[Biograd]Not Yiddish

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[Biograd]Not Yiddish

Postby biograd » Fri May 26, 2017 11:34 pm

Rarely I experience a yishda, a quite curious phenomenon. A yishda is by no means always negative, but a negative one is very relieving when it's over. This is even more the case after my most recent yishda, because it served as the inspiration for this puzzle.

What is a yishda??
Last edited by biograd on Tue Jun 13, 2017 8:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [Biograd]Not Yiddish

Postby irishelk » Sat May 27, 2017 1:01 am

Does a yishda involve anyone else? Does it take more than a minute to occur? More than an hour? More than a day?

Is it a physical action? If so, done by the person who is experiencing the yishda? Is it involuntary? Is it a thought process? Or something else neurological?
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Re: [Biograd]Not Yiddish

Postby biograd » Sat May 27, 2017 4:11 am

Does a yishda involve anyone else?No or yesish, depending on perspective. Does it take more than a minute to occur?Often the entire occurrence lasts a few minutes, though it "becomes" a yishda due to something that takes seconds. May be FA lurking though. More than an hour? More than a day?Certainly No to these two.

Is it a physical action?No If so, done by the person who is experiencing the yishda?So no Is it involuntary?Yes Is it a thought process?Yes Or something else neurological?It certainly arises from the brain, so yes.
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Re: [Biograd]Not Yiddish

Postby biograd » Sat May 27, 2017 4:19 am

Correction--the answer to "Does it involve anyone else?" is Not necessarily, no matter how you look at it. It certainly is not performed even in part by anyone else.
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Re: [Biograd]Not Yiddish

Postby JenBurdoo » Tue May 30, 2017 5:09 am

Is, or can, another be present while it is done? Does it happen to you, or do you actively do it yourself? To yourself?

Is it a thought? an unwanted one? An earworm?
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Re: [Biograd]Not Yiddish

Postby biograd » Tue May 30, 2017 3:43 pm

Is, or can, another be present while it is done?Here's where it becomes a matter of perspective. In the ordinary sense nobody else is present, but in another sense someone can be. Does it happen to you, or do you actively do it yourself?The former-ish To yourself?

Is it a thought?The yishda as a whole isn't "a thought", though one could call it a series of thoughts. However, there is one particular thought that one MUST have at some point, in order for the experience as a whole to be a yishda. an unwanted one?That thought by itself is neutral An earworm?No
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Re: [Biograd]Not Yiddish

Postby irishelk » Wed May 31, 2017 9:14 pm

Is imagining a person involved? If so, mistakenly believing a person is there? Or thinking about a person who one knows isn't physically present? Watching or listening to a recording of another person involved?

When a yishda is negative, is it because one believes they are in danger? Relives a negative memory? Feels like their senses are playing tricks on them? Feels physical discomfort? When it is negative, might it make one: sad? angry? scared? confused? frustrated?
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Re: [Biograd]Not Yiddish

Postby biograd » Thu Jun 01, 2017 5:36 pm

Is imagining a person involved?It often is, for svv. of "imagining", but is not necessary If so, mistakenly believing a person is there?If the first is in fact Yes, then this is also Yes, for svv of "believing", but I don't want to confuse you Or thinking about a person who one knows isn't physically present? Watching or listening to a recording of another person involved?No to the last two.

When a yishda is negative, is it because one believes they are in danger? Relives a negative memory? Feels like their senses are playing tricks on them? Feels physical discomfort? When it is negative, might it make one: sad? angry? scared? confused? frustrated?Could be any of these, really.
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Re: [Biograd]Not Yiddish

Postby irishelk » Mon Jun 05, 2017 12:24 pm

Is any kind of sense memory relevant, e.g. a smell making one relive a past scene? Or "reliving" a certain sight/sound/smell as a memory? Is it any sort of hallucination?

Do most people experience this at least once in their life? Do most people experience it several times? Deja vu relevant? Synesthesia?
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Re: [Biograd]Not Yiddish

Postby biograd » Tue Jun 06, 2017 4:34 pm

Is any kind of sense memory relevant, e.g. a smell making one relive a past scene?No Or "reliving" a certain sight/sound/smell as a memory?No--but the concept of memory is relevant. Is it any sort of hallucination?DOYD. There's a much more common and precise word to refer to the general occurrence of which a yishda is one type.

Do most people experience this at least once in their life?I don't know--when this puzzle is solved, I'm curious about you all. Do most people experience it several times?Same Deja vu relevant?Not in the way you're almost surely thinking, but in another way this is incredibly close to the mark. Synesthesia?No
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Re: [Biograd]Not Yiddish

Postby irishelk » Tue Jun 06, 2017 11:26 pm

Rather than deja vu, which is the mistaken belief that something is happening again, does yishda involve something actually repeating itself? If so, an external event? One's reaction to an external event? A train of thought?
Or is it like deja vu in that it is a mistaken belief? Does it have anything to do with premonition of the future? Remembering something "through new eyes" once you are older?

Could yishda be phrased as: a type of memory that ____?

Does yishda always involve remembering a specific type of thing? if so, a person? an emotion? an event?


If it's a weird thing one's brain does, I bet I have also experienced it at some point. :lol:
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Re: [Biograd]Not Yiddish

Postby biograd » Wed Jun 07, 2017 2:13 am

Rather than deja vu, which is the mistaken belief that something is happening again, does yishda involve something actually repeating itself?Yes, it involves something actually repeating itself, though this is not the main reason why it's different from "typical" deja vu. If so, an external event?No One's reaction to an external event?No A train of thought?One could call it a "train of thought", and this would certainly be a much better description than "external event", though not the way one would ordinarily refer to it.
Or is it like deja vu in that it is a mistaken belief?There is a mistaken belief involved too. Does it have anything to do with premonition of the future? Remembering something "through new eyes" once you are older?No to rest.

Could yishda be phrased as: a type of memory that ____?Only very awkwardly.A memory is involved, but it's unlikely someone who knows what a yishda is would call it a "type of memory".

Does yishda always involve remembering a specific type of thing?Yes if so, a person? an emotion? an event?This is the only one that works, although some may not call it an "event".


If it's a weird thing one's brain does, I bet I have also experienced it at some point. :lol: We'll see...
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Re: [Biograd]Not Yiddish

Postby Hobbsicle » Thu Jun 08, 2017 5:50 pm

So is it a false memory of sorts? Like thinking that something happened to you, only to suddenly realize that it was a story you heard of someone else? Is the realization that it is a yishda triggered by something specific? Or just an involuntary realization/correction of the memory?
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Re: [Biograd]Not Yiddish

Postby biograd » Fri Jun 09, 2017 10:36 pm

So is it a false memory of sorts?No Like thinking that something happened to you, only to suddenly realize that it was a story you heard of someone else?No, there is a VERY vague analogy to this involved but not nearly enough to answer even "yesish". Is the realization that it is a yishda triggered by something specific?FA. But I assume you mean "the realization that makes it a yishda"--in that case it may or may not be. Or just an involuntary realization/correction of the memory?The realization of the memory may happen for any reason--the "correction" doesn't happen DURING the yishda.
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Re: [Biograd]Not Yiddish

Postby SurfingPikachu » Sun Jun 11, 2017 4:58 am

Is any of the following involved: having an epiphany, a dawning realisation, fridge logic?

Does the precise term for this contain either the word "deja" or "vu"? (Is such a question cheating?)
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Re: [Biograd]Not Yiddish

Postby biograd » Sun Jun 11, 2017 5:42 am

Is any of the following involved: having an epiphany, a dawning realisation,One could say yes, but not in any sense that goes beyond the previous questions on this puzzle. fridge logic?I had to look that up, but no. There's nothing even remotely movie/novel/other-work-of-art-related thing going on here.

Does the precise term for this contain either the word "deja" or "vu"? (Is such a question cheating?)There is no existing term (at least not of which I'm aware) for this--therefore it isn't "cheating", the answer is just "no".

Since I sense a major FA here, possibly of "is the main character a HAM?"--level magnitude, I will give the following HINT:
While I cannot prove that any of you have NOT experienced a yishda in the past 24 hours (even though, in a purely statistical sense, it's probably unlikely), I CAN state with certainty that none of you have ever experienced a yishda while browsing the LTPF. That is regardless of where you were browsing it from (at home, at work, in a cabin at the top of Mt. Everest, sitting on the toilet, etc.), and what kind of thoughts and/or memories were evoked for you by any of of the puzzles here.
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Re: [Biograd]Not Yiddish

Postby SurfingPikachu » Sun Jun 11, 2017 9:00 am

Apart from browsing the LTPF, does any of the following also (definitely? probably?) preclude (or significantly increase or decrease the likelihood of) experiencing a yishda?
- being a smart dog
- being a hypothetical humanlike extraterrestial who's never seen Earth
- being a hypothetical humanlike non-human robot, or AI with no physical body, on Earth
- being above or below certain intelligence or education levels
- being physically unable to experience emotions or desire
- being physically unable to store long-term (say, >1 day) memories
- browsing certain other (or any) websites, or doing certain (or any) computer work
- being in a certain place or never having been in a certain place
- having certain cultures or languages
- having certain occupations or hobbies
- having certain disabilities (blind? deaf? mute?)
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Re: [Biograd]Not Yiddish

Postby biograd » Sun Jun 11, 2017 7:47 pm

Apart from browsing the LTPF, does any of the following also (definitely? probably?) preclude (or significantly increase or decrease the likelihood of) experiencing a yishda?
- being a smart dogI don't know if dogs can experience this, and I can't imagine how one could conduct an experiment to determine if they can.
- being a hypothetical humanlike extraterrestial who's never seen Earth
- being a hypothetical humanlike non-human robot, or AI with no physical body, on EarthThere's no need to experience Earth, or have a physical body. Whether an extraterrestrial or robot could experience this is unrelated to these things.
- being above or below certain intelligence or education levelsWell, I suppose with VERY low intelligence one would have difficulty experiencing this, but that would entail having a severe inability to separate imagination/fantasy from reality. I'm sure everyone on the LTPF, and probably on the Internet in general, is above this level.
- being physically unable to experience emotions or desireThis only would effect whether the yishda could be positive or negative as opposed to neutral.
- being physically unable to store long-term (say, >1 day) memories This would preclude a yishda, but for a completely different reason than browsing the LTPF.
- browsing certain other (or any) websites, or doing certain (or any) computer work This makes it impossible, too. Not in the sense of "anyone who uses a computer never experiences it", but "those who do don't experience it WHILE using a computer".
- being in a certain place or never having been in a certain place
- having certain cultures or languages
- having certain occupations or hobbies
- having certain disabilities (blind? deaf? mute?) These last 4 are irrelevant. I mean there is one "sort of disability" (more like a brain disorder) that, if absolute, would preclude a yishda, but it's nothing like the ones you listed.
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Re: [Biograd]Not Yiddish

Postby SurfingPikachu » Mon Jun 12, 2017 1:07 am

Is it related to dreaming? Lucid dreaming? Hypnosis?
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Re: [Biograd]Not Yiddish

Postby biograd » Mon Jun 12, 2017 5:29 am

Is it related to dreaming?YES! Lucid dreaming?No, but... Hypnosis?No
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Re: [Biograd]Not Yiddish

Postby SurfingPikachu » Mon Jun 12, 2017 6:42 am

Ok then, I shall guess "dreaming about waking from a dream".

Also, I saw the other thread before guessing "dreaming". Though I had considered, discarded, and revisited dreaming before.
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Re: [Biograd]Not Yiddish

Postby biograd » Mon Jun 12, 2017 3:20 pm

Ok then, I shall guess "dreaming about waking from a dream".No, although that should have a name too. Feel free to invent one. In the course of thinking about this puzzle, I've thought of a bunch more dream types that should have names. I was thinking I could make another puzzle whose purpose is to guess those, but then people would know the general category and it wouldn't be as interesting. So I was thinking that the other option would be to just make a post in the chatroom giving a list of them. That way we could come up with names that actually sound fitting, as opposed to trying to obfuscate. I did notice there already is one for lucid dreaming, and for a dream containing a factual error.

Anyway, back to the puzzle at hand... I'd suggest that you all go back over the other posts in light of what you know now, and consider the meaning of the previous answers. A decent number of the OTRT-ish suggestions were vaguely similar to dreaming itself, and a decent number of the things that preclude a yishda do so because they cannot be done while sleeping. But there also are some that coincidentally got a decent way toward narrowing down what type of dream it is.

Just guessing random things a dream could be about is unlikely to get you the answer, as the definition is quite specific/subtle. Not in an arbitrary way, like "dreaming about being naked while playing basketball"--there's a reason why this type is unique in terms of the psychology of it--but it still likely wouldn't appear on a "LTPF list of dream types".
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Re: [Biograd]Not Yiddish

Postby biograd » Mon Jun 12, 2017 3:37 pm

By the way, if I were to come up with a name for the type you just guessed, I'd call it something like a "lobby dream" or "courtyard dream"--like you have exited a room into the courtyard/lobby, but haven't managed to exit the building yet.
We'll see what you think of, though.
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Re: [Biograd]Not Yiddish

Postby SurfingPikachu » Mon Jun 12, 2017 4:20 pm

Come on! Everyone and their mom would name it as "Inception"! :P

Does the answer involve some form of repetition or recursion?
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Re: [Biograd]Not Yiddish

Postby biograd » Mon Jun 12, 2017 9:23 pm

Come on! Everyone and their mom would name it as "Inception"! :P I never saw that movie, so therefore I would have never thought to name it that. In any case, looking at the premise of the movie, it seems like it's about something far stranger (if it were possible): two or more people sharing one dream world and communicating through it. I've seen on dreaming forums where people claim to have done that, like someone and his friend/brother/whoever each saw the other in a dream on the same night, and the same thing happened between them in the two dreams. I would probably reserve "Inception" for those instances.

Does the answer involve some form of repetition or recursion?Repetition yes. There's an element of recursion, in some sense.
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Re: [Biograd]Not Yiddish

Postby Hobbsicle » Tue Jun 13, 2017 2:26 am

Is it related to a recurring dream? Do you have a recurring dream, that, during the dream, you think, "I've had a dream just like this before?" In a yishida, are you ever aware that you're dreaming?
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Re: [Biograd]Not Yiddish

Postby SurfingPikachu » Tue Jun 13, 2017 3:49 pm

Regarding Inception: yes, but the average person does not make that distinction and just calls any sort of dream-within-a-dream as "inception" (and in fact, any sort of X-within-an-X as "X-ception"). At least in Internet culture and among the people around me.

Would I be OTRT if I pondered about an analogy of "deja vu"? Or I pondered about various types of repetition? I'm not really sure how else to proceed apart from random guessing.

Super WAG: Dreaming about trying to fall asleep by counting sheep.
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Re: [Biograd]Not Yiddish

Postby biograd » Tue Jun 13, 2017 5:29 pm

Regarding Inception: yes, but the average person does not make that distinction and just calls any sort of dream-within-a-dream as "inception" (and in fact, any sort of X-within-an-X as "X-ception"). At least in Internet culture and among the people around me.That's interesting

Would I be OTRT if I pondered about an analogy of "deja vu"?Yes. How would a sense of "deja vu" occur within a dream, and what could be the result? Or I pondered about various types of repetition?Yes I'm not really sure how else to proceed apart from random guessing.I'd say you are quite close.

Super WAG: Dreaming about trying to fall asleep by counting sheep.No. It doesn't involve dreaming, waking, or falling asleep WITHIN the dream. But there IS a waking/dreaming ambiguity involved.
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Re: [Biograd]Not Yiddish

Postby Hobbsicle » Tue Jun 13, 2017 5:45 pm

Did you miss my questions above?
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Re: [Biograd]Not Yiddish [Awakened and Elucidated]

Postby biograd » Tue Jun 13, 2017 7:28 pm

I am very sorry Hobbsicle! It looked like everyone else had abandoned this puzzle...

You got it!

Is it related to a recurring dream?Yes Do you have a recurring dream, that, during the dream, you think, "I've had a dream just like this before?"YES!!! In a yishida, are you ever aware that you're dreaming?And NO! That's the key!

A yishda is a recurrence of a recurring dream where one realizes, within the dream, "I've had a dream about this before", possibly even to the point of announcing that fact to other people in the dream (that's what I meant when I said "others could be involved, in a sense"), WITHOUT making the logical inference that the current instance is another one of those dreams and therefore entering a lucid dream. Put maybe more simply, it's a recurrence of a recurring dream in which one recognizes the "plot line" from previous dreams, but believes that it's actually finally happening in real life.

When I woke up from my latest one of these, I immediately thought of making a neologism, and in my half-asleep state I thought to use a phrasing of the humorously incomplete realization, "You know, I Sometimes Have Dreams About ______(insert what is happening here)_____. So, I picked up the nearest pencil and wrote "YISHDA" in big letters on the back of a piece of paper, and went back to sleep. The next day I posted this puzzle.


**********************************SPOILER********************************************************
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Re: [Biograd]Not Yiddish [Awakened and Elucidated]

Postby Hobbsicle » Wed Jun 14, 2017 3:08 am

Nice, I liked it. I'm not sure whether or not I've had a dream like that. I think I've had similar types of dreams, such as thinking, "Weird, I was just thinking about this the other day, and now it's happening", or "I just watched a movie like this!", but I can't remember a recurring dream that I remembered within the dream.
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Re: [Biograd]Not Yiddish [Awakened and Elucidated]

Postby irishelk » Thu Jun 15, 2017 12:36 pm

Yep, happens to me all the time. And often it's the case that I wake up, start telling someone about my dream, then realize that I am still sleeping.
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