[JenBurdoo] Aids to Scouting

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[JenBurdoo] Aids to Scouting

Postby JenBurdoo » Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:31 pm

Singh and Robert are having a contest to see who has better vision. Singh points at a far-off hill and says he can see cattle. Robert can barely see them, but says he can see the cattle herder, though Singh cannot. Explain.
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Aids to Scouting

Postby Hobbsicle » Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:37 pm

Good to see you! I sent you a quick PM.
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Aids to Scouting

Postby JenBurdoo » Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:50 pm

Thanks! It's been a while, but I'll try to be more, well, present on the board this year.
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Aids to Scouting

Postby invisiblemimsy » Tue Jan 09, 2018 12:40 am

Is the cattle herder moving, and thus easier to detect with the naked eye?
Is the cattle herder a dog?
Are the names relevant?
Is it relevant that one of them is, presumably, English or American, while the other is Indian or Pakistani?
Is Singh, by his name, likely to be a Sikh, and if so, is this relevant?
Do either of them have an issue with their sight?
If so, does this involve colour-blindness? Or something similar to colour blindness?
Is this in Europe, Asia, Africa, Australia, N.America, S.America?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Aids to Scouting

Postby Earnest » Tue Jan 09, 2018 7:51 am

Did they look in the same direction? Did they both use just their eyes? Color relevants? Color blindness? The point from where they begin the contest? Was the heder near the cattle? Near them? Did Sight simply not notice the heder? Or he could barely see the heder? Did they begin the contest in something which was in movement? Was the heder covered by sonething? Is the position of R and S relevant (e.g. S's sight was covered by sonething?)? Heder = HAM?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Aids to Scouting

Postby GalFisk » Tue Jan 09, 2018 1:17 pm

Can Robert actually see the herder? Can he see the effect the herder is having on the animals?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Aids to Scouting

Postby JenBurdoo » Tue Jan 09, 2018 5:21 pm

Welcome, invisiblemimsy!

Is the cattle herder moving, and thus easier to detect with the naked eye? No.
Is the cattle herder a dog? No.
Are the names relevant? No.
Is it relevant that one of them is, presumably, English or American, while the other is Indian or Pakistani? No, though correct.
Is Singh, by his name, likely to be a Sikh, and if so, is this relevant? Yes but irr.
Do either of them have an issue with their sight? No.
If so, does this involve colour-blindness? Or something similar to colour blindness? No to both.
Is this in Europe, Asia, Africa, Australia, N.America, S.America? Assume Asia.

Did they look in the same direction? Yes. Did they both use just their eyes? Yes. Color relevant? No. Color blindness? No. The point from where they begin the contest? No. Was the herder near the cattle? Yes. Near them? No. Did Singh simply not notice the herder? No. Or he could barely see the herder? No. Did they begin the contest in something which was in movement? No. Was the herder covered by something? No. Is the position of R and S relevant (e.g. S's sight was covered by something?)? No. Herder = HAM? Assume yes.

Can Robert actually see the herder? Can he see the effect the herder is having on the animals? No to both.
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Aids to Scouting

Postby invisiblemimsy » Tue Jan 09, 2018 5:55 pm

Thanks for the welcome, Jen!
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Aids to Scouting

Postby Earnest » Tue Jan 09, 2018 6:08 pm

Welcome!

Can S see the herder? Or he just claimed that?
I mean...the contest has like a logic solution I think...if I claim that I see something that you cannot see, of course you cannot reply weather I'm true or not being you not able to see it. So let's say S claimed to see the heder (just guess there was one) and if there was he was able to win because R did not notice him at a first glance; if there is not he can assert to have won the competition because R was not able to see it. Right?

If not right...was there a judge able to see anything?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Aids to Scouting

Postby JenBurdoo » Tue Jan 09, 2018 6:52 pm

Can S see the herder? No. Or he just claimed that? No. Remember, R is the one who claimed to see the herder (though he did not).

I mean...the contest has like a logic solution I think...if I claim that I see something that you cannot see, of course you cannot reply weather I'm true or not being you not able to see it. So let's say S claimed to see the heder (just guess there was one) and if there was he was able to win because R did not notice him at a first glance; if there is not he can assert to have won the competition because R was not able to see it. Right? While R did claim to see something he did not, the herder was indeed present where he claimed to have seen him.
If not right...was there a judge able to see anything? Assume they checked afterwards and found R's assertion to be correct.
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Aids to Scouting

Postby Earnest » Tue Jan 09, 2018 7:31 pm

Well yes...I inverted the names...

So the question was...did R really saw the herder? Or...could R see the herder?

Were cattles and herder very far from them? Did they have a good sight? Relevant? Did they take their glasses off? Did R cheat?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Aids to Scouting

Postby biograd » Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:25 pm

You said that "his effect on the animals" was NOT what Robert saw of the herder, but was an effect on the cattle necessary for what Robert DID see? I'm imagining something along the lines of that it was easy to see from a distance where the cattle had grazed and where they hadn't (due to the grass being much shorter where they had), and that this allowed Robert to infer in what direction they were being led. Had the herder not been leading the cattle at the moment, could Robert still have determined where he was?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Aids to Scouting

Postby JenBurdoo » Wed Jan 10, 2018 2:33 am

So the question was...did R really saw the herder? No. Or...could R see the herder? No.

Were cattles and herder very far from them? Yes. Did they have a good sight? Yes. Relevant? Yes. Did they take their glasses off? No. Did R cheat? YMMV.

You said that "his effect on the animals" was NOT what Robert saw of the herder, but was an effect on the cattle necessary for what Robert DID see? No. I'm imagining something along the lines of that it was easy to see from a distance where the cattle had grazed and where they hadn't (due to the grass being much shorter where they had), and that this allowed Robert to infer in what direction they were being led. No, but you have the right idea. Had the herder not been leading the cattle at the moment, could Robert still have determined where he was? Again, you're on the right track.
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Aids to Scouting

Postby Acridian9 » Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:49 am

The disposition of the cattle on the hill relevant? another object on the hill? weather? the sun reflecting on something?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Aids to Scouting

Postby JenBurdoo » Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:18 pm

The disposition of the cattle on the hill relevant? Noish. another object on the hill? Yes. weather? Yes. the sun reflecting on something? No, but...
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Aids to Scouting

Postby GalFisk » Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:19 pm

Is the weather: sunny? Warm? Windy? Frosty? Snowy? Clear? Cloudy? Wet? Dangerous? Dewy?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Aids to Scouting

Postby JenBurdoo » Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:22 pm

Is the weather: sunny? This. Warm? This. Windy? Frosty? Snowy? Clear? And this. Cloudy? Wet? Dangerous? Dewy?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Aids to Scouting

Postby GalFisk » Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:23 pm

Heat ripples relevant? Is it calm? Is water relevant? Dust? Fire? The danger of fire?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Aids to Scouting

Postby JenBurdoo » Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:26 pm

Heat ripples relevant? Is it calm? Yes. Is water relevant? Dust? Fire? The danger of fire? No to the rest.
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Aids to Scouting

Postby GalFisk » Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:31 pm

Grass relevant? Trees? Dog(s)? Any animals apart from the sheep? Any humans apart from the herder? Fences? Would this work if the sun was not out? If the sun had gone down? Is the herder performing a relevant action in response to the weather? Is he sitting in the only shade available near his flock?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Aids to Scouting

Postby JenBurdoo » Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:14 pm

Grass relevant? No. Trees? Yes. Dog(s)? No. Any animals apart from the sheep? No. Any humans apart from the herder? No. Fences? No. Would this work if the sun was not out? No. If the sun had gone down? No. Is the herder performing a relevant action in response to the weather? Yes. Is he sitting in the only shade available near his flock? Yes.


Spoiler:


“…once I was having a match with a Shikari in Kashmir as to which of us could see farthest.

He pointed out a hillside some distance off, and asked me if I could see how many cattle there were grazing on it. It was only with difficulty that I could see any cattle at all, but presently I capped him by asking him if he could see the man in charge of the cattle. Now, I could not actually see this myself, but knowing that there must be a man with the herd, and that he would probably be up above them somewhere, and as there was a solitary tree above them (and it was a hot sunny day), I guessed he would be under this tree. A look through the glasses showed this surmise to be correct.”

- Robert Baden-Powell (founder of the Scouting movement)
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