[CoffeeBean] Did I Visit A Haunted Mansion?

[CoffeeBean]

I visited a place in which I saw a picture of a certain person. At the time I did not know who he was, but shortly after visiting the place I learned that many people deny this person's existence. There are other pictures of this person not only in the place I visited, but all across the U.S. and very likely in many other countries. I also learned that in some cases, other people who appear in pictures with this person will also deny that he ever existed. Can you figure out who he is?


This is FRL, based on my experience. While it's not likely you'll know his name (maybe somebody will, I didn't until I researched the topic), it may be likely that someone knows who he is. Any knowledge about the relevant topic here will help you reach the solution, even if you've never heard of him or seen any pictures of him...

[Insight]

Excuse me, but what is "FRL"?
Person:
HAM? HAF?
Did he or she actually existed or it is unknown?
It´s an actual person or an allegory?
It´s a historical figure?
Did he/she lived in the 21st century 20th 19th 18th 17th earlier?
Was he/she an american?

Picture:
A photograph? A Painting? A daguerreotype?

Place you visited:
A house? A public place?

[CoffeeBean]

Excuse me, but what is "FRL"? Sorry, it's "From Real Life"
Person:
HAM? Yes HAF?
Did he or she actually existed or it is unknown? Yes, he did. People knew him, talked to him, took photographs of him, etc. But according to certain people (especially one small group of people), he didn't.
It´s an actual person Yes or an allegory? No
It´s a historical figure? Yes, but he is still alive (if you acknowledge that he's a real person, that is)
Did he/she lived in the 21st century 20th 19th 18th 17th earlier? Born in the 20th century, still alive today
Was he/she an american? Yes

Picture:
A photograph? A Painting? I saw him in both of these A daguerreotype? No, at least not that I've ever seen

Place you visited:
A house? Yes...ish, explore A public place? Yes

[trebor]

Is the place a former residence that has been converted into a museum? If so, did this person ever live there?

The people who deny that exists, do they actually believe he doesn't exist? Would they be in danger if they acknowledged his existence? (I'm thinking of WWII scenarios, where people helping Jewish people to escape might've had to deny that particular Jewish people were known to them. Anything this dangerous going on?)

Is the man's profession relevant? Other works he has done? Does the group of people who deny his existence pose a threat to everyone else?

[Insight]

Place you visited:
A library? a museum? Did you payed a ticket to enter this place?

The people who think he didn´t existed, think that because they say:
he never was even born? he is a ghost, an alien or a supernatural being? he died and is being impersonated by someone else (like the Paul McCartney or Avril Lavigne rumours)?
Twin or lookalikes relevant?

The profession of him is something related to:
military? politics? entertainment? religion?

Have you seen him in person? Do you think he exists?

[CoffeeBean]

Is the place a former residence that has been converted into a museum? No (with a "but")
If so, did this person ever live there? No, no person ever lived at the location

The people who deny that exists, do they actually believe he doesn't exist? They know he did, but they'll say that he didn't
Would they be in danger if they acknowledged his existence? (I'm thinking of WWII scenarios, where people helping Jewish people to escape might've had to deny that particular Jewish people were known to them. Anything this dangerous going on?) This is a funny question given the subject, and you'll understand why I say this when the solution is reached. The people who say that he doesn't exist probably would tell you that they would face a type of danger if they ever admitted that he did exist, but it's nothing truly dangerous, certainly nothing like the situation in a war.

Is the man's profession relevant? Yes, very (see below) Other works he has done? Yes, related to his profession
Does the group of people who deny his existence pose a threat to everyone else? Not really, possibly only a perceived threat

Place you visited:
A library? a museum? A portion of it is a museum but this is not the primary function
Did you payed a ticket to enter this place? Yes

The people who think he didn´t existed, think that because they say:
he never was even born? No, they'd all admit that he was born he is a ghost, an alien or a supernatural being? No
he died and is being impersonated by someone else (like the Paul McCartney or Avril Lavigne rumours)? No
Twin or lookalikes relevant? No

The profession of him is something related to:
military? politics? entertainment? <-- This religion?

Have you seen him in person? No Do you think he exists? I know he does, I'm not one of the people who would have any reason to deny his existence (good q)

[Balin]

Is he a singer? Actor? Writer?

[CoffeeBean]

Is he a singer? Actor? Writer? He's none of these

[trebor]

Is time travel relevant? When they deny his existence, are they making a joke? Is he a writer? Visual artist? Photographer? Musician? Does he relevantly use his voice in the creation of his work? Would most people recognize him upon seeing him? (Or seeing a picture of him?) Is he under 50 years of age?

Do the people who deny his existence do so because it benefits them? If so, financially? Emotionally? Do they deny his existence because to do so fits in with a world view they hold? Because to do so fits with a storyline or something similar from a fictional world (show, graphic novel, movie, etc.)?

Is displaying his work the primary function of the place you visited? Is it a gallery? Is it where he works?

[CoffeeBean]

Is time travel relevant? No
When they deny his existence, are they making a joke? Not exactly but OTRT
Is he a writer? Visual artist? Photographer? Musician? <-- This
Does he relevantly use his voice in the creation of his work? No
Would most people recognize him upon seeing him? They might, it's hard to say. If they saw him in certain places they would recognize him immediately (Or seeing a picture of him?) If the picture was a certain kind he would be recognized by many people Is he under 50 years of age? Not now, he's not

Do the people who deny his existence do so because it benefits them? Not really but OTRT
If so, financially? No Emotionally? In a way, possibly. Explore.
Do they deny his existence because to do so fits in with a world view they hold? This is very close to it, yes
Because to do so fits with a storyline You could say this, yes or something similar from a fictional world (show, graphic novel, movie, etc.)? But not this, no

Is displaying his work the primary function of the place you visited? No Is it a gallery? Part of it is, yes, but this isn't the primary purpose
Is it where he works? No

[trebor]

Is his instrument the guitar? Bass? Piano/keyboard? Banjo? Mandolin? Ukulele? Another stringed instrument? Drums/percussion? Brass? Does he play an orchestral instrument? Turntable/computer? Is he primarily known as a classical musician? Metal? Rock? Jazz? Pop? Indie? Folk? Hip-hop? Rap? Country? Reggae? Electronic? Is he a DJ? Is he known as a composer? Is he known for film/TV scores?

Is he aware that people deny his existence? Does he find it amusing? Annoying? Frustrating? Sad? Does it make him happy?

Is his name more well-known than his likeness?

[CoffeeBean]

Is his instrument the...Drums/percussion? This, yes
Is he primarily known as a classical musician? Metal? Rock? Jazz? Pop? Indie? Folk? Hip-hop? Rap? Country? <-- This Reggae? Electronic? Is he a DJ? Is he known as a composer? Is he known for film/TV scores? None of these

Is he aware that people deny his existence? Yes, very aware Does he find it amusing? He says that he does now
Annoying? At one point he did Frustrating? Also yes, at one point Sad? Maybe Does it make him happy? Probably not

Is his name more well-known than his likeness? Some people would say that it is, and for a very specific reason. If you heard his name and didn't recognize it, but then saw a picture of him (and something else specific), you'd figure out who he is

[trebor]

So he's a country drummer? Is he also relevantly mentioned in a song? Is the place you were in a concert venue? Is the Opry relevant? Do the people who deny his existence say that he has died?

If I saw a picture of him and something else specific, I'd figure out who he is. Is his name known outside country music circles? Is the "something else specific" something he invented? Is it the only item of its kind in the world? Is it a common item? Is the colour of it remarkable? The size? Is it a form of transport? A wearable item? Is it something living? Something that was once alive? Is it related to music?

[CoffeeBean]

So he's a country drummer? Yes Is he also relevantly mentioned in a song? No
Is the place you were in a concert venue? Yes Is the Opry relevant? Yes but only indirectly
Do the people who deny his existence say that he has died? No

If I saw a picture of him and something else specific, I'd figure out who he is. Well to be more exact, you would have to see two different pictures and talk to a person who denies his existence to fully understand something about him.
Is his name known outside country music circles? Possibly Is the "something else specific" something he invented? No
Is it the only item of its kind in the world? It is the only of its kind, but you wouldn't call it an "item"
Is it a common item? Is the colour of it remarkable? The size? Is it a form of transport? A wearable item? See previous
Is it something living? Something living is relevant, yes Something that was once alive? Is still alive, and... Is it related to music?...this also.

[trebor]

Is the "thing" a person? If so, gender relevant? A family member of his? A friend? Another musician? Someone who is/has been part of a duo or group with him? Is there some wordplay or some such going on that causes the denial of his existence?

[CoffeeBean]

Is the "thing" a person? Yes, more than one If so, gender relevant? Yes A family member of his? NoA friend? Uh, no, fairly sure the answer to this is no Another musician? Yes, more than one Someone who is/has been part of a duo or group with him? YES, more than one person who has done this Is there some wordplay or some such going on that causes the denial of his existence? No, but the questions in this set should help clarify why the denial exists

[trebor]

Is the "thing" the rest of the band he's currently in? Members of a band he used to be in? Is his relationship with the people in the picture currently acrimonious? Are the band members people who deny his existence? Is this something like he says he was part of the band and other people say he wasn't, so his existence within it is denied?

Would it help to figure out the band? Was their heyday considered to be in the 2000s? 1990s? 80s? 70s? 60s? 50s?

[Insight]

The people who denied his existence said that because:
They said he was too talented to be a human being?
He was not the one performing but was someone else/something else doing it? Did some other band members also played the drums?
Name aliases relevant? gender relevant?

Are the people who denied his existence connected in some way?
All share the same political or religious view?
Did someone outside music bussiness deny his existence?
Bets relevant?

[CoffeeBean]

Is the "thing" the rest of the band he's currently in? Not this, but...Members of a band he used to be in?...this.
Is his relationship with the people in the picture currently acrimonious? Probably, although he says it's not, but...
Are the band members people who deny his existence? They don't go this far, but the feeling is similar to it
Is this something like he says he was part of the band and other people say he wasn't, so his existence within it is denied? Exactly!

Would it help to figure out the band? Was their heyday considered to be in the 2000s? 1990s? 80s? 70s? 60s? 50s?
Sure, before closing out the puzzle I'll wait and see if anyone knows which band this is and how it's possible to see several photos of this person who didn't exist. They were very popular in the 80's and into the mid 90's. As recently as 6 years ago they received recognition as one of the greatest country bands of all time, and they did something that clearly showed their view of this other person.

The people who denied his existence said that because:
They said he was too talented to be a human being? No
He was not the one performing but was someone else/something else doing it? No
Did some other band members also played the drums? No, originally they did not have a regular band member playing the drums, the official members only played guitar and sang
Name aliases relevant? gender relevant? No

Are the people who denied his existence connected in some way? Yes, one major common bond
All share the same political or religious view? Not relevant
Did someone outside music business deny his existence? Yes, in fact the people who deny his existence aren't typically in the music business
Bets relevant? No

[biograd]

I am quite familiar with the current country music scene, and most people I know aren't, so I feel like I should be the one solving this. But it's possible this band is from decades ago, in which case I am less likely to know it (though if they sung some classics there's a good chance I've still heard of them).

Most of the big-name country singers are, and have been, solo artists. People like Luke Bryan, Carrie Underwood, Brad Paisley, or (going back a bit farther) Garth Brooks, Kenny Chesney, even people like Emmylou Harris who was kind of on the border between country and folk. I can only think of a few big-name bands, and none of them were even around before 10 years ago, so...

Did this band include a member who was better known as a solo artist?

[CoffeeBean]

Did this band include a member who was better known as a solo artist? No. The band is among the most popular ones in the history of country music, they began growing in popularity in the late 70's and became more mainstream in the 80's. It's possible that many people don't know the names of anyone in the group but know the name of the collective group as it's always been called. The person whose participation with the band is ignored by so many people is probably not known by name to very many people except those who are the most loyal fans of the group, but even as recently as last September the band made an appearance and it was clear that they do not want to be associated with the other person. To my knowledge, none of the people from the band have ever done any solo work, but the band has always consisted of its original members with one exception, which is the reason why so many of their fans refuse to acknowledge that the person was actually a member of the group.

[trebor]

Was this person excluded from the bands induction into the Country Hall of Fame? Into the Opry Hall of Fame (if there is one)? Something similar? (I'm thinking the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame might not be appropriate for these guys.)

Is the group Alabama? Sawyer Brown? Were they known as a duo (with additional non-member musicians)?

[CoffeeBean]

Was this person excluded from the bands induction into the Country Hall of Fame? Into the Opry Hall of Fame (if there is one)? Something similar? (I'm thinking the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame might not be appropriate for these guys.) From an award reception, yes (see below)

Is the group Alabama? It is!

** SPOILER **

The country group Alabama was formed by 3 cousins, and this trio is considered to be the only "real" members of the band. When they signed on with a major record label (RCA, I believe), they were told that a drummer needed to be added to the group in order to satisfy the company's demands. So a drummer named Mark Herndon became part of the group in photos, stage appearances, etc. But to the group's fan base and to the 3 other members, he wasn't considered a true group member. Herndon stayed part of the group until the 90's, still appearing in photos, music videos and stage appearances. But the relationship between him and the original members was strained, they still didn't consider him part of the group (nor did the fans of the group).

So recently I visited a theater named for the group, and inside there is a portion that is a sort of museum. This part includes numerous photos of the group, many of them include Herndon. As I saw these photos, I remembered that there was a time when photos of the group showed only 3 members, so I looked up the group's history and learned about this "unofficial" fourth member. I read that people who consider themselves "true fans" of Alabama never include Herndon's name when they talk about the group, and when they see photos showing the group with four members, they will comment that one of them was never part of the group.

Two years ago, the group was recognized during an awards show. As they took the stage to receive the award, a photo of the group was displayed on the wall behind the stage. This was a photo that had originally included Herndon, but had been obviously cropped so that he was not visible and only the original three members appeared.