[Westing1992] Butchered Butchery

[Westing1992]

Had she attempted suicide once, she may have succeeded.
But because she attempted it five times, she failed.

[Earnest]

Hi westing1992, nice to meet you for the first tine in the forum!

...to be sure...she = H/A/F? Suicide = kill herself?
Succeed= die?

If so...Relevant how she tried to kill herself? With a weapon? A gun? Falling from a bridge? She hanged herself? Poisoned herself? Drowning herself? Did she try to kill herself subsequently or within a relevant time period? If so a regular one? Days? Months? Hours? Minutes? And above all did she fail? E.g. she tried a first time she failed then after a minute the second time after a minute the third and so on?

If she failed, relevant the reason why? Is it due to a wrong thing she did while attempting suicide? Because she was discovered? Was she already injured? Was she ill? Relevant why she wanted to kill herself?
Would she have failed had she attempted 2 times? 3 times? 4 times? 10 times?

Ok...then...if she had tried 5 times, there must be also a first time she tried to suicide right? If so, did she fail because she attemted a second time? A third time? A fourth and a five times? Again if so, did the subsequent times somehow counter the "effects" of the first attenpts?

[Westing1992]

...to be sure...she = H/A/F? Suicide = kill herself?
Succeed= die? Yes to all (and failed=survived)

If so...Relevant how she tried to kill herself? Yes. With a weapon? A gun? This. Falling from a bridge? She hanged herself? ...and this. Poisoned herself? ...and this! Drowning herself? Did she try to kill herself subsequently or within a relevant time period? Yes. If so a regular one? Days? Months? Hours? Minutes? And above all did she fail? E.g. she tried a first time she failed then after a minute the second time after a minute the third and so on? Not this, but OTRT!

If she failed, relevant the reason why? Is it due to a wrong thing she did while attempting suicide? Because she was discovered? Was she already injured? Was she ill? Relevant why she wanted to kill herself? No to all.
Would she have failed had she attempted 2 times? 3 times? 4 times? 10 times? Hard to say.

Ok...then...if she had tried 5 times, there must be also a first time she tried to suicide right? If so, did she fail because she attemted a second time? A third time? A fourth and a five times? Again if so, did the subsequent times somehow counter the "effects" of the first attenpts? FA, but once again, OTRT!

[Balin]

Does "five times" mean there were five bullets in the gun? That she pulled the trigger five times? Russian Roulette involved?

[Earnest]

so various way: with a gun, hanging, poisoning herself, then with other weapons? or with a plastic bag maybe? with fire? with the help of someone?

is the order of the attempts relevant? I mean...did she first try with the gun? then by poisoning? then by hanging? or another way? did she stop the action at a certain point changing the way in which she wanted to suicide? If so, did she change her mind at a certain relevant point each time?

was she undecided on the way she wanted to suicide thus changing each time the way but not completing the action? e.g. she pointed the gun on her head but didn't pull the trigger? Did she mind the consequences of her suicide? Did she want that hers resemble a suicide ? Did she want to involve others in her suicide? (e.g. she burned down the place where she lived, or she wanted someone to be incriminated...)

Did she attempt all the types of suicide at the same time? Some types at the same time and the others subsequently? Was she at the end of the attempts injured even if not died? is it something like she drink a poison and suddenly tried to hang herself thus avoiding to swallow the poison?

[Balin]

Actually, I think I may know this one. PM on the way soon.

[Westing1992]

Does "five times" mean there were five bullets in the gun? That she pulled the trigger five times? Russian Roulette involved? No to all.

so various way: with a gun, hanging, poisoning herself, then with other weapons? Yope. or with a plastic bag maybe? No. with fire? Something related to fire. with the help of someone? No.

is the order of the attempts relevant? I mean...did she first try with the gun? then by poisoning? then by hanging? or another way? did she stop the action at a certain point changing the way in which she wanted to suicide? If so, did she change her mind at a certain relevant point each time? See below...

was she undecided on the way she wanted to suicide thus changing each time the way but not completing the action? e.g. she pointed the gun on her head but didn't pull the trigger? No; see below... Did she mind the consequences of her suicide? Did she want that hers resemble a suicide ? Did she want to involve others in her suicide? (e.g. she burned down the place where she lived, or she wanted someone to be incriminated...) No.

Did she attempt all the types of suicide at the same time? YES! Some types at the same time and the others subsequently? Was she at the end of the attempts injured even if not died? is it something like she drink a poison and suddenly tried to hang herself thus avoiding to swallow the poison? Not this, but along those lines.

[Earnest]

did she have difficulties in attempting all together? did she build up sort of engines to perform all types of suicide at the same time?

so...hanging: was the woman on a chair? on a stool? relevant? did she have a noose around her neck?
poisoning: did she drink something? did she eat something?

other types of suicide: fire--> she tried to burn herself? she burned her house? is gas involved? did she try to burn something? maybe something which was under her feet?
other --> did she use a knife? did it involve bleeding? suffocation? heart attack? electricity? electricity with water?

[Westing1992]

did she have difficulties in attempting all together? Yes. did she build up sort of engines to perform all types of suicide at the same time? I'm not sure what you mean by this... if by 'engines' you mean 'machine', then no.

so...hanging: was the woman on a chair? on a stool? relevant? No; either could work. did she have a noose around her neck? YES!
poisoning: did she drink something? did she eat something? Yope.

other types of suicide: fire--> she tried to burn herself? she burned her house? No. is gas involved? It WAS, but I'm deciding to drop this method BECAUSE it conflicts with the fire. did she try to burn something? maybe something which was under her feet? YES!
other --> did she use a knife? did it involve bleeding? suffocation? heart attack? electricity? electricity with water? None of these.

In reading these questions, I've realized that my scenario doesn't make total logical sense (though I took it from an outside source). To simplify things, I'm reducing the number of methods down to four.

[irishelk]

So, her method of suicide involves putting a rope around her neck and standing on something that is burning? The idea being that as it burns away to nothing, she should suffocate? And if that doesn't work, she will burn?
Does the thing she is standing on fail to burn completely? Does it catch the rope on fire? Does it catch her/her clothing on fire?

And as she is in this position, she also tries to shoot and poison herself, right? Does she try to swallow the poison? If so, does she succeed? Does the poison fail because of the noose? The fire? The gun?

Is she trying to shoot herself with a gun? Something else? If herself, relevant where on her body she shoots? Does she break the rope with the bullet?

[Westing1992]

So, her method of suicide involves putting a rope around her neck and standing on something that is burning? No. The idea being that as it burns away to nothing, she should suffocate? And if that doesn't work, she will burn?
Does the thing she is standing on fail to burn completely? Does it catch the rope on fire? Does it catch her/her clothing on fire? No to all.

And as she is in this position, she also tries to shoot and poison herself, right? Yes. Does she try to swallow the poison? Yes. If so, does she succeed? Does the poison fail because of the noose? The fire? The gun? None of these directly...

Is she trying to shoot herself with a gun? This. Something else? If herself, relevant where on her body she shoots? She's aiming for her head. Does she break the rope with the bullet? YES!

For 'poison', this might actually depend on your definition.

[Acridian9]

(Sorry if something has already been asked, but I've to make some points to understand)

Is this suicide method time line correct: first she gets poison, then sets fire to something (herself?), then hangs herself and finally shoots herself in the head?

Relevant what poison she used? did she drink it? inhale it? inject it? Relevat?
Did she use an accelerant? Relevant? Is the igniting method relevant?
Relevant where she hung herself? Inside? Outside?
Relevant the type of gun she used? the type of bullets?

Did she fall down after breaking the rope?
Was the fire extinguished? if yes, before the shot? after?
Was the poison neutralized by an antidote? by the fire (was it thermolabile)?

[GalFisk]

Did the gunshot miss her head? If so: because of the fire? Because of the poison? Is the poison a medicine? A drug? Alcohol? Wag: did the drug make her uncoordinated, so she failed to shoot herself and instead broke the rope, which then let her fall onto the fire before it got going, smothering it?
Or did she throw up on the fire?

[Westing1992]

Is this suicide method time line correct: first she gets poison, then sets fire to something (herself?) Not herself, then hangs herself and finally shoots herself in the head? It was more simultaneous that this.

Relevant what poison she used? Yes. did she drink it? inhale it? inject it? None of these, though.
Did she use an accelerant? Relevant? Is the igniting method relevant? No to all.
Relevant where she hung herself? Inside? Outside? Inside, but I suppose it could work outside.
Relevant the type of gun she used? the type of bullets? Not really.

Did she fall down after breaking the rope? Yes.
Was the fire extinguished? Yes. if yes, before the shot? after? After.
Was the poison neutralized by an antidote? No. by the fire (was it thermolabile)? No.

Did the gunshot miss her head? Yes. If so: because of the fire? Because of the poison? Is the poison a medicine? A drug? Alcohol? Wag: did the drug make her uncoordinated, No. so she failed to shoot herself and instead broke the rope, Yes which then let her fall onto the fire before it got going, smothering it? No.
Or did she throw up on the fire? No.

Note: The reason she missed was probably simply because she was in an awkward position.

[GalFisk]

Did she eat the poison? Did she fall on her stomach and throw up? Was the fire smothered? Starved of oxygen? Of fuel? Was it doused? Was it smaller than a campfire?

[Acridian9]

About the fire: was it intended to burn her? were there flames? or is it more like she lit a fuse of a bomb?

[Westing1992]

Did she eat the poison? She attempted to. Did she fall on her stomach and throw up? Not quite, but similar. Was the fire smothered? Starved of oxygen? Of fuel? Was it doused? THIS. Was it smaller than a campfire? Yes.

About the fire: was it intended to burn her? were there flames? or is it more like she lit a fuse of a bomb? THIS.

[GalFisk]

Did she spit out the poison? Did she try to take it with a glass of water? Did it taste foul? Did it hurt her mouth?

[Westing1992]

Did she spit out the poison? Yes. Did she try to take it with a glass of water? YES! Did it taste foul? Did it hurt her mouth?

[GalFisk]

Did she spit it out because the rope started to strangle her? And it doused the fire? And the gun hit the rope? So her poisoning failed, her hanging failed, her shooting failed and her bomb (or similar) also failed?

[Westing1992]

Did she spit it out because the rope started to strangle her? And it doused the fire? And the gun hit the rope? So her poisoning failed, her hanging failed, her shooting failed and her bomb (or similar) also failed?
Close enough for a
***SPOILER***
I took this scenario from the 1991 movie Delicatessen, in which a woman tries five methods of suicide: gunshot, hanging, overdose of pills, Molotov cocktail, and gas oven. The gun shoots through the rope, she spills her water on the cocktail, and falls against the oven door, closing it. Since I realized that the gas and flame might interact too soon, I decided to remove the gas halfway through.