[Balin] Sync or swim

An archive of solved lateral thinking puzzles.

Moderators: peter365, Balin, kalira, JenBurdoo, Tiger

[Balin] Sync or swim

Postby Balin » Tue Jun 27, 2017 2:24 am

Clarissa was arrested because Faith didn't wash her hands. Why?
Clarissa and Faith are both H/A/F
Balin
 
Posts: 6103
Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 11:12 pm
Location: Connecticut, USA

Re: [Balin] Sync or swim

Postby Earnest » Tue Jun 27, 2017 6:18 am

Are Clarissa and Faith related to each other? Is one the victim of the crime of the other?Are they accomplices in a crime?Were the relatives?Are both of them alive?Is Faith? Was Clarissa a criminal?Was Faith? Was Clarissa innocent? Or was she "justly" arrested? After how many time was her arrested? Within seconds?Minutes? hours?Days?Months?More? Did Faith relevantly touch Clarissa with her dirty hands? If Faith had washed her hands, would Clarissa be able to escape? Wouldn't suspects be focused on her? Would Faith be arrested instead?or was Faith arrested as well? Did the police arrest Clarissa thanks to fingerprints of Faith?

Faith didn't wash her hands...were them dirty? If so, were the hands dirtied by something organic?Blood?Food?Drink?Dust?Something that could "produce" tracks?Fingerprints?Ink?A chemical substance? A toxic substance?
Wash her hands with water? I mean....were Faith's hands clean and they would be "dirtied" through the washing?(I know it looks like a contradiction but I think of washing with a difference substance than water). Would the relevant part of the washing be the soap on her hands? The fact that her hands would be clean after the washing? Would Clarissa not be arrested if Faith had not only washed her hands but also dried them? Had Clarissa relevantly dirty hands as well?

Are Clarissa and Faith professions relevant? If so, do they share the same profession?Is it important to wash hands in their profession?Do the crime involve their job? Are they scientists? Do they work with electronic? Toxic substances?
Earnest
 
Posts: 831
Joined: Tue May 30, 2017 7:52 am

Re: [Balin] Sync or swim

Postby GalFisk » Tue Jun 27, 2017 1:43 pm

Is Clarissa guilty of a crime? Is a DNA test relevant? Other chemical or biological test? Did Faith want Clarissa arrested? Did she know that not washing her hands would help get her arrested?
GalFisk
 
Posts: 7185
Joined: Tue May 27, 2014 8:03 pm
Location: Sweden

Re: [Balin] Sync or swim

Postby SurfingPikachu » Tue Jun 27, 2017 2:05 pm

Also, obligatory "Is this another Ace Attorney question?" :P

And to be sure, washing hands here is literal and not metaphorical?
SurfingPikachu
 
Posts: 276
Joined: Fri Jun 09, 2017 3:44 pm

Re: [Balin] Sync or swim

Postby Balin » Wed Jun 28, 2017 8:42 pm

Are Clarissa and Faith related to each other? No Is one the victim of the crime of the other? No Are they accomplices in a crime? No Were they relatives? No
Are both of them alive? Yes Is Faith? So yes
Was Clarissa a criminal? Yes Was Faith? No
Was Clarissa innocent? Or was she "justly" arrested? This
After how many time was her arrested? A few days - see below Within seconds? Minutes? hours? Days?
Months? More?
Did Faith relevantly touch Clarissa with her dirty hands? No
If Faith had washed her hands, would Clarissa be able to escape? Yes Wouldn't suspects be focused on her? Yes Would Faith be arrested instead? No or was Faith arrested as well? No
Did the police arrest Clarissa thanks to fingerprints of Faith? No

Faith didn't wash her hands...were them dirty? Yes If so, were the hands dirtied by something organic?
Blood? Food? Drink? Dust? Something that could "produce" tracks? Fingerprints? Ink? This A chemical substance? A toxic substance?
Wash her hands with water? Yes, also with soap I mean....were Faith's hands clean and they would be "dirtied" through the washing? No (I know it looks like a contradiction but I think of washing with a difference substance than water).
Would the relevant part of the washing be the soap on her hands? The fact that her hands would be clean after the washing? This
Would Clarissa not be arrested if Faith had not only washed her hands but also dried them? Yes
Had Clarissa relevantly dirty hands as well? No

Are Clarissa and Faith professions relevant? Yes for Clarissa, No for Faith If so, do they share the same profession? No Is it important to wash hands in their profession? No Do the crime involve their job? Yes (Clarissa's job) Are they scientists? Do they work with electronic? Toxic substances? No to all

Is Clarissa guilty of a crime? Yes Is a DNA test relevant? No Other chemical or biological test? No Did Faith want Clarissa arrested? Not right away Did she know that not washing her hands would help get her arrested? No

Also, obligatory "Is this another Ace Attorney question?" :P Yes... you know me too well... (and once again, it's from the manga, not a game)

And to be sure, washing hands here is literal and not metaphorical? Yes
Balin
 
Posts: 6103
Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 11:12 pm
Location: Connecticut, USA

Re: [Balin] Sync or swim

Postby SurfingPikachu » Thu Jun 29, 2017 2:36 pm

Was either aware of the existence of the other? Did they interact during the course of this puzzle? Anyone else relevant in this puzzle? A victim? Was the crime murder? Theft? Robbery? (Does Ace Attorney only involve creative murders?)

Is there only one relevant location in this puzzle? One location with sub-locations? Many locations? Does it contain a washroom or is entirely a washroom? Is it the place where Clarissa does her job? Is this place an office? Shop? Home? Are both women in the same location during this puzzle? Sub-location?
SurfingPikachu
 
Posts: 276
Joined: Fri Jun 09, 2017 3:44 pm

Re: [Balin] Sync or swim

Postby biograd » Thu Jun 29, 2017 5:37 pm

Did Faith get ink smudges from her dirty hands on some sort of document? such that it allowed someone to conclude that she had touched it? or similarly, did her hands get dirty from touching a relevant document, smudging it in the process? such that it similarly showed that she had touched it? or that the ink on it hadn't dried by a certain point in time? Speaking of which, was the ink from a pen? or a computer printer?

Was Faith ever a suspect? Was she a witness to something (if not Clarissa's crime itself, something that was related to it)?
biograd
 
Posts: 511
Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2014 11:25 am

Re: [Balin] Sync or swim

Postby Earnest » Fri Jun 30, 2017 6:23 am

did Clarissa have a work that involves relationship with the public?was Faith present when Clarissa committed the crime? Did Faith buy something in the place where Clarissa worked? Was Faith a client of Clarissa? Was Faith dirtied by printer's ink? Tattoo's ink?Ink for pens? Crime of Clarissa: murder?robbery?financial crime? others?

Does Clarissa's job involves ink? If so...printer's ink? Ink for pens? Ink for tattoos?
Did Faith wash her hands in the bathroom of her house? In the place where Clarissa worked? Relevant? If so, did Faith relevantly dirtied the sink where she washed her hands? Has she relevantly dirtied the machine/the "box" containing the soap? Has she relevantly dirtied someone/something in washing her hands? Is the water with which she washed her hands relevant?
Earnest
 
Posts: 831
Joined: Tue May 30, 2017 7:52 am

Re: [Balin] Sync or swim

Postby Balin » Sat Jul 01, 2017 12:08 pm

Was either aware of the existence of the other? Yes, both Did they interact during the course of this puzzle? Yes Anyone else relevant in this puzzle? Yes A victim? The victim is H/A/F. There are also two other people relevant, one H/A/F and H/A/M each
Was the crime murder? This Theft? Robbery? (Does Ace Attorney only involve creative murders?) There are a couple exceptions, but almost always

Is there only one relevant location in this puzzle? One location with sub-locations? This Many locations? Does it contain a washroom or is entirely a washroom? It contains a washroom, but no one enters it during the course of the puzzle
Is it the place where Clarissa does her job? Yes Is this place an office? Shop? Home? "Shop" is closest Are both women in the same location during this puzzle? Yes Sub-location? At one point, Yes

Did Faith get ink smudges from her dirty hands on some sort of document? No such that it allowed someone to conclude that she had touched it?
or similarly, did her hands get dirty from touching a relevant document, smudging it in the process? No such that it similarly showed that she had touched it?
or that the ink on it hadn't dried by a certain point in time? This has some importance
Speaking of which, was the ink from a pen? or a computer printer? Neither. It was from an ink pad/ink roller

Was Faith ever a suspect? No Was she a witness to something (if not Clarissa's crime itself, something that was related to it)? Not exactly... call it a Yope?

did Clarissa have a work that involves relationship with the public? Yes was Faith present when Clarissa committed the crime? Present where? Did Faith buy something in the place where Clarissa worked? She paid for a service (svv of "service") Was Faith a client of Clarissa? Yes
Was Faith dirtied by printer's ink? Tattoo's ink? Ink for pens? See above
Crime of Clarissa: murder? robbery? financial crime? others? Murder

Does Clarissa's job involves ink? No, but... If so...printer's ink? Ink for pens? Ink for tattoos?
Did Faith wash her hands in the bathroom of her house? In the place where Clarissa worked? She didn't wash her hands at all, but the relevant bathroom is here Relevant? Yes If so, did Faith relevantly dirtied the sink where she washed her hands? See previous Has she relevantly dirtied the machine/the "box" containing the soap? See previous Has she relevantly dirtied someone/something in washing her hands? In not washing her hands, YES! (Someone) Is the water with which she washed her hands relevant? See previous
Balin
 
Posts: 6103
Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 11:12 pm
Location: Connecticut, USA

Re: [Balin] Sync or swim

Postby Earnest » Sat Jul 01, 2017 1:45 pm

Was Faith aware of the victim? Was the victim in he relevant bathroom? Did Faith dirtied the victim of Clarissa's crime? Did Faith go in the relevant bathroom to do something else than washing her hands? If so, did she noticed the victim?Did she want Clarissa to be arrested? Did she think the victim was alive? Did the relevant thing that make Clarissa been discovered happened before Faith entered the bathroom? While she was in the bathroom? After?(something like she paid Clarissa with dirtied money?)

So Faith didn't wash her hands...but this doesn't imply that her hands were clean after she went in the relevant bathroom right? I mean...did she rub her hands against the victim? Against someone else? And again...were her hands dirty before she entered the relevant bathroom (the bathroom in the place of work of Clarissa)? Were them clean after she went out of the bathroom? Were them wet? Did the ink allow police to locate the victim?To understand how the victim was killed? If so, thanks to the same ink that was on Faith's hands?Was the victim found in the place where Clarissa used to work?

Relevant which part(s) of Faith's hands was (were) dirty? Palms? Back?The side?Just few fingers? Makeup relevant somehow? Chemical substances? Evaporation? Is the color of the ink relevant? Did the victim bleed? If not, was the victim poisoned? With ink (don't know if it is possible)? Was the victim killed with ink?Has Clarissa relevantly hided the victim in her place of work? Did the murder happen days before Faith enter the place of work of Clarissa?Hours?Minutes?Seconds?

So...there are five people in the puzzle right? Clarissa, Faith, the victim and other two, a H/A/F and a H/A/M, correct? Were the other two client of Clarissa as well?Did they work for/with Clarissa? Were them policeman? Did they go in the relevant bathroom? Was them dirtied by ink as well? If so, did they wash their hands?Did they have suspects on Clarissa? Were them a couple? Related to each other? Did Clarissa provide them a service? Is the services she provide "usual" for a certain category of people? Couples? Old aged? Young people? People with diseases? People with sentimental problems? With problems related o work?Other problems?
Did Clarissa's job involves houses?Marriages?Dead bodies?Religion? Animals?Signing documents? Does her job require a degree? If so in medicine? A scientific discipline? Biology?Chemistry?Did she work in a drugstore? Did she sold food?Drink? Did she work alone?

Do Clarissa's clients usually dirty their hands with ink? If so, do they usually/always wash their hands? Did Clarissa commit the crime basing on this awareness? Was the victim a client of Clarissa?
Clarissa was discovered within days...did the ink produced a chemical phenomenon with the dead body at the time? Did the dead body smell at that time? If so, could someone who enter the shop be aware of the bad smell? If so, was it thanks t Faith's ink? Was the someone dirtied by Faith's hands dirtied on the face? On the hands? Other part of the body? Directly on the skin? On his/her clothes? Relevant? Was Clarissa dirtied by Faith's ink? If so, did it direct the suspects on her? Because the ink was present also somewhere in the nearby of the body?On the body? In the mouth of the body? On the weapon with which the body was killed? ...are there connections between the ink and the blood of the victim? (strange question)

Stupid guesses--> guess 1) did Faith accidentally dirtied the expensive dress of one of the two present in Clarissa's place of work and this caused a quarrel so they decided to call the police? guess 2) did the fact that Faith dirtied someone cause something to happen that make them call the police? I know the answer is no because you said that Clarissa was arrested within few days, but I'll try.
Earnest
 
Posts: 831
Joined: Tue May 30, 2017 7:52 am

Re: [Balin] Sync or swim

Postby SurfingPikachu » Sun Jul 02, 2017 7:58 am

So, Faith was a paying customer of Clarissa's for a "service"? (Those quotes are so throwing me off. I want to ask if the Goods and Services Tax department would outright call this an actual service. After all, if you're not paying for goods, then you're paying for a service?)

Shall we call the relevant people Alice and Bob? And the victim Zoe?

Which of these were colleagues of Clarissa? Other paying customers like Faith? Passers-by?
Accomplices of Clarissa? Knew of the death? Knew it was murder? Knew who the murderer was?
Of legal professions (policemen, detectives)? Other relevant relationships (families, friends, lovers)?

Did Faith get inked on purpose? (If yes, whose purpose? A? B? C? F? Z?) By accident?
Was this inking part of the "service"? Who knew of the inking? Was this knowledge relevant?
Was this inking due to needing to apply a fingerprint to a document?

Did the ink not yet being dry clue someone in to the existence of a period of time where Clarissa's actions were unaccounted for? Or clue someone in to a different or suspicious chronology of events from what he/she was currently led to believe?

The murder took place in this location? Was the body relevantly moved around?

Can we establish a chronology of these events?
- Zoe entering the place
- Faith entering the place
- Zoe being killed
- Faith being inked
- Faith leaving an ink mark (did she?)
- Faith leaving the place
SurfingPikachu
 
Posts: 276
Joined: Fri Jun 09, 2017 3:44 pm

Re: [Balin] Sync or swim

Postby Balin » Sun Jul 02, 2017 3:10 pm

Was Faith aware of the victim? Yes Was the victim in the relevant bathroom? No Did Faith dirtied the victim of Clarissa's crime? No
Did Faith go in the relevant bathroom to do something else than washing her hands? No If so, did she noticed the victim?
Did she want Clarissa to be arrested? No (as in, she didn't know Clarissa was the killer) Did she think the victim was alive? No
Did the relevant thing that make Clarissa been discovered happened before Faith entered the bathroom? While she was in the bathroom? After? Faith never entered the bathroom, but this (something like she paid Clarissa with dirtied money?) No

So Faith didn't wash her hands...but this doesn't imply that her hands were clean after she went in the relevant bathroom right? Her hands weren't clean (relevant), and she never entered the bathroom. Actually, the bathroom is completely irrelevant except that Faith didn't get to go there and wash her hands
I mean...did she rub her hands against the victim? No Against someone else? Not "rub," but Yes
And again...were her hands dirty before she entered the relevant bathroom (the bathroom in the place of work of Clarissa)? Were them clean after she went out of the bathroom? Were them wet? See above
Did the ink allow police to locate the victim? No To understand how the victim was killed? Yes, in a way If so, thanks to the same ink that was on Faith's hands? Yes Was the victim found in the place where Clarissa used to work? Yes

Relevant which part(s) of Faith's hands was (were) dirty? Yes Palms? This Back? The side? Just few fingers?
Makeup relevant somehow? Chemical substances? Evaporation? No to these
Is the color of the ink relevant? Yes. It's red
Did the victim bleed? Yes If not, was the victim poisoned? With ink (don't know if it is possible)? Was the victim killed with ink? No to these
Has Clarissa relevantly hided the victim in her place of work? Yope Did the murder happen days before Faith enter the place of work of Clarissa? Hours? Minutes? Minutes after Seconds?

So...there are five people in the puzzle right? Clarissa, Faith, the victim and other two, a H/A/F and a H/A/M, correct? Right Were the other two client of Clarissa as well? The H/A/F: "No, but..." The H/A/M: No Did they work for/with Clarissa? The H/A/M did (slight -ish). The H/A/F: No Were them policeman? No Did they go in the relevant bathroom? See earlier Was them dirtied by ink as well? The other H/A/F was If so, did they wash their hands? No Did they have suspects on Clarissa? No Were them a couple? No Related to each other? No Did Clarissa provide them a service? Same "No, but..." as earlier Is the services she provide "usual" for a certain category of people? For all people Couples? Old aged? Young people? People with diseases? People with sentimental problems? With problems related o work? Other problems? Could be any of these
Did Clarissa's job involves houses? Marriages? Dead bodies? Religion? Yope; No to rest Animals? Signing documents?
Does her job require a degree? If so in medicine? A scientific discipline? Biology? Chemistry? No to these
Did she work in a drugstore? Did she sold food? Drink? No to these
Did she work alone? Yes and No - she worked among people who had the same profession as her (I'll help a bit here - the victim and the other H/A/M were her "co-workers")

Do Clarissa's clients usually dirty their hands with ink? Not Clarissa's... If so, do they usually/always wash their hands? Presumably, Yes Did Clarissa commit the crime basing on this awareness? No Was the victim a client of Clarissa? No, see above
Clarissa was discovered within days...did the ink produced a chemical phenomenon with the dead body at the time? No
Did the dead body smell at that time? No If so, could someone who enter the shop be aware of the bad smell? If so, was it thanks t Faith's ink?
Was the someone dirtied by Faith's hands dirtied on the face? On the hands? This Other part of the body? Directly on the skin? On his/her clothes? Relevant? Yes
Was Clarissa dirtied by Faith's ink? No If so, did it direct the suspects on her? Because the ink was present also somewhere in the nearby of the body? On the body? In the mouth of the body? On the weapon with which the body was killed? No to these
...are there connections between the ink and the blood of the victim? (strange question) Only the color of the ink (red), which is somewhat relevant

Stupid guesses--> guess 1) did Faith accidentally dirtied the expensive dress of one of the two present in Clarissa's place of work and this caused a quarrel so they decided to call the police? guess 2) did the fact that Faith dirtied someone cause something to happen that make them call the police? I know the answer is no because you said that Clarissa was arrested within few days, but I'll try. Neither

So, Faith was a paying customer of Clarissa's for a "service"? Yes (Those quotes are so throwing me off. I want to ask if the Goods and Services Tax department would outright call this an actual service. After all, if you're not paying for goods, then you're paying for a service?) I think a service, but I'm not sure

Shall we call the relevant people Alice and Bob? And the victim Zoe? Sounds good

Which of these were colleagues of Clarissa? Bob & Zoe Other paying customers like Faith? Alice Passers-by? None of them
Accomplices of Clarissa? None, but with a YOPE attached to Zoe Knew of the death? All of them (except Zoe, because she was dead) Knew it was murder? All of them (see previous) Knew who the murderer was? None of them
Of legal professions (policemen, detectives)? None of them Other relevant relationships (families, friends, lovers)? None of them

Did Faith get inked on purpose? Yes (If yes, whose purpose? A? B? C? F? Z?) Bob's By accident?
Was this inking part of the "service"? Yes Who knew of the inking? Everyone but Alice Was this knowledge relevant? A little
Was this inking due to needing to apply a fingerprint to a document? No

Did the ink not yet being dry clue someone in to the existence of a period of time where Clarissa's actions were unaccounted for? YES, good guess! Or clue someone in to a different or suspicious chronology of events from what he/she was currently led to believe? See previous

The murder took place in this location? Yes Was the body relevantly moved around? No

Can we establish a chronology of these events? Edited to give the correct chronology, and note that there may be FAs depending on what you mean by "the place":
- Zoe entering the place
- Faith entering the place (Which place?)
- Faith being inked
- Faith entering the place (Again, which place?)
- Faith leaving an ink mark (did she?)
- Zoe being killed
- Faith leaving the place
Balin
 
Posts: 6103
Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 11:12 pm
Location: Connecticut, USA

Re: [Balin] Sync or swim

Postby biograd » Sun Jul 02, 2017 4:00 pm

Did Faith shake the hand of the other HAF (can we call her Liz?)?

Is this at all along the lines of what happened:
--Faith entered Clarissa's workplace to receive some kind of service?
--The service involved placing her hand on an ink pad, then touching something else?
--However, Clarissa was "busy" (in quotes because she wasn't, she actually had criminal intent), and went into a back room/somewhere else out of sight of the customers, before Faith could touch the "something else" and deposit the ink where it was "supposed" to go?
--During her absence, she killed Zoe?
--While waiting for Clarissa to return, Faith shook hands with the other HAF? forgetting that she still had ink on hers from the pad?
--This proved that the progress of the service had been interrupted partway through?
biograd
 
Posts: 511
Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2014 11:25 am

Re: [Balin] Sync or swim

Postby Earnest » Mon Jul 03, 2017 7:55 am

were the light turned off at the time of the murder? Religion service...of which religion? List of religions (can I?).Is the service somehow related to marriages?To funerals? Is the entire service provided in the place of work where it is requested or in another place later on? Does the service mainly deal with organizing something? Pray? Is the blood of Christ involved? Is Clarissa a medium (someone who pretend to talk with death people)? A fortune-teller? A preacher? Are beliefs (I mean the exploitation of other's beliefs) somehow involved? Whose hands did F dirtied ? A? B? C? Z? A, right?Again, on purpose? Was there a rite, a prayer going on?

Were them in circle? Did they hold their hands?Were the others' hands dirty except Clarissa's ones? Is the different timing in drying of blood and ink relevant? I mean...I am thinking of Clarissa's hands dirtied by blood and others' hands dirtied by ink... If so did they all hold their hands? Or just some of them?...was the death of Zoe part of a rite? If so, did the rite require someone to disappear? Someone to be sacrificed? Is the weapon with which Zoe was murdered relevantly present? Is a common weapon like a gun? A knife? Or something unusual?
Earnest
 
Posts: 831
Joined: Tue May 30, 2017 7:52 am

Re: [Balin] Sync or swim

Postby SurfingPikachu » Mon Jul 03, 2017 2:54 pm

Was the ink mistakeable for blood? Mistaken for blood? By A? B? C? F? Z?

How many relevant sub-locations were there, excluding the washroom? Two? Three? More? Many?
In the chronology I meant the workplace in general. Maybe we can go into more details after sub-locations are revealed?

Was Alice serviced before Faith? At the same time? Scheduled to be after?

Were Bob, Clarissa, and Zoe working in the same role? Different roles? Similar roles? Any superior-subordinate relationships? Any souring relationship relevant? Any of them working front desk? Janitor?

This is a religious service? Religion-related?

Did anyone sense anything amiss before Zoe was killed? Who discovered or "discovered" the death first? Did Clarissa have a chance to destroy any evidence? *AHEM* Anyone else unwittingly destroyed evidence? Did the death look like murder?

Zoe killed by stabbing? Blunt force? Rube Goldberg contraption? Others? Method relevant?

Time of day relevant?
SurfingPikachu
 
Posts: 276
Joined: Fri Jun 09, 2017 3:44 pm

Re: [Balin] Sync or swim

Postby Balin » Tue Jul 04, 2017 6:56 pm

Was the ink mistakeable for blood? Yes Mistaken for blood? Yes By A? B? C? F? Z? By investigators

How many relevant sub-locations were there, excluding the washroom? Two? Three? More? Four Many?
In the chronology I meant the workplace in general. Maybe we can go into more details after sub-locations are revealed? Okay

Was Alice serviced before Faith? At the same time? This Scheduled to be after?

Were Bob, Clarissa, and Zoe working in the same role? Yes Different roles? Similar roles? Any superior-subordinate relationships? No Any souring relationship relevant? Yes, between Clarissa and Zoe Any of them working front desk? Janitor? None of them

This is a religious service? No Religion-related? Tangentially

Did anyone sense anything amiss before Zoe was killed? No Who discovered or "discovered" the death first? Alice Did Clarissa have a chance to destroy any evidence? Yes *AHEM* Anyone else unwittingly destroyed evidence? No Did the death look like murder? Yes

Zoe killed by stabbing? ThisBlunt force? Rube Goldberg contraption? Others? Method relevant?

Time of day relevant? No

were the light turned off at the time of the murder? Yes Religion service... Not exactly of which religion? Spiritualism List of religions (can I?). Sure, see below
Is the service somehow related to marriages?To funerals? Neither
Is the entire service provided in the place of work where it is requested or in another place later on? The former
Does the service mainly deal with organizing something? Pray? Is the blood of Christ involved? No to all
Is Clarissa a medium (someone who pretend to talk with death people)? A fortune-teller? YES, and so are Bob and Zoe A preacher? Are beliefs (I mean the exploitation of other's beliefs) somehow involved? To Clarissa's motive Whose hands did F dirtied ? A? B? C? Z? A, right? Alice's only Again, on purpose? No! Was there a rite, a prayer going on? Rites are OTRT

Were them in circle? No Did they hold their hands? Yes Were the others' hands dirty except Clarissa's ones? No, only Faith's and Alice's Is the different timing in drying of blood and ink relevant? No I mean...I am thinking of Clarissa's hands dirtied by blood and others' hands dirtied by ink... Clarissa's hands were cleaned
If so did they all hold their hands? Or just some of them? Only Alice and Faith, during the course of the puzzle
...was the death of Zoe part of a rite? No/Yope If so, did the rite require someone to disappear? No Someone to be sacrificed? Not "sacrificed"
Is the weapon with which Zoe was murdered relevantly present? Yes Is a common weapon like a gun? A knife? Or something unusual? It's a scythe which Zoe used as part of her fortune-telling

Did Faith shake the hand of the other HAF No (can we call her Liz?)? I would, except she's already been dubbed Alice

Is this at all along the lines of what happened:
--Faith entered Clarissa's workplace to receive some kind of service? Yes
--The service involved placing her hand on an ink pad Not quite then touching something else? No
--However, Clarissa was "busy" (in quotes because she wasn't, she actually had criminal intent), and went into a back room/somewhere else out of sight of the customers, Yes before Faith could touch the "something else" and deposit the ink where it was "supposed" to go? No
--During her absence, she killed Zoe? Yes
--While waiting for Clarissa to return No Faith shook hands with the other HAF? Well, touched her hand, but Yes forgetting that she still had ink on hers from the pad? Yes
--This proved that the progress of the service had been interrupted partway through? Almost - very good deduction!
Balin
 
Posts: 6103
Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 11:12 pm
Location: Connecticut, USA

Re: [Balin] Sync or swim

Postby Earnest » Tue Jul 04, 2017 8:14 pm

So...were Clarissa present, Alice's hands would have been clean?
Did Clarissa relevantly use cards in fortune telling?
Earnest
 
Posts: 831
Joined: Tue May 30, 2017 7:52 am

Re: [Balin] Sync or swim

Postby SurfingPikachu » Wed Jul 05, 2017 2:12 pm

Ok, so, B, C, Z were fortune-tellers? (Are genders relevant in this puzzle?)
B serviced A? And C serviced F? (Or B-F and C-A?) At the same time? Z was not servicing anyone at that time?
I'm a little confused by previous answers that the inking was only B's purpose, and that A did not know of the inking, despite getting her hands second-hand-inked by F (surely a wet sensation could be felt).

These fortune-tellings were conducted with fortune-teller and customer 1-to-1 alone in a room or some other delineated location?
During the C?-F fortune telling, after (or before?) F was inked (by C?), C slipped away to kill Z? While F second-hand-inked A? In the presence of B? A then discovered Z? Did A touch or leave any ink on Z?

Speaking of which, if I had any blade of my choosing and the drop on someone, I still wouldn't give myself good odds of killing nearly soundlessly.
Is sound at all relevant in this puzzle?
SurfingPikachu
 
Posts: 276
Joined: Fri Jun 09, 2017 3:44 pm

Re: [Balin] Sync or swim

Postby Balin » Thu Jul 06, 2017 12:11 pm

So...were Clarissa present, Alice's hands would have been clean? No/YOPE.

I realize I mislead with an earlier answer: no fortune-telling session was interrupted until the body was discovered.


Did Clarissa relevantly use cards in fortune telling? No

Ok, so, B, C, Z were fortune-tellers? Yes (Are genders relevant in this puzzle?) No
B serviced A? No And C serviced F? Yes (Or B-F and C-A?) At the same time? Z was not servicing anyone at that time? At the time of the killing, Zoe was servicing Alice, Clarissa was servicing Faith, and Bob was servicing someone else who isn't relevant to the puzzle.
I'm a little confused by previous answers that the inking was only B's purpose, and that A did not know of the inking, despite getting her hands second-hand-inked by F (surely a wet sensation could be felt). Possibly, but there is a reason she would not have consciously noticed a wet sensation. Also, Bob never told Alice's fortune so never directly inked her hand.

These fortune-tellings were conducted with fortune-teller and customer 1-to-1 alone in a room Yes or some other delineated location?
During the C?-F fortune telling, after (or before?) F was inked (by C?), After Faith was inked by Bob C slipped away to kill Z? Yes While F second-hand-inked A? Yes In the presence of B? No A then discovered Z? Yes Did A touch or leave any ink on Z? No

Speaking of which, if I had any blade of my choosing and the drop on someone, I still wouldn't give myself good odds of killing nearly soundlessly. See below
Is sound at all relevant in this puzzle? Only in these aspects: Clarissa's customers are blindfolded and wear headphones, and Zoe's customers chant loudly during their session.
Balin
 
Posts: 6103
Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 11:12 pm
Location: Connecticut, USA

Re: [Balin] Sync or swim

Postby Earnest » Thu Jul 06, 2017 12:42 pm

is the specific type of fortune telling relevant? is it palms reading?
If so, was Clarissa reading F's palm which was dirtied by ink? was the ink part of the fortune telling? Was Clarissa supposed to slip away while reading a client's hand?I mean...as part of the fortune telling do C Z and B usually exchange roles/clients? Did Z not suspect anything because of this? Or she simply didn't notice it because the lights were turned off?

Was ink on client's hands supposed to go away after the fortune telling?
Earnest
 
Posts: 831
Joined: Tue May 30, 2017 7:52 am

Re: [Balin] Sync or swim

Postby SurfingPikachu » Thu Jul 06, 2017 3:14 pm

The gist I'm getting is that B C Z told fortunes in different ways? Do customers typically choose one of B C Z or do they typically have their fortunes told by all three? B C Z each have a room which they are "stationed" in?

The number of moving parts in this puzzle feels a little overwhelming...

Can we establish a chronology of these events or be told that they didn't happen?

F enters a room RB? Which B is in?
B serves and inks F?
F leaves room RB?

F enters a room RC? Which C is in?
C serves F?

A enters a room RZ? Which Z is in?
Z serves A?

Z leaves room RZ? Into room RR?
C leaves room RC? Into room RR?
C kills Z? In room RR?

C returns to room RC? Continues to serve F?
A looks for Z? A enters room RR and finds Z? A sounds the alarm?
SurfingPikachu
 
Posts: 276
Joined: Fri Jun 09, 2017 3:44 pm

Re: [Balin] Sync or swim

Postby Balin » Fri Jul 07, 2017 9:48 am

is the specific type of fortune telling relevant? Yes is it palms reading? Bob's is; see below
If so, was Clarissa reading F's palm which was dirtied by ink? No was the ink part of the fortune telling? Part of Bob's - Bob is germophobic, so he takes an ink print of customers' palms in order to do the reading Was Clarissa supposed to slip away while reading a client's hand? ...Yesish, explore I mean...as part of the fortune telling do C Z and B usually exchange roles/clients? No Did Z not suspect anything because of this? No Or she simply didn't notice it because the lights were turned off? Yes

Was ink on client's hands supposed to go away after the fortune telling? Customers would typically wash it off

The gist I'm getting is that B C Z told fortunes in different ways? Yes Do customers typically choose one of B C Z or do they typically have their fortunes told by all three? There are more irrelevant fortune tellers; customers have their fortunes told by three (not always B/C/Z). B C Z each have a room which they are "stationed" in? Yes

The number of moving parts in this puzzle feels a little overwhelming... You're filling a lot of them in; keep it up!

Can we establish a chronology of these events or be told that they didn't happen?

F enters a room RB? Which B is in?
B serves and inks F?
F leaves room RB? Right

F enters a room RC? Which C is in?
C serves F? Also right

A enters a room RZ? Which Z is in?
Z serves A? Also right; this happens simultaneously with the above (F entering C's room; C serving F)

Z leaves room RZ? No Into room RR?
C leaves room RC? Into room RR? Yes (and there is a room RR, a back room)
C kills Z? Yes In room RR? No

C returns to room RC? Yes Continues to serve F? NO, explore!
A looks for Z? Yes A enters room RR No and finds Z? Yes A sounds the alarm? Yes (good chronology!)
Balin
 
Posts: 6103
Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 11:12 pm
Location: Connecticut, USA

Re: [Balin] Sync or swim

Postby Earnest » Fri Jul 07, 2017 3:43 pm

Cristal balls relevant? Did costumers change room in order to have fortube told in different ways? Sorry but I need a clarification...so Did F leave B room and enter C room? After C has committed the crime? Or "during"? I mean...did C go away while F was inside her room to have the fortune told?
Or F was just served by B and Clarissa went away because exploiting the darkness her role was to make the customers feel some "sensations" (like touch them whenever her assistant tell a relevant sentence or sonwthi g like that)?
Did F lean on sonethi g? Touched Clarissa's hand? Does C uses water in her fortune telling? Are hands/hands washing involved in her fortune telling? Did she enter Bob's room when F was in inside?

Did C absence provoke F hands not to be cleaner? If C was immobile in her room, would F hands be cleaner than they were? Because of a natural process of ink's drying?
Earnest
 
Posts: 831
Joined: Tue May 30, 2017 7:52 am

Re: [Balin] Sync or swim

Postby SurfingPikachu » Sat Jul 08, 2017 5:30 am

Do rooms RB, RC, RZ connect to one another? Or does one have to go through RR to go from one to another?

Balin wrote:Z leaves room RZ? No Into room RR?
C leaves room RC? Into room RR? Yes (and there is a room RR, a back room)
C kills Z? Yes In room RR? No

Did C enter room RZ? By this route: RC to RR to RZ? And killed Z in RZ?

Balin wrote:C returns to room RC? Yes Continues to serve F? NO, explore!

C returns to room RC by going through room RR? When C returns to room RC, was F not there anymore? If so, had F gone to room RZ? If so, did F need to go through room RR? If so, would F have met C?

Balin wrote:A looks for Z? Yes A enters room RR No and finds Z? Yes A sounds the alarm? Yes (good chronology!)

A found Z in room RZ? When this happened, was F in room RZ? Not in room RC?
SurfingPikachu
 
Posts: 276
Joined: Fri Jun 09, 2017 3:44 pm

Re: [Balin] Sync or swim

Postby Balin » Sun Jul 09, 2017 12:16 am

Cristal balls relevant? No Did customers change room in order to have fortune told in different ways? Yes Sorry but I need a clarification...so Did F leave B room and enter C room? Yes After C has committed the crime? No Or "during"? No I mean...did C go away while F was inside her room to have the fortune told? Yes
Or F was just served by B and Clarissa went away because exploiting the darkness her role was to make the customers feel some "sensations" (like touch them whenever her assistant tell a relevant sentence or sonwthi g like that)? No, but the "sensations" question is somewhat OTRT
Did F lean on something? No Touched Clarissa's hand? No BUT!... Does C uses water in her fortune telling? No Are hands/hands washing involved in her fortune telling? Yes to hands, No to washing Did she enter Bob's room when F was in inside? No

Did C absence provoke F hands not to be cleaner? No If C was immobile in her room, would F hands be cleaner than they were? No/b] Because of a natural process of ink's drying?

Do rooms RB, RC, RZ connect to one another? [b]No
Or does one have to go through RR to go from one to another? Through RR, or into a central lobby that is irrelevant to the murder method

Did C enter room RZ? By this route: RC to RR to RZ? And killed Z in RZ? Yes to all

C returns to room RC by going through room RR? Yes When C returns to room RC, was F not there anymore? No, Faith was still there If so, had F gone to room RZ? If so, did F need to go through room RR? If so, would F have met C?

A found Z in room RZ? Yes When this happened, was F in room RZ? Not in room RC? No, she was in RC
Balin
 
Posts: 6103
Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 11:12 pm
Location: Connecticut, USA

Re: [Balin] Sync or swim

Postby SurfingPikachu » Sun Jul 09, 2017 3:23 am

Updated chronology:

F enters RB which B is in, B serves and inks F, F leaves RB

F enters RC which C is in, C serves F [F1]
A enters RZ which Z is in, Z serves A
[T1]
C goes from RC to RR to RZ, which Z is in, and kills Z
C goes from RZ to RR to RC, which F is in, but does not continue to serve F [F2]
In RZ, A finds Z and sounds the alarm
[T2]

[F1]: F was blindfolded and wearing headphones here?
[F2]: F was still blindfolded and wearing headphones here?
Headphones to block out external sound? Headphones to play music, speech, or other sound?
Is this an audiosensory thing? Removing external stimulus thing?

[T1]: From a previous answer, it seems to be at around this time that F left an ink mark on A? While blindfolded and wearing headphones?
Did C know this? Was it under C's instruction or supervision?
Did F enter RZ to do so? Did A enter RC at this time? Or at any other time?

[T2]: Anything significant happened here or afterwards?
SurfingPikachu
 
Posts: 276
Joined: Fri Jun 09, 2017 3:44 pm

Re: [Balin] Sync or swim

Postby Earnest » Sun Jul 09, 2017 8:04 am

Surfing, sorry if I will repeat some of your questions but I need to rush so I don't have time to read them all. Sorry in advance...

Are hands/hands washing involved in her fortune telling? Yes to hands -> C hands or F hands are mostly involved? Do their hands relevant touch during the fortune telling? If so, is it something like they first touch on the back and then on the palms? Or C palms on F back hands and then F palms on C back hands? Would the fortune telling be completed, would C have her hands dirtied by ink? Would Z?

Did F leave B room and enter C room? Yes -> so...did C told F the fortune or did she leave before? In that case, there was silence in the room because nobody but F was present right? Or did someone (B? Z?) entered the room in C's place?If it was Bob, being him germaphobic, was him supposed to put other ink on client's hands that usually wash their hands when exit his room? I mean...I imagine a procedure like: C exit her room and B takes her place usually. Than...clients usually wash their hands going away from Bob's room, so that he is forced somehow to put in or another substance on clients' hands when he found himself in C's room. In F's case, however, he didn't because she didn't clean up her hands going away from his room, so that when she exited C's room she had the old dried ink on her hands, while she was supposed to have the new ink. This proved that B was present in C's room while the murder was committed. Ok...I know maybe it's all completely wrong but I'll try...because I am thinking of how C could have been discovered and there are maybe three ways: or there are evidences of the murder, or there are evidences that B was in another room and couldn't have committed the crime, or someone saw C while committing the crime/Bob who the crime was committed by C, right?

Touched Clarissa's hand? No BUT!...-> did F touch C at all? was the ink relevantly fresh? Should F touch C hands according to the "usual procedure"? Bob's hands? Zoe's hands? (in those latter cases I suppose that one of the two was supposed to enter C room during the fortune telling...is that so?) Should C touch something/someone and thus make it dirtier through ink according to the fortune telling?
Earnest
 
Posts: 831
Joined: Tue May 30, 2017 7:52 am

Re: [Balin] Sync or swim

Postby Balin » Wed Jul 12, 2017 2:13 am

Updated chronology:

F enters RB which B is in, B serves and inks F, F leaves RB

F enters RC which C is in, C serves F [F1]
A enters RZ which Z is in, Z serves A
[T1]
C goes from RC to RR to RZ, which Z is in, and kills Z
C goes from RZ to RR to RC, which F is in, but does not continue to serve F [F2]
In RZ, A finds Z and sounds the alarm
[T2]

That is correct

[F1]: F was blindfolded and wearing headphones here? Yes
[F2]: F was still blindfolded and wearing headphones here? Yes, but they were removed shortly after C's re-entrance
Headphones to block out external sound? Headphones to play music, speech, or other sound? Both (loud music)
Is this an audiosensory thing? Removing external stimulus thing? This

[T1]: From a previous answer, it seems to be at around this time that F left an ink mark on A? While blindfolded and wearing headphones? Right
Did C know this? No Was it under C's instruction or supervision? But Yes!
Did F enter RZ to do so? No Did A enter RC at this time? No but... Or at any other time? No

[T2]: Anything significant happened here or afterwards? No

Surfing, sorry if I will repeat some of your questions but I need to rush so I don't have time to read them all. Sorry in advance...

Are hands/hands washing involved in her fortune telling? Yes to hands -> C hands or F hands are mostly involved? Faith's Do their hands relevant touch during the fortune telling? No BUT... If so, is it something like they first touch on the back and then on the palms? Or C palms on F back hands and then F palms on C back hands? Faith's hands are the only ones that hold anything Would the fortune telling be completed, would C have her hands dirtied by ink? Would Z? Neither

Did F leave B room and enter C room? Yes -> so...did C told F the fortune or did she leave before? She did tell Faith her fortune. Faith had her fortune told by Bob (in Bob's room), went into the lobby, then went to have Clarissa tell her fortune (in Clarissa's room) In that case, there was silence in the room because nobody but F was present right? Yes, but note the headphones Or did someone (B? Z?) entered the room in C's place? YOPE! (neither B nor Z though) If it was Bob, being him germaphobic, was him supposed to put other ink on client's hands that usually wash their hands when exit his room? Yes
I mean...I imagine a procedure like: C exit her room and B takes her place usually. Than...clients usually wash their hands going away from Bob's room, so that he is forced somehow to put in or another substance on clients' hands when he found himself in C's room. In F's case, however, he didn't because she didn't clean up her hands going away from his room, so that when she exited C's room she had the old dried ink on her hands, while she was supposed to have the new ink. This proved that B was present in C's room while the murder was committed. Ok...I know maybe it's all completely wrong but I'll try... Not correct, but a clever thought
because I am thinking of how C could have been discovered and there are maybe three ways: or there are evidences of the murder, or there are evidences that B was in another room and couldn't have committed the crime, or someone saw C while committing the crime/Bob who the crime was committed by C, right? It's Ace Attorney, which means someone else was arrested and the attorney figures out the truth at the trial

Touched Clarissa's hand? No BUT!...-> did F touch C at all? No (same BUT) was the ink relevantly fresh? Yes Should F touch C hands according to the "usual procedure"? Same BUT Bob's hands? No Zoe's hands?No (in those latter cases I suppose that one of the two was supposed to enter C room during the fortune telling...is that so?) YOPE! But not them Should C touch something/someone and thus make it dirtier through ink according to the fortune telling? No
Balin
 
Posts: 6103
Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 11:12 pm
Location: Connecticut, USA

Re: [Balin] Sync or swim

Postby Earnest » Wed Jul 12, 2017 7:15 am

so did A enter C room? Or another one? So A was supposed to be served by Z? A lived Z's room? Was she supposed to go into Bob's room? Into C's room? Ok...strange question...if it was A to enter C room, did she enter the room entirely or just with an arm for instance? I am thinking of the fact that Z and C rooms were near. As part of the procedure Z tell the client to put an arm "inside" the curtain dividing the two rooms and C does the same with her client. The two touch each other thinking of a magic. In doing so, F dirtied 's hands of ink, so that following the reasoning below A could be classified as innocent as well...something like that?

Did F touch the weapon with which C killed Z? Something like the weapon was covered by F's ink, C used the weapon so that the ink dry only partially on the weapon and C hands were covered by ink? So F was innocent otherwise the weapon should be covered by ink and we need to discover the reason why A and B were innocent?
Earnest
 
Posts: 831
Joined: Tue May 30, 2017 7:52 am

Re: [Balin] Sync or swim

Postby Balin » Wed Jul 12, 2017 2:05 pm

Ok...strange question...if it was A to enter C room, did she enter the room entirely No... or just with an arm for instance? ...YES!

I am thinking of the fact that Z and C rooms were near. As part of the procedure Z tell the client to put an arm "inside" the curtain dividing the two rooms and C does the same with her client. The two touch each other thinking of a magic. In doing so, F dirtied 's hands of ink, so that following the reasoning below A could be classified as innocent as well...something like that? Close enough for me to call it a

****SPOILER**** (long explanation ahead)

Bob, Clarissa, and Zoe are all fortune tellers who work at the same location but in separate rooms, and they each have a different method of telling fortunes:
-Bob reads palms, but since he is a germophobe, he takes a print of customers' hands with red ink and reads the print instead of the actual palm.
-Clarissa has customers sit at a table, wear a blindfold and headphones to block outside sounds, and grab her hand in order to focus fully on the spirit she claims to be communicating with.
-Zoe's clients must spin in a circle in a dark room, then stick their hand through a hole in the wall while chanting loudly, where the oracle Zoe claims to receive her fortunes from will grab her hand, and after a period of time, insert a paper slip with a fortune into that hand.

Actually, Clarissa and Zoe have been committing fraud. The hole Zoe shows her customers (which leads into the back room) is not the hole they reach through. That hole leads into Clarissa's room, and Clarissa's client is the one who actually grabs the hand of Zoe's client. Since Clarissa's client is deprived of sight and hearing during the session, Clarissa is free to look at their personal information (all personal items are placed in a safe before the session) and pass it to Zoe via the paper fortune slips, who uses that information to give more accurate fortunes and bring more customers.

After a falling-out, Clarissa decided to use this trick to commit murder. At the time, Alice was Zoe's client and Faith was Clarissa's client. When Faith was grabbing Alice's hand, Clarissa left her room and entered Zoe's via the back room, unlocking the door through the "show" hole in the wall. She dragged Zoe behind a curtain and killed her with a scythe Zoe hung on her wall. Since Alice was chanting loudly, she didn't hear any noises. Clarissa then went back into her own room and gave Alice a fortune slip saying that a spirit of death had possessed her body, then finished her session with Faith after Alice withdrew her arm. When Alice raised the alarm and everyone rushed into Zoe's room, Clarissa destroyed the wall with the second hole to conceal the evidence.

Initially, since it was a locked room, Alice believed she had truly been possessed by the death spirit, and the red stain on Alice's hand was assumed to be blood, Alice was arrested and put on trial. But at the trial, her attorney realized that since Faith had had her fortune told by Bob immediately before Clarissa, and had not had time to go to the bathroom to wash her hands, the stain on Alice's hand must have been the red ink from Faith's hand. From there, he deduced the entire scheme, and Clarissa confessed.

This was a very complicated scenario from a very short statement - well done Earnest, SurfingPikachu, and everyone else who worked it out!
Balin
 
Posts: 6103
Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 11:12 pm
Location: Connecticut, USA

Re: [Balin] Sync or swim (*UNFORTUNATE*)

Postby Earnest » Wed Jul 12, 2017 2:10 pm

Thank you Balin! Beautiful puzzle as always!
Earnest
 
Posts: 831
Joined: Tue May 30, 2017 7:52 am

Re: [Balin] Sync or swim (*UNFORTUNATE*)

Postby SurfingPikachu » Thu Jul 13, 2017 3:35 pm

Some puzzles I go "Hmm, I'm not sure what else I'm supposed to be figuring out". This one I might have estimated as 30% solved, when suddenly BAM! :lol: Thanks for the puzzle!
SurfingPikachu
 
Posts: 276
Joined: Fri Jun 09, 2017 3:44 pm


Return to Solved Lateral Thinking Puzzles

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 3 guests