[IrishElk] Breaking Away

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[IrishElk] Breaking Away

Postby irishelk » Thu Dec 14, 2017 5:33 pm

Probably a quickie, but I couldn't resist.

There seems to be one way to win a congressional election with certainty, but no candidate ever decides to take advantage of it.
Last edited by irishelk on Sun Dec 17, 2017 3:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [IrishElk] Breaking Away

Postby WiZ » Thu Dec 14, 2017 11:42 pm

Does it involve eliminating the other candidate, or the possibility of voting for the other party? Does it involve duping the voters? When this scheme is acted on, would the public expect the result that it would inevitably achieve? Is the system of voting exploited somehow, or could this be achieved through clever campaigning?
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Re: [IrishElk] Breaking Away

Postby irishelk » Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:46 am

WiZ

Does it involve eliminating the other candidate, or the possibility of voting for the other party? No. Does it involve duping the voters? No. When this scheme is acted on, would the public expect the result that it would inevitably achieve? Possibly, but not necessarily. Is the system of voting exploited somehow, Hard to answer, but I'll say no. or could this be achieved through clever campaigning? Not primarily, though this could be involved.
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Re: [IrishElk] Breaking Away

Postby Earnest » Fri Dec 15, 2017 8:12 am

ok premising my total and complete ignorance on the voting system for congressional elections, I'll try to figure out some possible scenarios based sometimes on my country's system of voting...

So, congressional elections = the election of a single candidate for both chambers? The election of each one of the members of the chambers? Could this system be applied also at presidential level? If not, for the nature of the campaigns undertaken in the two cases? For the number of candidates?

Then...no candidates took advantage of it because it was dangerous to do it? Because it was somehow a military/dictorial way to take the power? Because they were not aware of the possibility of doing it? Is it a legal way to win elections? Because after the candidate eventually won his election would have been disapproved by people/other states? His mandate would have decay soon?

Because the strategy involves the fact of being in a particular condition in which candidates are typucally not? Because the strategy involves some previous step which is much more difficult to climb than a direct election? Because the strategy is designed for candidates that are typically not interested in taking part to a congressional election?
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Re: [IrishElk] Breaking Away

Postby GalFisk » Fri Dec 15, 2017 11:16 am

Would using this strategy make people like you more? Like your opponent less? Motivate your supporters to vote? Demotivate your opponents to vote? Would it have unfortunate consequences for you? For someone else, apart from the consequences to the opponent for losing? Is it not used because it is not known? It is hard to do? It is frowned upon? It is counterintuitive? It is counterproductive?
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Re: [IrishElk] Breaking Away

Postby irishelk » Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:25 pm

Earnest

ok premising my total and complete ignorance on the voting system for congressional elections, I'll try to figure out some possible scenarios based sometimes on my country's system of voting... Completely understandable, but I'll give you this (which I should have up top, really): No specific knowledge of US Congress elections necessary.

So, congressional elections = the election of a single candidate for both chambers? The election of each one of the members of the chambers? In this case, electing one candidate to either house, doesn't matter.
Could this system be applied also at presidential level? In theory, but it wouldn't work. If not, for the nature of the campaigns undertaken in the two cases? Yes, namely the visibility and contentiousness of the presidential race. For the number of candidates? Not really.

Then...no candidates took advantage of it because it was dangerous to do it? Yesish. Because it was somehow a military/dictorial way to take the power? No. Because they were not aware of the possibility of doing it? Possibly not. Is it a legal way to win elections? Yes...to the larger question of legality, I'd say "depends on how you do it." Because after the candidate eventually won his election would have been disapproved by people/other states? Irr. His mandate would have decay soon? Yes, definitely.

Because the strategy involves the fact of being in a particular condition in which candidates are typically not? YES. Because the strategy involves some previous step which is much more difficult to climb than a direct election? In a sense, yes. Because the strategy is designed for candidates that are typically not interested in taking part to a congressional election? No/irr.


GalFisk

Would using this strategy make people like you more? Like your opponent less? Motivate your supporters to vote? Demotivate your opponents to vote? Possibly to all--I don't think the voter motivation angle is really known for sure.
Would it have unfortunate consequences for you? Yes indeed. For someone else, apart from the consequences to the opponent for losing? Most likely. Is it not used because it is not known? This is not the primary reason. It is hard to do? Sometimes. It is frowned upon? Depends on how you do it. It is counterintuitive? Yes. It is counterproductive? Probably.
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Re: [IrishElk] Breaking Away

Postby Balin » Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:34 pm

Would the situation involve only one candidate being on the ballot?
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Re: [IrishElk] Breaking Away

Postby Earnest » Fri Dec 15, 2017 1:16 pm

Does it involve the popularity of the candidate on media? E.g. reaching a certain percentage in a different voting process? Don't know if it is possible but something like if you reach the 90% of the nation's like in Facebook or other social, you could end up being elected? The soon devay is given by the fact that potentially anyone could do this, even ignorants in political terms
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Re: [IrishElk] Breaking Away

Postby irishelk » Sat Dec 16, 2017 1:44 pm

Balin

Would the situation involve only one candidate being on the ballot? Not necessarily. But I think this situation often coincides with that one.


Earnest

Does it involve the popularity of the candidate on media? No. E.g. reaching a certain percentage in a different voting process? Don't know if it is possible but something like if you reach the 90% of the nation's like in Facebook or other social, you could end up being elected? The soon devay is given by the fact that potentially anyone could do this, even ignorants in political terms No to all.
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Re: [IrishElk] Breaking Away

Postby Balin » Sat Dec 16, 2017 3:31 pm

Is position on the ballot relevant?
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Re: [IrishElk] Breaking Away

Postby Earnest » Sat Dec 16, 2017 4:33 pm

Typical condition = a phisycal condition? (E.g. being dead in a war) A mental condition? A social condition? Being wealthy? Belonging to a certain category of people? Something which one born with? Something which the candidate could achieve?

Something involving private life of candidate? The candidate abdicating in favor of someone else? The candidate signing a paper?

Is the method a way to acquire more votes? To make the other candidate gain less votes? To automatically being elected? Being elected = win over the other candidate? Otherwise a way could be sign an allience with the other candidate.
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Re: [IrishElk] Breaking Away

Postby irishelk » Sat Dec 16, 2017 6:38 pm

Balin

Is position on the ballot relevant? No.


Earnest

Typical condition = a physical condition? Yes, (E.g. being dead in a war) Not a war, but...I think you've got it?
A mental condition? A social condition? Being wealthy? Belonging to a certain category of people? Something which one born with? No. Something which the candidate could achieve? Yesish.

Something involving private life of candidate? Yesish. The candidate abdicating in favor of someone else? The candidate signing a paper? No to rest.

Is the method a way to acquire more votes? Possibly. To make the other candidate gain less votes? Not likely. To automatically being elected? No. Being elected = win over the other candidate? Yes. Otherwise a way could be sign an allience with the other candidate.
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Re: [IrishElk] Breaking Away

Postby Earnest » Sat Dec 16, 2017 8:04 pm

so being dead is the relevant physical condition of the candidate right?
I was thinking of something like dying for a patriotic reason; being a veteran; like an election ad honorem...
or is it just dying during the campaign? Commit suicide? Being murdered?
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Re: [IrishElk] Breaking Away

Postby irishelk » Sun Dec 17, 2017 3:09 pm

Earnest

so being dead is the relevant physical condition of the candidate right?
I was thinking of something like dying for a patriotic reason; being a veteran; like an election ad honorem...
or is it just dying during the campaign? That's it! Commit suicide? Being murdered?


********************SPOILER

Statistically speaking, every congressional candidate, between the primary and the general election, should simply do their best to die.

Every candidate that has died before the election, but stayed on the ballot, has won! Now, most of the reason for this is likely because the only time a dead candidate would be left on the ballot is if there's no other option, or no chance of them losing. But that didn't make for as fun of a puzzle statement.

Also, I think plenty of voters just get a kick out of voting for a dead guy. I would.
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Re: [IrishElk] Breaking Away {POLLS CLOSED}

Postby Earnest » Sun Dec 17, 2017 4:12 pm

Very lateral!!
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