[invisiblemimsy] Monkey Puzzle

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[invisiblemimsy] Monkey Puzzle

Postby invisiblemimsy » Fri Apr 06, 2018 7:55 pm

My kitten, Louie, went missing a few days ago. In this morning's paper, I discovered an ad which read, White kitten found, enquire 5 Monkey Close, Kingsford. I checked the map and set off, but when I got there, there was no house - in fact there was no Monkey Close! Just a field with 5 trees at the end. Up in the branches of one of the trees was my kitten!

Where did Monkey Close go?
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Re: [invisiblemimsy] Monkey Puzzle

Postby Zanreo » Fri Apr 06, 2018 10:01 pm

Was "Monkey Close" a misread part of the text that actually said something else? Something that looked like an actual monkey relevant? Relevant that it's "5 Monkey Close" and 5 trees? Would you still be able to find the right tree if it said 4 Monkey Close? Did you find the right tree right away?
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Re: [invisiblemimsy] Monkey Puzzle

Postby invisiblemimsy » Fri Apr 06, 2018 10:17 pm

Zanreo wrote:Was "Monkey Close" a misread part of the text that actually said something else? No Something that looked like an actual monkey relevant? No Relevant that it's "5 Monkey Close" and 5 trees? No Would you still be able to find the right tree if it said 4 Monkey Close? Yes Did you find the right tree right away? Yes, it was easy enough to see the kitten in the tree.
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Re: [invisiblemimsy] Monkey Puzzle

Postby Earnest » Sat Apr 07, 2018 7:38 am

First question...were you KingLouie?
To be sure...Louie went missing = you did not know where your real (made of skin and bones) pet went and you made efforts in order to find him?

Is the fact that Monkeys usually climb the trees relevant? So...let's analyse the ad:"White kitten found, enquire 5 Monkey Close, Kingsford." --> were you sure that the "white kitten" was referred to your cat? Relevant in which part of the morning paper the ad was? Was it among other ads? Relevant which were the other ads? "Monkey close" = a place? A name? A fictitious place? The name of someone? Of an animal? Did you find out the place just by going to Kingsford (is actually kingsford a place? If not relevant how you found out the place on the map?)? Is 5 an adress? Did it help to better identify the place?
Did you expect to find an house? Did you know where you were going? Did you expect to find your cat there? Did you know Monkey close? Were the 5 trees very tall? Did Louie climb the trees alone? Was there something/someone on the trees a part from Louie? Was the place abandoned? Was it graveyard? Was it a field with nothing else in between a part from the 5 trees at the end? Was it a garden?

The question is "where did MC go"...so did you realize where he went as soon as you reached the place? Is Monkey close a human? Someone related to you? An animal? Another name for Louie? Relevant how you were able to take Louie down of the tree? Did you call someone to help you? Or was the tree actually a small tree
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Re: [invisiblemimsy] Monkey Puzzle

Postby invisiblemimsy » Sat Apr 07, 2018 10:33 am

Earnest wrote:First question...were you KingLouie? No :lol:
To be sure...Louie went missing = you did not know where your real (made of skin and bones) pet went and you made efforts in order to find him? Yes

Is the fact that Monkeys usually climb the trees relevant? Assume there is no significant relevance to monkeys in this puzzle So...let's analyse the ad:"White kitten found, enquire 5 Monkey Close, Kingsford." --> were you sure that the "white kitten" was referred to your cat? Assume yes Relevant in which part of the morning paper the ad was? Was it among other ads? Relevant which were the other ads? all irrel "Monkey close" = a place? A name? A fictitious place? this, as it turned out The name of someone? Of an animal? Did you find out the place just by going to Kingsford (is actually kingsford a place? Assume I live somewhere in or near Kingsford but didn't know where Monkey CLose was If not relevant how you found out the place on the map?)? Yes, assume I opened the map, looked for and found Monkey Close Kingsford Is 5 an adress? Yes Did it help to better identify the place? Yes, or it should have done
Did you expect to find an house? Yes Did you know where you were going? After I'd checked the map, yes Did you expect to find your cat there? Yes Did you know Monkey close? No Were the 5 trees very tall? Did Louie climb the trees alone? Was there something/someone on the trees a part from Louie? Was the place abandoned? Was it graveyard? All no or irrel Was it a field with nothing else in between a part from the 5 trees at the end? Yes Was it a garden? No

The question is "where did MC go"...so did you realize where he went as soon as you reached the place? Assume I was puzzled that there was no Monkey Close but eventually worked it out Is Monkey close a human? Someone related to you? An animal? Another name for Louie? No to these...
Monkey close was simply an address (a non-existant one, as it turned out)
Relevant how you were able to take Louie down of the tree? Did you call someone to help you? Or was the tree actually a small tree All irrel
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Re: [invisiblemimsy] Monkey Puzzle

Postby Earnest » Sat Apr 07, 2018 12:14 pm

So have you ever seen the place called "Monkey close"? I mean...if you live in the nearby I assume you actually did right? Did you realize where you were going while you were going in that place following the map?...to be sure "close" = a street? A private street? Was "Monkey close" not in the map because actually there was not Monkey close in the moment the map had been made? Was "monkey close" made recently? Was there something instead if the field before? Did you expect to see a field in that place?

Was it a joke made to you by someone? A surprise? Did Monkey close go near your house? Is it very very close to your house? Was it written "Monkey close"? Relevant that the word "monkey "had been used? Is monkey the animal? Relevant? Was it written "Monkey"? Or was is it like mon-key? Monk-ey? Relevant who put the ad? Was there written? Did the writer of the ad know the owner of the cat? If not did he elaborate a way to find it out? Was the ad meant to be fictitious? Meant for people living in the nearby? Meant to fool someone? You? To avoid something to happen? Was Louie put on the tree by someone?

WAG --> had Louie a collar in which his name was written so that who found it was able to know his name? If so did he put in the ad a fictitious place on purpose so that the one who would have look for the cat in the nearby would have called its name and he would have been able to recognize that the one who is looking for him was actually the true owner of the cat?...don't know if it is clear..sorry
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Re: [invisiblemimsy] Monkey Puzzle

Postby invisiblemimsy » Sat Apr 07, 2018 12:41 pm

Earnest wrote:So have you ever seen the place called "Monkey close"? No I mean...if you live in the nearby I assume you actually did right? No, and there's a reason for that Did you realize where you were going while you were going in that place following the map? Sorry Earnest, I don't understand, can you rephrase the question please? ...to be sure "close" = a street? Yes, aka a dead end or "cul-de-sac" in the UK A private street? No Was "Monkey close" not in the map because actually there was not Monkey close in the moment the map had been made? Monkey Close WAS in the map Was "monkey close" made recently? There was no actual Monkey Close, even though there was one showing on the map in that place Was there something instead if the field before? No,
it was just a field with trees in. Since they were full-grown trees, it was obvious there had never been a street there.
Did you expect to see a field in that place? No, I expected to see a small road with houses.

Was it a joke made to you by someone? A surprise? Did Monkey close go near your house? Is it very very close to your house? Was it written "Monkey close"? Relevant that the word "monkey "had been used? Is monkey the animal? Relevant? Was it written "Monkey"? Or was is it like mon-key? Monk-ey? No or irrel to all Relevant who put the ad? Was there written? Did the writer of the ad know the owner of the cat? If not did he elaborate a way to find it out? Was the ad meant to be fictitious? Meant for people living in the nearby? Meant to fool someone? You? To avoid something to happen? No to all, and to be honest, the ad itself is just a fictitious device I used to make this puzzle. HOWEVER, THIS SITUATION DOES HAPPEN IN REAL LIFE. Was Louie put on the tree by someone? No, he climbed up by himself

WAG --> had Louie a collar in which his name was written so that who found it was able to know his name? Irrel If so did he put in the ad a fictitious place on purpose so that the one who would have look for the cat in the nearby would have called its name and he would have been able to recognize that the one who is looking for him was actually the true owner of the cat?...don't know if it is clear..sorry No, but it's relevant that the street itself is fictitious.
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Re: [invisiblemimsy] Monkey Puzzle

Postby Earnest » Sat Apr 07, 2018 1:16 pm

Wow you destroyed meeee...
Ok so can we consider the ad as irrelevant? I mean is relevant just in that it had made you move from your house to find out the fictitious place right?

So...monkey close was in the map right? Had it got another name in the map? No name at all? Or the other way, that is it had the name "monkey close" on the map, but it had actually no name in reality? Was it too small to be identified in the map? Btw did you use google maps? A paper map? A gps? Relevant? Like you lost the internet connection on the way?

Is there a monkey road in another part of UK? Were names (monkey close written over another name) confused on the map? Is the map/name on the maps of any relevance? Is there a resason why it was written "monkey road" on the map? Do we need to find it out? Was there a bridge with a street above? (I'm imagining something like an highway on a bridge over the place where you found your kitten...which now I realize it cannot be by definition of "close")
If you checked the phone, was there any bug on the phone? Geolocalization relevant?
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Re: [invisiblemimsy] Monkey Puzzle

Postby invisiblemimsy » Sat Apr 07, 2018 1:52 pm

Earnest wrote:Wow you destroyed meeee...
Ok so can we consider the ad as irrelevant? Sure I mean is relevant just in that it had made you move from your house to find out the fictitious place right? Yes

So...monkey close was in the map right? Yes Had it got another name in the map? No, just "Monkey Close" No name at all? Or the other way, that is it had the name "monkey close" on the map, but it had actually no name in reality? Well, it didn't exist at all in reality, as you've already established Was it too small to be identified in the map? Not at all - it could clearly be seen as a small-ish street on the map Btw did you use google maps? A paper map? A gps? Relevant? Yes, it IS relevant. I could have used any of these... but... explore Like you lost the internet connection on the way? No

Is there a monkey road in another part of UK? There will probably be other roads with this name in the UK. Were names (monkey close written over another name) confused on the map? No Is the map/name on the maps of any relevance? Only that I used a map of the local area, i.e. Kingsford in this case Is there a resason why it was written "monkey road" on the map? "Monkey Close"
do you mean? Not sure what you are asking... ?
Do we need to find it out? Was there a bridge with a street above? (I'm imagining something like an highway on a bridge over the place where you found your kitten...which now I realize it cannot be by definition of "close") No
If you checked the phone, was there any bug on the phone? No Geolocalization relevant? These days, yes, but it also happened when it was just paper maps.
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Re: [invisiblemimsy] Monkey Puzzle

Postby Earnest » Sat Apr 07, 2018 2:21 pm

was the name on the map "monkey close" put there on purpose? Was it a mistake? Were there other fictitious "monkey closes" on the map? Was the name put just to identify it as a close? Has the name "monkey close" on the map a meaning? (e.g. it points out the presence of a close without a name?) Were there better ways to identify the place other than call it "monkey close"?
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Re: [invisiblemimsy] Monkey Puzzle

Postby invisiblemimsy » Sat Apr 07, 2018 2:34 pm

Earnest wrote:was the name on the map "monkey close" put there on purpose? Yes Was it a mistake? No, it was done deliberately Were there other fictitious "monkey closes" on the map? Yes but with different names Was the name put just to identify it as a close? Irrel Has the name "monkey close" on the map a meaning? (e.g. it points out the presence of a close without a name?) Well,
we've already established that there is no road there, with or without a name
Were there better ways to identify the place other than call it "monkey close"? No, BUWT :D
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Re: [invisiblemimsy] Monkey Puzzle

Postby invisiblemimsy » Sat Apr 07, 2018 2:36 pm

Earnest wrote:was the name on the map "monkey close" put there on purpose? Yes Was it a mistake? You could say it was a deliberate mistakeWere there other fictitious "monkey closes" on the map? Yes but with different names Was the name put just to identify it as a close? Irrel Has the name "monkey close" on the map a meaning? (e.g. it points out the presence of a close without a name?) Well,
we've already established that there is no road there, with or without a name
Were there better ways to identify the place other than call it "monkey close"? No, BUWT :D
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Re: [invisiblemimsy] Monkey Puzzle

Postby Earnest » Sat Apr 07, 2018 4:21 pm

So...can we assert that there was nothing that should be put on a map in that place? And btw we are talking about a specific map which is a pocal on and not a map of the entire UK for instance right? I mean...would it happen also in a map of the entire UK?...is it a way to say "there's nothing there?". Is the name to indicate something that actually WAS there in the ancient past/ in a recent past but had been destroyed? Is the name to highlight the presence of nothing in the area? Of nothing human made? Of an untouched area in a city/inside a urban area? Is it a popular way to label certain type of areas/places? I mean...it was not even a close right? So...is it a pun? Is it to identify a place? To say that the place is known to exist even though there is nothing relevant there? Relevant how the close was drawn on the map? As a simple close? Is it somehow a wording which follow a certain rule? I mean...areas like the one you ended up must have this name in official maps? If so in all kind of maps? Just in certain type of maps?

Is the name given for privacy reasons? Private ownership relevant?
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Re: [invisiblemimsy] Monkey Puzzle

Postby invisiblemimsy » Sat Apr 07, 2018 5:21 pm

Earnest wrote:So...can we assert that there was nothing that should be put on a map in that place? Correct And btw we are talking about a specific map which is a pocal on and not a map of the entire UK for instance right? I mean...would it happen also in a map of the entire UK?...It would actually appear on any map, not just local ones is it a way to say "there's nothing there?". No but explore Is the name to indicate something that actually WAS there in the ancient past/ in a recent past but had been destroyed? No Is the name to highlight the presence of nothing in the area? Same no but explore Of nothing human made? No Of an untouched area in a city/inside a urban area? No Is it a popular way to label certain type of areas/places? Yope I mean...it was not even a close right? Correct So...is it a pun? Is it to identify a place? To say that the place is known to exist even though there is nothing relevant there? Relevant how the close was drawn on the map?No to all these As a simple close? Yes but irrel Is it somehow a wording which follow a certain rule? I mean...areas like the one you ended up must have this name in official maps? If so in all kind of maps? Just in certain type of maps? No to all

Is the name given for privacy reasons? Private ownership relevant? No
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Re: [invisiblemimsy] Monkey Puzzle

Postby Acridian9 » Sun Apr 08, 2018 12:44 am

Let's say it is a paper map....was it printed with the fake street on it? or was it modified after printing?
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Re: [invisiblemimsy] Monkey Puzzle

Postby invisiblemimsy » Sun Apr 08, 2018 12:48 am

Acridian9 wrote:Let's say it is a paper map....was it printed with the fake street on it? or was it modified after printing?The paper map was printed with the fake street on it. Updated editions of the map still had the fake street.
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Re: [invisiblemimsy] Monkey Puzzle

Postby Earnest » Sun Apr 08, 2018 7:19 am

So...effectively there is nothing there. Anyway in any maps the place has a name and specifically it is adressed as being a close. Right? Could have also been "monkey street"? "Monkey road"? "Monkey + any other place usually appearing in urban maps"? Or is there a specifity in calling it a "close"? A connection with other similar places? Does it deal mostly with "how the map is build up" or with "the shape of the territory/city/place" (I mean a specific charactheristic of the territory)? Is it somehow convenient to adress the place as a close? Relevant where in the map the "monkey close" is placed? Is it a place where potentially building/streets can be build up? Has it something to do with administrative/burocratic (e.g. taxation...)/legal stuffs? Was there something relevant in the nearby? Was the place widely used by people/firms? Was there something in the nearby which justifies the identification of the place somehow? Was there nothing at all a part from trees? Was it a place where elicopters/planes couls land?
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Re: [invisiblemimsy] Monkey Puzzle

Postby Acridian9 » Sun Apr 08, 2018 8:59 am

The fake street on the map.....was it a printing error? an error while drawing the map before printing? or was it printed intentionally?
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Re: [invisiblemimsy] Monkey Puzzle

Postby invisiblemimsy » Sun Apr 08, 2018 12:02 pm

Acridian9 wrote:The fake street on the map.....was it a printing error? No an error while drawing the map before printing? No or was it printed intentionally?Yes
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Re: [invisiblemimsy] Monkey Puzzle

Postby invisiblemimsy » Sun Apr 08, 2018 12:27 pm

Earnest wrote:So...effectively there is nothing there. Correct Anyway in any maps the place has a name yes and specifically it is adressed as being a close. Right? but irrel Could have also been "monkey street"? yes "Monkey road"? yes "Monkey + any other place usually appearing in urban maps"? yes, but... Or is there a specifity in calling it a "close"? no, and actually it didn't have to be called "Monkey" either A connection with other similar places? not directly Does it deal mostly with "how the map is build up" Noish but explore or with "the shape of the territory/city/place" (I mean a specific charactheristic of the territory)? No Is it somehow convenient to adress the place as a close? No Relevant where in the map the "monkey close" is placed? Yope Is it a place where potentially building/streets can be build up? Has it something to do with administrative/burocratic (e.g. taxation...)/legal stuffs? Was there something relevant in the nearby? Was the place widely used by people/firms? Was there something in the nearby which justifies the identification of the place somehow? no to these Was there nothing at all a part from trees? correct Was it a place where elicopters/planes couls land? irrel
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Re: [invisiblemimsy] Monkey Puzzle

Postby Acridian9 » Sun Apr 08, 2018 4:14 pm

If I get it right, we have to discover why did they intentionally print a fake street on the map, the rest is merely for context, right??
Are there other fake streets on the map? relevant? other fake paces like a fake mountain or river? relevant?
Apart from the fake street, is the map accurate?
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Re: [invisiblemimsy] Monkey Puzzle

Postby invisiblemimsy » Sun Apr 08, 2018 4:49 pm

Acridian9 wrote:If I get it right, we have to discover why did they intentionally print a fake street on the map, the rest is merely for context, right?? Yes
Are there other fake streets on the map? There could be, and also on other maps relevant? Yes other fake paces Yes like a fake mountain or river? Probably not these, but something smaller, like a church or a small bridge or something relevant? it might help for context
Apart from the fake street, is the map accurate? Yes
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Re: [invisiblemimsy] Monkey Puzzle

Postby GalFisk » Sun Apr 08, 2018 9:13 pm

Was it put there as an identifier of the map maker? Of the data used to make the map? Copyright relevant? Fraud? Is it an easter egg? Are these things put where they will cause the least problems? Are they put there in case the places get built? Are they future plans?
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Re: [invisiblemimsy] Monkey Puzzle

Postby invisiblemimsy » Sun Apr 08, 2018 10:27 pm

GalFisk wrote:Was it put there as an identifier of the map maker? Yes Of the data used to make the map? Yes Copyright relevant? Yes Fraud? Is it an easter egg? No Are these things put where they will cause the least problems? Irrel Are they put there in case the places get built? No Are they future plans? No



***********************$POILER************************

"Trap streets," as they are known, are added to maps by original mapmakers as a means of spotting copyright violations. These could be fictitious streets, roads which appear longer than they are or have a bend where none exists, etc This would apply on any map, analogue or digital... I'm not sure about Google Earth though. There are even whole fictitious villages and towns in wide scale maps! Here are some examples of trap streets in London. https://londonist.com/2015/11/london-trap-streets

Well done to Galfisk for the solve, and to everyone else for playing!
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Re: [invisiblemimsy] Monkey Puzzle {*TRAPPED*}

Postby biograd » Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:10 pm

I can confirm that there are fake streets on Google Maps as well, at least in the Bay Area (where Google is headquartered). Some of them are quite funny. Like the driveway to one of the elementary schools where I used to live is labeled "Upupanda Way" and there is a walking path at a common tourist spot in San Francisco labeled "Merrie Way".

By the way there is also apparently a tree called a "monkey puzzle", because somehow the trunk has knobs in weird places that would make it tricky to climb. Alas, it seems to have nothing to do with this puzzle--unless the cat in question was stuck up in one of them.
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Re: [invisiblemimsy] Monkey Puzzle {*TRAPPED*}

Postby invisiblemimsy » Mon Apr 09, 2018 8:19 pm

Upupanda Way!! :lol: Very interesting.

No, there's not really a connection with the title. I was thinking of it being a Monkey Puzzle tree only because it sounded like a good name for a puzzle. "Louie" is the name of the gorilla in The Jungle Book.
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Re: [invisiblemimsy] Monkey Puzzle {*TRAPPED*}

Postby KayleeArafinwiel » Thu Apr 12, 2018 3:41 pm

invisiblemimsy wrote:Upupanda Way!! :lol: Very interesting.

No, there's not really a connection with the title. I was thinking of it being a Monkey Puzzle tree only because it sounded like a good name for a puzzle. "Louie" is the name of the gorilla in The Jungle Book.


King Louie is an orangutan. Though it doesn't really matter, since neither gorillas or orangutans are native to India, and the monkey people in the book had no leader at all - that was the whole point of them. :P Anyway, this is a fascinating story and I'm glad I read it, though I was too late to participate.

When I was visiting my friend Emma in Cornwall, she was using her sat nav and it mentioned that there was a roundabout a certain distance away. Emma knew the road well and kept shaking her head at the sat nav (GPS) knowing there was no such roundabout. And indeed when we got to where the sat nav said it was, there wasn't one. So apparently not just roads can be invented, but parts of roads too lol
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Re: [invisiblemimsy] Monkey Puzzle {*TRAPPED*}

Postby invisiblemimsy » Thu Apr 12, 2018 4:04 pm

I stand corrected! You might like this... btw you might recognise the gorilla by his voice.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=beCYGm1vMJ0
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Re: [invisiblemimsy] Monkey Puzzle {*TRAPPED*}

Postby KayleeArafinwiel » Thu Apr 12, 2018 4:12 pm

invisiblemimsy wrote:I stand corrected! You might like this... btw you might recognise the gorilla by his voice.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=beCYGm1vMJ0


Zazu! ^_^ *ahem* Rowan Atkinson :)
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