[LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

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[LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby LemonCurry » Wed Jan 18, 2017 9:46 am

We all have some trouble on the job from time to time because an employer or customer has made a business decision to save money.
Alice had some unexpected trouble on the job because a totally unrelated company had made a business decision to save money over 30 years in the past.
What was Alice's job, and what got her into trouble?
Last edited by LemonCurry on Mon Feb 27, 2017 7:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby Grip » Wed Jan 18, 2017 2:09 pm

Okay, let's see...first things first...Alice = HAF?

Her job - blue collar? white collar? medical? financial? service? related to a store? food?

Totally unrelated company - not even in the same industry?

30 years in the past - from our present day? earlier?

Trouble - did she get fired? demoted? arrested?
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby LemonCurry » Wed Jan 18, 2017 2:37 pm

Okay, let's see...first things first...Alice = HAF? yes, but gender is irrelevant

Her job - blue collar? white collar? thisish medical? no financial? no service? yes related to a store? no food? no

Totally unrelated company - not even in the same industry? yes or yesish

30 years in the past - from our present day? earlier? 30 years from Alice's trouble, which was about 20 years from today

Trouble - did she get fired? demoted? unlikely, assume no arrested? no
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby Grip » Wed Jan 18, 2017 3:05 pm

Did she work at a desk? was she a clerk of some kind?

Trouble - she had a difficult problem to solve?
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby LemonCurry » Wed Jan 18, 2017 3:13 pm

Did she work at a desk? probably yes was she a clerk of some kind? no
Trouble - she had a difficult problem to solve? yes
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby GalFisk » Wed Jan 18, 2017 4:31 pm

Did the unrelated Company provide a service? A product? Both? Did they save money on materials? Did they fire people? Did they pollute? Does she use a product of theirs?
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby LemonCurry » Wed Jan 18, 2017 5:28 pm

Did the unrelated Company provide a service? A product? this Both? Did they save money on materials? and this Did they fire people? Did they pollute? Does she use a product of theirs? not relevantly
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby Tantalum » Wed Jan 18, 2017 6:10 pm

Is the Puzzle title relevant?
Is the trouble Connected to getting information?
To do something physical?
Will Alice's Company suffer if she can't solve the problem?
Is the problem of the dilemma sort?
Of the catch-22 sort?
Or just a dull, normal type of problem?
Is there blame to be Distributed?
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby LemonCurry » Wed Jan 18, 2017 6:56 pm

Is the Puzzle title relevant? not really
Is the trouble Connected to getting information? noish
To do something physical? no
Will Alice's Company suffer if she can't solve the problem? possibly, but FA
Is the problem of the dilemma sort? noish
Of the catch-22 sort? no
Or just a dull, normal type of problem? yesish, doyd
Is there blame to be Distributed? no
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby Tantalum » Wed Jan 18, 2017 7:24 pm

The FA...
Is there a problem for Alice to solve?
Is there a Company that can be reasonably called "Alice's Company", meaning the Company employing Alice?

The other Company manufactured a Product?
Some mass produced type of Object?
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby LemonCurry » Wed Jan 18, 2017 9:18 pm

The FA...
Is there a problem for Alice to solve? yes
Is there a Company that can be reasonably called "Alice's Company", meaning the Company employing Alice? noish - Aluce is self-employed

The other Company manufactured a Product? yes
Some mass produced type of Object? yes
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby Grip » Wed Jan 18, 2017 10:50 pm

Was the decision to save money related to the product(s)?
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby Balin » Wed Jan 18, 2017 11:58 pm

Is Alice's name relevant?
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby LemonCurry » Thu Jan 19, 2017 7:09 am

Was the decision to save money related to the product(s)? yes

Is Alice's name relevant? no
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby Grip » Thu Jan 19, 2017 3:29 pm

Is the product for recreation?

Is Alice's field in the legal arena?
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby GalFisk » Thu Jan 19, 2017 3:58 pm

Did they use less material? A different material? Did she use one of their objects? More than one? Ask other people to use one? Or more than one? Is the object made from: metal? Plastic? Glass? Leather/skin/fur? Wood? Rubber? Bone/teeth? Paper/cardboard? Is its weight relevant? Allergy relevant? Magnetism? Size? Durability?
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby GalFisk » Thu Jan 19, 2017 4:01 pm

Did they use less material? A different material? Did she use one of their objects? More than one? Ask other people to use one? Or more than one? Is the object made from: metal? Plastic? Glass? Leather/skin/fur? Wood? Rubber? Bone/teeth? Paper/cardboard? Is its weight relevant? Allergy relevant? Magnetism? Size? Durability?
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby LemonCurry » Thu Jan 19, 2017 5:40 pm

Is the product for recreation? yes

Is Alice's field in the legal arena? no
Did they use less material? not relevantly A different material? yesish

Did she use one of their objects? More than one? Ask other people to use one? Or more than one?
all irrelevant
Is the object made from: metal? Plastic? Glass? Leather/skin/fur? Wood? Rubber? Bone/teeth? Paper/Cardboard? paper, cardboard and plastic

Is its weight relevant? Allergy relevant? Magnetism? Size? Durability? no to these
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby Tantalum » Thu Jan 19, 2017 9:22 pm

Is it necessary for Alice to ever have seen one or more specimens of the Product, for the Puzzle to work?
Does Alice work in some kind of Security-related area?
Are other persons than Alice and those People in the other Company several decades ago, relevant?
Alice's problem - personal? Economical?
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby LemonCurry » Fri Jan 20, 2017 7:42 am

Is it necessary for Alice to ever have seen one or more specimens of the Product, for the Puzzle to work? Yes, or know some relevant facts about the product
Does Alice work in some kind of Security-related area? no
Are other persons than Alice and those People in the other Company several decades ago, relevant? yes
Alice's problem - personal? Economical? the latter
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby RedWine » Fri Jan 20, 2017 11:29 am

Did one or more of Alice's clients use the Unrelated Company's product? Does Alice work in sales? marketing? research?
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby LemonCurry » Fri Jan 20, 2017 11:42 am

Welcome back Redwine!

Did one or more of Alice's clients use the Unrelated Company's product? probably, but irrelevant
Does Alice work in sales? marketing? not beyond selling and promoting her own business
research? no
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby RedWine » Fri Jan 20, 2017 11:55 am

Is Alice's professional field connected with medicine? Is radiation relevant? Does Alice need to pay compensation for something?
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby LemonCurry » Fri Jan 20, 2017 12:00 pm

Is Alice's professional field connected with medicine? no Is radiation relevant? no
Does Alice need to pay compensation for something? no
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby RedWine » Fri Jan 20, 2017 1:36 pm

Is car accident relevant? Did the unrelated company's decision to use different material in their product cause also not work-related trouble to Alice? Is Alice professional field connected with real estates? Are Alice's clients female? male? mixed? children?
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby LemonCurry » Fri Jan 20, 2017 1:44 pm

Is car accident relevant? No
Did the unrelated company's decision to use different material in their product cause also not work-related trouble to Alice? No
Is Alice professional field connected with real estates? No
Are Alice's clients female? male? mixed? children? adults of mixed gender
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby RedWine » Fri Jan 20, 2017 2:07 pm

Did the unrelated company invent the new material to replace what they had used earlier in their products?
Did more companies also decide to use the cheaper material in their products afted the unrelated company change the material in theirs?
Did anyone relevantly die?
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby LemonCurry » Fri Jan 20, 2017 2:14 pm

Did the unrelated company invent the new material to replace what they had used earlier in their products? Yesish or yope, explore
Did more companies also decide to use the cheaper material in their products afted the unrelated company change the material in theirs? possibly, not relevant
Did anyone relevantly die? hopefully not
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby RedWine » Fri Jan 20, 2017 2:21 pm

Did the unrelated company invent a new material? If yes, does Alice deal with this material in her job? Disposable packages relevant?
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby LemonCurry » Fri Jan 20, 2017 2:30 pm

Did the unrelated company invent a new material? no If yes, does Alice deal with this material in her job? no
Disposable packages relevant? no
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby RedWine » Fri Jan 20, 2017 2:32 pm

Did the unrelated company invent a new usage to a known material?
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby LemonCurry » Fri Jan 20, 2017 3:07 pm

Did the unrelated company invent a new usage to a known material?
Sorry, the company did not invent anything relevant - the "yesish/yope" referred to the part "replace what they had used before" part
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby Grip » Sat Jan 21, 2017 2:16 am

Is the product mechanical? electronic? electric? does it make noise on its own? move on its own? is it related to sports?
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby LemonCurry » Sat Jan 21, 2017 6:05 pm

Is the product mechanical? no electronic? no electric? no does it make noise on its own? no move on its own? no is it related to sports? no
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby Tantalum » Sat Jan 21, 2017 10:14 pm

Is this product something that a majority of people in the western world...
Have heard about?
Have ever used?
Own?
Use at home?
At work?
Outdoors?
Indoors?
Does it have moving parts?
Is it used mostly for recreational purposes?
For decorational purposes?
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby LemonCurry » Sun Jan 22, 2017 8:20 am

Is this product something that a majority of people in the western world...
Have heard about? yes
Have ever used? yes
Own? not sure. A lot of people own it, though
Use at home? it is used at home
At work? no
Outdoors? rarely
Indoors? yes
Does it have moving parts? yes
Is it used mostly for recreational purposes? yes
For decorational purposes? no
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby RedWine » Mon Jan 23, 2017 12:23 pm

Is the product used by one person at time? By two people? By more than two people? Is the product used up?
Is it a game? Is it a book? Is it a piece of furniture?
Do people use their hands to use the product? Their legs? Their brain? Their eyes? Their ears?
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby LemonCurry » Mon Jan 23, 2017 12:48 pm

Is the product used by one person at time? no By two people? sometimes By more than two people? more frequently Is the product used up? no
Is it a game? yes! Is it a book? Is it a piece of furniture?
Do people use their hands to use the product? this Their legs? Their brain? and a little of this Their eyes? Their ears?
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby RedWine » Mon Jan 23, 2017 1:02 pm

Is it a board game? A card game? A sports game? Are the specifics of the game needed?
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby LemonCurry » Mon Jan 23, 2017 1:07 pm

Is it a board game? this A card game? A sports game?
Are the specifics of the game needed? yes please
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby RedWine » Mon Jan 23, 2017 1:13 pm

Was the material of the whole game replaced? Material of the pieces only? Does the game use more stuff than board, pieces and dice?
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby LemonCurry » Mon Jan 23, 2017 1:19 pm

Was the material of the whole game replaced? not relevantly
Material of the pieces only? yes, with a couple of ishes
Does the game use more stuff than board, pieces and dice? yes, but only relevant in order to find out the game
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby RedWine » Mon Jan 23, 2017 1:23 pm

Is it relevant which material was used for the pieces before? If yes: stone? wood? metal? Do the pieces need to be of a specific color?
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby LemonCurry » Mon Jan 23, 2017 1:32 pm

Is it relevant which material was used for the pieces before? Yesish, beware FA
If yes: stone? wood? metal? Not sure - it could have been wood, metal or another sort of plastic.
Do the pieces need to be of a specific color? Colors are relevant
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby RedWine » Mon Jan 23, 2017 2:26 pm

Are dice used in the game? Is even number of players required? Do each player have 1 game piece? 2-5? More than 5? Do all players have equal number of pieces?
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby Grip » Mon Jan 23, 2017 3:17 pm

Is the board game Clue(do)? Monopoly? chess?
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby LemonCurry » Mon Jan 23, 2017 3:33 pm

Are dice used in the game? Is even number of players required? Do each player have 1 game piece? 2-5? More than 5? Do all players have equal number of pieces? See below

Is the board game Clue(do)? Monopoly? chess? It's Monopoly
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby GalFisk » Mon Jan 23, 2017 4:00 pm

So they saved money by making the pieces of plastic, correct? Did Alice's job entail: Selling games? Playing games? Packaging games? Nothing to do with games? Did a cheap monopoly piece relevantly end up in an unintended location? Did one break?
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby LemonCurry » Mon Jan 23, 2017 4:36 pm

So they saved money by making the pieces of plastic, correct? yope, there is another point Did Alice's job entail: Selling games? Playing games? Packaging games? Nothing to do with games? no relevant connection to games Did a cheap monopoly piece relevantly end up in an unintended location? no Did one break? no
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby GalFisk » Mon Jan 23, 2017 4:38 pm

Is painting the pieces relevant? Making them out of differently colored plastic? Size of the pieces relevant? Manufacturing method? Are they shoddily made?
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby LemonCurry » Mon Jan 23, 2017 4:43 pm

Is painting the pieces relevant? no
Making them out of differently colored plastic? yesish Size of the pieces relevant? yope Manufacturing method? yesish Are they shoddily made? no
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby GalFisk » Mon Jan 23, 2017 4:45 pm

Were the pieces injection molded? Were different pieces made in separate compartments of the same mold? Were different pieces the same color? Relevant which color(s) were used? Color blindness relevant? Were the pieces stuck together when delivered, and had to be separated by someone before playing the game?
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby RedWine » Mon Jan 23, 2017 5:08 pm

Does Alice have children? Relevant? Was any of Alice's equipment destroyed or damaged by a loose plastic Monopoly piece, what would not have happened had the piece been made from the previous material?
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby Grip » Mon Jan 23, 2017 7:03 pm

As a collector of board games, this is right up my alley!

Are the relevant pieces the player tokens? is it relevant that tokens have been added, changed and removed over the years? are the relevant pieces the houses and hotels?
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby LemonCurry » Tue Jan 24, 2017 6:44 am

Redwine

Does Alice have children? irrel Relevant? Was any of Alice's equipment destroyed or damaged by a loose plastic Monopoly piece, what would not have happened had the piece been made from the previous material? no

GalFisk
Were the pieces injection molded? Don't know, and not really relevant Were different pieces made in separate compartments of the same mold? irrel Were different pieces the same color? no! Relevant which color(s) were used? just that they were different Color blindness relevant? no Were the pieces stuck together when delivered, and had to be separated by someone before playing the game? no

Grip

Are the relevant pieces the player tokens?
yes, but beware FA
is it relevant that tokens have been added, changed and removed over the years? not this
are the relevant pieces the houses and hotels? no

Very interesting questions. I guess there's a couple of FAs around, though
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby RedWine » Tue Jan 24, 2017 8:47 am

Was there only one relevant game set? Were there, at any point, relevantly mixed pieces: old material ones and new material ones?
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby LemonCurry » Tue Jan 24, 2017 9:14 am

Was there only one relevant game set? More than one game set is relevant
Were there, at any point, relevantly mixed pieces: old material ones and new material ones? not this
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby RedWine » Tue Jan 24, 2017 9:18 am

Are the relevant game sets relevantly different from one another? Does Alice work with children? Does Alice work with money?
Were the pieces initially painted? And then did the company switch to making them out of differently colored plastic, thus no need to paint them?
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby LemonCurry » Tue Jan 24, 2017 9:25 am

Are the relevant game sets relevantly different from one another? yes Does Alice work with children? no
Does Alice work with money? no
Were the pieces initially painted? not relevantly
And then did the company switch to making them out of differently colored plastic, thus no need to paint them FA, there was no "switch"
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby RedWine » Tue Jan 24, 2017 10:16 am

Was the only relevant business decision of the Unrelated Company to produce Monopoly players tokens from plastic instead of the material they used earlier? Did anything else about the pieces change as well? Is size of the pieces relevant? Are exact colors of the pieces relevant?
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby LemonCurry » Tue Jan 24, 2017 10:33 am

Was the only relevant business decision of the Unrelated Company to produce Monopoly players tokens from plastic instead of the material they used earlier? No
Did anything else about the pieces change as well? yes
Is size of the pieces relevant? not directly Are exact colors of the pieces relevant? the exact colours are not relevant
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby RedWine » Tue Jan 24, 2017 11:36 am

Did the colors of the pieces change? Did the number of the pieces change? Did the shape of the pieces change?
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby LemonCurry » Tue Jan 24, 2017 11:40 am

Did the colors of the pieces change? yes
Did the number of the pieces change? possibly but irrelevant
Did the shape of the pieces change? yes, most relevant
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby RedWine » Tue Jan 24, 2017 11:46 am

Were the pieces changed in a way that their production required less material than before? Do both "old pieces" and "new pieces" play a role in Alice's trouble? Or is it more like Alice wouldn't have gotten into trouble had the pieces remain unchanged?
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby LemonCurry » Tue Jan 24, 2017 11:56 am

Were the pieces changed in a way that their production required less material than before? irrelevant
Do both "old pieces" and "new pieces" play a role in Alice's trouble?
Or is it more like Alice wouldn't have gotten into trouble had the pieces remain unchanged? This, the "change" caused the trouble
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby Grip » Tue Jan 24, 2017 1:21 pm

Are any of the numerous special Monopoly sets (i.e. New York City, Lord of the Rings, Boston Red Sox) relevant? or perhaps the ones that modify the original game (i.e. Electronic Banking, Quick Play?)
or are dealing with only the standard game?

Is any token in particular more relevant than others?
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby LemonCurry » Tue Jan 24, 2017 1:35 pm

Are any of the numerous special Monopoly sets (i.e. New York City, Lord of the Rings, Boston Red Sox) relevant? No
or perhaps the ones that modify the original game (i.e. Electronic Banking, Quick Play?) No
or are dealing with only the standard game? Yes, or maybe I should say DOYD

Is any token in particular more relevant than others? Yes indeed
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby Grip » Tue Jan 24, 2017 1:39 pm

Is the relevant token the dog? shoe? iron? car? hat? thimble?

Does Alice sell stuff on Ebay?
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby LemonCurry » Tue Jan 24, 2017 1:43 pm

Is the relevant token the dog? shoe? iron? car? This hat? thimble?

Does Alice sell stuff on Ebay? Good idea, but No
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby Grip » Tue Jan 24, 2017 1:49 pm

Is Alice in the used car business?
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby LemonCurry » Tue Jan 24, 2017 1:51 pm

Is Alice in the used car business? no
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby RedWine » Tue Jan 24, 2017 1:51 pm

Did the design of the token change during years? Did the relevant token resemble the actual car model?
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby LemonCurry » Tue Jan 24, 2017 1:55 pm

Did the design of the token change during years? irrelevant
Did the relevant token resemble the actual car model? irrelevant
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby RedWine » Tue Jan 24, 2017 2:02 pm

Does Alice design things? Or websites?
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby LemonCurry » Tue Jan 24, 2017 2:11 pm

Does Alice design things? no Or websites? no
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby GalFisk » Thu Jan 26, 2017 4:40 pm

Did the car resemble some other car? Did she base something on the shape of the car? Did she have the monopoly piece that was a car at hand?
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby RedWine » Thu Jan 26, 2017 6:45 pm

Is [LTPF list of professional fields] in order here?
If Alice had not managed the problem, would she have lost money? Would she have not receive money? Would she have faced unexpected expense? Would she have lost clientele? Would she have lost good reputation?
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby LemonCurry » Thu Jan 26, 2017 8:13 pm

GalFisk

Did the car resemble some other car? no Did she base something on the shape of the car? no Did she have the monopoly piece that was a car at hand? no

RedWine
Is [LTPF list of professional fields] in order here?
Alice works in "other business services". Invoking a longer list would give too much away :)
If Alice had not managed the problem, would she have lost money? Would she have not receive money? Would she have faced unexpected expense? no to this, everything else is possible she have lost clientele? Would she have lost good reputation?
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby Grip » Thu Jan 26, 2017 10:18 pm

Is the updated version of Monopoly that was released some time back relevant?
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby RedWine » Thu Jan 26, 2017 11:43 pm

Does she work for the university? Is her job administrative? Is she a journalist? Does she write novels?
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby LemonCurry » Fri Jan 27, 2017 6:49 am

Grip
Is the updated version of Monopoly that was released some time back relevant? I guess not

RedWine

Does she work for the university? no Is her job administrative? no Is she a journalist? no Does she write novels? noish, but getting closer
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby GalFisk » Fri Jan 27, 2017 8:41 am

Does she make instructions? Does she ask someone else to do something relevant with the monopoly car?
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby RedWine » Fri Jan 27, 2017 9:05 am

Is her job related to arts? Does she make translations? Is she in the movie industry? Was she aware of the change of Monopoly tokens when the problem occured?
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby LemonCurry » Fri Jan 27, 2017 9:19 am

Is her job related to arts?
Does she make translations? YES, she is a translator
Is she in the movie industry?
Was she aware of the change of Monopoly tokens when the problem occured? probably yes, for SVV of "Change of Monopoly Tokens"
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby RedWine » Fri Jan 27, 2017 9:23 am

When the problem occured, was she translating a book? an instruction? an article? a document?
Did whatever she was translating refer to Monopoly? Is it relevant which languages was she translating?
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby LemonCurry » Fri Jan 27, 2017 9:52 am

When the problem occured, was she translating a book? this an instruction? an article? a document?
Did whatever she was translating refer to Monopoly? yes, at one point
Is it relevant which languages was she translating? English to German (of course :)), but English to a couple of other languages would probably work too, I'm not sure which ones, though
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby RedWine » Fri Jan 27, 2017 10:20 am

Did she translate a crime story, in which the Monopoly piece was crucial to the plot, and while the author was referring to the "old" piece, Alice referred to the "new" one (or other way round), thus ruining the intrigue?
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby LemonCurry » Fri Jan 27, 2017 10:56 am

Did she translate a crime story, Not this
in which the Monopoly piece was crucial to the plot, Yes, for svv of "plot"
and while the author was referring to the "old" piece Yes, but there might still be an FA regarding "old" and "new" pieces,
Alice referred to the "new" one (or other way round), thus ruining the intrigue?
What Alice actually did is no more part of the puzzle. Why couldn't she just stay with the "old piece"?
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby Grip » Fri Jan 27, 2017 5:31 pm

Was Alice translating a non-fiction book?

Is the element of lead relevant?
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby LemonCurry » Mon Jan 30, 2017 6:56 am

Was Alice translating a non-fiction book? Yope, it probably counts as non-fiction, but has fictional elements in it

Is the element of lead relevant? you mean the metal? no
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby Grip » Mon Jan 30, 2017 4:55 pm

Was Alice translating a rule book or a manual for the Monopoly game?
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby LemonCurry » Mon Jan 30, 2017 7:34 pm

Was Alice translating a rule book or a manual for the Monopoly game? no
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby RedWine » Tue Jan 31, 2017 11:15 am

Was Alice translating a scenario? A trivia book? a history book? a scientific paper?
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby LemonCurry » Tue Jan 31, 2017 1:12 pm

Was Alice translating a scenario? A trivia book? a history book? a scientific paper?
No to all, but the book contains some trivia and history
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby RedWine » Tue Jan 31, 2017 1:31 pm

Is it an encyclopaedia? Is it a book in traditional form? Some kind of online data?
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby LemonCurry » Tue Jan 31, 2017 1:34 pm

Is it an encyclopaedia? no Is it a book in traditional form? yes Some kind of online data? no, but it could have been if this had happened later
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby RedWine » Tue Jan 31, 2017 1:39 pm

Is it a school manual or workbook? Is it used by children? By adults? Would it be likely to find a book of this type in a library? Is it a novel? A set of short texts? Does it have pictures?
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby LemonCurry » Tue Jan 31, 2017 2:39 pm

Is it a school manual or workbook? no Is it used by children? By adults? more likely by adults Would it be likely to find a book of this type in a library? I've never seen such book in a library, but why not? Is it a novel? no A set of short texts? yope Does it have pictures? possibly, not sure
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby RedWine » Tue Jan 31, 2017 3:14 pm

Is it a type of book people read for pleasure? For work? For education? Does it pertain to a specific scientific field? Is it a worldwide known book? Is it a set of poems? Can its contents be easily classified into one literary genre?
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby Grip » Tue Jan 31, 2017 4:54 pm

Is the word for the new car token material harder to translate than the old one?
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby LemonCurry » Tue Jan 31, 2017 6:09 pm

RedWine
Is it a type of book people read for pleasure? yes For work? noFor education? possibly Does it pertain to a specific scientific field? noish Is it a worldwide known book? no Is it a set of poems? no Can its contents be easily classified into one literary genre? no

Grip

Is the word for the new car token material harder to translate than the old one? irrel, and FA
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby RedWine » Thu Feb 02, 2017 9:37 pm

The only relevant business decision is to replace old Monopoly tokens with new ones, car being among them, made from other material, correct?
Does the book translated by Alice pertain at all to the Monopoly? Did Alice have a Monopoly set?
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby LemonCurry » Fri Feb 03, 2017 8:27 am

The only relevant business decision is to replace old Monopoly tokens with new ones, car being among them, made from other material, correct?
Yes, for SVV of "old", "new", "replace" and "token". Please explore, I guess there's at least one FA
Does the book translated by Alice pertain at all to the Monopoly? yes Did Alice have a Monopoly set? irrelevant
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby RedWine » Fri Feb 03, 2017 8:50 am

Ok, so let's try to trace down the FA:

Did the producers of Monopoly change all the players' tokens? Some of them? Just car? Did the game previously use tokens at all?
Is there anything relevant about the tokens before the change happened? Does the only relevant change concern material the tokens are made of?
Is it important that all Monopoly tokens are of the same color? Is it important why Monopoly uses the tokens that feature different items instead of set of same-shaped but differently-colored tokens?

Does the book describe a particular Monopoly match? The game set, but not the match?
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby LemonCurry » Fri Feb 03, 2017 9:23 am

Ok, so let's try to trace down the FA:

Did the producers of Monopoly change all the players' tokens? Yes, but beware FA Some of them? Just car? Did the game previously use tokens at all? Yes, but...
Is there anything relevant about the tokens before the change happened? No, but explore what "the change" actually was Does the only relevant change concern material the tokens are made of? No
Is it important that all Monopoly tokens are of the same color? no Is it important why Monopoly uses the tokens that feature different items instead of set of same-shaped but differently-colored tokens? actually not, but...

Does the book describe a particular Monopoly match? Yesish
The game set, but not the match? no
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby RedWine » Fri Feb 03, 2017 9:25 am

Did the Monopoly actually used to use sets of same-shaped but differently-colored tokens?
Did the producers of Monopoly change all the players' tokens but only the change concerning car is relevant? Did the game previously use less tokens? Bigger tokens? Heavier tokens? Precious tokens?
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby LemonCurry » Fri Feb 03, 2017 9:34 am

Did the Monopoly actually used to use sets of same-shaped but differently-colored tokens? Not this
Did the producers of Monopoly change all the players' tokens but only the change concerning car is relevant? Yes
Did the game previously use less tokens? no Bigger tokens? irrel Heavier tokens? possible Precious tokens? I wouldn't clall them precious

There is still an FA concerning the usage of "previously", "used to", "old" etc...
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby RedWine » Fri Feb 03, 2017 9:55 am

Are different Monopoly game sets in use? Did the company produce different game sets at the same time? Do different Monopoly sets use different tokens?
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby LemonCurry » Fri Feb 03, 2017 9:59 am

Are different Monopoly game sets in use? Yes Did the company produce different game sets at the same time? Yes, for SVV of "the Company". explore
Do different Monopoly sets use different tokens? yes
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby RedWine » Fri Feb 03, 2017 11:39 am

Is there more than one company who produce Monopoly sets? Did Alice in her translation refer to wrong game set?
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby LemonCurry » Fri Feb 03, 2017 11:50 am

Is there more than one company who produce Monopoly sets? I think so (at the time of the puzzle), but the puzzle would work if not
Did Alice in her translation refer to wrong game set? Noish, Alice made no relevant mistakes
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby RedWine » Mon Feb 06, 2017 3:17 pm

Did Alice make the translation and get in trouble at the same time? Or is it more like Alice made the translation, Monopoly pieces changed and after next 30 years Alice got in trouble?
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby LemonCurry » Wed Feb 08, 2017 7:11 am

Did Alice make the translation and get in trouble at the same time? Or is it more like Alice made the translation, Monopoly pieces changed and after next 30 years Alice got in trouble? No to These - the "trouble" was just a hard translation problem to solve
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby GalFisk » Wed Feb 08, 2017 7:18 am

Did the piece change after the original text was written? Before the translation was attempted? Did Alice know about the change? Did she research it?
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby LemonCurry » Wed Feb 08, 2017 7:31 am

Did the piece change after the original text was written? no Before the translation was attempted? yes Did Alice know about the change? Yes, either beforehand or after doing research Did she research it? possibly
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby GalFisk » Wed Feb 08, 2017 8:21 am

Did the original writer know about the change? Was the change worldwide?
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby LemonCurry » Wed Feb 08, 2017 9:24 am

Did the original writer know about the change? irrel, assume no
Was the change worldwide? NO!
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby RedWine » Wed Feb 08, 2017 9:53 am

So did the piece change before the original text was written? Is yes, was the author aware of the change? If author was not aware of the change, did Alice need to establish whether referring to "incorrect" piece was deliberate or just a mistake?
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby LemonCurry » Wed Feb 08, 2017 12:47 pm

So did the piece change before the original text was written? Yes
Is yes, was the author aware of the change? irrel, assume no
If author was not aware of the change, did Alice need to establish whether referring to "incorrect" piece was deliberate or just a mistake?
It was obviously deliberate to refer to the "old" piece
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby Grip » Wed Feb 08, 2017 4:03 pm

Is the UK version of Monopoly relevant? some other countries version?

Was the issue that some places (countries?) had the change and others didn't?
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby RedWine » Wed Feb 08, 2017 5:09 pm

Did Alice translate the book with its reference to "old" piece? Did she change the reference so that it described the "new" piece? If the latter, did it change the meaning of the story?
Was the name of the "old" piece particularly difficult to translate? Would the German reader catch the reference to the "old" piece? If she was translating to French, would it still be an issue?
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby LemonCurry » Fri Feb 10, 2017 9:15 am

Grip
Is the UK version of Monopoly relevant? yope Some other country's version?
yes, the German version (and maybe Austria and Switzerland)

Was the issue that some places (countries?) had the change and others didn't?
yes, with the "change" already appearing upon introduction in these countries

RedWine

Did Alice translate the book with its reference to "old" piece? yes Did she change the reference so that it described the "new" piece? yes, actually If the latter, did it change the meaning of the story? yope, OTRT
Was the name of the "old" piece particularly difficult to translate? no, language is not the issue
Would the German reader catch the reference to the "old" piece? no! If she was translating to French, would it still be an issue? possibly, not sure
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby Grip » Tue Feb 14, 2017 6:20 pm

Is the cars design relevant? relevant that at one time it had the number 3 on it?
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby LemonCurry » Wed Feb 15, 2017 7:34 am

Is the cars design relevant? no relevant that at one time it had the number 3 on it? no
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby GalFisk » Tue Feb 21, 2017 6:52 am

Is the color of the car relevant? The size? The shape? The weight? The material? Surface finish relevant?
WAG: Was the original car painted, and a reference made to the paint being worn (meaning the game was played a lot/the piece a popular one), while the cheap one was just uniformly coloured plastic?
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby LemonCurry » Tue Feb 21, 2017 7:06 am

Is the color of the car relevant? The size? The shape? The weight? The material? Surface finish relevant? No to these

WAG: Was the original car painted, and a reference made to the paint being worn (meaning the game was played a lot/the piece a popular one), while the cheap one was just uniformly coloured plastic? Intereseting idea, but no - and still an FA
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby GalFisk » Tue Feb 21, 2017 3:16 pm

Did the story refer to: one Monopoly car piece in particular? "The Monopoly car" as a game piece in general?
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby LemonCurry » Tue Feb 21, 2017 3:19 pm

Did the story refer to: one Monopoly car piece in particular? yes "The Monopoly car" as a game piece in general? no
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby RedWine » Wed Feb 22, 2017 9:31 am

Is it relevant what specifically happened to the car piece in the story? Was it used to play the game? Was the "car" piece available only in some country versions of the game and unavailable in others?
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby LemonCurry » Wed Feb 22, 2017 11:24 am

Is it relevant what specifically happened to the car piece in the story? Yesish Was it used to play the game? Yes
Was the "car" piece available only in some country versions of the game and unavailable in others? Yes, and not only the car piece
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby RedWine » Wed Feb 22, 2017 11:55 am

In the story, was the car piece used to play the set of the game in which there is no car piece? Did the author of the story make a mistake? If yes, did Alice try to rectify the mistake of the author? Was she then accused of making wrong (or inaccurate) translation?
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby LemonCurry » Wed Feb 22, 2017 12:10 pm

In the story, was the car piece used to play the set of the game in which there is no car piece? no
Did the author of the story make a mistake? not at all If yes, did Alice try to rectify the mistake of the author?
Was she then accused of making wrong (or inaccurate) translation?
probably by someone - but actually, the "trouble on the job" just consists of Alice having a tricky translation task, so this is no more part of the puzzle
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby GalFisk » Wed Feb 22, 2017 4:32 pm

In the story, was the piece used? If so, for playing Monopoly? Was it seen? Lost? Found? Damaged? Admired? A clue? Evidence?
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby LemonCurry » Thu Feb 23, 2017 7:24 am

In the story, was the piece used? yes If so, for playing Monopoly? yes Was it seen? only by the players Lost? no Found? no Damaged? no Admired? no A clue? yes, but beware FA Evidence? no
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby GalFisk » Thu Feb 23, 2017 7:56 am

Was it relevantly used during: one game? A few? A lot? Was it used by: a specific player? A few players? Anyone who played? Was there a dispute over who got to use it? Was there some other game-related dispute? Are the player(s) who used it relevant? Was it used for anything besides playing the game?
Edit: does the monopoly car have any cultural significance in the countries where the original pieces were sold with the game?
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby LemonCurry » Thu Feb 23, 2017 8:33 am

Was it relevantly used during: one game? this A few? A lot?
Was it used by: a specific player? so this A few players? Anyone who played?
Was there a dispute over who got to use it? no Was there some other game-related dispute? no
Are the player(s) who used it relevant? some aspects are
Was it used for anything besides playing the game? no
Edit: does the monopoly car have any cultural significance in the countries where the original pieces were sold with the game? not sure, irrelevant
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby GalFisk » Thu Feb 23, 2017 4:27 pm

Age of the player relevant? Gender? How the game went for that player? Did he car user play against one opponent? 2? 3? 4? 5? More? Relevant which pieces the other players used?
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby LemonCurry » Thu Feb 23, 2017 8:31 pm

Age of the player relevant? Gender? the player was HAM, otherwise irrelevant How the game went for that player? the car player did not win Did he car user play against one opponent? 2? 3? 4? 5? More? Relevant which pieces the other players used? everything else is not relevant
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby GalFisk » Sat Feb 25, 2017 9:14 am

Relevant how the player reacted to not winning? Relevant how the winner reacted? Was the game put back in its box correctly and completely afterwards? Relevant who owned the game?
Edit: is some sort of forfeit or punishmemt for losing relevant? Reward for winning?
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby LemonCurry » Sat Feb 25, 2017 9:18 am

Relevant how the player reacted to not winning? Relevant how the winner reacted? Was the game put back in its box correctly and completely afterwards? Relevant who owned the game?
Edit: is some sort of forfeit or punishmemt for losing relevant? Reward for winning?
I regret all of these are not relevant
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby GalFisk » Sat Feb 25, 2017 9:24 am

Relevant what happened during the game, except that he didn't win? Relevant why he chose the car? Earlier games relevant? Relevant why they wanted to play? Was the car spoken of after the game? Was a reference to the car made in order to infer that someone ir something is not a winner?
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby LemonCurry » Sat Feb 25, 2017 2:04 pm

Relevant what happened during the game, except that he didn't win? one detail is relevant Relevant why he chose the car? Earlier games relevant? Relevant why they wanted to play? Was the car spoken of after the game? Was a reference to the car made in order to infer that someone ir something is not a winner? no/irrel to rest
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby GalFisk » Sat Feb 25, 2017 4:05 pm

Relevant detail: how the winner won? Something that happened within the gameplay? On the board? Dice relevant? Cheating relevant?
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby LemonCurry » Sat Feb 25, 2017 6:34 pm

Relevant detail: how the winner won? yope Something that happened within the gameplay? yes On the board? yes Dice relevant? Cheating relevant? no to rest
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby GalFisk » Sat Feb 25, 2017 7:29 pm

Did the car land on a relevant square? Did someone else? Is a specific property relevant? Did the relevant thing happen near the end of the game? The start? During setup?
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby Acridian9 » Sun Feb 26, 2017 4:56 am

The famous Monopoly lateral puzzle relevant?

Is there a car token in the German version? If yes, is it relevantly different from the car token of the standard version?
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Re: [LemonCurry] Mr Lambert must have been there too

Postby LemonCurry » Mon Feb 27, 2017 7:48 am

GalFisk
Did the car land on a relevant square? Did someone else? Is a specific property relevant? Did the relevant thing happen near the end of the game? The start? During setup? see below

Acridian9
The famous Monopoly lateral puzzle relevant?
well, a little, yes...

Is there a car token in the German version?
NO (at the time of the puzzle, that is)
If yes, is it relevantly different from the car token of the standard version?

SPOILER

In the 1990's, Alice was supposed to translate a couple of Paul Sloane's Lateral Puzzle books into German. Among many nearly-impossible-to-translate puzzles was, quite unexpected, the Monopoly puzzle "A man pushes his car up to a hotel..." - because at the time, most Germans have never heard of a Monopoly car.

Prior to 2000, the standard German Monopoly sets came with ordinary playing pieces intead of the classic Monopoly tokens, apparently because the publisher intended to save on production costs. (They also had multplied all montary figures by 20, which might have been about the Dollar-Mark exchange rate at one time, but reminds me a bit of the Monty Python "buying a bed" sketch where one assistant multplies everything by ten and the other one puts a paper bag over his head whenever someone says Mattress)


of course, they are quite a lot of lateral puzzles that are hard to translate, which might be the reason why the German LTP books were discontinued. And I don't really know if the books were translated by a single person and if he or she was called Alice. But the Monopoly puzzle was in there...
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