[Balin] The early bird gets the earworm

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[Balin] The early bird gets the earworm

Postby Balin » Wed May 24, 2017 2:27 am

This YouTube playlist is the puzzle. Good luck.
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Re: [Balin] The early bird gets the earworm

Postby WiZ » Wed May 24, 2017 3:48 am

Interesting premise.

Does the key lie in the titles? Is it relevant that, thematically, the songs are about beginnings, ends, and the cyclical nature of things? Is it possible to solve this puzzle without clicking on the videos or having any foreknowledge of the artists, songs or lyrics?

Is the playlist built around a theme, or does the particular combination and/or sequence of the items in the playlist combine to form a message or allusion?

Incidentally, the first half of the chorus of In The End describes most of my attempts at solving puzzles.
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Re: [Balin] The early bird gets the earworm

Postby Balin » Wed May 24, 2017 12:07 pm

Interesting premise.

Does the key lie in the titles? Yes (with one exception) Is it relevant that, thematically, the songs are about beginnings, ends, and the cyclical nature of things? Yes Is it possible to solve this puzzle without clicking on the videos or having any foreknowledge of the artists, songs or lyrics? Yes (again, with one exception)

Is the playlist built around a theme Yes or does the particular combination and/or sequence of the items in the playlist combine to form a message or allusion?

Incidentally, the first half of the chorus of In The End describes most of my attempts at solving puzzles. Ditto.
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Re: [Balin] The early bird gets the earworm

Postby Westing1992 » Wed May 24, 2017 7:57 pm

Is the exception Henry the VIII? The "Second verse same as the first" part relevant?
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Re: [Balin] The early bird gets the earworm

Postby Balin » Thu May 25, 2017 12:35 am

Is the exception Henry the VIII? The "Second verse same as the first" part relevant? Yes to both, again going along with the discovered theme of "beginnings, ends, and the cyclical nature of things"
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Re: [Balin] The early bird gets the earworm

Postby biograd » Thu May 25, 2017 4:17 pm

Are the songs all self-descriptive in some way? For instance, I noticed the following:
-"In The End" literally starts with the phrase "It starts with", and literally ends with the sentence "In the end, it doesn't even matter"
-We've already noticed that "Henry the VIII" consists of one verse repeated several times, and says this in the lyrics
-In the end of "Just Like Starting Over", there are the lyrics "over and over" and "starting over", well, over and over
-"Start Me Up" starts with "you start me up" and ends with something like "You make a dead man go" (I'm not sure I'm hearing that exactly right, but close enough), which is an end.

Aside from the fact that its title has nothing to do with "beginnings and ends and the cyclical nature of things", would "Crimson and Clover" also fit in this list, as it basically DOES consist of just "Crimson and clover, over and over"?
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Re: [Balin] The early bird gets the earworm

Postby Balin » Sat May 27, 2017 10:44 pm

Are the songs all self-descriptive in some way? Not relevantly For instance, I noticed the following:
-"In The End" literally starts with the phrase "It starts with", and literally ends with the sentence "In the end, it doesn't even matter"
-We've already noticed that "Henry the VIII" consists of one verse repeated several times, and says this in the lyrics
-In the end of "Just Like Starting Over", there are the lyrics "over and over" and "starting over", well, over and over
-"Start Me Up" starts with "you start me up" and ends with something like "You make a dead man go" (I'm not sure I'm hearing that exactly right, but close enough), which is an end. ...that word isn't "go." It's something much more risqué. But irrel.
Aside from the fact that its title has nothing to do with "beginnings and ends and the cyclical nature of things", would "Crimson and Clover" also fit in this list, as it basically DOES consist of just "Crimson and clover, over and over"? Yes
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Re: [Balin] The early bird gets the earworm

Postby biograd » Sun May 28, 2017 12:17 am

So, let me clarify--the self-referential aspect (i.e. that some songs start with a phrase using the literal word "start", end with something that literally means "end", or repeat something that literally means "over again") is NOT relevant? yet Crimson and Clover DOES fit the pattern (aside from the title not referencing starting, ending, or cycles)?

By the way, I think I understand what you mean by the "more risque" line... even if I'd heard it correctly I would have assumed it was the completely G-rated homophone of that word (i.e. the opposite of "go"), because that song was popular at a time when songs were a lot less explicit than they are nowadays. Like, even though the drug culture was rampant, I don't know of any song from that time that actually refers to any drug by name.
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Re: [Balin] The early bird gets the earworm

Postby Balin » Wed May 31, 2017 1:26 am

So, let me clarify--the self-referential aspect (i.e. that some songs start with a phrase using the literal word "start", end with something that literally means "end", or repeat something that literally means "over again") is NOT relevant? Right, those are not relevant. At least, they're not any more relevant than the titles suggesting beginnings, ends, or repetition yet Crimson and Clover DOES fit the pattern (aside from the title not referencing starting, ending, or cycles)? You're correct, because "Crimson and Clover" gives the idea of repetition in the "over and over" lyrics.
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Re: [Balin] The early bird gets the earworm

Postby biograd » Wed May 31, 2017 1:47 am

I'm really curious now what connection you have found that's more remarkable than the things I noticed, and also happens to be true of Crimson and Clover even though I obviously had the wrong reason. What's more, I wonder whether the things I noticed are coincidences (i.e. if the songwriters didn't intentionally put "start" near the start, or "end" or "dead" at the end to just be cool or to mess with people's minds...)

Is the connection you noticed about something "outside" the lyrics, melodies, and overall structure of the songs themselves (such as the names of the artists singing them, when in their singing careers the songs were recorded, etc.)?
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Re: [Balin] The early bird gets the earworm

Postby biograd » Wed May 31, 2017 2:10 am

By the way, in case anyone else guesses along these lines, I just checked and these songs are NOT all either the first or last song on their respective albums.
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Re: [Balin] The early bird gets the earworm

Postby Balin » Thu Jun 01, 2017 10:59 am

I'm really curious now what connection you have found that's more remarkable than the things I noticed, and also happens to be true of Crimson and Clover even though I obviously had the wrong reason. What's more, I wonder whether the things I noticed are coincidences (i.e. if the songwriters didn't intentionally put "start" near the start, or "end" or "dead" at the end to just be cool or to mess with people's minds...) I'll give you a hint: The medium of the puzzle is relevant.

Is the connection you noticed about something "outside" the lyrics, melodies, and overall structure of the songs themselves (such as the names of the artists singing them, when in their singing careers the songs were recorded, etc.)? Something "outside" the songs? Yes. But "connection" is not the word I would use - there is a bit of a "classic puzzle" element.

By the way, in case anyone else guesses along these lines, I just checked and these songs are NOT all either the first or last song on their respective albums.
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Re: [Balin] The early bird gets the earworm

Postby biograd » Thu Jun 01, 2017 7:21 pm

Since you said that the medium of the puzzle is relevant, is the order of the songs in the playlist the relevant thing? Is it relevant that aside from the Barry White song, they are "backwards", in that the first song in the playlist has "end" in the title, while the last one has "start" in the title (while the ones in between reference repetition)?
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Re: [Balin] The early bird gets the earworm

Postby hominid » Fri Jun 02, 2017 12:23 am

Are the full titles of the videos relevant? Or just the song titles? Artists' names relevant?

Is this a "story" puzzle, or is it purely abstract?
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Re: [Balin] The early bird gets the earworm

Postby Balin » Fri Jun 02, 2017 10:08 am

Since you said that the medium of the puzzle is relevant, is the order of the songs in the playlist the relevant thing? It's a relevant thing (see below), but not the relevant thing Is it relevant that aside from the Barry White song, they are "backwards", in that the first song in the playlist has "end" in the title, while the last one has "start" in the title (while the ones in between reference repetition)? Yes

Are the full titles of the videos relevant? No Or just the song titles? See earlier - titles are relevant except for "I'm Henry the Eighth I Am" Artists' names relevant? No

Is this a "story" puzzle No or is it purely abstract? But I wouldn't call it abstract either
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Re: [Balin] The early bird gets the earworm

Postby hominid » Sat Jun 03, 2017 3:08 pm

Is it a statement about life? People? Other animals? The world? Time? History? Music? Videos?
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Re: [Balin] The early bird gets the earworm

Postby Balin » Sun Jun 04, 2017 2:47 pm

Is it a statement about life? People? Other animals? The world? Time? History?
Music? Videos? These two are the only relevant ones. Also, SVV of "statement"
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Re: [Balin] The early bird gets the earworm

Postby Balin » Wed Jun 07, 2017 2:16 pm

HINT: The solution is about YouTube playlists.
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Re: [Balin] The early bird gets the earworm

Postby hominid » Wed Jun 07, 2017 6:15 pm

Is the concept of only watching the beginning of a playlist relevant? The concept of only skimming the titles? Listening to music on YouTube without watching the video? Watching a video, and then realizing that the video is part of a playlist?
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Re: [Balin] The early bird gets the earworm

Postby Balin » Thu Jun 08, 2017 2:28 am

Is the concept of only watching the beginning of a playlist relevant? The concept of only skimming the titles? Listening to music on YouTube without watching the video? Watching a video, and then realizing that the video is part of a playlist? No to all
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Re: [Balin] The early bird gets the earworm

Postby Acridian9 » Thu Jun 08, 2017 11:08 am

The repeat button at the top of the playlist relevant?
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Re: [Balin] The early bird gets the earworm

Postby Westing1992 » Fri Jun 09, 2017 12:08 am

Relevant that playlists are often made backwards, so that the last video of a set is played first?
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Re: [Balin] The early bird gets the earworm

Postby Balin » Sat Jun 10, 2017 1:34 pm

The repeat button at the top of the playlist relevant? No, but OTRT!

Relevant that playlists are often made backwards, so that the last video of a set is played first? No, good guess though
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Re: [Balin] The early bird gets the earworm

Postby Acridian9 » Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:40 pm

About the OTRT: another button relevant? or is it the fact that you can repeat the playlist?
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Re: [Balin] The early bird gets the earworm

Postby SurfingPikachu » Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:49 pm

Is it relevant that there are exactly six videos in the playlist? Is the position of the Henry video in the playlist important?

Edit: is it relevant that VIII = 8 looks like the infinity symbol sideways?
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Re: [Balin] The early bird gets the earworm

Postby Grip » Sat Jun 10, 2017 6:04 pm

Is is relevant that YouTube playlists can be looped to be played over and over?
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Re: [Balin] The early bird gets the earworm

Postby Balin » Sun Jun 11, 2017 2:28 am

About the OTRT: another button relevant? No or is it the fact that you can repeat the playlist? Yes

Is it relevant that there are exactly six videos in the playlist? No Is the position of the Henry video in the playlist important? No

Is it relevant that VIII = 8 looks like the infinity symbol sideways? No

Is is relevant that YouTube playlists can be looped to be played over and over? Yes...
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Re: [Balin] The early bird gets the earworm

Postby SurfingPikachu » Sun Jun 11, 2017 4:38 am

Is the solution to point out some quirk in YouTube playlists, in the repeat function, in the browser behaviour, perhaps in regards to the "back button" behaviour, or in the downloading and local caching of videos?

Is the solution to point out something special about this particular YouTube playlist you have constructed? To draw an analogy between it and something? To state a specific sentence? To use is as the start of a treasure-hunt-ish-puzzle?

Is any of the following relevant: any historical bugs or events in YouTube/playlists/repeat, the fact that "repeat" was not implemented for a long time?
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Re: [Balin] The early bird gets the earworm

Postby Balin » Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:32 pm

Is the solution to point out some quirk in YouTube playlists, Yes in the repeat function, Yope in the browser behaviour, perhaps in regards to the "back button" behaviour, or in the downloading and local caching of videos? No to rest

Is the solution to point out something special about this particular YouTube playlist you have constructed? To draw an analogy between it and something? To state a specific sentence? To use is as the start of a treasure-hunt-ish-puzzle? No to all

Is any of the following relevant: any historical bugs or events in YouTube/playlists/repeat, Yes, svv of "bugs" the fact that "repeat" was not implemented for a long time? No
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Re: [Balin] The early bird gets the earworm

Postby Acridian9 » Tue Jun 13, 2017 8:44 am

The fact that there is no repeat button for a single video but there is one for playlists relevant?
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Re: [Balin] The early bird gets the earworm

Postby Waldiman » Tue Jun 13, 2017 5:48 pm

Are any other factors about the videos relevant other than the titles/themes: The amount of likes, views, subscriptions, etc.? Would the puzzle work just as good if Youtube had no visuals, just sound?
Relevant, that music videos often start with a little bit of silence and/or end with it?

Do I see correctly, that there are 2 songs for each theme: 2x ending, 2x repetition, and 2x beginning? If so, is that relevant or could it just be 1 song each?
Do you want to symbolize a certain cycle with this "end-repeat-start" theme? Like the fact that everytime a video on a playlist comes to an end a new video starts or the playlist starts over when you select the repeat button in time.

Or maybe, it is the moment, when "in the end" of the playlist you need to remember to press the repeat button, to start the "circle of life" a new, because otherwise it won't be "just like starting over", it will just end without a warning. Or the moment when you forgot to press that repeat button, and the playlist won't start over, because the video already ended.
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Re: [Balin] The early bird gets the earworm

Postby Balin » Tue Jun 13, 2017 10:25 pm

The fact that there is no repeat button for a single video but there is one for playlists relevant? No

Are any other factors about the videos relevant other than the titles/themes: The amount of likes, views, subscriptions, etc.? No Would the puzzle work just as good if Youtube had no visuals, just sound? Yes
Relevant, that music videos often start with a little bit of silence and/or end with it? No

Do I see correctly, that there are 2 songs for each theme: 2x ending, 2x repetition, and 2x beginning? If so, is that relevant or could it just be 1 song each? Not relevant
Do you want to symbolize a certain cycle with this "end-repeat-start" theme? Yes Like the fact that everytime a video on a playlist comes to an end a new video starts No or the playlist starts over Yes when you select the repeat button in time. No

Or maybe, it is the moment, when "in the end" of the playlist you need to remember to press the repeat button, to start the "circle of life" a new, because otherwise it won't be "just like starting over", it will just end without a warning. Or the moment when you forgot to press that repeat button, and the playlist won't start over, because the video already ended. Good guesses, and OTRT, but No. Remember, playlists repeating ARE relevant, but the repeat button ISN'T.

And welcome to the forum Waldiman!
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Re: [Balin] The early bird gets the earworm

Postby SurfingPikachu » Wed Jun 14, 2017 12:35 pm

Is it relevant that you could play and repeat a list of videos without constructing an explicit playlist by appending the video IDs in the URL in an appropriate format?

Is it relevant that right-click Loop on a single video does not work? But double-right-click Loop works?
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Re: [Balin] The early bird gets the earworm

Postby Balin » Wed Jun 14, 2017 1:46 pm

Is it relevant that you could play and repeat a list of videos without constructing an explicit playlist by appending the video IDs in the URL in an appropriate format?
Is it relevant that right-click Loop on a single video does not work? But double-right-click Loop works?
Neither, and I didn't know you could do either of those! Thanks for the info!
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Re: [Balin] The early bird gets the earworm

Postby Balin » Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:11 am

BIG HINT: There's a way to make a YouTube playlist that auto-repeats without using the repeat button.
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Re: [Balin] The early bird gets the earworm

Postby SurfingPikachu » Mon Jun 19, 2017 2:58 pm

Does it involve changing the order of the videos in the playlist while the playlist is playing?
Does it involve the playlist auto-add function?
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Re: [Balin] The early bird gets the earworm

Postby Balin » Tue Jun 20, 2017 8:52 pm

Does it involve changing the order of the videos in the playlist while the playlist is playing? No
Does it involve the playlist auto-add function? Possibly, but I don't think so. I'm not familiar with the auto-add function
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Re: [Balin] The early bird gets the earworm

Postby SurfingPikachu » Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:51 am

Does it involve putting multiple copies of the same video into the playlist in some specific way? Such as the same video at the start and end of the playlist?

Does it involve using a third-party like YouTube Replayer? Or is it purely done in YouTube?

Does it involve modifying the URL, source HTML or JavaScript? Invoking an API? Or is it done using an explicit feature already offered by YouTube?
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Re: [Balin] The early bird gets the earworm

Postby Balin » Tue Jun 27, 2017 2:07 am

Does it involve putting multiple copies of the same video into the playlist in some specific way? Such as the same video at the start and end of the playlist? This.

****SPOILER****

If there are multiple copies of the same video in a YouTube playlist, when the second video comes up in the queue, the playlist will automatically jump back to the first video. So if you put the same video in a playlist at the beginning and the end, the playlist will repeat automatically.
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Re: [Balin] The early bird gets the earworm (*IN THE LOOP*)

Postby biograd » Tue Jun 27, 2017 5:01 am

It seems you've uncovered an interesting bug in how Youtube's software works--I never knew that. I assume that somewhere in the code, it associates each video only with the position of its first occurrence in the list. You'd think in that case they would have set it up to not let you add a video again if it's already in the list.
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Re: [Balin] The early bird gets the earworm (*IN THE LOOP*)

Postby SurfingPikachu » Tue Jun 27, 2017 12:00 pm

Interestingly, that was one of the first things I tried, but I couldn't get it to loop no matter what. When I try it, it does correctly associate position etc etc. But when I change the video ordering while the playlist is playing, I can force a loop, hence some of my earlier attempts centered around this. Now I'm guessing maybe this bug/feature might depend on each person's browser or other config.
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