[IrishElk] Devil's Due

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[IrishElk] Devil's Due

Postby irishelk » Sun Dec 17, 2017 3:37 pm

Isabella briefly met a couple and they later got divorced. The divorce was because Isabella had watched a scary movie.
Last edited by irishelk on Wed Feb 14, 2018 4:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [IrishElk] Devil's Due

Postby GalFisk » Mon Dec 18, 2017 4:10 pm

Did she meet them before seeing a scary movie? After? During? Did she meet them in order to be able to see the movie? Meet them because she saw the movie? Rleevant which movie exactly? Was it scary to her? Relevant? Did they both want a divorce? Did just one? Isabella1=Isabella2, right? Is she HAF? Are the couple HAM+HAF? Relevant?
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Re: [IrishElk] Devil's Due

Postby irishelk » Tue Dec 19, 2017 12:33 am

GalFisk

Did she meet them before seeing a scary movie? After? This. During?
Did she meet them in order to be able to see the movie? No. Meet them because she saw the movie? No. Relevant which movie exactly? No. Was it scary to her? Relevant? Yes, the scenario is more likely if it scared her. Did they both want a divorce? Yes. Did just one?
Isabella1=Isabella2, right? Yes. Is she HAF? Yes. Are the couple HAM+HAF? Yes. Relevant? HA yes, genders irr.
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Re: [IrishElk] Devil's Due

Postby Balin » Tue Dec 19, 2017 12:52 am

Is the exact movie relevant?
Did she meet them shortly after seeing the movie? Immediately after? A long time after?
Did the couple want a divorce before meeting Isabella? If not, did one of the partners?
Is the reason for the divorce relevant? If so, infidelity?
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Re: [IrishElk] Devil's Due

Postby trebor » Tue Dec 19, 2017 4:43 am

Is the plot of the movie relevant? Did Isabella say something to the couple that had to do with the movie? When you say she met them, do you mean she met them for the first time? Or, like, ran into them somewhere?
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Re: [IrishElk] Devil's Due

Postby dukhsan » Tue Dec 19, 2017 9:43 pm

Did the plot have to do with the scenario of the married couple, such as something happening to people who weren't getting along in their relationship? Or do the plot/visuals of the film just exist to scare Isabella?

Did Isabella describe the film to them in a way that made the couple learn, think about, or (re)consider something? Did she even mention the movie, and if not did the film just make her act differently in certain social situations going forwards?

Thanks for all the great puzzles recently!
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Re: [IrishElk] Devil's Due

Postby irishelk » Wed Dec 20, 2017 11:13 pm

Balin

Is the exact movie relevant? No.
Did she meet them shortly after seeing the movie? Immediately after? A long time after? This (Probably a few weeks).
Did the couple want a divorce before meeting Isabella? No. If not, did one of the partners? No.
Is the reason for the divorce relevant? Yes. If so, infidelity? No.


trebor

Is the plot of the movie relevant? Not exactly, but certain themes/elements are. Did Isabella say something to the couple that had to do with the movie? No. When you say she met them, do you mean she met them for the first time? This. Or, like, ran into them somewhere?


dukhsan

Did the plot have to do with the scenario of the married couple, such as something happening to people who weren't getting along in their relationship? No. Or do the plot/visuals of the film just exist to scare Isabella? Yope--it does relevantly do this...

Did Isabella describe the film to them in a way that made the couple learn, think about, or (re)consider something? No. Did she even mention the movie, No. and if not did the film just make her act differently in certain social situations going forwards? Yope, DOYD of "social situation".

Thanks for all the great puzzles recently! Aw, thank you! I get a few days off around Christmas and I can finally unload some of the puzzles I've been collecting in my brain.
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Re: [IrishElk] Devil's Due

Postby trebor » Thu Dec 21, 2017 7:00 am

Is Isabella's profession relevant? Is the profession of either member of the couple relevant? (Can we call one partner Taylor and the other Kelly?) WAG, but is/was Isabella a marriage counsellor?

Is the reason for the divorce financial strain? Financial gain? Emotional abuse? Physical abuse? General lack of communication/too much fighting? Is it a common reason for the break-up of relationships? Are children relevant? Is this a situation like one I seem to remember from one of Paul's books, where the couple divorced because their workplace forbade married couples from working together, so they became a non-married couple? Does either Taylor or Kelly believe something about the other that is untrue? Is Isabella the catalyst for whatever problem caused the divorce? Does she say something either Taylor or Kelly that makes them suspicious of their partner? Does she somehow cause them not to trust each other? Does she reveal information about one of them? Are any other people involved in this puzzle?
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Re: [IrishElk] Devil's Due

Postby GalFisk » Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:26 pm

Does the scary movie have supernatural elements? Religious? Gory? True? Startling? Disgusting? Did it change a belief Isabella had? Did the couple divorce because they didn't want to be with eachother anymore? Because of a legal issue? In order to make trouble for someone? To avoid trouble?
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Re: [IrishElk] Devil's Due

Postby irishelk » Fri Dec 22, 2017 2:22 pm

trebor

Is Isabella's profession relevant? Yes indeed. Is the profession of either member of the couple relevant? No. (Can we call one partner Taylor and the other Kelly?) Sure. WAG, but is/was Isabella a marriage counsellor? No, but not far off.

Is the reason for the divorce financial strain? Financial gain? Emotional abuse? Yope. Physical abuse? Yope. General lack of communication/too much fighting? No to rest. Is it a common reason for the break-up of relationships? Okay, I did a deep dive on this, because it's an interesting question, and I couldn't find a good answer! I'd imagine no, not very common.
Also, completely irrelevant to the puzzle, but...dancers and bartenders are most likely to get divorced. Certain types of doctors and farmers are least likely.
Also, 15% of divorces cite video game addiction as a contributing factor!
Anyway...


Are children relevant? YES. Is this a situation like one I seem to remember from one of Paul's books, where the couple divorced because their workplace forbade married couples from working together, so they became a non-married couple? No, that's a good one though. Does either Taylor or Kelly believe something about the other that is untrue? YES. Is Isabella the catalyst for whatever problem caused the divorce? Yes. Does she say something either Taylor or Kelly that makes them suspicious of their partner? No. Does she somehow cause them not to trust each other? Yes. Does she reveal information about one of them? No. Are any other people involved in this puzzle? One other.


GalFisk

Does the scary movie have supernatural elements? Probably yes, but not super relevant. Religious? Ditto. Gory? Yes. True? No. Startling? Yes. Disgusting? Yes. Did it change a belief Isabella had? Yesish. Did the couple divorce because they didn't want to be with each other anymore? Yesish, but there's more. Because of a legal issue? In order to make trouble for someone? To avoid trouble? Sort of. No to rest.
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Re: [IrishElk] Devil's Due

Postby trebor » Mon Dec 25, 2017 7:17 am

Is Isabella a therapist? A pastor? Does she work with children? Adults? Is the other relevant person a child? If so, Taylor and Kelly's? Just one of their's? Isabella's? Does either T or K believe that the other has committed abuse? Child abuse?

Is it Isabella's intent to cause problems in T and K's relationship?
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Re: [IrishElk] Devil's Due

Postby irishelk » Tue Dec 26, 2017 2:07 pm

trebor

Is Isabella a therapist? Yes. A pastor? No. Does she work with children? This. Adults? Is the other relevant person a child? Yes. If so, Taylor and Kelly's? Yes. Just one of their's? Isabella's? No to rest.
Does either T or K believe that the other has committed abuse? Child abuse? Yes!

Is it Isabella's intent to cause problems in T and K's relationship? No.
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Re: [IrishElk] Devil's Due

Postby hominid » Thu Dec 28, 2017 5:00 am

The child: HCM? HCF? Relevant how old? Can we call the child Jamie?

Is Jamie a biological child of Taylor and Kelly? Did Taylor believe that Kelly had abused Jamie? Did Kelly believe that Taylor had abused Jamie? Did either of them actually abuse Jamie?

Did Isabella commit child abuse? Against Jamie? Did she mention the scary movie to Jamie? Mention some information from it? Did Isabella believe that Taylor or Kelly had committed abuse? Did the movie involve child abuse?
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Re: [IrishElk] Devil's Due

Postby irishelk » Thu Dec 28, 2017 1:57 pm

hominid

The child: HCM? HCF? Gender irr, let's say HCF.Relevant how old? No. Can we call the child Jamie? Sure.

Is Jamie a biological child of Taylor and Kelly? Yes. Did Taylor believe that Kelly had abused Jamie? Yes. Did Kelly believe that Taylor had abused Jamie? Yes! Did either of them actually abuse Jamie? No.

Did Isabella commit child abuse? No. Against Jamie?
Did she mention the scary movie to Jamie? No. Mention some information from it? Kind of, explore. Did Isabella believe that Taylor or Kelly had committed abuse? At one point, yes. Did the movie involve child abuse? Possibly, not necessarily.
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Re: [IrishElk] Devil's Due

Postby biograd » Fri Dec 29, 2017 4:08 am

Is the idea of repressed memories relevant? Was the movie about someone who had forgotten events due to trauma?
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Re: [IrishElk] Devil's Due

Postby trebor » Sat Dec 30, 2017 8:36 am

Is the reason Isabella believed child abuse had been committed relevant? Did Jamie say something relevant to her that made her think she (Jamie) had been abused? Did Jamie say anything that had that effect? If yes to either of those, was Jamie purposely lying?

Did Taylor and Kelly ever realize that Jamie hadn’t been abused? If so, before they were divorced? After?
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Re: [IrishElk] Devil's Due

Postby GalFisk » Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:34 am

Was Jamie actually abused? Was there a child in the movie? Did Jamie suffer from anything (except the divorce)?
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Re: [IrishElk] Devil's Due

Postby irishelk » Wed Jan 03, 2018 1:33 pm

biograd

Is the idea of repressed memories relevant? YES. Was the movie about someone who had forgotten events due to trauma? Not necessarily.


trebor

Is the reason Isabella believed child abuse had been committed relevant? Yes. Did Jamie say something relevant to her that made her think she (Jamie) had been abused? Yope, exact wording isn't needed. Did Jamie say anything that had that effect? Yesish. If yes to either of those, was Jamie purposely lying? No.

Did Taylor and Kelly ever realize that Jamie hadn’t been abused? Irr. If so, before they were divorced? No. After? Possibly.


GalFisk

Was Jamie actually abused? No. Was there a child in the movie? Probably but not necessarily. Did Jamie suffer from anything (except the divorce)? Not relevantly.
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Re: [IrishElk] Devil's Due

Postby Balin » Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:34 pm

Did the movie involve child abuse? Repressed memories? Hypnosis? Exorcism?
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Re: [IrishElk] Devil's Due

Postby trebor » Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:50 pm

Did Jamie say something to Isabella that was interpreted in a way Jamie didn’t intend? (I know exact wording isn’t relevant, but for example something like, “Mommy beat me,” could be interpreted as, “Mommy defeated me in a game,” and, “Mommy hit me.”) Does Jamie have repressed memories? Does Kelly? Does Taylor? Does Isabella? Does someone else?
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Re: [IrishElk] Devil's Due

Postby irishelk » Sun Jan 14, 2018 1:56 pm

Balin

Did the movie involve child abuse? Probably, not necessarily. Repressed memories? No. Hypnosis? No. Exorcism? Possibly.


trebor

Did Jamie say something to Isabella that was interpreted in a way Jamie didn’t intend? (I know exact wording isn’t relevant, but for example something like, “Mommy beat me,” could be interpreted as, “Mommy defeated me in a game,” and, “Mommy hit me.”) Yope--not like in your example. Does Jamie have repressed memories? Does Kelly? Does Taylor? Does Isabella? Does someone else? No to all, good question.
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Re: [IrishElk] Devil's Due

Postby invisiblemimsy » Sun Jan 14, 2018 6:23 pm

Is it relevant what info from the film was mentioned to Jamie by Isabel?
Does Isabel try to extract repressed memories from Jamie?
Does Isabel discuss her concerns, or what Jamie said, with the either of both of the parents?
Are we trying to find out what Isabel said to either Jamie or his parents? Or vice versa?
PTSD relevant?
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Re: [IrishElk] Devil's Due

Postby irishelk » Mon Jan 22, 2018 2:45 pm

invisiblemimsy

Is it relevant what info from the film was mentioned to Jamie by Isabel? Not specifically.
Does Isabel try to extract repressed memories from Jamie? YES.
Does Isabel discuss her concerns, or what Jamie said, with the either of both of the parents? Probably afterward, irr.
Are we trying to find out what Isabel said to either Jamie or his parents? Not specific words, but this is relevant. I think you might have it... Or vice versa? No.
PTSD relevant? No.
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Re: [IrishElk] Devil's Due

Postby Balin » Mon Jan 22, 2018 3:33 pm

I'm probably wildly off the mark - haven't asked on this in a while - but did Jamie watch the movie with Isabella?
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Re: [IrishElk] Devil's Due

Postby irishelk » Thu Jan 25, 2018 12:37 pm

Balin

I'm probably wildly off the mark - haven't asked on this in a while - Just because I've been negligent in answering. =) but did Jamie watch the movie with Isabella? No.
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Re: [IrishElk] Devil's Due

Postby trebor » Wed Jan 31, 2018 5:24 am

Did Isabella suspect that Jamie had repressed memories based on something she saw (or learned?) during the movie?Something else that happened during the movie? Had Isabella gone through a traumatic experience prior to this? Does her suspicion that Jamie may have repressed memories stem solely from the movie? From the movie and something Jamie said to her? Is hypnosis relevant?
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Re: [IrishElk] Devil's Due

Postby invisiblemimsy » Wed Jan 31, 2018 6:55 am

Did Jamie act like a character in the film? Did he say the same words to Isabel as a character? Did he respond to what she said in the same way as a character?
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Re: [IrishElk] Devil's Due

Postby irishelk » Mon Feb 05, 2018 5:10 pm

trebor

Did Isabella suspect that Jamie had repressed memories based on something she saw (or learned?) during the movie? Yesish. Something else that happened during the movie? Had Isabella gone through a traumatic experience prior to this? No to these. Does her suspicion that Jamie may have repressed memories stem solely from the movie? Yesish. From the movie and something Jamie said to her? Yes. Is hypnosis relevant? YES.


invisiblemimsy

Did Jamie act like a character in the film? Did he say the same words to Isabel as a character? Did he respond to what she said in the same way as a character? No or irr to these.

I might $p0i1 this soon, it's fizzling...but I think you're close.
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Re: [IrishElk] Devil's Due

Postby invisiblemimsy » Mon Feb 05, 2018 6:29 pm

Was this a false memory or suggestion which she planted in Jamie's mind? Following whatever it was she saw in the movie, she suspected Jamie had been abused? So she tried to establish this by asking leading questions of Jamie during therapy? His response confirmed what she suspected, or she thought it did, so she told the parents?

Do we need to work out specifically what she/he said?
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Re: [IrishElk] Devil's Due

Postby trebor » Tue Feb 06, 2018 1:08 am

Was hypnotism normally part of Isabella’s practise? If not, did the idea to try to hypnotise Jamie come to her because of the movie?

Did Jamie say something about one of her parents? Both of them? About someone else? Did Jamie ask to be hypnotised? Did she say something else that Isabella took as her asking to be hypnotised? Is the issue of parental consent relevant here?
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Re: [IrishElk] Devil's Due

Postby irishelk » Tue Feb 06, 2018 12:36 pm

trebor

Was hypnotism normally part of Isabella’s practise? Yes. If not, did the idea to try to hypnotise Jamie come to her because of the movie?

Did Jamie say something about one of her parents? Probably, exact wording irr. Both of them? About someone else? Did Jamie ask to be hypnotised? No. Did she say something else that Isabella took as her asking to be hypnotised? No. Is the issue of parental consent relevant here? No.
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Re: [IrishElk] Devil's Due

Postby invisiblemimsy » Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:35 pm

IrishElk I think you may have missed my post above Trebor’s...?
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Re: [IrishElk] Devil's Due

Postby irishelk » Wed Feb 14, 2018 4:54 pm

invisiblemimsy

Sorry about that!

Was this a false memory or suggestion which she planted in Jamie's mind? Following whatever it was she saw in the movie, she suspected Jamie had been abused? So she tried to establish this by asking leading questions of Jamie during therapy? His response confirmed what she suspected, or she thought it did, so she told the parents? This is all completely correct. Damn it, I could have spoiled this earlier had I read closer! ><

Do we need to work out specifically what she/he said?


*************************SPOILER

Just as mimsy says, Isabella is a child psychologist who has a session with the couple's child. She puts the child under hypnosis, and unfortunately, as was not uncommon in the earlier days of hypnosis, asks leading questions that end up planting a false memory in the child's head. Isabella, having just watched a horror movie, unconsciously asks questions that push the child's receptive mind toward ideas about violence and Satanic worship. When she reports these "uncovered" memories to the parents, each one believes that the other must be responsible for the abuse, and their fighting over it eventually leads to a divorce.

Incidentally, this type of situation (along with paranoia about metal music) is thought to be a large contributing factor to the Satanic Panic of the 1980s, where suburban parents feared there was a Satanic cult lurking around every corner to kidnap or corrupt their children.
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Re: [IrishElk] Devil's Due {SACRIFICED}

Postby invisiblemimsy » Wed Feb 14, 2018 5:20 pm

Brilliant puzzle. Thanks!
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