[Balin] Inconvvff routes

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[Balin] Inconvvff routes

Postby Balin » Fri Apr 07, 2017 2:46 am

In order to prevent an inconvenience towards themselves, a group instituted a regulation benefiting a second group. Directly because of that, some time later, some members of that second group experienced the inconvenience. How?
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Re: [Balin] Inconvvff routes

Postby Grip » Fri Apr 07, 2017 5:16 pm

Is this related at all to travel?

Groups = humans? adults of both sexes?
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Re: [Balin] Inconvvff routes

Postby Balin » Fri Apr 07, 2017 10:32 pm

Is this related at all to travel? Yes

Groups = humans? adults of both sexes? Yes to both
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Re: [Balin] Inconvvff routes

Postby Grip » Fri Apr 07, 2017 10:38 pm

Specific modes of transportation relevant?
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Re: [Balin] Inconvvff routes

Postby Balin » Fri Apr 07, 2017 10:47 pm

Specific modes of transportation relevant? Yes
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Re: [Balin] Inconvvff routes

Postby Doriana » Sat Apr 08, 2017 1:47 pm

Cars relevant? busses? trains? subways? trams? planes? ferries? boats? bikes?
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Re: [Balin] Inconvvff routes

Postby irishelk » Sat Apr 08, 2017 2:55 pm

Did the second group benefit financially? Were they able to save time? Would the regulation be described as life-changing? Or more of a minor benefit? Does the first group work for a transportation authority?

Was the first group trying to influence the behavior of the second? Did the regulation achieve what the first group thought it would? Did the benefit put the second group in the same situation as the first?

Traffic relevant? Or any other kind of overcrowding?
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Re: [Balin] Inconvvff routes

Postby Balin » Sun Apr 09, 2017 12:18 pm

Cars relevant? buses? trains? subways? trams? planes? ferries? boats? bikes? Any type of public transportation will do. The story, though, focuses on buses.

Did the second group benefit financially? Yes Were they able to save time? Technically also Yes Would the regulation be described as life-changing? Or more of a minor benefit? This Does the first group work for a transportation authority? Yes; the first group is the mass transit authority

Was the first group trying to influence the behavior of the second? Yes Did the regulation achieve what the first group thought it would? Yes Did the benefit put the second group in the same situation as the first? No

Traffic relevant? Or any other kind of overcrowding? Neither
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Re: [Balin] Inconvvff routes

Postby Hobbsicle » Thu Apr 13, 2017 10:49 pm

Does the regulation apply to all public transportation? Or just buses? After the regulation, was the inconvenience only relevantly experienced by those who rode the buses?

The inconvenience to the mass transit authority:
Was it a financial burden? A time burden? Was the inconvenience experienced across all mass transit? Or just buses?
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Re: [Balin] Inconvvff routes

Postby Balin » Thu Apr 13, 2017 10:53 pm

Does the regulation apply to all public transportation? This Or just buses?
After the regulation, was the inconvenience only relevantly experienced by those who rode the buses? Yes - others experienced it as well, but only the buses are relevant

The inconvenience to the mass transit authority:
Was it a financial burden? This A time burden?
Was the inconvenience experienced across all mass transit? Yes, but see above Or just buses?
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Re: [Balin] Inconvvff routes

Postby Grip » Sun Apr 16, 2017 2:27 am

Are fees, fines or tolls relevant?
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Re: [Balin] Inconvvff routes

Postby Balin » Mon Apr 17, 2017 11:08 am

Are fees, fines or tolls relevant? No, good idea though
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Re: [Balin] Inconvvff routes

Postby Hobbsicle » Tue Apr 18, 2017 3:50 am

Was the inconvenience related to: picking up passengers? Taking payment? Making stops? Expending fuel? Maintaining the vehicles? Security?
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Re: [Balin] Inconvvff routes

Postby Balin » Tue Apr 18, 2017 10:30 am

Was the inconvenience related to: picking up passengers? Taking payment? Making stops? Expending fuel? Maintaining the vehicles? Security? None of these
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Re: [Balin] Inconvvff routes

Postby Hobbsicle » Sat Apr 22, 2017 1:37 am

Was the inconvenience felt by the drivers? Ticket-takers? Route planners?
Is it related to other technology? Like phones? The internet? Is the second group "those who ride the bus"? Or is it a subset of that?
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Re: [Balin] Inconvvff routes

Postby Balin » Sat Apr 22, 2017 5:23 pm

Was the inconvenience felt by the drivers? Ticket-takers? Route planners? None of these
Is it related to other technology? Like phones? The internet? No to these
Is the second group "those who ride the bus"? Yes Or is it a subset of that?
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Re: [Balin] Inconvvff routes

Postby GalFisk » Sun Apr 23, 2017 3:43 pm

Paying for tickets relevant? Payment methods? When to buy tickets? Or where? Mobile payment relevant? Cash? Computer or network outage relevant?
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Re: [Balin] Inconvvff routes

Postby Balin » Sun Apr 23, 2017 9:10 pm

Paying for tickets relevant? Payment methods? When to buy tickets? Or where? Mobile payment relevant? Cash? Computer or network outage relevant? None of these
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Re: [Balin] Inconvvff routes

Postby Hobbsicle » Fri Apr 28, 2017 1:26 pm

Was the inconvenience felt by office workers at the mass transit authority? By the officials/executives?
Would one of the bus riders notice the inconvenience while riding the bus? Boarding the bus? Departing? Buying the ticket? Waiting for the bus? Getting information about the route? About the time? Are time schedules relevant?
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Re: [Balin] Inconvvff routes

Postby Balin » Fri Apr 28, 2017 11:38 pm

Was the inconvenience felt by office workers at the mass transit authority? By the officials/executives? This, well done
Would one of the bus riders notice the inconvenience while riding the bus? Yope Boarding the bus? Departing? Buying the ticket? Waiting for the bus? Getting information about the route? About the time? Are time schedules relevant? No, and No to rest
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Re: [Balin] Inconvvff routes

Postby Balin » Thu May 04, 2017 11:07 pm

HINT: Bus accidents are relevant.
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Re: [Balin] Inconvvff routes

Postby Hobbsicle » Mon May 08, 2017 2:15 pm

Are accidents related to the inconvenience to the PTA? Are the accidents themselves the inconvenience? Or the result of the accidents? Would the inconvenience occur in every accident situation?

When those riding the bus felt the inconvenience, were bus accidents still relevant?
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Re: [Balin] Inconvvff routes

Postby Balin » Mon May 08, 2017 10:40 pm

Are accidents related to the inconvenience to the PTA? Yes Are the accidents themselves the inconvenience? No Or the result of the accidents? They're "a" result, not "the" result Would the inconvenience occur in every accident situation? No, but the possibility of it occurring would be present in every accident situation

When those riding the bus felt the inconvenience, were bus accidents still relevant? Yes, and an FA
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Re: [Balin] Inconvvff routes

Postby irishelk » Wed May 10, 2017 11:43 am

The initial inconvenience to the transit officials: so it occurred (when it did) after an accident? Only after accidents?
Was it the obligation to fix the bus involved in the accident? To fix other buses? To apply higher safety standards? Anything involving publicity/the media?
To pay compensation to the riders involved in the accident? To the driver? To other motorists/pedestrians involved? To the city?

The inconvenience that affected some passengers: is it also purely financial? Do they have to pay the same thing that the transit officials had to pay? To the same party?
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Re: [Balin] Inconvvff routes

Postby Balin » Wed May 10, 2017 1:05 pm

The initial inconvenience to the transit officials: so it occurred (when it did) after an accident? Only after accidents? Only relevantly after accidents
Was it the obligation to fix the bus involved in the accident? To fix other buses? To apply higher safety standards? Anything involving publicity/the media? To pay compensation to the riders involved in the accident? This is the regulation instituted to prevent the inconvenience! To the driver? To other motorists/pedestrians involved? To the city? No to rest

The inconvenience that affected some passengers: is it also purely financial? No, but there is a financial element Do they have to pay the same thing that the transit officials had to pay? Presumably, but see above To the same party? No
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Re: [Balin] Inconvvff routes

Postby JenBurdoo » Sun May 14, 2017 6:17 pm

Documentation relevant? Accident reports? Do bus passengers experience this inconvenience immediately after an accident? During? Some time later? Whilst requesting or receiving compensation? Is a lawsuit relevant? Does it matter who was responsible for the accident (eg the bus driver or another vehicle's driver)?

Is this a city bus system? School bus, airport shuttle, long-haul of some sort?
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Re: [Balin] Inconvvff routes

Postby Balin » Sun May 14, 2017 9:04 pm

Documentation relevant? Somewhat Accident reports? Somewhat
Do bus passengers experience this inconvenience immediately after an accident? During? Some time later? Shortly afterwards Whilst requesting or receiving compensation? Yes, see next
Is a lawsuit relevant? YES. "A lawsuit" is the inconvenience."
Does it matter who was responsible for the accident (eg the bus driver or another vehicle's driver)? Assume No

Is this a city bus system? This School bus, airport shuttle, long-haul of some sort?
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Re: [Balin] Inconvvff routes

Postby JenBurdoo » Sun May 14, 2017 9:45 pm

Who is being sued? The transit authority? The passengers? Someone else?
Who is bringing the suit? The transit authority? The passengers? Someone else?

Was a fixed amount of compensation determined in the regulation? Are the passengers getting less or more than this?

Shades of the present kerfuffle over compensation for being kicked off filled airliners, but you say this involves buses...
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Re: [Balin] Inconvvff routes

Postby Balin » Tue May 16, 2017 1:06 pm

Who is being sued? The transit authority? The passengers? Someone else?
Who is bringing the suit? The transit authority? The passengers? Someone else?
The regulation was instituted to prevent the passengers (members of the public) from suing the transit authority. Members of the public ended up in court after the police filed charges against them.

Was a fixed amount of compensation determined in the regulation? Yes Are the passengers getting less or more than this? No

Shades of the present kerfuffle over compensation for being kicked off filled airliners, but you say this involves buses... I started this puzzle before the present kerfuffle became a kerfuffle. I'm sure that could be adapted for a puzzle or two or seven also.
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Re: [Balin] Inconvvff routes

Postby irishelk » Thu May 18, 2017 11:34 pm

So, the transit authorities, to prevent the expense and inconvenience of lawsuits brought by customers involved in bus accidents, pass regulations that provide a standard payout to anyone involved in an accident. Correct so far?
And because bus riders who are involved in accidents receive payouts from the transit authorities, this somehow causes some of the riders to be taken to court by police?

Are the bus riders intentionally causing accidents in order to receive payouts? Or are the police alleging that they are?

Is it only the riders who receive payouts who are then taken to court by police?
Do the police feel that they should receive a portion of the payout?
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Re: [Balin] Inconvvff routes

Postby Balin » Fri May 19, 2017 10:52 am

So, the transit authorities, to prevent the expense and inconvenience of lawsuits brought by customers involved in bus accidents, pass regulations that provide a standard payout to anyone involved in an accident. Correct so far? Yes
And because bus riders who are involved in accidents receive payouts from the transit authorities, this somehow causes some of the riders to be taken to court by police? Yes, but there is a slight FA here!

Are the bus riders intentionally causing accidents in order to receive payouts? No Or are the police alleging that they are? No

Is it only the riders who receive payouts who are then taken to court by police? Same FA!
Do the police feel that they should receive a portion of the payout? No
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Re: [Balin] Inconvvff routes

Postby biograd » Fri May 19, 2017 5:38 pm

I notice you said "members of the public" and "bus riders" as though they were the same thing--but not every member of the public rides the bus at all, and especially not at the relevant time (when a bus is involved in an accident). So, are bus riders taken to court? or random other members of the public (who may, by coincidence, also have ridden a bus at some point in the past, but irrelevantly so)?

If it's members of the public in general, are those people involved in traffic violations that contribute to the cause of the bus accidents?

If it's bus riders specifically, is the new liability for suing related to the fact that the transit authority needs to know who is/was on the bus? or that riders have to prove their presence on the bus? For example, I know you said that paying for tickets is irrelevant, but maybe when passengers have to identify themselves and show their tickets from the relevant ride in order to be eligible for payout, this leads to some of them being discovered to have not paid for the tickets, and then they get taken to court for that.
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Re: [Balin] Inconvvff routes

Postby Balin » Sat May 20, 2017 12:34 am

I notice you said "members of the public" and "bus riders" as though they were the same thing--but not every member of the public rides the bus at all, and especially not at the relevant time (when a bus is involved in an accident). And I would love to clarify the distinction, but that would pretty much $poyle the puzzle...
So, are bus riders taken to court? or random other members of the public (who may, by coincidence, also have ridden a bus at some point in the past, but irrelevantly so)? ...Think more along the lines of the latter than the former.

If it's members of the public in general, are those people involved in traffic violations that contribute to the cause of the bus accidents? No

If it's bus riders specifically, is the new liability for suing related to the fact that the transit authority needs to know who is/was on the bus? YES or that riders have to prove their presence on the bus? Yope For example, I know you said that paying for tickets is irrelevant, but maybe when passengers have to identify themselves and show their tickets from the relevant ride in order to be eligible for payout, this leads to some of them being discovered to have not paid for the tickets, and then they get taken to court for that. Good idea, but not quite.
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Re: [Balin] Inconvvff routes

Postby biograd » Thu May 25, 2017 3:57 pm

Are the relevant members of the public those who occasionally ride buses (but who aren't necessarily riding at the moment they suffer the inconvenience)? those who have been on buses in the past (but again, aren't riding during the inconvenience)?

In order to prove who was on the bus, do riders have to show IDs when boarding? when buying tickets? are the tickets somehow linked to the purchaser (other than, of course, being in his/her possession), rather than being anonymous?
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Re: [Balin] Inconvvff routes

Postby Balin » Sat May 27, 2017 10:39 pm

Are the relevant members of the public those who occasionally ride buses (but who aren't necessarily riding at the moment they suffer the inconvenience)? those who have been on buses in the past (but again, aren't riding during the inconvenience)? THIS

In order to prove who was on the bus, do riders have to show IDs when boarding? Unknown/irrel when buying tickets? Same are the tickets somehow linked to the purchaser (other than, of course, being in his/her possession), rather than being anonymous? Same
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Re: [Balin] Inconvvff routes

Postby Balin » Sat May 27, 2017 10:39 pm

Clarification: It's not the inconvenience (the lawsuit) that they are relevantly NOT riding during.
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Re: [Balin] Inconvvff routes

Postby biograd » Sun May 28, 2017 1:03 am

Are there cameras on board the buses to determine who was riding? or more cameras than there were before?
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Re: [Balin] Inconvvff routes

Postby GalFisk » Sun May 28, 2017 5:57 am

Pretending to have been involved in an accident in order to unfairly gain compensation relevant?
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Re: [Balin] Inconvvff routes

Postby Balin » Wed May 31, 2017 1:27 am

Are there cameras on board the buses to determine who was riding? No or more cameras than there were before? No

Pretending to have been involved in an accident in order to unfairly gain compensation relevant? YES.

This one's almost solved; all that's needed is how the police knew the claimants were not involved in a bus accident.
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Re: [Balin] Inconvvff routes

Postby biograd » Wed May 31, 2017 1:55 am

Did they rule out the claimants' involvement in the specific accident for which they were trying to receive compensation? or their involvement in any bus accident ever?

As a result of one of your earlier answers, I gather that these people HAD been bus riders at some time (just not during the accident). Did they prove this using tickets? Had the tickets been used after the accident (for example to transfer to another form of transportation), in such a manner that they couldn't have gotten off the bus when the accident happened?
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Re: [Balin] Inconvvff routes

Postby Balin » Thu Jun 01, 2017 10:58 am

Did they rule out the claimants' involvement in the specific accident for which they were trying to receive compensation? This or their involvement in any bus accident ever?

As a result of one of your earlier answers, I gather that these people HAD been bus riders at some time (just not during the accident). Did they prove this using tickets? Had the tickets been used after the accident (for example to transfer to another form of transportation), in such a manner that they couldn't have gotten off the bus when the accident happened? No to all, and Irrel. Focus on how the police knew the claimants weren't involved in the specific accident.
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Re: [Balin] Inconvvff routes

Postby biograd » Thu Jun 01, 2017 5:28 pm

Were they shown to be at another location at the same time as the accident? or was there camera footage of everyone who boarded that bus, and the claimants were never seen on it?

Or, in a different direction, were they asked precisely when or where the accident occurred? and they gave incorrect information, showing they most likely hadn't been there?
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Re: [Balin] Inconvvff routes

Postby Balin » Fri Jun 02, 2017 10:06 am

Were they shown to be at another location at the same time as the accident? No or was there camera footage of everyone who boarded that bus, and the claimants were never seen on it? No, but the second part is OTRT

Or, in a different direction, were they asked precisely when or where the accident occurred? and they gave incorrect information, showing they most likely hadn't been there? Clever idea, but No
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Re: [Balin] Inconvvff routes

Postby GalFisk » Fri Jun 02, 2017 12:10 pm

Did they board the bus after the accident? Was footage filmed inside the bus? From another vehicle? From a public place? Surveillance camera? By a member of the public? By someone involved in the accident? Did the footage show: who was on the bus before the accident? During the accident? Did it show the people who were not on the bus during the accident? Did it show them being somewhere else?
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Re: [Balin] Inconvvff routes

Postby Balin » Sat Jun 03, 2017 11:03 am

Did they board the bus after the accident? No

Was footage filmed inside the bus? From another vehicle? From a public place? Surveillance camera? By a member of the public? By someone involved in the accident? Did the footage show: who was on the bus before the accident? During the accident? Did it show the people who were not on the bus during the accident? Did it show them being somewhere else? All are No/FA - there is no footage
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Re: [Balin] Inconvvff routes

Postby irishelk » Mon Jun 05, 2017 1:46 pm

Are the riders asked something to test their involvement? Are their backgrounds investigated?

Is it proven that the riders do not take that particular route? For example, they are quizzed on their knowledge of the area? Is it investigated whether they typically take the bus vs. driving?
Is something else about the riders' day investigated? Like where they were before and after the crash?
Are they asked about some aspect of the crash? Like what kind of other vehicle was involved? Or whose fault it was?
Are they asked about the other riders on the bus?
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Re: [Balin] Inconvvff routes

Postby Balin » Tue Jun 06, 2017 11:29 pm

Are the riders asked something to test their involvement? Are their backgrounds investigated?
Is it proven that the riders do not take that particular route? For example, they are quizzed on their knowledge of the area? Is it investigated whether they typically take the bus vs. driving?
Is something else about the riders' day investigated? Like where they were before and after the crash?
Are they asked about some aspect of the crash? Like what kind of other vehicle was involved? Or whose fault it was?
Are they asked about the other riders on the bus?
No to all, but the last question has a lateral relevance.
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Re: [Balin] Inconvvff routes

Postby irishelk » Tue Jun 06, 2017 11:44 pm

Yay, I'm glad I got answers while I was online--I'm really curious about this one.

Did something about passengers who were on the bus reveal which people were not on the bus? Were the real accident victims asked anything? Maybe everyone gave a description of the accident, and the actual riders gave consistent stories while the imposters were all over the place?

Did all the real riders share a characteristic that the imposters did not? Were they part of a group? A club?

The police suspecting that certain claimants were not involved--did they do so by looking at the people? By asking them anything? With physical evidence? By making astute generalizations (e.g. "that type of person would not be on a bus at that time")?
Were the police always right about who was involved or not? Were they right at all?
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Re: [Balin] Inconvvff routes

Postby Balin » Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:51 am

Did something about passengers who were on the bus reveal which people were not on the bus? Were the real accident victims asked anything? Maybe everyone gave a description of the accident, and the actual riders gave consistent stories while the imposters were all over the place?
Did all the real riders share a characteristic that the imposters did not? Were they part of a group? A club?
All of these questions have an FA!

The police suspecting that certain claimants were not involved--did they do so by looking at the people? By asking them anything? This With physical evidence? By making astute generalizations (e.g. "that type of person would not be on a bus at that time")?
Were the police always right about who was involved or not? Yes Were they right at all? So Yes
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Re: [Balin] Inconvvff routes

Postby biograd » Wed Jun 07, 2017 2:06 am

Is the FA that there were any bus passengers (relevantly) involved in an accident? Were there no recorded accidents on any bus in the time frame in which the impostors were claiming to have been in a bus accident? or did the only accidents involve buses that were not in service (in other words, they were driving on the road, but weren't carrying passengers)?
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Re: [Balin] Inconvvff routes

Postby Balin » Wed Jun 07, 2017 2:12 pm

Is the FA that there were any bus passengers (relevantly) involved in an accident? YES! Were there no recorded accidents on any bus in the time frame in which the impostors were claiming to have been in a bus accident? No or did the only accidents involve buses that were not in service (in other words, they were driving on the road, but weren't carrying passengers)? This.

****SPOILER****

This is another puzzle I got from that "Things I Learned From My Patients" thread, but I can't find the original post, so this is a paraphrase:)

Certain cities (Philadelphia among them) will award a $500 check to anyone on mass transit involved in an accident in exchange for not suing. This leads to a lot of system abuse, as any accident will lead to an influx of "patients" coming to the hospital claiming they were in the accident.

In one case, after an accident, a large number of patients came to the hospital, claiming to have been on the crashed bus. The police took all their statements, then charged them all with fraud. The bus that crashed was out of service and was carrying no passengers at the time of the accident.

Excellent perseverance, biograd and everyone else who asked questions!
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Re: [Balin] (*OUT OF SERVICE*) Inconvvff routes

Postby irishelk » Wed Jun 07, 2017 7:52 pm

Nice one! I'm glad my FA led someone smarter to the right answer! *Checks that box off the LTPF List of Achievements*
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