[Balin] Diagnosis doofus

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[Balin] Diagnosis doofus

Postby Balin » Sat Jul 15, 2017 4:20 pm

A woman brings her son to see a doctor. She has confirmed that the son is sick and correctly tells the doctor his symptoms. Why, then, is the doctor so befuddled and bemused?
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Re: [Balin] Diagnosis doofus

Postby Earnest » Sat Jul 15, 2017 4:49 pm

all humans? doctor H/A/M? son = H/C/M?

to be sure...was the woman in the right place?was him actually her son?

Relevant where the scene took place? In a n hospital? To a private doctor?did she do something wrong/funny while in the doctor's room? Are the doctor and the woman related to each other apart from the professional relationship?
Was the doctor befuddled and bemused for the same event? If so, for something that the woman told? For something that the woman did? For something that the son of the woman told or did? For two different events?

befuddled--> did something strange happen? Someone who make a mistake? the woman? the son?

Were there just three people involved? I mean son, doctor and woman? Others? Other humans? Animals? Let's the whole scene into 3: SCENE 1=woman brings her son to see a doctor; SCENE 2=She has confirmed that the son is sick and correctly tells the doctor his symptoms; SCENE 3= the woman leaves. Was the doctor befuddled for something that happened between SCENE 1 and SCENE 2? Between SCENE 2 and SCENE 3? After SCENE 3? Before SCENE 1? Same questions for bemused.
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Re: [Balin] Diagnosis doofus

Postby SurfingPikachu » Sun Jul 16, 2017 3:23 am

"Why, then, is the doctor so befuddled and bemused?" Because:
- The woman has a son at all? (e.g. she is supposedly sterile)
- The woman has that child as a son? (e.g. the age gap or skin colour is unexpected)
- The woman would bring her son to see any kind of doctor at all? (e.g. the symptoms are "good")
- The woman would bring her son to see that particular doctor? (e.g. the doctor is a geriatric doctor)
- The woman would know the son's symptoms? (e.g. the son is an infant and cannot report his symptoms)
(By the way, sign = something that can be objectively measured or observed by others e.g. a swelling, symptom = something that is subjectively felt by the patient e.g. pain, are you making this distinction?)
- The woman had the means to confirm the sickness of the son? (e.g. the woman reports a swelling in the son's internal organs)
- The son could have that kind of sickness? (e.g. a sickness only occuring in females or in elderly)
- Something about the woman? (e.g. the woman speaks perfect English, or uses obscure medical terms)
- Something about the son? (e.g. the son is named Alicia)
- Something about their relationship or past history? (e.g. the doctor is the son's father, or the woman has amnesia and just brought the son to see the doctor a day ago and is now doing it again)
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Re: [Balin] Diagnosis doofus

Postby Balin » Sun Jul 16, 2017 11:50 pm

all humans? doctor H/A/M? son = H/C/M? Yes to all

to be sure...was the woman in the right place? was him actually her son? Yes to both

Relevant where the scene took place? In a hospital? This, but it would work in a doctor's office as well To a private doctor?
did she do something wrong/funny while in the doctor's room? No, but explore Are the doctor and the woman related to each other apart from the professional relationship? No
Was the doctor befuddled and bemused for the same event? Yes If so, for something that the woman told? Yes For something that the woman did? This is also a Yes, explore For something that the son of the woman told or did? For two different events? No to these

befuddled--> did something strange happen? Yes Someone who make a mistake? Yes the woman? Yes the son? No

Were there just three people involved? Yes I mean son, doctor and woman? Yes Others? Other humans? Animals?
Let's the whole scene into 3: SCENE 1=woman brings her son to see a doctor; SCENE 2=She has confirmed that the son is sick and correctly tells the doctor his symptoms; SCENE 3= the woman leaves. Here's the correct way to split the scenes: 1 - woman confirms son is sick, 2 - woman brings son to doctor, 3 - woman correctly tells doctor his symptoms.
Was the doctor befuddled for something that happened between SCENE 1 and SCENE 2? Between SCENE 2 and SCENE 3? After SCENE 3? Before SCENE 1? Same questions for bemused. Using my splits, I could say "during Scene 1" or "during Scene 3" and both would be correct. Same answers for both

"Why, then, is the doctor so befuddled and bemused?" Because:
- The woman has a son at all? (e.g. she is supposedly sterile)
- The woman has that child as a son? (e.g. the age gap or skin colour is unexpected)
- The woman would bring her son to see any kind of doctor at all? (e.g. the symptoms are "good")
- The woman would bring her son to see that particular doctor? (e.g. the doctor is a geriatric doctor)
- The woman would know the son's symptoms? (e.g. the son is an infant and cannot report his symptoms)
(By the way, sign = something that can be objectively measured or observed by others e.g. a swelling, symptom = something that is subjectively felt by the patient e.g. pain, are you making this distinction?)
- The woman had the means to confirm the sickness of the son? (e.g. the woman reports a swelling in the son's internal organs) This is the closest answer here (but not this specific example); No to rest
- The son could have that kind of sickness? (e.g. a sickness only occuring in females or in elderly)
- Something about the woman? (e.g. the woman speaks perfect English, or uses obscure medical terms)
- Something about the son? (e.g. the son is named Alicia)
- Something about their relationship or past history? (e.g. the doctor is the son's father, or the woman has amnesia and just brought the son to see the doctor a day ago and is now doing it again)
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Re: [Balin] Diagnosis doofus

Postby Earnest » Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:00 am

to be really really sure...was the woman pregnant? Is her son born?

"during Scene 1" or "during Scene 3" and both would be correct--> so is the presence of the doctor necessary for the scene to happen? Would anyone who was not a doctor be similarly befuddled and bemused having seen the scene? Did the woman try to treat her son (wrongly) before going to the doctor? Is it relevant what she did before going to the doctor? Did the son do/tell something relevant as well?

Was the doctor befuddled and bemused because he didn't expect the woman to tell and do what she indeed did and told? If so, was him surprised in a positive way? In a negative way? Was him surprised for the woman's expertise? For the woman accuracy?

did she do something wrong/funny while in the doctor's room? No, but explore--> so did she tell something wrong/funny? Or on the contrary, did she tell something (e.g. the symptoms) with extreme precision? In a very accurate way?
Did she tell something funny about her son's symptoms/disease? Did she tell something wrong about her son's symptoms/disease/illness? Did she told something wrong about the part of her son's body where she thought he had the disease? Is the woman's job/profession relevant? Was the woman able to handle the doctor's items? If not, did she however?
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Re: [Balin] Diagnosis doofus

Postby SurfingPikachu » Mon Jul 17, 2017 1:50 pm

Is the son's age relevant? Infant? Toddler? Preschool? Elementary? Middle? High school? College? (I suppose college kids are probably no longer "children"?)
Is the son's gender relevant? Would the puzzle work with a daughter? Is the parent's gender relevant? Would the puzzle work with a father? Or must the parent and child's genders be opposite?
Is the type of sickness relevant? Must it be a very specific sickness, or a broad class of sicknesses, that allows the puzzle to work?
Does the son know he is sick? Is this relevant?
Is the sickness directly observable or measurable by the mother? Is it very obvious, or very subtle, or visible but not apparent that it is a sickness, or not easily detectable, or not at all detectable? Would these answers change for a random layman?
Is the mother herself a doctor, nurse, or other medically trained professional? Or is it the opposite, that the mother is a well-known advocate of homeopathy?
Are any of these involved? A swelling? A discoloration? A temperature? A smell? A change in voice?
Is an embarassing or private part of the body involved?
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Re: [Balin] Diagnosis doofus

Postby Balin » Tue Jul 18, 2017 1:23 pm

to be really really sure...was the woman pregnant? No Is her son born? Yes (clever idea though!)

"during Scene 1" or "during Scene 3" and both would be correct--> so is the presence of the doctor necessary for the scene to happen? Yes Would anyone who was not a doctor be similarly befuddled and bemused having seen the scene? Yes Did the woman try to treat her son (wrongly) before going to the doctor? Not "treat," but she did something wrong Is it relevant what she did before going to the doctor? Yes Did the son do/tell something relevant as well? No

Was the doctor befuddled and bemused because he didn't expect the woman to tell and do what she indeed did and told? Yes If so, was him surprised in a positive way? In a negative way? Closer to this, but not all that negative Was him surprised for the woman's expertise? No For the woman accuracy? Yes, or lack of it

did she do something wrong/funny while in the doctor's room? No, but explore--> so did she tell something wrong/funny? Yes Or on the contrary, did she tell something (e.g. the symptoms) with extreme precision? No In a very accurate way? NO
Did she tell something funny about her son's symptoms/disease? Yes Did she tell something wrong about her son's symptoms/disease/illness? Yes Did she told something wrong about the part of her son's body where she thought he had the disease? Only related to the above
Is the woman's job/profession relevant? No Was the woman able to handle the doctor's items? What do you mean by this? If not, did she however?

Is the son's age relevant? Not really Infant? Toddler? Preschool? Elementary? Middle? High school? College? (I suppose college kids are probably no longer "children"?) Assume preschool or elementary
Is the son's gender relevant? Would the puzzle work with a daughter? Is the parent's gender relevant? Would the puzzle work with a father? Or must the parent and child's genders be opposite? All genders of people involved in this puzzle are irrelevant
Is the type of sickness relevant? Yes Must it be a very specific sickness, or a broad class of sicknesses, that allows the puzzle to work? Broad class. One common symptom must be present
Does the son know he is sick? Yes Is this relevant? No
Is the sickness directly observable or measurable by the mother? Yes, explore... Is it very obvious, or very subtle, or visible but not apparent that it is a sickness, or not easily detectable, or not at all detectable? I wouldn't call it a visible symptom, but if you saw someone with this symptom, you'd probably know or guess Would these answers change for a random layman? No
Is the mother herself a doctor, nurse, or other medically trained professional? Definitely not Or is it the opposite, that the mother is a well-known advocate of homeopathy? No (but there are plenty of stories about that too...)
Are any of these involved? A swelling? A discoloration? A temperature? This; No to rest A smell? A change in voice?
Is an embarassing or private part of the body involved? No
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Re: [Balin] Diagnosis doofus

Postby SurfingPikachu » Tue Jul 18, 2017 2:12 pm

Ok so the son had a temperature? Did the son have any other relevant symptoms?
Did the mother describe the temperature in a weird way? Describe the finding out of the temperature in a weird way? Describe the measuring of the temperature in a weird way? Did she use a thermometer? Her hand? Some other object to measure temperature?

WAGs: Did she try to cook an egg on the son's skin? Did she use a thermometer rectally then orally? (eww) Did she stick a decorative room temperature thermometer in her son's mouth?
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Re: [Balin] Diagnosis doofus

Postby Earnest » Wed Jul 19, 2017 8:03 am

Well I think Pickachu is very close to the solution so I'll try to do other guesses even though I am not really convinced about them...

did she use a wrong scale to measure her son's temperature (like Celsius)? Did she use a wrong instrument to tell the temperature? Pickachu already told quite all the possibilities, however, relevant whether she used a digital thermometer rather than a mercury one? A kitchen thermometer? Did she forget the thermometer somewhere?

correctly tells the doctor his symptoms--> so she told the doctor that his son had temperature but she wrongly told the doctor his son's temperature right? And to be sure...did she comunicate to the doctor that the son had a too high temperature right (not a too low one)?
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Re: [Balin] Diagnosis doofus

Postby SurfingPikachu » Wed Jul 19, 2017 3:05 pm

I think you have more faith than me in my questions :lol:
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Re: [Balin] Diagnosis doofus

Postby Balin » Wed Jul 19, 2017 8:45 pm

Ok so the son had a temperature? Yes Did the son have any other relevant symptoms? No
Did the mother describe the temperature in a weird way? Describe the finding out of the temperature in a weird way? Describe the measuring of the temperature in a weird way? This
Did she use a thermometer? NO Her hand? Yes Some other object to measure temperature? Also Yes

WAGs: Did she try to cook an egg on the son's skin? None of these, but this one is not completely off the mark... Did she use a thermometer rectally then orally? (eww) Did she stick a decorative room temperature thermometer in her son's mouth?

did she use a wrong scale to measure her son's temperature (like Celsius)? No Did she use a wrong instrument to tell the temperature? Oh yes Pikachu already told quite all the possibilities, however, relevant whether she used a digital thermometer rather than a mercury one? No A kitchen thermometer? No BUT... Did she forget the thermometer somewhere? No

correctly tells the doctor his symptoms--> so she told the doctor that his son had temperature but she wrongly told the doctor his son's temperature right? Yes And to be sure...did she comunicate to the doctor that the son had a too high temperature right (not a too low one)? Right, she gave an absurdly high temperature

Well I think Pikachu is very close to the solution You both are very close now...
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Re: [Balin] Diagnosis doofus

Postby Earnest » Thu Jul 20, 2017 7:43 am

Did she first use her hand and then another instrument to be sure? Did she have something like a glove on her hand? Was her hand colder than the normal?
Did she put her hand on her son's brow?

So something in the kitchen is involved right? Something that measures temperature digitally? Did she do something like formulating an hypothesis on the basis of a temperature she saw and comparing it with the temperature of her hand? E.g. she didn't know that the oven was turned on so she saw the actual temperature displayed by the oven which was much higher than the normal. When touching the son's brow she had the sensation that the brow was much hotter than the "outside temperature" so that she concluded that the temperature of her son should be much higher than the one measured by the oven. Something like that?
absurdly high temperature --> something like an oven/cooker involved?

Did she try to measure the temperature of her hand? Did she make a comparison between the temperature of her hand before and after?
While measuring he temperature of her son with her hand did she relevantly look at another item in the kitchen? Was she doing something in the meantime?
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Re: [Balin] Diagnosis doofus

Postby Balin » Thu Jul 20, 2017 10:32 am

Did she first use her hand and then another instrument to be sure? Yes - she used her hand and the other thing simultaneously Did she have something like a glove on her hand? No Was her hand colder than the normal? No
Did she put her hand on her son's brow? One hand, yes

So something in the kitchen is involved right? Yes Something that measures temperature digitally? Yes,
see below
Did she do something like formulating a hypothesis on the basis of a temperature she saw and comparing it with the temperature of her hand? Yes... E.g. she didn't know that the oven was turned on No so she saw the actual temperature displayed by the oven Yes which was much higher than the normal. When touching the son's brow she had the sensation that the brow was much hotter than the "outside temperature" so that she concluded that the temperature of her son should be much higher than the one measured by the oven. No, but... Something like that? ...this scenario is fairly close to the solution
absurdly high temperature --> something like an oven/cooker involved? Yes - the oven

Did she try to measure the temperature of her hand? Yes Did she make a comparison between the temperature of her hand before and after? No
While measuring he temperature of her son with her hand did she relevantly look at another item in the kitchen? Yes, the oven Was she doing something in the meantime? No
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Re: [Balin] Diagnosis doofus

Postby biograd » Thu Jul 20, 2017 1:43 pm

Did she have one hand on her son's forehead, and the other hand on the outside of the closed oven door at the same time? Did she conclude that since her two hands felt about the same temperature, that her son's forehead must be at a similar temperature to the one shown on the oven? (not realizing, of course, that the thermometer in the oven measures the inside temperature, which is much hotter than the outside of the door when the oven is running)
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Re: [Balin] Diagnosis doofus

Postby Balin » Sat Jul 22, 2017 2:05 am

Did she have one hand on her son's forehead, and the other hand on the outside of the closed oven door at the same time? Not on the outside... Did she conclude that since her two hands felt about the same temperature, that her son's forehead must be at a similar temperature to the one shown on the oven? Yep. (not realizing, of course, that the thermometer in the oven measures the inside temperature, Exactly, except she did realize it... which is much hotter than the outside of the door when the oven is running)

I think I can call it here.

****SPOILER****

"So your child has a fever?"
"Yes, his temperature is 483 degrees."
"Wha... how did you come up with that number?"
"Well, I don't have a thermometer, so I opened up the oven and turned it on. I put one hand on my child's forehead and one hand in the oven, and at 483 degrees they felt the same."
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Re: [Balin] Diagnosis doofus (*SEDATED*)

Postby SurfingPikachu » Sat Jul 22, 2017 2:59 am

Whoa whoa whoa, not on the outside? Then... she stuck a hand on the inside?! At 483 degrees? Yikes!
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Re: [Balin] Diagnosis doofus (*SEDATED*)

Postby Earnest » Sat Jul 22, 2017 8:06 am

Was she wonder woman? Was she simply crazy? hahahahahaha
Nice puzzle!
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