes or jackets? that could make them look like the women symbol?
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Re: [WiZ] AGM of the Heart-shaped diamond spade club

Postby WiZ » Thu Dec 15, 2016 9:23 pm

Do they boys wear long robes or jackets? no, but that could make them look like the women symbol? this is correct in principle.

So, what aspect of the uniform makes boys look like a women symbol? And why does it affect Catholic and Presbytarian schools?
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Re: [WiZ] AGM of the Heart-shaped diamond spade club

Postby Balin » Thu Dec 15, 2016 9:42 pm

I don't suppose kilts are relevant in any way, but just in case... are they?
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Re: [WiZ] AGM of the Heart-shaped diamond spade club

Postby WiZ » Thu Dec 15, 2016 9:51 pm

I don't suppose kilts are relevant in any way, but just in case... are they? they are. This is not the complete picture, however
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Re: [WiZ] AGM of the Heart-shaped diamond spade club

Postby Balin » Thu Dec 15, 2016 11:54 pm

So do male students in New Zealand wear kilts? Do they have the option to wear kilts?
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Re: [WiZ] AGM of the Heart-shaped diamond spade club

Postby WiZ » Fri Dec 16, 2016 12:23 am

So do male students in New Zealand wear kilts? Do they have the option to wear kilts? This (as in, certain schools' uniform code variously permits or mandates it at certain times/year levels/events).


But certainly not all schools. Indeed, certainly not many. And there's more to the answer than kilts...
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Re: [WiZ] AGM of the Heart-shaped diamond spade club

Postby Grip » Fri Dec 16, 2016 9:15 pm

Is what is the more to the answer also involve clothing? is so, below the waist? above?
headgear of any kind relevant? sports uniforms relevant?
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Re: [WiZ] AGM of the Heart-shaped diamond spade club

Postby Lynne » Sat Dec 17, 2016 8:35 am

Do the girls wear tartan patterned trousers?
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Re: [WiZ] AGM of the Heart-shaped diamond spade club

Postby WiZ » Sun Dec 18, 2016 7:31 pm

Grip

Is what is the more to the answer also involve clothing? yes is so, below the waist? yes above?
headgear of any kind relevant? sports uniforms relevant? no to these

Lynne

(Hi Lynne)

Do the girls wear tartan patterned trousers? no (my secular country high school did have this option, funnily enough. Almost no girls exercised it, because the trousers were hideous).
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Re: [WiZ] AGM of the Heart-shaped diamond spade club

Postby Grip » Sun Dec 18, 2016 7:37 pm

Below the waist - hmmm, are stockings relevant? socks? shoes? belts? that ceremonial furry thing sometimes worn around a kilt which the proper name of I have forgot?
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Re: [WiZ] AGM of the Heart-shaped diamond spade club

Postby WiZ » Sun Dec 18, 2016 7:40 pm

Below the waist - hmmm, are stockings relevant? socks? shoes? belts? that ceremonial furry thing sometimes worn around a kilt which the proper name of I have forgot? [sporran] no to all
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Re: [WiZ] AGM of the Heart-shaped diamond spade club

Postby Grip » Sun Dec 18, 2016 7:51 pm

Yikes, strikeout on that last question...below the waist - pants of some kind? skirt of some kind? shorts? jorts? jeans? is the relevant other clothing item below the knee? ankle?
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Re: [WiZ] AGM of the Heart-shaped diamond spade club

Postby WiZ » Sun Dec 18, 2016 8:58 pm

Yikes, strikeout on that last question...below the waist - pants of some kind? skirt of some kind? yes (certainly in terms of form) shorts? jorts? jeans? is the relevant other clothing item below the knee? ankle? no to both
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Re: [WiZ] AGM of the Heart-shaped diamond spade club

Postby Grip » Mon Dec 19, 2016 2:29 am

Are sarongs relevant?
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Re: [WiZ] AGM of the Heart-shaped diamond spade club

Postby WiZ » Mon Dec 19, 2016 2:32 am

Are sarongs relevant? no, although we're getting warm as to the part of the world this garment is associated with...
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Re: [WiZ] AGM of the Heart-shaped diamond spade club

Postby Grip » Mon Dec 19, 2016 2:39 am

Are loincloths relevant? fustanella? lungi?
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Re: [WiZ] AGM of the Heart-shaped diamond spade club

Postby WiZ » Mon Dec 19, 2016 2:44 am

Are loincloths relevant? fustanella? lungi? no, and getting colder. Remember where this puzzle is set.
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Re: [WiZ] AGM of the Heart-shaped diamond spade club

Postby Grip » Mon Dec 19, 2016 3:09 am

Are Maoris relevant? (I thought of this earlier, but for some reason thought what Maoris wore were also called sarongs.)
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Re: [WiZ] AGM of the Heart-shaped diamond spade club

Postby WiZ » Mon Dec 19, 2016 7:38 pm

Are Maoris relevant? (I thought of this earlier, but for some reason thought what Maoris wore were also called sarongs.) No - but certain Polynesians are.
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Re: [WiZ] AGM of the Heart-shaped diamond spade club

Postby Grip » Mon Dec 19, 2016 9:21 pm

Do those Presbyterian and Catholic schools have a number of Polynesian students? who wear traditional dress? which for males includes skirt like apparel? or perhaps baggy style pants that can look like a skirt at times?
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Re: [WiZ] AGM of the Heart-shaped diamond spade club

Postby WiZ » Mon Dec 19, 2016 9:31 pm

Do those Presbyterian no and Catholic yes schools have a number of Polynesian students? yes who wear traditional dress? yes which for males includes skirt like apparel? yes (lavalavas) or perhaps baggy style pants that can look like a skirt at times? no

***** SPOILER *****

Presbyterianism was introduced to New Zealand by Scottish settlers and missionaries. Presbyterian schools often have a kilt as part of the uniform. Catholic schools in New Zealand often have a large proportion of Polynesian students. These schools allow the wearing of (formal) lavalavas as part of the dress code. As such, the traditional skirt-clad symbol for a female toilet becomes a little too ambiguous (and is typically replaced with words).


Well done, Grip, for some excellent tenacity (and getting us remarkable close after the first question), and thank you everyone else for playing.
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