[Balin] Uplifting

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[Balin] Uplifting

Postby Balin » Wed Jun 07, 2017 2:19 pm

Brooke was arrested because the alarm did not go off. How?
Brooke = H/A/F
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Re: [Balin] Uplifting

Postby GalFisk » Wed Jun 07, 2017 2:32 pm

Alarm: wakeup alarm? Burglar alarm? Fire alarm? An alarm that something has gone wrong? Or is about to go wrong? That some action must be taken? That some area must be evacuated? That something will happen shortly? An alarm triggered by a sensor? A human, intentionally? A timer? An animal? Did Brooke relevantly sleep? Commit a crime? Fail to prevent a crime? Or accident? Or disaster? If the alarm had gone off, would Brooke: be innocent? Escape arrest? Die? Was Brooke arrested because she was guilty of something?
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Re: [Balin] Uplifting

Postby Balin » Wed Jun 07, 2017 3:18 pm

Alarm: wakeup alarm? Burglar alarm? Fire alarm? An alarm that something has gone wrong? Yope Or is about to go wrong? That some action must be taken? Yope That some area must be evacuated? Yope That something will happen shortly?
Unanswered are No

An alarm triggered by a sensor? This A human, intentionally? A timer? An animal?
Did Brooke relevantly sleep? Commit a crime? This Fail to prevent a crime? Or accident? Or disaster?
If the alarm had gone off, would Brooke: be innocent? Escape arrest? This Die?
Was Brooke arrested because she was guilty of something? Yes
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Re: [Balin] Uplifting

Postby GalFisk » Wed Jun 07, 2017 3:26 pm

Does the sensor sense: light? An image? Heat? Body heat? Movement? Weight? Liquid? G-forces? Electricity? Smoke? Fire? Metal? Is it a burglar alarm? Other intruder alarm? Does the alarm system beling to Brooke? Is it meant to serve her? Did the alarm malfunction? Was it sabotaged? Was it not activated? Incorrectly or incompletely made? Damaged? Used incorrectly? Did the relevant failure occur: before the crime? During the crime? Right after? Before the arrest? During? Relevant how she would escape arrest? Relevant what crime she committed? Is the alarm mechanical in nature? Electric? Electronic? Animal?
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Re: [Balin] Uplifting

Postby Earnest » Wed Jun 07, 2017 4:01 pm

Was she in a hotel room? Was the alarm set up by Brooke?An accomplice of her?Someone else?Were the alarm gone off, would Brooke evacuate?Would she evacuate a building?An area?The crime scene?An airplane(for instance she was in an airplane and police was waiting her in the arrival airport; if the alarm inside the plane went off the airplane would have landed in a different airport)?would she escape the arrest thanks to the evacuation?
Was she a thief?A murder? Trafficking?

Is the fact that she is a female relevant? For instance she was pregnant.
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Re: [Balin] Uplifting

Postby Balin » Thu Jun 08, 2017 2:27 am

Does the sensor sense: light? An image? Heat? Body heat? Movement? Weight? This Liquid? G-forces? Electricity? Smoke? Fire? Metal?
Is it a burglar alarm? Other intruder alarm? No
Does the alarm system belong to Brooke? Yes Is it meant to serve her? "Serve"? No
Did the alarm malfunction? Was it sabotaged? Was it not activated? Incorrectly or incompletely made? Damaged? Used incorrectly? No to all
Did the relevant failure occur: before the crime? During the crime? Right after? Shortly after, FA Before the arrest? During?
Relevant how she would escape arrest? Yes
Relevant what crime she committed? Yes
Is the alarm mechanical in nature? Electric? Electronic? This, I think Animal?

Was she in a hotel room? No
Was the alarm set up by Brooke? An accomplice of her? Someone else? Presumably this, not really relevant
Were the alarm gone off, would Brooke evacuate? No, so No to these Would she evacuate a building? An area? The crime scene? An airplane (for instance she was in an airplane and police was waiting her in the arrival airport; if the alarm inside the plane went off the airplane would have landed in a different airport)? I like this guess though would she escape the arrest thanks to the evacuation?
Was she a thief? A murderer? This Trafficking?

Is the fact that she is a female relevant? For instance she was pregnant. No, the puzzle would still work if Brooke were male
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Re: [Balin] Uplifting

Postby Earnest » Thu Jun 08, 2017 7:26 am

Relevant the reason why the alarm did not go off? Someone manipulated it? Or it was broken?If the alarm went off would it make noise?Trigger a trap?Was the alarm connected to a physical device?Was it positioned on a door?On a window?On the floor?Was it activate by a pressure?Like a trapdoor?Could it be considered a weapon(such as a mine)?

Relevant where she was? In a building?In a room?Outside?Inside?In a house?Her house?Victim house?In a park?Public place?

Would she escape by:hiding herself?Broking a window?Killing the police(was she arrested by police right?)?
A murder: any dead body in the nearby?Since she was discovered shortly after the crime, could we suppose that police was in the nearby?Or she was surrounded by people?Relevant how she killed her victim (hope not to incur in a FA)?With a knife?A gun?Hanging?
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Re: [Balin] Uplifting

Postby Balin » Thu Jun 08, 2017 9:59 am

Relevant the reason why the alarm did not go off? Yes Someone manipulated it? Noish Or it was broken? No
If the alarm went off would it make noise? Yes Trigger a trap? No
Was the alarm connected to a physical device? Yes
Was it positioned on a door? On a window? On the floor? None of these
Was it activate by a pressure? It detected weight, so presumably Yes? Like a trapdoor? No Could it be considered a weapon (such as a mine)? No

Relevant where she was? Yes In a building? Yes In a room? YesISH Outside? No Inside? Yes In a house? She lived there, but it was not a house Her house? See previous Victim house? No In a park? No Public place? Yope

Would she escape by:hiding herself? No Breaking a window? No Killing the police No (was she arrested by police right?)? Yes
A murder: any dead body in the nearby? Yes
Since she was discovered shortly after the crime FA! could we suppose that police was in the nearby? Yes Or she was surrounded by people? There were others relevantly nearby
Relevant how she killed her victim (hope not to incur in a FA)? Not really With a knife? A gun? Hanging? Blow to the head
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Re: [Balin] Uplifting

Postby Earnest » Thu Jun 08, 2017 12:42 pm

FA: was she discovered?was she seen committing the crime?did she herself commit the crime?

Did she suffer from relevant medical/mental diseases?

In her plans, was the alarm meant to be turned on by her in an appropriate moment?By others?So was the alarm on her hands?On the dead body?On a piece of furniture?

Public place: did she live in the public place where she committed the crime? Did she live there permanently? Hospital?A particular hospital?Was it a conventional place to live in? Or a strange one?Such as a church?A museum?A Bank? Or again was she in a specific part of a building such as an elevator?Dressing room?Office?Bathroom?

Would the alarm create panic so that Brook would be allowed to escape blending into the crowd?
Were other people present in the same room as her?How many people was there a part from her and the dead body: 1? 2? 3? 4? 5? 10? More? Role of them: accomplices? People who work in that place (for instance doctors)? Bystanders? Were they there by chance? For a specific reason?
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Re: [Balin] Uplifting

Postby GalFisk » Thu Jun 08, 2017 2:10 pm

Would the alarm go off if weight: increased? Decreased? Disappeared? Appeared? Weight of: a person? Vehicle? Other object? Would the noise be: a beeping? Siren? Rattling? Ringing? Clanging/jangling? Explosion? Would it be produced from a speaker? Mechanical device? Bell?
Edit: would the alarm going off prevent some device from operating? Such as an overloaded elevator not running? Is it an overload alarm? If it had gone off, would Brooke hear it? If it had gone off, would any relevant police action be changed? Delayed? Absent? Did Brooke know about the presence of the alarm? Did she rely on it going off?
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Re: [Balin] Uplifting

Postby SurfingPikachu » Sat Jun 10, 2017 5:21 am

Was the alarm supposed to have been triggered directly or indirectly by the murder victim? Did its absence clue the police to the presence or time of the murder?
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Re: [Balin] Uplifting

Postby Balin » Sat Jun 10, 2017 1:44 pm

FA: was she discovered? Eventually, but not right away was she seen committing the crime?No did she herself commit the crime? Yes

Did she suffer from relevant medical/mental diseases? No

In her plans, was the alarm meant to be turned on by her in an appropriate moment? By others? No to both
So was the alarm on her hands? On the dead body? On a piece of furniture? No to all, see below

Public place: did she live in the public place where she committed the crime? Yes Did she live there permanently? Yes Hospital? A particular hospital? Neither
Was it a conventional place to live in? Or a strange one? Depends on your opinion Such as a church? This is closest. It was a multi-level building used for worship and religious training A museum? A Bank?
Or again was she in a specific part of a building such as an elevator? This, exactly! Dressing room? Office?
Bathroom?

Would the alarm create panic so that Brooke would be allowed to escape blending into the crowd? No
Were other people present in the same room as her? Yes, svv of "room" (see above) How many people was there apart from her and the dead body: 1? At one point, this 2? 3? 4? 5? But there were also a few people nearby 10? More?
Role of them: accomplices? People who work in that place (for instance doctors)? Some were this Bystanders? But all were this Were they there by chance? For a specific reason? This, but of minimal relevance

Would the alarm go off if weight: increased? [b]This
Decreased? Disappeared? Appeared?
Weight of: a person? Mainly this Vehicle? Other object?
Would the noise be: a beeping? Siren? Rattling? Ringing? Clanging/jangling? Explosion? A buzzer, but irrel
Would it be produced from a speaker? This, but again irrel Mechanical device? Bell?

Would the alarm going off prevent some device from operating? Such as an overloaded elevator not running? Is it an overload alarm? Exactly!
If it had gone off, would Brooke hear it? Yes If it had gone off, would any relevant police action be changed? Delayed? Absent? Assume No to all Did Brooke know about the presence of the alarm? Yes Did she rely on it going off? No

Was the alarm supposed to have been triggered directly or indirectly by the murder victim? No Did its absence clue the police to the presence or time of the murder? Neither, with a large -ISH to the former

Welcome to the forum Pikachu!
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Re: [Balin] Uplifting

Postby Earnest » Sat Jun 10, 2017 2:08 pm

ahahahhaahha very nice combo GalFisk!!! And welcome Pickachu!!!
So if the alarm were get off would the elevator stop at a floor different from the one where it stops? Did the elevator stop in front of the people who saw her and called the police?
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Re: [Balin] Uplifting

Postby SurfingPikachu » Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:13 pm

Thanks for the welcome!

Wow I am intrigued! So the setting is not a church, but a "multi-level building used for worship and religious training", and presumably apart from the "multi-level=has elevator" part, the "worship and religious training" part is also relevant? Is perchance religious extremism involved?

Brooke owns the alarm system, so does she own the building as well? Is her position wrt the building or the religious group relevant? (e.g. is she a landlord or religious leader?)

When you say Brooke and the murder victim's body were in the elevator, do you really mean just the elevator? Does the elevator shaft play a part? Does the elevator counterweight play a part? Did the murder victim enter the elevator alive? Was the body left in a position in the elevator where it is obviously seen (as dead?) by anyone entering the elevator? Or was it removed from the elevator?

When you say the alarm did not go off, was there an overload scenario where it would be expected to have gone off but did not? Or did the alarm just not go off because there was never an overload scenario? If the former, does the elevator refuse to operate or attempt to operate with overload?

Is the victim HAM? Is there any importance regarding the relationship of the victim to Brooke? The building? The religious group?

Did the alarm not going off give cause for any CCTV footage of the elevator to be reviewed? Or give cause for an elevator mechanic to investigate? Was either of these the reason (or part of) for the discovery of the murder?

If the alarm did go off and Brooke escaped arrest, would it be due to non-discovery of the murder? Discovery but not knowing who the murderer is? Suspicion but lack of evidence?
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Re: [Balin] Uplifting

Postby Balin » Sun Jun 11, 2017 2:32 am

So if the alarm were get off would the elevator stop at a floor different from the one where it stops? Possible FA Did the elevator stop in front of the people who saw her and called the police? Yes, but they did not call the police when they saw her in the elevator

Wow I am intrigued! So the setting is not a church, but a "multi-level building used for worship and religious training", and presumably apart from the "multi-level=has elevator" part, the "worship and religious training" part is also relevant? It's relevant to the motive of the murder (which is not relevant to the puzzle), but not to the method (which is relevant) Is perchance religious extremism involved? No, see prev

Brooke owns the alarm system, so does she own the building as well? Assume Yes Is her position with the building or the religious group relevant? Somewhat (e.g. is she a landlord or religious leader?) The latter

When you say Brooke and the murder victim's body were in the elevator, do you really mean just the elevator? Yes Does the elevator shaft play a part? Yes, good q Does the elevator counterweight play a part? No
Did the murder victim enter the elevator alive? NO Was the body left in a position in the elevator where it is obviously seen Yes (as dead?) No! by anyone entering the elevator? Or was it removed from the elevator? YOPE!

Good set of questions!


When you say the alarm did not go off, was there an overload scenario where it would be expected to have gone off but did not? Or did the alarm just not go off because there was never an overload scenario? This, explore If the former, does the elevator refuse to operate or attempt to operate with overload?

Is the victim HAM? Yes
Is there any importance regarding the relationship of the victim to Brooke? The building? The religious group? Again, to the motive Yes, to the method No

Did the alarm not going off give cause for any CCTV footage of the elevator to be reviewed? No Or give cause for an elevator mechanic to investigate? No Was either of these the reason (or part of) for the discovery of the murder?

If the alarm did go off and Brooke escaped arrest, would it be due to non-discovery of the murder? Discovery but not knowing who the murderer is? This Suspicion but lack of evidence?
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Re: [Balin] Uplifting

Postby SurfingPikachu » Sun Jun 11, 2017 3:26 am

I have a guess, except the elevator shaft does not play a part:

Brooke kills the victim and hides his body in a "heavy cargo" box and wheels it into the elevator on a cargo trolley. More people cram into the elevator but no one finds anything amiss, or not amiss enough to raise suspicions. There is no overload and thus no alarm. Brooke leaves the elevator normally.

Later on, the victim is missed, police trace him to "last seen at this building", investigate CCTV footage or interview eyewitnesses, and get suspicious over this one scene where heavy cargo was transported but the elevator did not overload, leading them to focus their investigation on Brooke and eventually find enough evidence to arrest.
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Re: [Balin] Uplifting

Postby Earnest » Sun Jun 11, 2017 11:56 am

Was Brooke in the elevator with her victim? If so, alone with the victim? Was the body placed inside the elevator?Outside?Above?Under?On the shaft? Any blood trace relevant?Were there other people in the elevator? Was the elevator used just as an elevator? Was it relevantly used by the religious group? Was Brooke in charge of activating the alarm? and did not? Ok...horrible question...: Was the body torn apart? Did Brooke try to make the body appear as a drunken/drug addicted person?Did Brook relevantly press some of the elevator buttons?If so, with herself inside the elevator?

Would the alarm usually get off in a similar situation?Was Brooke present in the elevator when the alarm was supposed to get off?If the alarm got off: would the elevator stop? Would the elevator fall? Would the people eventually present in the elevator exit? Would the noise of the alarm allow Brooke to do something relevant ?Would the doors of the elevator relevantly open? Would this allow Brooke to act as maintenance women?To have the excuse of "controlling what went wrong?"Relevant at which floor they were?If so ground floor?First floor?Higher floors?

Was Brooke arrested inside the elevator?Outside?On the shaft?Inside the building?Outside?
Was the body removed from the elevator by Brooke? Others?
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Re: [Balin] Uplifting

Postby Balin » Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:52 pm

I have a guess, except the elevator shaft does not play a part:
Brooke kills the victim and hides his body in a "heavy cargo" box and wheels it into the elevator on a cargo trolley. More people cram into the elevator but no one finds anything amiss, or not amiss enough to raise suspicions. There is no overload and thus no alarm. Brooke leaves the elevator normally.
Later on, the victim is missed, police trace him to "last seen at this building", investigate CCTV footage or interview eyewitnesses, and get suspicious over this one scene where heavy cargo was transported but the elevator did not overload, leading them to focus their investigation on Brooke and eventually find enough evidence to arrest.
Clever idea, but that's not it.

Was Brooke in the elevator with her victim? Yes If so, alone with the victim? Yes
Was the body placed inside the elevator? Yes... Outside? At some point, also Yes!... Above? At some point, also Yes... Under? No On the shaft? No
Any blood trace relevant? No
Were there other people in the elevator? At some point!
Was the elevator used just as an elevator? Yes Was it relevantly used by the religious group? Yes
Was Brooke in charge of activating the alarm? and did not? Neither
Ok...horrible question...: Was the body torn apart? No. But don't worry; horrible questions on the LTPF are often fruitful.
Did Brooke try to make the body appear as a drunken/drug addicted person? No
Did Brooke relevantly press some of the elevator buttons? If so, with herself inside the elevator? Yes to both

Would the alarm usually get off in a similar situation? Yope
Was Brooke present in the elevator when the alarm was supposed to get off? Yes
If the alarm got off: would the elevator stop? The elevator was stopped Would the elevator fall? No Would the people eventually present in the elevator exit? One would, beware FA Would the noise of the alarm allow Brooke to do something relevant? Assume No Would the doors of the elevator relevantly open? They were open when the alarm relevantly didn't go off
Would this allow Brooke to act as maintenance women?To have the excuse of "controlling what went wrong?" No to both
Relevant at which floor they were? Yes If so ground floor? First floor? Higher floors? At the time the alarm didn't go off, the elevator was on the third floor. At other relevant times, it was on the first floor and the fifth floor. (Note that I'm American, so I'm using American descriptions for floor levels.)

Was Brooke arrested inside the elevator? Outside? On the shaft? Inside the building? Outside? In a different building
Was the body removed from the elevator by Brooke? YOPE at one point! Others? Yes
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Re: [Balin] Uplifting

Postby Earnest » Tue Jun 13, 2017 7:15 am

so...ok was Brooke present in the elevator when it was at the third floor?At the first? At the third?
Was the body present inside the elevator when it was at the third floor?At the first? At the third? Same question for outside the elevator and above.

In a first instance, was the body placed inside the elevator?Outside?Above? Was it moved in order to hide it(the body)?Was it always moved by Brooke?Always in/on/out of the same elevator? Do the religious group relevantly used icons?Symbols? Does relevant rituals?uses relevant items?

was the elevator stopped by someone of the religious group?Others?Are video cameras relevant? Were all members of the religious group aware of the death body? did they know about the murder?Were they accomplices?

did the alarm not go off because there was not enough weight? was the body inside the elevator when the alarm did not go off?Outside?Above?

Brooke was arrested in a different building: was her in another elevator?Do the floors that you mentioned belong to the same building?Was her in a near building?was she trying to escape? was the body with her? Was she arrested right after that the alarm did not go off? After hours?Minutes?Days?
Do the fact that the alarm did not go off oblige her to get out at the third floor?To change elevator? Did she reach the other building from the third floor? Or did she used stairs/another elevator to reach the exit of the first building?
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Re: [Balin] Uplifting

Postby SurfingPikachu » Tue Jun 13, 2017 2:17 pm

To ensure that we are all on the same page as to what an elevator overload alarm does:

When the doors are open, and people enter and leave, the total weight of everything in the elevator may change. If it is over a certain threshold, the elevator overload alarm sounds, the doors do not shut, and the elevator refuses to move, until some people leave the elevator such that the total weight is now under the threshold. Right?

If the weight changes while the doors are closed and the elevator is in motion... well such a situation sounds unusual and I do not know what would usually happen. Presumably it is not relevant in this puzzle, right?

Now, from my experience, elevator overload thresholds are usually such that elevators crammed full with people do not exceed thresholds or at most barely do, due to the density of the human body. Such that an absence of overload would not be suspicious even if the elevator was full of people, unless there was some obviously heavy items in the elevator. Would this hold true for the elevator in the puzzle, and would it be relevant?

Again to clarify:
Throughout the puzzle, an overload scenario never occurred? And that was why the elevator overload alarm never went off? Which would mean that the elevator functioned normally? So whenever you say "at the time the alarm didn't go off", you mean "at the time the alarm didn't go off but was 'supposed' to have"?

Now, this causes Brooke to be arrested. Did someone find it suspicious that the overload alarm did not go off? If so, was it during the fact, while it was taking place? Or after the fact? Due to CCTV footage? Due to eyewitnesses?

Or did no one find it suspicious, but the overload alarm not going off simply triggered a different chain of events that led to Brooke being arrested? Was any coincidence involved?

The body was in the elevator but not obvious that it was a dead body. Then was it obvious that it was a human at all? Was it in a container? Or a rubbish bag? Or otherwise disguised? Did it look like something heavy? Is it relevant what it looked like?

Did the body enter and leave the elevator more than once? Twice? Thrice? More? The first time it entered the elevator, was it through the doors? Or through the top from the shaft to the elevator? The first time it left the elevator, was it through the top and into the shaft? Or through the doors and out the elevator? The second time (if there is one) it entered the elevator, was it through the top or doors? The second time it left the elevator, was it through the top or doors? Was the last exit done by someone else other than Brooke? Were the other entries and exits done by Brooke?

When Brooke was later arrested, was it on suspicion of being the murderer of the victim? Or on something unrelated?
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Re: [Balin] Uplifting

Postby Balin » Tue Jun 13, 2017 10:18 pm

so...ok was Brooke present in the elevator when it was at the third floor? At the first? At the fifth? Third only
Was the body present inside the elevator when it was at the third floor? At the first? At the fifth? Third and fifth
Same question for outside the elevator First
and above. First

In a first instance, was the body placed inside the elevator? This, if I understand right Outside? Above?
Was it moved in order to hide it (the body)? Yes Was it always moved by Brooke? YOPE Always in/on/out of the same elevator? Yes
Do the religious group relevantly used icons? Yes, svv of "icon" Symbols? No Does relevant rituals? Yope uses relevant items? Yope, see below

was the elevator stopped by someone of the religious group? Yes. Brooke stopped the elevator at the third floor, exited and hit the first-floor button, then later summoned the elevator back up to the fifth floor Others?
Are video cameras relevant? No
Were all members of the religious group aware of the dead body? Yes did they know about the murder? Yes Were they accomplices? No

did the alarm not go off because there was not enough weight? This
was the body inside the elevator when the alarm did not go off? This Outside? Above?

Brooke was arrested in a different building: was her in another elevator? No Do the floors that you mentioned belong to the same building? Yes, the religious building Was she in a near building? No was she trying to escape? No was the body with her? No
Was she arrested right after that the alarm did not go off? After hours? Minutes? Days? A few days after
Do the fact that the alarm did not go off oblige her to get out at the third floor? No To change elevator? There is only one elevator
Did she reach the other building from the third floor? No Or did she used stairs/another elevator to reach the exit of the first building? Irrel

To ensure that we are all on the same page as to what an elevator overload alarm does:
When the doors are open, and people enter and leave, the total weight of everything in the elevator may change. If it is over a certain threshold, the elevator overload alarm sounds, the doors do not shut, and the elevator refuses to move, until some people leave the elevator such that the total weight is now under the threshold. Right? Right

If the weight changes while the doors are closed and the elevator is in motion... well such a situation sounds unusual and I do not know what would usually happen. Presumably it is not relevant in this puzzle, right? Correct, that is not relevant

Now, from my experience, elevator overload thresholds are usually such that elevators crammed full with people do not exceed thresholds or at most barely do, due to the density of the human body. Such that an absence of overload would not be suspicious even if the elevator was full of people, unless there was some obviously heavy items in the elevator. Would this hold true for the elevator in the puzzle, and would it be relevant? That IS true - there IS an obviously heavy item in the elevator!

Again to clarify:
Throughout the puzzle, an overload scenario never occurred? And that was why the elevator overload alarm never went off? Which would mean that the elevator functioned normally? So whenever you say "at the time the alarm didn't go off", you mean "at the time the alarm didn't go off but was 'supposed' to have"? Yes to all!

Now, this causes Brooke to be arrested. Yes, but note the time frame above
Did someone find it suspicious that the overload alarm did not go off?Yes If so, was it during the fact, while it was taking place? Or after the fact? This Due to CCTV footage? Due to eyewitnesses? This, and one of them had taken a photograph of the key moment

Or did no one find it suspicious, but the overload alarm not going off simply triggered a different chain of events that led to Brooke being arrested? Not really Was any coincidence involved? No

The body was in the elevator but not obvious that it was a dead body.Correct Then was it obvious that it was a human at all? Yes
Was it in a container? Or a rubbish bag? Or otherwise disguised? Did it look like something heavy? None of these
Is it relevant what it looked like? Yes, see above

Did the body enter and leave the elevator more than once? Twice? Thrice? More? Entered, exited, re-entered
The first time it entered the elevator, was it through the doors? This Or through the top from the shaft to the elevator?
The first time it left the elevator, was it through the top and into the shaft? This Or through the doors and out the elevator?
The second time (if there is one) it entered the elevator, was it through the top or doors? Top
The second time it left the elevator, was it through the top or doors? There is no second time it left Was the last exit done by someone else other than Brooke? No Were the other entries and exits done by Brooke? The first one directly, the others indirectly

When Brooke was later arrested, was it on suspicion of being the murderer of the victim? Yes Or on something unrelated? No

Nice haul of questions, both of you!
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Re: [Balin] Uplifting

Postby SurfingPikachu » Wed Jun 14, 2017 5:32 am

Wait, all members of the religious group knew about the murder and the dead body? You mean during the puzzle and not after the arrest? Did they know, or think they know, who the murderer was then? Were they the same people who were in the elevator?

The victim was dead upon entering the elevator? And was obviously seen by the other occupants or bystanders, as a human, but not as obviously dead? Seen as sick? Unconscious? Sleeping? Did they know the victim? Was the victim seen with Brooke?

So Brooke brought the body into the elevator through the front door? On the fifth floor? Was this witnessed?

Indirectly caused it to exit via the top? At the third floor? Was this witnessed? By tying it with a rope and pressing the first floor button?

Then summoned the elevator to the fifth floor? Which would cause the body to reenter the elevator? Was the reentry witnessed?

And there was another relevantly heavy-looking object which was witnessed, which was not the body, and which would be suspected of triggering the alarm but did not?

Which floors was it seen? With the body?
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Re: [Balin] Uplifting

Postby Earnest » Wed Jun 14, 2017 8:13 am

so...something unclear...Brooke was present also at the fifth floor right? Did she put the body inside the elevator at the fifth floor?So summary: Brooke puts the body inside the elevator at the fifth floor and enters with the body right? Then at the third floor something happens and the alarm did not go off (does someone enter in the elevator in the meanwhile?) and Brook exit the elevator pushing the button to the first floor right?Then at the first floor the body exit the elevator through the top and enters again from the top?
Now...was the body manipulated? Was there a rope or something? In exiting from the top did someone relevantly touch it? Or did the body exit as a consequence of physical events? gravity for instance?

Horrible question again...was the body "lighter" than an usual body? To be sure...was the victim recently murdered? (I mean...she was not a skeleton right?)...again to be sure...are gravity related facts relevant (accelerations/braking)? Normal elevator with normal conditions (no absence of gravity for instance)?

That IS true - there IS an obviously heavy item in the elevator!: Was it the body on the elevator?Brooke?
Was the elevator capable to bear the weight of n people but, counting the body there were n+1 people? Moreover, the religious group was aware of the murder: but did they know who was murdered? Did Brooke place the body inside the elevator in order to confuse their ideas? Was the religious group convicted at the first floor?
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Re: [Balin] Uplifting

Postby Balin » Wed Jun 14, 2017 2:01 pm

Wait, all members of the religious group knew about the murder and the dead body? Yes You mean during the puzzle and not after the arrest? Yes (because the arrest happened well after the body was discovered) Did they know, or think they know, who the murderer was then? They thought they knew Were they the same people who were in the elevator? At one point, one of them only!

The victim was dead upon entering the elevator? Yes And was obviously seen by the other occupants or bystanders, as a human, but not as obviously dead? Yes Seen as sick? Unconscious? Sleeping? None of these Did they know the victim? They knew who he was Was the victim seen with Brooke? Yes

So Brooke brought the body into the elevator through the front door? Yes On the fifth floor? Yes Was this witnessed? No

Indirectly caused it to exit via the top? Yes At the third floor? Yes Was this witnessed? No By tying it with a rope and pressing the first floor button? Yes, continue...

Then summoned the elevator to the fifth floor? Yes! Which would cause the body to reenter the elevator? Yes! Was the reentry witnessed? No

And there was another relevantly heavy-looking object which was witnessed, which was not the body, and which would be suspected of triggering the alarm but did not? Yes, Yes, No

Which floors was it seen? The heavy-looking object? It is always in the elevator With the body? Third and fifth

so...something unclear...Brooke was present also at the fifth floor right? Yes Did she put the body inside the elevator at the fifth floor? Yes

So summary: Brooke puts the body inside the elevator at the fifth floor and enters with the body right? Then at the third floor something happens and the alarm did not go off (does someone enter in the elevator in the meanwhile?) YES! and Brooke exit the elevator pushing the button to the first floor right?Then at the first floor the body exit the elevator through the top and enters again from the top? This is all correct!
Now...was the body manipulated? Was there a rope or something? YES!
In exiting from the top did someone relevantly touch it? No Or did the body exit as a consequence of physical events? Yes, see above gravity for instance?

Horrible question again...was the body "lighter" than an usual body? No To be sure...was the victim recently murdered? Yes, right before being placed in the elevator (I mean...she was not a skeleton right?) Right, also victim is male ...again to be sure...are gravity related facts relevant (accelerations/braking)? See above Normal elevator with normal conditions (no absence of gravity for instance)? Right

That IS true - there IS an obviously heavy item in the elevator!: Was it the body on the elevator? No Brooke? No
Was the elevator capable to bear the weight of n people but, counting the body there were n+1 people? No, but not entirely off-track Moreover, the religious group was aware of the murder: but did they know who was murdered? Yes Did Brooke place the body inside the elevator in order to confuse their ideas? Yes, somehow Was the religious group convicted at the first floor? They weren't involved in the murder, so they weren't convicted at all

Great progress. Only one or two key details left...
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Re: [Balin] Uplifting

Postby Earnest » Wed Jun 14, 2017 2:21 pm

Did Brooke want to trick the member of the religious group? Let them think that the body was alive? Scare them? Let them think she is capable to do supernatural things?

Did the alarm not gone off because the body was "suspended" thanks to the rope?Was the rope tied to the top of the elevator? was it visible to the others in the elevator? On the first floor, was Brooke on the elevator? in the shaft? Did brooke "manipulate" the rope?
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Re: [Balin] Uplifting

Postby SurfingPikachu » Wed Jun 14, 2017 3:05 pm

So it was the body's exit from the elevator that was witnessed? Not the reentry? And this exit seemed in the absence of Brooke?

Did the body look alive? Supernatural? Was it tied with rope around neck? Chest? Waist? Arm? Leg?

Was the heavy object a coffin? Cross? Religion related? Furniture? Was the body in it? On it?

(You say we are nearly there but I'm getting more confused and intrigued and horrified with each answer. Bodies entering confined elevators via ropes. What an awesomely horrifying puzzle.)
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Re: [Balin] Uplifting

Postby Balin » Thu Jun 15, 2017 7:40 pm

Did Brooke want to trick the member of the religious group? Yes... Let them think that the body was alive? THIS! Scare them? Let them think she is capable to do supernatural things?

Did the alarm not gone off because the body was "suspended" thanks to the rope? YES! Was the rope tied to the top of the elevator? Yes was it visible to the others in the elevator? No
On the first floor, was Brooke on the elevator? in the shaft? Did Brooke "manipulate" the rope? None of these

So it was the body's exit from the elevator that was witnessed? This wasn't witnessed either! Not the reentry? And this exit seemed in the absence of Brooke?

Did the body look alive? YES! Supernatural? Was it tied with rope around neck? Chest? Waist? Arm? Leg? None of these, but "neck" would probably work

Was the heavy object a coffin? Cross? Religion related? It was a statue they worshiped Furniture? Was the body in it? On it? No

(You say we are nearly there but I'm getting more confused and intrigued and horrified with each answer. Bodies entering confined elevators via ropes. What an awesomely horrifying puzzle.) Actually, I'd say these questions are enough to post the

****SPOILER****

This is one of the cases from the Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney manga.

Brooke was the head of a new religious cult. The victim was a detective investigating the group, alleging (rightly) that Brooke was a fraud.

After killing the detective on the fifth floor, Brooke placed his body in the elevator and attached it to fishing line she had previously tied to the top of the elevator, then rode down to the third floor, where a crowd of people (followers, visitors) acted as witnesses.

At the third floor, the fishing line stretched tight, making it look like the detective was alive and standing in the elevator, where he was not allowed. Her second-in-command stepped into the elevator before being ordered out. Brooke also stepped out and sent the elevator to the first floor. At the first floor, a new follower reported that the elevator had arrived, but empty (the fishing line had lifted the detective's body through the hatch in the top of the elevator). Everyone present searched the building from bottom to top, before summoning the elevator to the fifth floor. On the way up, the elevator collected the detective's body, so when the doors opened on the fifth floor, everyone saw the body lying there.

Initially, investigators decided the new follower had committed the murder and placed her on trial. But at the trial, Wright realized that the overcapacity alarm for the elevator should have gone off when the second-in-command stepped into the elevator on the third floor. Since it did not, the detective must have already been dead and been suspended by strings, and the only person who could have manipulated circumstances that was was Brooke.

Well done everyone, especially Earnest and Pikachu for working their way through to the end!
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Re: [Balin] Uplifting (*IN SUSPENSION*)

Postby Earnest » Thu Jun 15, 2017 7:58 pm

very nice !!!!!!! Thank you
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Re: [Balin] Uplifting (*IN SUSPENSION*)

Postby SurfingPikachu » Fri Jun 16, 2017 5:53 am

So you're saying,

with the elevator hatch being clearly open,

with there clearly being strings attached to the body, (hey someone's gotta detach them to dispose of the body?)

with the body clearly being suspended, perhaps with eyes closed, head drooping or lolling, lack of facial expressions, arms and knees slack, and torso extended,

notwithstanding the fact that Brooke accurately measured the length needed for the feet to just touch the ground,

the ONE suspicious thing that was picked up on, was the fact that the total weight in the elevator was within one bodyweight away from exceeding the threshold, usually in the 1200kg range?

Riiiiight..... *backs away slowly*

Hehehe I kid I kid :P Thanks for the puzzle!
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Re: [Balin] Uplifting (*IN SUSPENSION*)

Postby Balin » Fri Jun 16, 2017 1:58 pm

Glad you liked it!

As it turns out, I can access that particular issue, so I can answer some of your OBJECTION!s.

-the inside of the elevator was not well-lit, so the open hatch wasn't noticed;
-the body was strung up with fishing line, which wasn't easily visible;
-when the body was first found, Brooke told everyone else present to find a doctor/call an ambulance, giving her time to detach the strings;
-the victim was a detective who wore a fedora and trench coat like a noir detective, and usually kept his head down and hands in his pockets;
-Brooke had practiced the night before with another statue, so she knew how long the strings had to be;
-Brooke had met the detective before, so she knew his height;
-there was more than one suspicious thing: the detective had a broken leg and needed a crutch to walk, but when seen in the elevator, he did not have his crutch;
-the building had a pamphlet about the cult which listed everyone's weight (and that of the statue), and the autopsy report listed the victim's.

That all said...

yeah, suspension of disbelief.
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Re: [Balin] Uplifting (*IN SUSPENSION*)

Postby SurfingPikachu » Fri Jun 16, 2017 3:49 pm

Well, fair enough!
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