[invisiblemimsy] The King's Pardon

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[invisiblemimsy] The King's Pardon

Postby invisiblemimsy » Sun Mar 18, 2018 3:48 pm

The King pardoned two condemned prisoners on condition they became guinea pigs in a scientific experiment. He expected them to die soon, but they lived twice as long as he did!

Based on a true story, so no googling please!
Last edited by invisiblemimsy on Tue Mar 20, 2018 12:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [invisiblemimsy] The King's Pardon

Postby Earnest » Sun Mar 18, 2018 4:11 pm

King relevant of which country? Twice as long = did the king took part at the experiment and they were able to live twuce the time he survived from the beginning of the experiment? Twice the years that the king lived? (E.g. they had double the age of the king and they died at the same time of the king so that we can say that they live twice as long as the king?) They survived to the experimebt?
Was it an hunting based experiment?

Guinea pigs like they become pray in hunting? Is the scientific experiment due to test their capabilities to survive? Did the king take part to the experimebt?
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Re: [invisiblemimsy] The King's Pardon

Postby invisiblemimsy » Sun Mar 18, 2018 4:31 pm

Earnest wrote:King relevant of which country? No Twice as long = did the king took part at the experiment and they were able to live twuce the time he survived from the beginning of the experiment? No, the King did not take part in the experiment, just the prisoners Twice the years that the king lived? (E.g. they had double the age of the king and they died at the same time of the king so that we can say that they live twice as long as the king?) The prisoners lived to their late 80's, the King died at about 40. Assume all 3 of them were fairly young when this started, perhaps in their 30's? They survived to the experimebt? Yes
Was it an hunting based experiment? No

Guinea pigs like they become pray in hunting? No Is the scientific experiment due to test their capabilities to survive? Yes, under the conditions of the experiment Did the king take part to the experimebt? No
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Re: [invisiblemimsy] The King's Pardon

Postby Enjay » Sun Mar 18, 2018 6:08 pm

Was the King's death related to the experiment?

Did the prisoners live as long as they did because of the experiment?

Did the two prisoners both die at the same time?

Did the experiment involve applying different conditions to each of the two prisoners and seeing which survived the longest? Applying the same conditions to both prisoners? Were the prisoners related? Twins? Relevant? Was the aim of the experiment to learn more about how the human body survives in certain conditions? About how to improve survival in those conditions?

Were the prisoners still taking part in the experiment when they eventually died? Did the experiment end when the king died?

Relevant what the prisoners died of? Old age? Something related to the experiment? Relevant what the king died of?
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Re: [invisiblemimsy] The King's Pardon

Postby invisiblemimsy » Sun Mar 18, 2018 6:40 pm

Enjay wrote:Was the King's death related to the experiment? No
Did the prisoners live as long as they did because of the experiment? Probably not, though some people might have believed so at the time.
Did the two prisoners both die at the same time? No

Did the experiment involve applying different conditions to each of the two prisoners and seeing which survived the longest? Yes, good question Applying the same conditions to both prisoners? General conditions were the same but one significant thing was different Were the prisoners related? Yes Twins? Yes Relevant? Yes, in the sense that
they were 'equal' apart from the significant thing
Was the aim of the experiment to learn more about how the human body survives in certain conditions? Yes About how to improve survival in those conditions? No

Were the prisoners still taking part in the experiment when they eventually died? Probably Did the experiment end when the king died? No

Relevant what the prisoners died of? Yes Old age? This Something related to the experiment? No Relevant what the king died of? He was assassinated,
but irrel.
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Re: [invisiblemimsy] The King's Pardon

Postby Enjay » Sun Mar 18, 2018 10:23 pm

Did the king expect the prisoners to die because of the experiment? Did he expect one to live longer than the other? Is it relevant what the twins were condemned for in the first place?

Did the king expect the prisoners to die of: disease? Murder? Suicide? Accident? Poisoning? Drowning? Blunt force trauma? Suffocation?

Did the king know that the prisoners had survived longer than expected?

Did something go wrong with the experimental conditions which allowed the prisoners to survive? Did the prisoners do something to ensure their survival? Was the king's belief that the prisoners would die soon based on a wrong belief? Would any reasonable person have also expected the prisoners to die soon?

Was the experiment based on modern principles of science? Superstition or magic relevant? Is the time period this takes place in relevant? Were the prisoners adults? Male? Relevant?
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Re: [invisiblemimsy] The King's Pardon

Postby JenBurdoo » Sun Mar 18, 2018 10:27 pm

Pretty sure I know this one, see PM.
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Re: [invisiblemimsy] The King's Pardon

Postby invisiblemimsy » Mon Mar 19, 2018 12:10 am

Enjay wrote:Did the king expect the prisoners to die because of the experiment? Probably, and he certainly expected them to suffer Did he expect one to live longer than the other? Yes Is it relevant what the twins were condemned for in the first place? No

Did the king expect the prisoners to die of: disease? Possibly this Murder? Suicide? Accident? Poisoning? Probably this Drowning? Blunt force trauma? Suffocation?

Did the king know that the prisoners had survived longer than expected? Yes, although he didn't know the full extent of their survival as he died much earlier than they did.

Did something go wrong with the experimental conditions which allowed the prisoners to survive? No Did the prisoners do something to ensure their survival? No Was the king's belief that the prisoners would die soon based on a wrong belief? Yes Would any reasonable person have also expected the prisoners to die soon? Unlikely, but possibly some did.

Was the experiment based on modern principles of science? To a small extent I think, but can you be more specific? Superstition or magic relevant? No Is the time period this takes place in relevant? Yes Were the prisoners adults? Yes Male? Yes Relevant? This would've still worked with women
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Re: [invisiblemimsy] The King's Pardon

Postby invisiblemimsy » Mon Mar 19, 2018 12:12 am

JenBurdoo wrote:Pretty sure I know this one, see PM. No, sorry
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Re: [invisiblemimsy] The King's Pardon

Postby wwhere » Mon Mar 19, 2018 1:25 pm

Is a religious belief relevant?
Did this happen in XXc? XIXc? XVIII? XVII? XVI? XV?
Were the prisoners fed differently one from another? Maybe one eating only meat, another only vegetables, something like that?
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Re: [invisiblemimsy] The King's Pardon

Postby invisiblemimsy » Mon Mar 19, 2018 2:33 pm

wwhere wrote:Is a religious belief relevant? No
Did this happen in XXc? XIXc? XVIII? 18th Century XVII? XVI? XV?
Were the prisoners fed differently one from another? Yes Maybe one eating only meat, another only vegetables, But not this something like that? Yes
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Re: [invisiblemimsy] The King's Pardon

Postby GalFisk » Mon Mar 19, 2018 4:34 pm

Was one fed: something poisonous? Something suspected to be poisonous at the time? Tomatoes? A plant? Animal? Plant product? Animal product? A food ingredient? A mineral? A liquid? Did one inhale a relevant gas? Contagious disease relevant? Deficiency disease? Scurvy? Rickets? Was one fed an especially monotonous diet?
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Re: [invisiblemimsy] The King's Pardon

Postby invisiblemimsy » Mon Mar 19, 2018 4:47 pm

GalFisk wrote:Was one fed: something poisonous? No Something suspected to be poisonous at the time? yes Tomatoes? No A plant? Yes Animal? No Plant product? yes Animal product? No A food ingredient? Yes A mineral? No A liquid? Yes Did one inhale a relevant gas? Contagious disease relevant? Deficiency disease? Scurvy? Rickets? Was one fed an especially monotonous diet? No to the rest
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Re: [invisiblemimsy] The King's Pardon

Postby GalFisk » Mon Mar 19, 2018 4:52 pm

A liquid: juice? Sap? Water? Nectar? Oil? Tea? Something sugary? Bitter? Something from a nut? Seed? Fruit? Berry? Stem? Root? Flower? Leaf? Needle?
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Re: [invisiblemimsy] The King's Pardon

Postby invisiblemimsy » Mon Mar 19, 2018 5:14 pm

GalFisk wrote:A liquid: yes juice? Sap? Water? Nectar? Oil? Tea? yes Something sugary? Bitter? Something from a nut? Seed? yes Fruit? yes Berry? yes Stem? Root? Flower? Leaf? Needle?No to the rest
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Re: [invisiblemimsy] The King's Pardon

Postby GalFisk » Mon Mar 19, 2018 5:59 pm

Coffee? Is the plant a tree? Bush? Flower? Palm tree? Is it native to: Australia? Oceania? Asia? Europe? N. America? S. America? Is it actually toxic? Is it tasty? Does it have any medical effects?
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Re: [invisiblemimsy] The King's Pardon

Postby invisiblemimsy » Mon Mar 19, 2018 7:01 pm

GalFisk wrote:Coffee? This Is the plant a tree? Bush? Flower? Palm tree? Is it native to: Australia? Oceania? Asia? Europe? N. America? S. America? Is it actually toxic? Not within certain parameters Is it tasty? Yes Does it have any medical effects? Can do



I think you've pretty much got it... do you want to put it all together?
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Re: [invisiblemimsy] The King's Pardon

Postby GalFisk » Tue Mar 20, 2018 8:21 am

The king pardoned twin prisoners, on the condition that he could test the toxic effects of coffee on one of them. Was it a blind test? Double blind? In any case, coffee turned out not to be toxic, while being a king was deadly in its own way, so they both outlived him.
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Re: [invisiblemimsy] The King's Pardon

Postby invisiblemimsy » Tue Mar 20, 2018 12:30 pm

GalFisk wrote:The king pardoned twin prisoners, on the condition that he could test the toxic effects of coffee on one of them. YES, and also... Was it a blind test? Double blind? NO In any case, coffee turned out not to be toxic, YES while being a king was deadly in its own way, so they both outlived him. YES


******************************$SPOILER********************

Gustav 3 of Sweden was of the firm belief that coffee was poisonous, or at least detrimental to health. In what became known as 'The first Swedish clinical trial', he made one twin consume a large amount of coffee for the rest of his life, while the other twin drank tea. He fully expected the coffee twin to die quickly, and possibly the tea twin too, but both lived to a ripe old age.
See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gustav_II ... experiment

Well done to GalFisk for the solve, and to everyone else who took part!
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