[SurfingPikachu] I don't need to outrun the bear

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[SurfingPikachu] I don't need to outrun the bear

Postby SurfingPikachu » Sat Jul 15, 2017 1:36 pm

The student looked through the exam paper before him. Indeed, he knew nothing about the subject, not having attended a single lecture all semester, nor opened the textbook even once. However, he answered all the questions anyway, and scored better than three-quarters of his classmates. What happened?
Last edited by SurfingPikachu on Sat Jul 22, 2017 2:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [SurfingPikachu] I don't need to outrun the bear

Postby Balin » Sat Jul 15, 2017 3:08 pm

By "before him," do you mean he looked at the exam in front of him? Or that he looked at a previous exam? (And repeated the answers from that?)
Is the student H/A/M?
Is the student in high school? University?
Did he answer the questions correctly?
Did he actually score well in the exam? Or did he and three-quarters of his classmates score horribly?
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Re: [SurfingPikachu] I don't need to outrun the bear

Postby SurfingPikachu » Sat Jul 15, 2017 3:39 pm

Balin

By "before him," do you mean he looked at the exam in front of him? This Or that he looked at a previous exam? No (And repeated the answers from that?) No
Is the student H/A/M? Yes
Is the student in high school? University? This
Did he answer the questions correctly? Many of them yes, some no
Did he actually score well in the exam? Decently Or did he and three-quarters of his classmates score horribly? No, the scores were normally distributed
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Re: [SurfingPikachu] I don't need to outrun the bear

Postby Balin » Sat Jul 15, 2017 3:45 pm

Had the student taken this class before? Had he been taught by this professor before?
Is the class in a lecture hall or classroom? Is it online?
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Re: [SurfingPikachu] I don't need to outrun the bear

Postby Earnest » Sat Jul 15, 2017 4:57 pm

Did he cheat? Relevant which was the subject? Did he have the possibility of consulting books? Other sources of info (devices,pc,something written on a wall...). Relevant which were the questions? Was his life-experiences/his personal life enabled him to answer better than his classmates? Relevant how many people were in the classroom?
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Re: [SurfingPikachu] I don't need to outrun the bear

Postby SurfingPikachu » Sun Jul 16, 2017 1:42 am

Balin

Had the student taken this class before? No Had he been taught by this professor before? No
Is the class and exam in a lecture hall or classroom? This Is it online? No

Earnest

Did he cheat? No! Relevant which was the subject? Did he have the possibility of consulting books? Other sources of info (devices,pc,something written on a wall...). Relevant which were the questions? Was his life-experiences/his personal life enabled him to answer better than his classmates? Relevant how many people were in the classroom? No to rest
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Re: [SurfingPikachu] I don't need to outrun the bear

Postby Earnest » Sun Jul 16, 2017 7:37 am

Did he need to put crosses? Did he do the test randomly? Without thinking?....he didn't follow the lectures....did he decide not to follow the lectures? If so, because he was sure to pass the test? Was it an oral exam? A written one? Relevant?
Other people relevant? He did not cheat...so was him allow to do something relevant? E.g. he was allowed to go to the bathroom during the exam and accidentally see something that suggested him the answer?

So...he was alone, relevantly surrounded just by other students and Profs in front of the exam, without talking nor relevantly watching out of the window or away from the exam paper and he did the exam alone without cheating? Dd he know something about the subject? If not, did he know somenthing about the questions? Did he effectively understand what he was writing? I mean...memory is not involved right? When he answered the questions he answered them because he effectively knew the answer right?
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Re: [SurfingPikachu] I don't need to outrun the bear

Postby GalFisk » Sun Jul 16, 2017 9:16 am

Were the questions yes/no? Multiple choice? Free text answers? Answers requiring a show of math or other scientific understanding?
Patterns relevant in answering? Did he score especially well? Did the others do especially poorly?
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Re: [SurfingPikachu] I don't need to outrun the bear

Postby SurfingPikachu » Sun Jul 16, 2017 9:51 am

Earnest

Did he need to put crosses? Not sure what this means, but the questions were in multiple-choice format Did he do the test randomly? No Without thinking? No ....he didn't follow the lectures....did he decide not to follow the lectures? Yes, irr If so, because he was sure to pass the test? No Was it an oral exam? A written one? This Relevant? Yes
Other people relevant? No He did not cheat...so was him allow to do something relevant? E.g. he was allowed to go to the bathroom during the exam and accidentally see something that suggested him the answer? No

So...he was alone, relevantly surrounded just by other students and Profs in front of the exam, without talking nor relevantly watching out of the window or away from the exam paper and he did the exam alone without cheating? Yes Dd he know something about the subject? No If not, did he know somenthing about the questions? Not before the exam. He would certainly see them during the exam. Did he effectively understand what he was writing? Yope I mean...memory is not involved right? No memorisation involved When he answered the questions he answered them because he effectively knew the answer right? No, he didn't know if he was answering correctly

GalFisk

Were the questions yes/no? No Multiple choice? This Free text answers? No Answers requiring a show of math or other scientific understanding? Possibly
Patterns relevant in answering? Yes! Did he score especially well? Decently Did the others do especially poorly? No, the scores were normally distributed


*** RECAP ***
The student did not know the subject material, nor the exam questions beforehand. He did not look up previous exam questions, and in any case those would be different. He had not taken this class before nor been taught by this professor before. Exact subject and questions irrelevant.
The classes and exam took place physically in a university, and not online. The exam was written and not oral. The questions were in multiple-choice format. Patterns are relevant.
The student did not cheat nor unwittingly gain access to the answers. He did not fill in the answers randomly, but did so with thought. He did not know if he was answering correctly. But it turned out that he did answer many of the questions correctly, though some of them wrongly, and he scored decently. His classmates' scores were normally distributed.

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Re: [SurfingPikachu] I don't need to outrun the bear

Postby Earnest » Sun Jul 16, 2017 12:07 pm

so he was on the upper tail of the normal distribution right? Not on the middle?I mean he scored a little better than the average?...

multiple-choice test...well...was there the possibility of losing points if the answer was incorrect? did he, then, leave some answers blank while his classmates tried to answer and answered wrongly losing points? is it possible to get a negative total score?
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Re: [SurfingPikachu] I don't need to outrun the bear

Postby SurfingPikachu » Sun Jul 16, 2017 1:44 pm

Earnest

so he was on the upper tail of the normal distribution right? Not on the middle?I mean he scored a little better than the average?... Yes to all

multiple-choice test...well...was there the possibility of losing points if the answer was incorrect? did he, then, leave some answers blank while his classmates tried to answer and answered wrongly losing points? is it possible to get a negative total score? No to all, but good guess!
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Re: [SurfingPikachu] I don't need to outrun the bear

Postby Earnest » Sun Jul 16, 2017 8:35 pm

Patterns are relevant.--> sorry for my ignorance but in which sense? That answering a question before another one was compulsory ? If s, was there a sort of timing for example to turn page ?(e.g. everybody have n minutes/hours to do the first page, then all had to turn to the second page and so on?) Is the total duration of the exam relevant? Was he able o exploit something that others didn't notice?
Did he do something more in the test that the other wasn't able to do because of a bad strategy in compiling the test? Or was it all because of him having more knowledges than others?

Relevant how the score was determined? Or can we assume one point for each correct answer? Did he relevantly insert all his name/surname correctly in the test?Relevant how the results were published?...I was thinking maybe to him having a twin or him having an homonym...

In answering correctly did he simply exploit his knowledges on the subject? his knowledges on the questions? Could it work with any multiple choice test? Did he understood better some instruction? Had any answer one or more than one possibilities? If so, was the test completely objective?(I mean wee there e.g. 2 answers for each choice which were objectively correct without possibilities of replications)

Did the student want to proof a point? Or just to pass the test? Is it a famous event related to someone who later became famous?
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Re: [SurfingPikachu] I don't need to outrun the bear

Postby SurfingPikachu » Mon Jul 17, 2017 1:31 pm

Earnest

Patterns are relevant.--> sorry for my ignorance but in which sense? That's for you to figure out! That answering a question before another one was compulsory ? No If s, was there a sort of timing for example to turn page ?(e.g. everybody have n minutes/hours to do the first page, then all had to turn to the second page and so on?) No Is the total duration of the exam relevant? No Was he able o exploit something that others didn't notice? Yes!
Did he do something more in the test that the other wasn't able to do because of a bad strategy in compiling the test? Yes! Or was it all because of him having more knowledges than others? No

Relevant how the score was determined? A little Or can we assume one point for each correct answer? This Did he relevantly insert all his name/surname correctly in the test? No one had problems there Relevant how the results were published?...I was thinking maybe to him having a twin or him having an homonym... No

In answering correctly did he simply exploit his knowledges on the subject? No his knowledges on the questions? No Could it work with any multiple choice test? Any? No Did he understood better some instruction? No Had any answer one or more than one possibilities? Depends on what you mean, possibly yes! If so, was the test completely objective?(I mean wee there e.g. 2 answers for each choice which were objectively correct without possibilities of replications) Don't understand what you're asking

Did the student want to proof a point? No Or just to pass the test? Yes Is it a famous event related to someone who later became famous? No
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Re: [SurfingPikachu] I don't need to outrun the bear

Postby Earnest » Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:06 pm

So did he concentrate the efforts in certain types of questions? Like he noticed that each exercise counted for a certain scoring while the others didn't so he prioritized certain questions and not other questions?

Did he effectively did an exercise that others weren't able to reach because they did not have enough time? Is the structure of the test relevant? If so, was all multiple choice? Rules of the test: multiple choice:, one point for each correct answer, more than one answer to each question and stop right? Or were there more rules? If so did he exploit one of the missing rules or one of the listed?

If there were more than one answer to each question, relevant how many? E.g. there were 4 possibilities and 2 answers? If so did he simply exploit the laws of probability putting two crosses in each question but doing them all having 50% of possibilities in each question but having completed them all? Something like that?

Were there many pages? Did he notice a "continue on the other page" that the others didn't?
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Re: [SurfingPikachu] I don't need to outrun the bear

Postby SurfingPikachu » Tue Jul 18, 2017 1:55 pm

Earnest

So did he concentrate the efforts in certain types of questions? No Like he noticed that each exercise counted for a certain scoring while the others didn't so he prioritized certain questions and not other questions? No, they were all 1 mark for correct and 0 marks for wrong

Did he effectively did an exercise that others weren't able to reach because they did not have enough time? No Is the structure of the test relevant? Very If so, was all multiple choice? Yes Rules of the test: multiple choice:, one point for each correct answer Yes, more than one answer to each question Again DOYD and stop right? Stop what? Or were there more rules? No-ish? If so did he exploit one of the missing rules or one of the listed? All students were aware of all rules, nothing was exploited in this sense

If there were more than one answer to each question, relevant how many? Somewhat E.g. there were 4 possibilities and 2 answers? Could work If so did he simply exploit the laws of probability putting two crosses in each question but doing them all having 50% of possibilities in each question but having completed them all? Something like that? I don't understand, perhaps you would like to give an example?

Please also note the previous question and answer:
Had any answer one or more than one possibilities? Depends on what you mean, possibly yes!
"Multiple possibilities" are involved, and this is generally the right track, but I'm not sure if you mean the same thing I do or not. You may want to ask with examples.

Were there many pages? Yes Did he notice a "continue on the other page" that the others didn't? No
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Re: [SurfingPikachu] I don't need to outrun the bear

Postby Earnest » Tue Jul 18, 2017 6:38 pm

Are probabilities involved?

"Multiple possibilities" are involved, and this is generally the right track, but I'm not sure if you mean the same thing I do or not. You may want to ask with examples--> I meant for instance Question: how are you?
Answer A: fine
Answer B: bad
Answer C: I don't know
Answer D: Very good

I don't understand, perhaps you would like to give an example?--> for instance we have: Question 1 with possible answers a b c d; question 2 with possible answers e f g h and so on. He knew that each question had two answers so, without losing time he answered for example a c and e g knowing that for both questions he had 50% of probabilities to got the right answers for each question.


Did he adopt a better strategy than others to complete the test? Did he exploit the structure of the test? If so did he gain time? Did he gain in efficiency?

is the structure of the test relevant? Very --> structure = position of the questions? Length of the questions?(so he read and answered first the questions with a shorter text to avoid losing tim?)
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Re: [SurfingPikachu] I don't need to outrun the bear

Postby SurfingPikachu » Wed Jul 19, 2017 2:05 pm

Earnest

Are probabilities involved? Yes-ish

"Multiple possibilities" are involved, and this is generally the right track, but I'm not sure if you mean the same thing I do or not. You may want to ask with examples--> I meant for instance Question: how are you?
Answer A: fine
Answer B: bad
Answer C: I don't know
Answer D: Very good
Not like this

I don't understand, perhaps you would like to give an example?--> for instance we have: Question 1 with possible answers a b c d; question 2 with possible answers e f g h and so on. He knew that each question had two answers so, without losing time he answered for example a c and e g knowing that for both questions he had 50% of probabilities to got the right answers for each question.
That sounds like 1 in 6 not 1 in 2? Anyway the test is also not like this. There were multiple possibilities but finally only one answer to be shaded so... (Or have you never seen such a test before?)

Did he adopt a better strategy than others to complete the test? Than some others yes Did he exploit the structure of the test? Yes If so did he gain time? Did he gain in efficiency? No to these

is the structure of the test relevant? Very --> structure = position of the questions? Length of the questions?(so he read and answered first the questions with a shorter text to avoid losing tim?) No to these
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Re: [SurfingPikachu] I don't need to outrun the bear

Postby SurfingPikachu » Thu Jul 20, 2017 3:06 pm

Hint - A sample question might be like this:

Which of the following LTPF forummers registered in 2017?
i) Balin
ii) Earnest
iii) IrishElk
iv) SurfingPikachu

A) i
B) ii, iii
C) i, iii, iv
D) ii, iv
E) i, ii, iii, iv
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Re: [SurfingPikachu] I don't need to outrun the bear

Postby biograd » Fri Jul 21, 2017 12:17 am

Was there partial credit for answers that were technically correct, but not "complete"? In other words, if for some question "i" and "ii" were correct but not "iii" and "iv", would picking an answer that said "ii" get partial credit even though there was a "i and ii" answer as well? If so, the best strategy may be to pick the lettered answer with the fewest numbered options, provided you are "ignorant enough" (if you are omniscient, obviously you'd pick the one that has all of the true parts and none of the false parts).
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Re: [SurfingPikachu] I don't need to outrun the bear

Postby Earnest » Fri Jul 21, 2017 6:58 am

Sorry for maybe repeating some of your questions biograd but I have seen them after I have completed my set of questions and I've tried to rephrase them partially!!!


Does the strategy in general involve the number of correct answers picked?

In answering, did he choose always the same number of correct answers (e.g.2 answers correct)? If so relevant how many?1? 2? 4? 3?

But wait...with "0 for each wrong answer and 1 for each correct one", do you mean A B C or D (I mean 0 points if the wrong answer is A B C D E or i ii iii iv)? Supposing that it refers to A B C D E (otherwise it is always convenient to choose E which is the reason why I asked the previous question), was there a specific scoring which made possible his strategy? Something like e.g. if one chose C and the right answers are ii and iii, he would get half a point because iii is correct? If so, again, did he always choose E? Is it relevant that some answers (i iii and so on) repeat themselves in A B C D E?

In exploiting the structure of the test did he only or mainly use the way in which answers are proposed? Or the structure in general? e.g. he did certain questions with a common characteristic before others? Did he read the questions before answering? Did he relevantly know that at least one answer of the proposed ones was correct?
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Re: [SurfingPikachu] I don't need to outrun the bear

Postby SurfingPikachu » Fri Jul 21, 2017 3:56 pm

Sorry, I wasn't clear enough. In the sample question, if the answers are ii) and iv), then choosing D) gives you 1 mark, whereas choosing A), B), C), or E), gives you 0 marks. Choosing none or more than one of A), B), C), D), and E) always gives you 0 marks. You have to choose D) and only D) to get the 1 mark for the question. You choosing by shading a single bubble in an optical answer sheet which is then automatically scored by a computer, no shenanigans there. Hope this clears up some confusion.

biograd

Was there partial credit for answers that were technically correct, but not "complete"? In other words, if for some question "i" and "ii" were correct but not "iii" and "iv", would picking an answer that said "ii" get partial credit even though there was a "i and ii" answer as well? If so, the best strategy may be to pick the lettered answer with the fewest numbered options, provided you are "ignorant enough" (if you are omniscient, obviously you'd pick the one that has all of the true parts and none of the false parts). No, see above. You have to choose the exact answer to get the 1 mark.

Earnest

Does the strategy in general involve the number of correct answers picked? No, or not directly

In answering, did he choose always the same number of correct answers (e.g.2 answers correct)? If so relevant how many?1? 2? 4? 3? No, or not directly

But wait...with "0 for each wrong answer and 1 for each correct one", do you mean A B C or D (I mean 0 points if the wrong answer is A B C D E or i ii iii iv)? Supposing that it refers to A B C D E (otherwise it is always convenient to choose E which is the reason why I asked the previous question), was there a specific scoring which made possible his strategy? Something like e.g. if one chose C and the right answers are ii and iii, he would get half a point because iii is correct? If so, again, did he always choose E? Is it relevant that some answers (i iii and so on) repeat themselves in A B C D E? See above. You have to choose the exact answer to get the 1 mark.

In exploiting the structure of the test did he only or mainly use the way in which answers are proposed? Yes Or the structure in general? e.g. he did certain questions with a common characteristic before others? No, he just answered all the questions in order of appearance Did he read the questions before answering? Yes Did he relevantly know that at least one answer of the proposed ones was correct? No, he knew absolutely nothing about the subject
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Re: [SurfingPikachu] I don't need to outrun the bear

Postby Enjay » Fri Jul 21, 2017 7:18 pm

Was he able to predict what the examiners thought would make a hard/good question and use that to guess the right answer?

For example, if there were 4 true/false statements and the options were as below:

1) a and b are true
2) a, b and c are true
3) a and d are true
4) c and d are true

He might be able to guess that (a) is true, since the examiners included it in three options,whereas if (a) wasn't true that would make the question too easy since anyone who happened to know (a) wasn't true would be able to give the answer as 4 without knowing if any of the others were true?

Sorry that was a very complicated explanation, but I remember having tests where we could guess the answers like that!
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Re: [SurfingPikachu] I don't need to outrun the bear

Postby SurfingPikachu » Sat Jul 22, 2017 2:55 am

Enjay: You are right!


***** SPOILER *****
This is the first question the student saw. What would you have chosen in his place?

1) Which of the following are true about lorem ipsum undergoing dolor sit amet?
i) consectetur adipiscing elit
ii) sed do eiusmod
iii) tempor incididunt
iv) dolore magna aliqua

A) ii
B) i, ii
C) ii, iv
D) i, ii, iii
E) i, iii, iv

At a glance, most students did not find anything strange about these choices, and would diligently try to recall the facts (and perhaps misconceptions) to answer the question.

The student, however, having no knowledge at all about the subject matter to rely on, noticed that in this question:
ii) appeared 4 times
i) appeared 3 times
iii) and iv) appeared 2 times

He reasoned that ii) must be correct, since if ii) was wrong, anyone who knew that ii) was wrong would be able to pick the only answer that did not include ii), without caring about whether i), iii), and iv) were correct, and the examiner would not want that.

Similarly, but less obviously, i) was probably correct, and iii) and iv) were probably wrong. So the student hesitated between A) ii and B) i, ii, before finally picking B, which turned out to be correct. In this manner, he did decently well on the exam.

And yes, like Enjay, I have been the beneficiary of many exams like that!


Thanks to everyone who played, and hope you have enjoyed yourself!
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