[JenBurdoo] Folksong Puzzle 7: Rye Jackson has "the Talk."

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[JenBurdoo] Folksong Puzzle 7: Rye Jackson has "the Talk."

Postby JenBurdoo » Tue Apr 04, 2017 3:25 pm

"Who was my mother?"

"I'm afraid I never met her, my son. Even your stepfather doesn't know."

"Does it have anything to do with my name?"

"Er, yes..."

"I get teased about that name all the time, you know."

"I'm sorry about that, my son."

"Am I gonna have to play Twenty Questions to get the story out of you?"

"Good thing you have friends at the LTPF, then."
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Re: Folksong Puzzle 7: Rye Jackson gets "the Talk."

Postby GalFisk » Tue Apr 04, 2017 3:30 pm

Son: H? A? M? Was the son named by the mother? By the stepfather? By someone else? Is the person answering the questions of "Son": a character in the folksong? The singer? A narrator? A stepparent? You, Jenburdoo? Does "Son" also have a stepmother? Was he adopted? Was he abandoned? Given away? Kidnapped?
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Re: Folksong Puzzle 7: Rye Jackson has "the Talk."

Postby JenBurdoo » Tue Apr 04, 2017 3:52 pm

Son: H? Yes. A? Assume child or teen. M? Yes. Was the son named by the mother? Yope. By the stepfather? Yes. By someone else? No. Is the person answering the questions of "Son": a character in the folksong? Yes. The singer? A narrator? A stepparent? You, Jenburdoo? No to all. Does "Son" also have a stepmother? Assume no. Was he adopted? Assume yes. Was he abandoned? Yesish. Given away? Yesish. Kidnapped? No.
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Re: Folksong Puzzle 7: Rye Jackson has "the Talk."

Postby GalFisk » Tue Apr 04, 2017 3:58 pm

Was the son named after the mother? Relation between the mother and stepfather relevant? Did they ever meet? Relation between Son and "I" relevant? Between "I" and stepfather? Is Son named Rye Jackson? Is anyone else? Is anything mythical or supernatural relevant?
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Re: Folksong Puzzle 7: Rye "Gay Bungler" Jackson has "the Ta

Postby JenBurdoo » Tue Apr 04, 2017 4:06 pm

Was the son named after the mother? No. Relation between the mother and stepfather relevant? For SVV of "relation," yes. Did they ever meet? Yes. Relation between Son and "I" relevant? Mildly. Between "I" and stepfather? Mildly. Is Son named Rye Jackson? Yes. Is anyone else? No. Is anything mythical or supernatural relevant? No.
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Re: Folksong Puzzle 7: Rye "Gay Bungler" Jackson has "the Ta

Postby Balin » Wed Apr 05, 2017 10:54 am

Is the son named "Rye" because of the grain? The bread? The alcohol?
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Re: Folksong Puzzle 7: Rye "Gay Bungler" Jackson has "the Ta

Postby JenBurdoo » Wed Apr 05, 2017 12:12 pm

Is the son named "Rye" because of the grain? The bread? The alcohol? This, with an ish.
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Re: Folksong Puzzle 7: Rye "Gay Bungler" Jackson has "the Ta

Postby GalFisk » Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:57 pm

Some alcohol with rye as an ingredient? Relevant why he's named Jackson?
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Re: Folksong Puzzle 7: Rye "Gay Bungler" Jackson has "the Ta

Postby JenBurdoo » Wed Apr 05, 2017 2:51 pm

Some alcohol with rye as an ingredient? No alcohol is actually present in the course of the story, but... Relevant why he's named Jackson? Yes.
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Re: Folksong Puzzle 7: Rye "Gay Bungler" Jackson has "the Ta

Postby GalFisk » Wed Apr 05, 2017 3:20 pm

Was alcohol present before the story? After? Is failing to make or obtain alcohol relevant? Is the actual father of Rye relevant?
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Re: Folksong Puzzle 7: Rye "Gay Bungler" Jackson has "the Ta

Postby JenBurdoo » Wed Apr 05, 2017 4:32 pm

Was alcohol present before the story? After? No to both. Is failing to make or obtain alcohol relevant? Failing to obtain, sort of. Is the actual father of Rye relevant? No.
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Re: Folksong Puzzle 7: Rye "Gay Bungler" Jackson has "the Ta

Postby Balin » Wed Apr 05, 2017 9:45 pm

Is "Jackson" the child's last name? Middle name? Doubled first name?
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Re: Folksong Puzzle 7: Rye "Gay Bungler" Jackson has "the Ta

Postby JenBurdoo » Wed Apr 05, 2017 11:38 pm

Is "Jackson" the child's last name? Assume this. Middle name? Doubled first name?
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Re: Folksong Puzzle 7: Rye "Gay Bungler" Jackson has "the Ta

Postby Hobbsicle » Sun Apr 09, 2017 1:47 am

Is Jackson the stepfather's name? Or does he give him that name?

Did his mother actually marry his stepfather? Or give Rye to him directly?

Is prohibition relevant?
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Re: Folksong Puzzle 7: Rye "Gay Bungler" Jackson has "the Ta

Postby JenBurdoo » Sun Apr 09, 2017 2:02 am

Is Jackson the stepfather's name? No. Or does he give him that name? The stepfather's name is Jack, hence his stepson's name is assumed to be Jackson.

Did his mother actually marry his stepfather? No. Or give Rye to him directly? This.

Is prohibition relevant? No.
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Re: Folksong Puzzle 7: Rye "Gay Bungler" Jackson has "the Ta

Postby Hobbsicle » Thu Apr 13, 2017 10:44 pm

Did his mother give him to the "stepfather" because she was in danger? Rye was in danger? She was going somewhere Rye couldn't go? Prison? Because she had poor health? Was unable to care for him in some way? Is it relevant what her knowledge of stepfather is? Why she chose him? Was he the only person around at the time?
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Re: Folksong Puzzle 7: Rye "Gay Bungler" Jackson has "the Ta

Postby JenBurdoo » Sat Apr 15, 2017 1:59 am

Did his mother give him to the "stepfather" because she was in danger? Rye was in danger? She was going somewhere Rye couldn't go? Prison? Because she had poor health? Was unable to care for him in some way? Possibly. Is it relevant what her knowledge of stepfather is? Slightly. Why she chose him? Slightly. Was he the only person around at the time? Probably not.

None of the others.
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Re: Folksong Puzzle 7: Rye "Gay Bungler" Jackson has "the Ta

Postby Hobbsicle » Mon Apr 17, 2017 1:22 am

Stepfather's occupation relevant? Political figure? Religious figure? Member of the law? Bar owner?

Does she give him away for selfish motives? Sell him? Trade him for alcohol?
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Re: Folksong Puzzle 7: Rye "Gay Bungler" Jackson has "the Ta

Postby JenBurdoo » Mon Apr 17, 2017 6:16 pm

Stepfather's occupation relevant? Yes. Political figure? Religious figure? Member of the law? Bar owner? None of these.

Does she give him away for selfish motives? Assume yes. Sell him? No, but... Trade him for alcohol? No.
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Re: Folksong Puzzle 7: Rye "Gay Bungler" Jackson has "the Ta

Postby Hobbsicle » Thu Apr 20, 2017 4:01 am

Does she expect something in return for giving him away? Something from stepfather?
Is stepfather's occupation related to alcohol? To farming? To physical labor? To manufacturing? To selling things?
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Re: Folksong Puzzle 7: Rye "Gay Bungler" Jackson has "the Ta

Postby JenBurdoo » Thu Apr 20, 2017 4:57 am

Does she expect something in return for giving him away? Something from stepfather? No to both.
Is stepfather's occupation related to alcohol? No, but... To farming? To physical labor? This, primarily, but then most jobs in folksong are backbreaking and lead to poverty... To manufacturing? To selling things? None of the others.
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Re: Folksong Puzzle 7: Rye "Gay Bungler" Jackson has "the Ta

Postby Hobbsicle » Sun Apr 23, 2017 1:35 am

Is either mother or stepfather relevantly alcoholic? Drunk? Sober?

Are railroads relevant? Mills? Mining? Construction?
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Re: Folksong Puzzle 7: Rye "Gay Bungler" Jackson has "the Ta

Postby JenBurdoo » Sun Apr 23, 2017 3:29 am

Is either mother or stepfather relevantly alcoholic? Drunk? Sober? They are both sober, but...

Are railroads relevant? Mills? Mining? Construction? The relevant industry is sailing.
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Re: Folksong Puzzle 7: Rye "Gay Bungler" Jackson has "the Ta

Postby GalFisk » Sun Apr 23, 2017 6:07 am

Has anyone in the puzzle been relevantly drunk? Wanted to get drunk but been unable to?
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Re: Folksong Puzzle 7: Rye "Gay Bungler" Jackson has "the Ta

Postby JenBurdoo » Sun Apr 23, 2017 6:47 am

Has anyone in the puzzle been relevantly drunk? No. Wanted to get drunk but been unable to? Yes.
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Re: Folksong Puzzle 7: Rye "Gay Bungler" Jackson has "the Ta

Postby GalFisk » Sun Apr 23, 2017 10:01 am

Wanted but couldn't get drunk: the mother? The stepfather? The child? The person answering the questions? Someone else?
Couldn't get drunk because: no alcohol available? Unable to swallow? Too young to buy? Prohibition? Not allowed to drink by someone else? Pregnant? An accident spilling or destroying alcohol? A brewing or distilling mishap? A medical condition? Not being affected by alcohol? Being affected by some other drug? Antabus relevant?
Wanted to get drunk in order to: have fun? Sleep? Drown sorrows? Fit in? Get courage? Relax? Fight a disease? Or a symptom? Fix a hangover? Cure boredom? Have a blackout? Become social? Feel warm? Lose coordination? Get arrested?
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Re: Folksong Puzzle 7: Rye "Gay Bungler" Jackson has "the Ta

Postby JenBurdoo » Sun Apr 23, 2017 4:10 pm

Wanted but couldn't get drunk: the mother? The stepfather? This. The child? The person answering the questions? Someone else?
Couldn't get drunk because: no alcohol available? This. Unable to swallow? Too young to buy? Prohibition? Not allowed to drink by someone else? Pregnant? An accident spilling or destroying alcohol? A brewing or distilling mishap? A medical condition? Not being affected by alcohol? Being affected by some other drug? Antabus relevant?
Wanted to get drunk in order to: have fun? Assume this. Sleep? Drown sorrows? Fit in? Get courage? Relax? Fight a disease? Or a symptom? Fix a hangover? Cure boredom? Have a blackout? Become social? Feel warm? Lose coordination? Get arrested?
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Re: Folksong Puzzle 7: Rye "Gay Bungler" Jackson has "the Ta

Postby GalFisk » Sun Apr 23, 2017 4:43 pm

Did the stepfather want to get drunk: before becoming a stepfather? Right before? During? After? Long after? Was he given the child instead of alcohol?
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Re: Folksong Puzzle 7: Rye "Gay Bungler" Jackson has "the Ta

Postby JenBurdoo » Sun Apr 23, 2017 7:48 pm

Did the stepfather want to get drunk: before becoming a stepfather? Right before? This. During? After? Long after? Was he given the child instead of alcohol? Yes.
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Re: Folksong Puzzle 7: Rye "Gay Bungler" Jackson has "the Ta

Postby Balin » Sun Apr 23, 2017 9:13 pm

Was he given the child at the christening?
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Re: Folksong Puzzle 7: Rye "Gay Bungler" Jackson has "the Ta

Postby JenBurdoo » Mon Apr 24, 2017 3:05 am

Was he given the child at the christening? No, but the christening is relevant.
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Re: Folksong Puzzle 7: Rye "Gay Bungler" Jackson has "the Ta

Postby GalFisk » Tue Apr 25, 2017 3:25 am

Was the child christened before being given to him? After? Was it given so that it could be christened? Or in order to avoid it being christened? Did he christen the child?
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Re: Folksong Puzzle 7: Rye "Gay Bungler" Jackson has "the Ta

Postby JenBurdoo » Tue Apr 25, 2017 4:31 am

Was the child christened before being given to him? After? This. Was it given so that it could be christened? Or in order to avoid it being christened? Did he christen the child? No to all else.
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Re: Folksong Puzzle 7: Rye "Gay Bungler" Jackson has "the Ta

Postby GalFisk » Tue Apr 25, 2017 4:35 am

Did he attend the christening? Was there alcohol at the christening? Was he able to obtain alcohol because of the child? Did he relevantly abstain from alcohol becaise of the child?
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Re: Folksong Puzzle 7: Rye "Gay Bungler" Jackson has "the Ta

Postby JenBurdoo » Tue Apr 25, 2017 4:40 am

Did he attend the christening? Yes. Was there alcohol at the christening? Irr. Was he able to obtain alcohol because of the child? No. Did he relevantly abstain from alcohol because of the child? Yope. Explore.
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Re: Folksong Puzzle 7: Rye "Gay Bungler" Jackson has "the Ta

Postby GalFisk » Tue Apr 25, 2017 6:24 am

Did he abstain at a relevant time? Was the child supposed to provide some of the effects that alcohol would have? Did he love the child? Relevant?
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Re: Folksong Puzzle 7: Rye "Gay Bungler" Jackson has "the Ta

Postby JenBurdoo » Tue Apr 25, 2017 5:15 pm

Did he abstain at a relevant time? Abstain is the wrong word. Was the child supposed to provide some of the effects that alcohol would have? No, FA. Did he love the child? Irr, assume yes. Relevant?
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Re: Folksong Puzzle 7: Rye "Gay Bungler" Jackson has "the Ta

Postby Hobbsicle » Sun Apr 30, 2017 2:45 am

Is he christened around the same time as he is given? Or some time later? Is he given at the christening itself? Is he given his name in the spur of the moment as he longs for a drink?
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Re: Folksong Puzzle 7: Rye "Gay Bungler" Jackson has "the Ta

Postby JenBurdoo » Sun Apr 30, 2017 5:05 am

Is he christened around the same time as he is given? Or some time later? Is he given at the christening itself? Is he given his name in the spur of the moment as he longs for a drink? No, but quite OTRT.

Not sure what's being asked in the other questions, so I'll say that Rye Jackson is given to his new stepdad shortly before he is given his name at the christening. His stepfather was probably longing for a drink, but this is not quite why the stepson gets his odd name.
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Re: Folksong Puzzle 7: Rye "Gay Bungler" Jackson has "the Ta

Postby Hobbsicle » Sat May 06, 2017 3:01 am

Does the stepfather intentionally name him Rye? Or is it something of an accident, as he says the word for another reason? If intentional, was it a spur-of-the-moment decision?
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Re: Folksong Puzzle 7: Rye "Gay Bungler" Jackson has "the Ta

Postby JenBurdoo » Sun May 07, 2017 1:29 am

Does the stepfather intentionally name him Rye? Yes. Or is it something of an accident, as he says the word for another reason? If intentional, was it a spur-of-the-moment decision? Assume yes, but it's not out of the blue.
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Re: Folksong Puzzle 7: Rye "Gay Bungler" Jackson has "the Ta

Postby Hobbsicle » Tue May 09, 2017 1:33 pm

Does the stepfather come up with the name? Or does he think that is the child's name, or is intended to be? Because of the mother's speech? Actions? Does he ask for rye, and is given the child?

Is the other speaker in the puzzle statement the a priest? Someone present at the christening?

Is the location of this exchange between mother and stepfather relevant? Does it take place at sea? At port? Otherwise on land?

Does the mother give Rye to stepfather because he is a sailor? Does she think he will be equipped to care for the child more than others? Or just wants the child to be sailed away from her?
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Re: Folksong Puzzle 7: Rye "Gay Bungler" Jackson has "the Ta

Postby JenBurdoo » Wed May 10, 2017 2:13 am

Does the stepfather come up with the name? Yes. Or does he think that is the child's name, or is intended to be? Because of the mother's speech? Yes. Actions? Does he ask for rye, and is given the child? No, but OTRT. Explore.

Is the other speaker in the puzzle statement the a priest? A parson. Someone present at the christening? Yes.

Is the location of this exchange between mother and stepfather relevant? Not particularly. Does it take place at sea? At port? Assume this. Otherwise on land? And this.

Does the mother give Rye to stepfather because he is a sailor? There are characteristics of sailors (particularly in folksong) that made him ideal for her purposes. Does she think he will be equipped to care for the child more than others? No. Or just wants the child to be sailed away from her? Not necessarily sailed, but OTRT.

Many constructive questions here!
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Re: Folksong Puzzle 7: Rye "Gay Bungler" Jackson has "the Ta

Postby JenBurdoo » Sun May 14, 2017 10:18 pm

Recap:

Jack is a sailor in the "age of sail," presumably in port. He obtains an infant boy from what what is assumed to be the boy's mother. With the assistance of a parson, he christens the boy "Rye," after the whiskey.

(The song stops there, but I extrapolate to assume he raises the boy as his stepson under the surname of Jackson, possibly leaving the parson to look after him while Jack is away sailing.)

The name Jack chose is due to something the mother said to him. It is inaccurate, but quite on the right track, to say he asked for whiskey and was given the boy; his desire for whiskey, and lack of it, is relevant.
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Re: Folksong Puzzle 7: Rye "Gay Bungler" Jackson has "the Ta

Postby Acridian9 » Mon May 15, 2017 10:39 am

"Obtains an infant boy"; did he want to obtain the boy? did the mother want to give the boy away? did she hope Jack would take the boy far away? did she give Jack the boy and something else? whiskey?

" It is inaccurate, but quite on the right track, to say he asked for whiskey": did he ask the mother for something different? Did the mother ask Jack for something?
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Re: Folksong Puzzle 7: Rye "Gay Bungler" Jackson has "the Ta

Postby peter365 » Mon May 15, 2017 11:15 am

Is grog relevant at all?
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Re: Folksong Puzzle 7: Rye "Gay Bungler" Jackson has "the Ta

Postby JenBurdoo » Mon May 15, 2017 7:33 pm

I'm surprised you don't recognize this one, Peter.

Is grog relevant at all? No.

"Obtains an infant boy"; did he want to obtain the boy? No. did the mother want to give the boy away? Yes. did she hope Jack would take the boy far away? Just that Jack would take him. did she give Jack the boy and something else? No, just the boy. whiskey?

" It is inaccurate, but quite on the right track, to say he asked for whiskey": did he ask the mother for something different? No. Did the mother ask Jack for something? She didn't ask him for something.
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Re: Folksong Puzzle 7: Rye "Gay Bungler" Jackson has "the Ta

Postby Acridian9 » Mon May 15, 2017 8:40 pm

Ok, so she asked Jack something: did she ask if he needed something? if he wanted something? whiskey? a boy?
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Re: Folksong Puzzle 7: Rye "Gay Bungler" Jackson has "the Ta

Postby JenBurdoo » Mon May 15, 2017 10:08 pm

Ok, so she asked Jack something: did she ask if he needed something? if he wanted something? This. whiskey? a boy? Yopish to both. Explore.
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Re: Folksong Puzzle 7: Rye "Gay Bungler" Jackson has "the Ta

Postby Acridian9 » Tue May 16, 2017 12:08 am

Did she ask a direct question like "Do you want _____?" ? or the request was more indirect?

Did she ask if he wanted:
- to do something? with her? for her? like marrying her or buying something for her?
- to receive something? like something to drink?
- to give her something? like money?

Btw, did she ever mention whiskey? other beverage?
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Re: Folksong Puzzle 7: Rye "Gay Bungler" Jackson has "the Ta

Postby JenBurdoo » Tue May 16, 2017 1:30 am

Did she ask a direct question like "Do you want _____?" ? This. or the request was more indirect? No.

Did she ask if he wanted:
- to do something? No. with her? for her? like marrying her or buying something for her?
- to receive something? Yes. like something to drink? She did mention rye.
- to give her something? Yes. like money? This.

Btw, did she ever mention whiskey? She used the word "rye." other beverage?
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Re: Folksong Puzzle 7: Rye "Gay Bungler" Jackson has "the Ta

Postby peter365 » Tue May 16, 2017 7:34 am

I'm afraid I don't know this song ....

Was her intention to get rid of her baby? Did she trick him into taking the baby by making him think she was giving him whiskey? Terribile thought this but did she hide the baby in a barrel ? And sell it to him?
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Re: Folksong Puzzle 7: Rye "Gay Bungler" Jackson has "the Ta

Postby Acridian9 » Tue May 16, 2017 11:16 am

Did she use the words "Gay Bungler"?
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Re: Folksong Puzzle 7: Rye "Gay Bungler" Jackson has "the Ta

Postby JenBurdoo » Tue May 16, 2017 11:52 pm

I'm afraid I don't know this song .... Hope you like it then!

Was her intention to get rid of her baby? Did she trick him into taking the baby by making him think she was giving him whiskey? Terribile thought this but did she hide the baby in a barrel ? And sell it to him? Yes to all!

Did she use the words "Gay Bungler"? No, but close enough to them that I imagine he got teased as a kid. See below.

Spoiler:

Now Jack was a sailor who roved on the town,
And she was a damsel who skipped up and down
Said the damsel to Jack, as she passed him by,
"Would you care for to purchase some quare bungle rye roddy rye?"
Fol the diddle rye roddy rye roddy rye!

Jack thought to himself, "Now what can this be,
"But the finest of whiskey from far Germany,
"Smuggled up in a basket, and sold on the sly,
"And the name that it goes by is quare bungle rye roddy rye?"

Jack gave her a pound, and thought nothing strange,
She said, "Hold you the basket, while I run for your change."
Jack peeped in the basket, and a child he did spy,
"Oh, be damned then," says Jack, "This is...?

To get the child christened, was Jack's next intent,
And to get the child christened, to the parson he went
Said the parson to Jack, "What will he go by?"
"Oh, be damned then," says Jack, "Call him...

Says the parson to Jack, "That's a mighty queer name."
Says Jack to the parson, "It's a queer way he came,"
"Snuggled up in a basket, and sold on the sly,
"And the name that he'll go by is...

So all you bold sailors who rove on the town,
Beware of the damsels who skip up and down,
Take a peep in their baskets as they pass you by,
Or else they may pawn on you ...

Clancy Brothers version:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6aTWPQVE6c

My version:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4C55m9QgcA
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Re: Folksong Puzzle 7:Rye Jackson has "the Talk." (Origin Fo

Postby peter365 » Fri May 19, 2017 7:21 am

I like it. The fact that the Clancys did a version of this makes it even more surprising to me that I'd never heard this one.
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Re: Folksong Puzzle 7:Rye Jackson has "the Talk." (Origin Fo

Postby Hobbsicle » Sat May 20, 2017 2:38 am

I like this one, and enjoyed your video. And I poked around at a couple of your others as well. Cool project!
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