[invisiblemimsy] Hunny

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[invisiblemimsy] Hunny

Postby invisiblemimsy » Thu Mar 29, 2018 1:07 pm

Half a swarm of bees went to collect hunny from a mustard field. Three quarters of the rest went to the rose garden and the remaining ten stayed at home to guard the hive.
<3 and hunny,

Winnie the Pooh
Last edited by invisiblemimsy on Fri Apr 06, 2018 3:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [invisiblemimsy] Hunny

Postby Zanreo » Thu Mar 29, 2018 7:40 pm

Bees - the actual insect? Numbers of bees going to each place relevant? The number of bees in total? Relevant that it's specifically a mustard field? A rose garden?

After doing some simple math... that would be 30 bees going to the rose garden? And 40 going to the mustard field? 80 bees in total?
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Re: [invisiblemimsy] Hunny

Postby invisiblemimsy » Thu Mar 29, 2018 7:57 pm

Zanreo wrote:Bees - the actual insect? Yes Numbers of bees going to each place relevant? Yes The number of bees in total? Yes Relevant that it's specifically a mustard field? No A rose garden? No

After doing some simple math... that would be 30 bees going to the rose garden? And 40 going to the mustard field? 80 bees in total? Correct, but not the answer to this puzzle
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Re: [invisiblemimsy] Hunny

Postby Zanreo » Thu Mar 29, 2018 8:18 pm

I'm assuming part of the puzzle is finding out what the "question" here is too?
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Re: [invisiblemimsy] Hunny

Postby invisiblemimsy » Thu Mar 29, 2018 8:25 pm

Zanreo wrote:I'm assuming part of the puzzle is finding out what the "question" here is too? Yes
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Re: [invisiblemimsy] Hunny

Postby Zanreo » Fri Mar 30, 2018 3:05 am

Relevant that there's 3 different "groups" of bees? That 2 of the groups went to different places?
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Re: [invisiblemimsy] Hunny

Postby invisiblemimsy » Fri Mar 30, 2018 5:11 am

Zanreo wrote:Relevant that there's 3 different "groups" of bees? That 2 of the groups went to different places? Noish
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Re: [invisiblemimsy] Hunny

Postby Earnest » Fri Mar 30, 2018 6:58 am

Is this a quote from Winne the Pooh? Is actually having seen the cartoon relevant for solving the puzzle? P.s. cannot see the smiles at the sentece before the last one, are them relevant? (I just see "<3 and hunny") to be sure...winnie the pooh = the cartoon bear and not a nickname or something like that right?

Not really remembering the winnie the pooh cartoon but I remember that he liked honey right? So did he want to steal honey from bees? Was him counting the number of bees? Was him talking to someone else? ...the tiger? (Don't remember the name) the boy? Was winnie talking or someone else? relevant why he was counting bees (btw was him counting the bees? Did someone else?)? Was him answering a question? Was the hive human made? Is it a metaphor with bees?
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Re: [invisiblemimsy] Hunny

Postby invisiblemimsy » Fri Mar 30, 2018 1:22 pm

Earnest wrote:Is this a quote from Winne the Pooh? No Is actually having seen the cartoon relevant for solving the puzzle? Not really P.s. cannot see the smiles at the sentece before the last one, are them relevant? (I just see "<3 and hunny") It's meant to be a heart, i.e. 'love and hunny' but it seems there isn't a heart emoticon on this platform. to be sure...winnie the pooh = the cartoon bear and not a nickname or something like that right? Correct ... and fyi the cartoon is based on a series of books written in the 1920s 8-)

Not really remembering the winnie the pooh cartoon but I remember that he liked honey right? Yes So did he want to steal honey from bees? Usually he did, but not in this puzzle Was him counting the number of bees? Yesish Was him talking to someone else? Yes -
the good people of this forum!
...the tiger? (Don't remember the name) the boy? No, and his name was Tigger Was winnie talking or someone else? Winnie the Pooh aka Pooh Bear
relevant why he was counting bees Only for the purposes of this puzzle (btw was him counting the bees? Irrel Did someone else?)? Irrel Was him answering a question? Irrel Was the hive human made? Yes Is it a metaphor with bees? No
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Re: [invisiblemimsy] Hunny

Postby Earnest » Fri Mar 30, 2018 6:01 pm

Ok...I'm realizing that you are quite a supporter of Winnie the Pooh so I would like to say sorry in advance for any stupid question/comment on the poor bear...I mean...I respect Winne xD

Relevant that he likes honey? Is your profile image (a vee indeed) relevant? Was Winnie the Pooh trying to tell us where the bees went? How many bees there are? Is the following path bee --> honey the main logic behind what Winnie the Pooh is telling us? Is honey relevant? Do we need to find out honey? Bees? Is this a metaphor at all? Are there bees that are more relevant than others? The ones in yhe hive? Can those bees actually be seen by us in the forum? By people in general? Is any of these relevant for solving the puzzle: pollen? Flowers? Spring? Honey? Insects? Bees? Profile images? The forum? The number 80?

If the latter, does the number of bees relevantly correspond to sonething related to this forum? To somethibg else?

Relevant what Pooh Bear was doing while talking with us? Observing bees? Relevant how he knew exactly where the bees were? Did he follow them?
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Re: [invisiblemimsy] Hunny

Postby invisiblemimsy » Fri Mar 30, 2018 7:15 pm

Earnest wrote:Ok...I'm realizing that you are quite a supporter of Winnie the Pooh so I would like to say sorry in advance for any stupid question/comment on the poor bear...I mean...I respect Winne xD Lol, and I'm sure Winnie respects you too, Earnest!

Relevant that he likes honey? Yes, and he knows lots about honey and bees Is your profile image (a vee indeed) relevant? No, I just like bees too Was Winnie the Pooh trying to tell us where the bees went? Yope How many bees there are? Yope and FA Is the following path bee --> honey the main logic behind what Winnie the Pooh is telling us? I'm not sure I understand this question, can you reframe it pls? Is honey relevant? Yes Do we need to find out honey? Yes Bees? Yes Is this a metaphor at all? No Are there bees that are more relevant than others? They're all relevant but... The ones in yhe hive? These are more relevant than the others, explore. Can those bees actually be seen by us in the forum? Well, these ones are just puzzle bees :D By people in general? Same answer really Is any of these relevant for solving the puzzle: pollen? Yes Flowers? Yes Spring? Irrel Honey?Yes Insects? Yes Bees? Yes Profile images? No The forum? NoThe number 80? In terms of the reasons why it's the wrong answer,
yes


If the latter, does the number of bees relevantly correspond to sonething related to this forum? No To somethibg else? Not the exact number

Relevant what Pooh Bear was doing while talking with us? No, he was just hanging out on the forum Observing bees? Irrel Relevant how he knew exactly where the bees were? Not specifically, but it's relevant that he knows about bee behaviour Did he follow them? It's relevant that he often follows bees, but he knows that these ones are just puzzle bees
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Re: [invisiblemimsy] Hunny

Postby Earnest » Fri Mar 30, 2018 7:55 pm

Is there pollen in the hive? Are other bees than those remaining in the hive coming back to the hive? If so periodically (e.g. every hour/second/minute)? Just once? Are we talking about an avtual hive? I mean is he describing something that he is observing? Or something he observed? Is it relevant the fact that he used fractions?

Relevant where the hive was? Who constructed it? Are bees in the hive more relevant because they guard pollen? The Queen bee? Relevant which bees remained to the hive? Were they chosen by someone? By the other bees? By Winnie the Pooh? Relevant where the queen bee is/was? Are the bees which remained to guard the hive relevant mainly because there were ten of them? Were them the only bees in the hive? Relevant? Bees' eggs relevant? Geometry of hives relevant? Was honey produced in the hive? If so was it sold? Had Winnie the Pooh something to do with that honey? With those bees?

Relevant that bees and wasps are usually considered as enemies? Are wasps relevant at all? Do we need to figure out why the 80 bees divided themselves in such a way?
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Re: [invisiblemimsy] Hunny

Postby invisiblemimsy » Fri Mar 30, 2018 8:27 pm

Earnest wrote:Is there pollen in the hive? Yes Are other bees than those remaining in the hive coming back to the hive? Yes If so periodically (e.g. every hour/second/minute)? The bees come back when they're loaded up, then go back out again. They don't arrive or leave all at once.
Just once? They do it pretty much continually during daylight hours in the spring and summer, if the weather is good enough Are we talking about an avtual hive? Assume yes I mean is he describing something that he is observing? NO, explore puzzle statement Or something he observed? Is it relevant the fact that he used fractions? Not really

Relevant where the hive was? Assume somewhere favourable to bees Who constructed it? Assume the beekeeper Are bees in the hive more relevant because they guard pollen? There are guard bees yes, they guard the hive in general not just the pollen. There are other bee jobs tooThe Queen bee? Especially this Relevant which bees remained to the hive? Yes Were they chosen by someone? By the other bees? By the other bees and the natural order of things By Winnie the Pooh? No Relevant where the queen bee is/was? Yes, very much so Are the bees which remained to guard the hive relevant mainly because there were ten of them? F/A Were them the only bees in the hive? No Relevant? Yes Bees' eggs relevant? yes but not so much in relation to this puzzle Geometry of hives relevant? No Was honey produced in the hive? Yes If so was it sold? Irrel Had Winnie the Pooh something to do with that honey? No With those bees? No

Relevant that bees and wasps are usually considered as enemies? YES! Are wasps relevant at all? Yesish Do we need to figure out why the 80 bees divided themselves in such a way? FA
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Re: [invisiblemimsy] Hunny

Postby Earnest » Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:47 am

Did bees actually divided in auch a way? Was the one of Pooh a wrong answer to a question? A conjecture? Is the relevance of contrasting relation between bees and wasps involved in the fact that wasps were coming to the hive? They were already in the hive? They hided themselves among the bees? Had the wasps an hive in the nearby of the bees' hive?

Is the swarm composed in total by 80 bees? Were there more mees in total? I mean...are the fractions (half, 3/4 ...) referred just to a part of the total number of bees right? So there were more than 80 bees in total right? Relevant? Are the ten bees remaining mostly required to fight agains potential enemies? Did they have to actually fight against wasps/other enemies? Was it a rainy day? Was it about to rain? Did they stay in the hive also for other reasons a part from guarding the hive (e.g. in case other bees were not able to come back)?
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Re: [invisiblemimsy] Hunny

Postby invisiblemimsy » Sat Mar 31, 2018 8:27 pm

Earnest wrote:Did bees actually divided in auch a way? Noish... they would have divided, but there's something fundamentally wrong with the puzzle statement Was the one of Pooh a wrong answer to a question? Since Pooh is a big fan of bees and has studied them closely, he would know this when he made the puzzle A conjecture? Yes, that's the kind of puzzle it is Is the relevance of contrasting relation between bees and wasps involved in the fact that wasps were coming to the hive? Yes They were already in the hive? No, but... They hided themselves among the bees? No, that would be impossible since bees know that wasps are not bees. Had the wasps an hive in the nearby of the bees' hive? They would probably have a nest nearby, certainly within a radius of a mile or so

Is the swarm composed in total by 80 bees? NO! Were there more mees in total? YES! I mean...are the fractions (half, 3/4 ...) referred just to a part of the total number of bees right? Yes, the fractions are kinda irrelevant So there were more than 80 bees in total right? YES Relevant? Very much so Are the ten bees remaining mostly required to fight agains potential enemies? Yes, but... Did they have to actually fight against wasps/other enemies? Some do, but... Was it a rainy day? Unlikely, given that some of the bees were out foraging Was it about to rain? Unlikely, for the same reason Did they stay in the hive also for other reasons a part from guarding the hive YES (e.g. in case other bees were not able to come back)? But not this


Great questions, Earnest
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Re: [invisiblemimsy] Hunny

Postby Earnest » Sun Apr 01, 2018 7:39 am

The relevant hive is one right? Or more hives?
Were the ten bees also encharged of giving the alarm in case of a wasp attack? Call the other bees? Distract the wasps? Winnie said that they stayed home to guard the hive which does not imply necessarily that they stayed at the hive...so did they stay inside the hive? Moreover...Winnie was able to see that ten of the bees stayed home so..or he observed exactly the swarm seoarating in such a way or he conjectured the fractions just observing that exactly ten bees remained right? So...were the ten bees perfectly visible ? Did they remain outside the hive? Did they fly outside the hive? Were they meant to attack the wasps? To lead the wasps away from the hive?
To transfer the bees in the hive in another hive? I mean...their main objective was not to fight agains the wasps right? Or at least just in an extreme case? Did they undertake a lateral action? Did they know wasps were coming? Did tge one in mustard field and rose garden knew it too? Did they want to surprise the wasps? Were the ten a bait? Relevant what wasps wanted from bees? Honey? Bees'eggs?

Was Winnie about to help the bees? (I mean...he likes honey and just bees produce honey)
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Re: [invisiblemimsy] Hunny

Postby invisiblemimsy » Mon Apr 02, 2018 10:10 pm

Earnest wrote:The relevant hive is one right? Yes Or more hives?
Were the ten bees also encharged of giving the alarm in case of a wasp attack? Partly this but FA Call the other bees? Partly this Distract the wasps? No Winnie said that they stayed home to guard the hive which does not imply necessarily that they stayed at the hive...so did they stay inside the hive? Yes, inside or immediately outside the hive, but same FA
Moreover...Winnie was able to see that ten of the bees stayed home so.. or he observed exactly the swarm seoarating in such a way or he conjectured the fractions just observing that exactly ten bees remained right? So...were the ten bees perfectly visible ? All of this is No and FA Did they remain outside the hive? Yes, some were inside and some were outside Did they fly outside the hive? Yes, some did Were they meant to attack the wasps? Yes, and some did To lead the wasps away from the hive? No, but at some point the wasps which had not been killed would have given up and flown away
To transfer the bees in the hive in another hive? No I mean...their main objective was not to fight agains the wasps right? Their main objective was to stop all the wasps from entering the hive Or at least just in an extreme case? Even one wasp would be treated as an enemy Did they undertake a lateral action? Did they know wasps were coming? At some point they knew... but they would already be on guard just in case Did tge one in mustard field and rose garden knew it too? Probably not but they would find out as soon as they flew back to the hive Did they want to surprise the wasps? No, they were just ready to defend the hive all the time Were the ten a bait? NO and same FA -
explore
Relevant what wasps wanted from bees? Honey? Bees'eggs? Both, but irrel

Was Winnie about to help the bees? (I mean...he likes honey and just bees produce honey)No, Winnie is just a friendly observer!
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Re: [invisiblemimsy] Hunny

Postby Acridian9 » Tue Apr 03, 2018 2:02 am

Is the FA above that the bees are ten?
Is a subset of ten bees relevant?
Was there an actual attack by wasps? Were there casualties among guarding bees? Relevant?
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Re: [invisiblemimsy] Hunny

Postby invisiblemimsy » Tue Apr 03, 2018 3:08 am

Acridian9 wrote:Is the FA above that the bees are ten? Yes
Is a subset of ten bees relevant? No
Was there an actual attack by wasps? Assume yes Were there casualties among guarding bees? probably some Relevant? yes
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Re: [invisiblemimsy] Hunny

Postby Acridian9 » Wed Apr 04, 2018 9:44 am

Is the queen inside the hive? are the bees swarming? are they rising a new queen?

is there something relevant to the puzzle but not directly related to bees?

Is Winnie able to count only up to 10? :D
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Re: [invisiblemimsy] Hunny

Postby invisiblemimsy » Wed Apr 04, 2018 12:54 pm

Acridian9 wrote:Is the queen inside the hive? YES are the bees swarming? Assume not at the moment, however the nature of swarming is tangentially relevant to this puzzle and it might help to explore are they rising a new queen? Assume no or irrel

is there something relevant to the puzzle but not directly related to bees?
Yes, although it is to do with the bees AND the puzzle statement... near the beginning, Zanreo said: "I'm assuming part of the puzzle is finding out what the "question" here is too?" and my answer was YES.

Is Winnie able to count only up to 10? :D :lol: No, assume he can count
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Re: [invisiblemimsy] Hunny

Postby Earnest » Thu Apr 05, 2018 6:17 am

As far as I've understood the 3/4 of the rest do not necessarily refer to the swarm right? Hence one cannot say there are 80 bees for sure. Am I right? If not, was Winnie counting a specific set of bees? Relevant how he was able to recognize them? Was he used to observe the hive? Did he know exactly how many bees there were in the hive? Like 80 + something in the order of dozens? Hundreds? Did he recognize the 80 bees at a first glance? When he observed them were they already split into the groups described? Relevant?
Relevant where the hive was placed? Were the fields very far from the hive? Relevant?

Is the question something which implies knowing the total number of bees a part from the 80? Did Winnie want to know how many honey can be produced? Does the question involve wasps? How many bees can beat n wasps? Is the questions of the type "how many...to do something?" ? Royal jelly relevant? Is it a retoric question? Advertising relevant? E.g. picture of winnie on cereals
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Re: [invisiblemimsy] Hunny

Postby invisiblemimsy » Thu Apr 05, 2018 10:57 pm

Earnest wrote:As far as I've understood the 3/4 of the rest do not necessarily refer to the swarm right? Yes, but... Hence one cannot say there are 80 bees for sure. Am I right? You are right that the number of bees is not 80, because the puzzle statement is incorrect.If not, was Winnie counting a specific set of bees? He was counting the bees that lived in that one hive... but only very roughly because... see below Relevant how he was able to recognize them? He knew all the bees belonged to the hive, and he could guess roughly what proportion went wherever Was he used to observe the hive? Yes Did he know exactly how many bees there were in the hive? Yes,
but only roughly
Like 80 + something in the order of dozens? Hundreds? Invoking the LTPF list of numbers: About 40 thousand! Did he recognize the 80 bees at a first glance? See previousWhen he observed them were they already split into the groups described? Relevant? Mostly irrel... he just watched as they came out of the hive and flew off to the various locations
Relevant where the hive was placed? Were the fields very far from the hive? Relevant? Assume the locations were nearby, around the hive

Is the question something which implies knowing the total number of bees a part from the 80? Well, you now know there are 40 thousand of them. Did Winnie want to know how many honey can be produced? He already knew... BUT GOOD QUESTION! There is something relevant to the puzzle connected with making honey. Does the question involve wasps? Yes, as previouslyHow many bees can beat n wasps? Also good question - you need lots of bees to fight even one wasp to stop the wasp stealing honey and eggs and killing bees... and wasps come quite often Is the questions of the type "how many...to do something?" ? Yes Royal jelly relevant? Not to this puzzle Is it a retoric question? Advertising relevant? E.g. picture of winnie on cereals No to these


I'll put a recap up soon.
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Re: [invisiblemimsy] Hunny

Postby Earnest » Fri Apr 06, 2018 6:41 am

So...there are 40000 bees but Winnie roughly guessed a very lower number right? (With ten he meant 10 and not 10 thousands or similar right?). Making honey is relevant and lots of bees are necessary to fight one wasp.

Is Winnie more interested on the proportions of bees or on the real number of bees in the hive? I mean the proportion of bees which stayed in the hive/go to the fields ? Relevant how many time do bees need to maoe honey? Is he planning something for the future and was studying the strategy the bees have to defend themselves? Relevant the analogy "wasps steal honey as well as Winnie"? Is the fact that bees sting relevant? The time in which bees can organize themself to beat wasps? The fact that if the bees fight wasps they are not "focused" on producing honey? Relevant the time needed to produce honey?

Did Winnie want to help bees? Like destroying wasps'hive? is he concerned for bees/honey?
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Re: [invisiblemimsy] Hunny

Postby invisiblemimsy » Fri Apr 06, 2018 1:03 pm

So...there are 40000 bees but Winnie roughly guessed a very lower number right?No,
I probably should have worded that differently, I may have confused you.
(With ten he meant 10 and not 10 thousands or similar right?). There ARE approximately 40,000 bees, it's just that you (or me, or Winnie) couldn't say the exact number... Winnie KNEW there were approximately 40,000 bees. Making honey is relevant and lots of bees are necessary to fight one wasp. correct

Is Winnie more interested on the proportions of bees or on the real number of bees in the hive? More the proportions, really I mean the proportion of bees which stayed in the hive/go to the fields ? Yes...

Relevant how many time do bees need to maoe honey? Not in this puzzle Is he planning something for the future and was studying the strategy the bees have to defend themselves? Relevant the analogy "wasps steal honey as well as Winnie"? Lol, IRREL - just in the Winnie the Pooh books, Winnie often steals the honey from the bees which live in a hole in a tree. In this puzzle, Winnie doesn't "steal" the honey Is the fact that bees sting relevant? It's relevant to the wasps - because if the bees sting them, they die. The time in which bees can organize themself to beat wasps? The guard bees are ready at any time to fight invading wasps The fact that if the bees fight wasps they are not "focused" on producing honey? Irrel Relevant the time needed to produce honey? No

Did Winnie want to help bees? Yes but irrel to the puzzle Like destroying wasps'hive? No, he wouldn't do that, he's a nice bear! is he concerned for bees/honey? Yes very much so, the bees are his friends


You can now work out how many bees did what, since you know that "80 bees" = 40,000 bees.
And then I will $POIL
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Re: [invisiblemimsy] Hunny

Postby Earnest » Fri Apr 06, 2018 1:55 pm

So...how many bees survived something? How many bees are needed to do something? How many bees are necessary for the hive to survive (since he is concerned to proportions I thought something like he was listing the main issues pf bees and see if there was a sufficient number to solve all of them)? How many bees more are necessary to the hive?

Is exactly 40000 the answer? Is 40000 a sufficient number to do "what we need to discover"? Does Winnie know the answer?

Did he actually want to "construct" an hive and try to figure out how many bees were necessary?
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Re: [invisiblemimsy] Hunny

Postby invisiblemimsy » Fri Apr 06, 2018 3:00 pm

Earnest wrote:So...how many bees survived something? How many bees are needed to do something? How many bees are necessary for the hive to survive (since he is concerned to proportions I thought something like he was listing the main issues pf bees and see if there was a sufficient number to solve all of them)? How many bees more are necessary to the hive?

Is exactly 40000 the answer? Is 40000 a sufficient number to do "what we need to discover"? Does Winnie know the answer?

Did he actually want to "construct" an hive and try to figure out how many bees were necessary?


Ah, sorry, I can see I've confused you now. Sorry! Basically, you've got it, and I was being a bit mean asking you to do the maths! So I'll $POIL it now anyway...




******************[$POILER]********************

Although I am a bear of very little brain, after many years of climbing trees and stealing hunny, I can say that bees don’t collect hunny, unless they are very silly bees! They collect nectar, and they make that into hunny when they get back! But you guessed that, I'm sure!

Zanreo said there were 80 bees, but I played a trick on you with the numbers - I am a silly bear sometimes! To start with, 80 bees are not enough to be a swarm! If you only leave 10 bees to guard the hive, you will have no hunny left when you get back, and probably no bees! Wasps will try to steal hunny, eggs and pupae.

So the real numbers are:
40,000 bees in the hive to begin with
20,000 went to the mustard field (to collect mustard nectar)
15,000 went to the rose garden (to collect rose nectar)
5,000 stayed at home (to guard the hive from wasps, and to look after the Queen and the baby bees).

Love and hunny,
Pooh Bear.


P.S. INTERESTING FACT: You might like to know that the bees are really only called a "swarm" when they are swarming... which is when they leave the hive and look for a new home. At that time, they won't be collecting anything - they'll be focussing their attention on finding somewhere suitable to live... like inside a hollow tree. They only do this when there are too many for the old hive. Then they raise a new Queen who stays behind with half the bees while the other half move on with the old Queen.

A group of bees is usually called a "nest" or a "hive".
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Re: [invisiblemimsy] Hunny [*BUZZED*]

Postby Earnest » Fri Apr 06, 2018 3:09 pm

Very interesting...so...I did not get you want us to play with math...anyway...nice puzzle!
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Re: [invisiblemimsy] Hunny [*BUZZED*]

Postby invisiblemimsy » Fri Apr 06, 2018 7:02 pm

Well, it was a combination of both... and thanks.
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