(KayleeArafinwiel) ...an eternal reign it was not given

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(KayleeArafinwiel) ...an eternal reign it was not given

Postby KayleeArafinwiel » Wed Apr 11, 2018 11:37 pm

I, Kaylee, am returning to you after a long absence (did you miss me?) and present you with this puzzler to work out...


A hundred years have passed - the first is now the last.
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Re: (KayleeArafinwiel) ...an eternal reign it was not given

Postby JenBurdoo » Thu Apr 12, 2018 12:08 am

Kaylee! Yes, we have missed you.

Hm. Ages relevant? Dating systems? Dates? Is an actual person referred to? An organization? An object?
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Re: (KayleeArafinwiel) ...an eternal reign it was not given

Postby KayleeArafinwiel » Thu Apr 12, 2018 12:51 am

Kaylee! Yes, we have missed you. Thank you! Missed you too!

Hm. Ages relevant? hmm, in a senseDating systems? Dates? not so muchIs an actual person referred to? kind ofAn organization? again, kind ofAn object? yes, this, more than anything else
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Re: (KayleeArafinwiel) ...an eternal reign it was not given

Postby JenBurdoo » Thu Apr 12, 2018 3:00 am

Vehicles relevant?

Is the title relevant? Ranks? Royalty/nobility? Was something demoted? Fallen from a height? From grace?
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Re: (KayleeArafinwiel) ...an eternal reign it was not given

Postby KayleeArafinwiel » Thu Apr 12, 2018 3:24 am

Vehicles relevant? hmm...not really, no

Is the title relevant? in a sense, but this may mislead Ranks? Royalty/nobility? yesish to bothWas something demoted? no Fallen from a height? From grace? neither
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Re: (KayleeArafinwiel) ...an eternal reign it was not given

Postby Earnest » Thu Apr 12, 2018 6:39 am

Hi Kaylee...never met you I huess but is a pleasure anyhow to hear from you!

So...is it like a lullaby? A myth? A legend?
The first = the first year? The first object? Is the object become first just due to the fact that time passed? Precisely 100 years have passed? Is technology relevant? Is a change happened? Is the object related to statues? Food? Weapons? Clocks? Building? Clothing? The first and the last = first to be remembered? Is the object countable? Is first and last measurable in terms of counting? Is there a finite number of those objects (20? Less? More? More than 100?) Physically the first? Is there a grading/classification of those type of objects? Relevant which is the first nowadays? (Is there a first?) Is the object concrete? Abstract?
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Re: (KayleeArafinwiel) ...an eternal reign it was not given

Postby peter365 » Thu Apr 12, 2018 7:15 am

Is this based on fact ? Is the year 1918 relevant? WWI ?
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Re: (KayleeArafinwiel) ...an eternal reign it was not given

Postby invisiblemimsy » Thu Apr 12, 2018 12:36 pm

BC and AD year notation relevant? Astrology? Astronomy? Ages as in Iron Age, Bronze Age etc? Or as in 'My age is 10, this object's age is 150 years'?
Jesus, God, another religious figure?
Is the age of the object relevant?
Was/is the object in royal possession? Is its past or present owner relevant?
Was the object stolen at some point? Given away, given as a present or exchange, sold?
Any war relevant? Nazis?
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Re: (KayleeArafinwiel) ...an eternal reign it was not given

Postby KayleeArafinwiel » Thu Apr 12, 2018 3:11 pm

wow, lots of activity while I was asleep! Thanks everyone :)

Earnest: Hi Kaylee...never met you I huess but is a pleasure anyhow to hear from you! glad to meet you!

So...is it like a lullaby? not this A myth? A legend? these two are not very far from the right forest...
The first = the first year? The first object? this Is the object become first just due to the fact that time passed? well, yes, and other related 'objects' came after Precisely 100 years have passed? approximately. It may be more like 101 years. Is technology relevant? Is a change happened? please elaborate Is the object related to statues? Food? Weapons? Clocks? Building? Clothing? it may be 'related' to all these things in some way, except clocks, but none of them are the 'objects' themselvesThe first and the last = first to be remembered? no Is the object countable? not yet Is first and last measurable in terms of counting? Is there a finite number of those objects not yet, as the 'object' has only been announced (20? Less? More? More than 100?) Physically the first? chronologicallyIs there a grading/classification of those type of objects? there are, yes, but I am not sure I understand what you mean, and I would not wish to misleadRelevant which is the first nowadays? it is both the first and the last(Is there a first?) Is the object concrete? this, though it isn't made of concrete Abstract?

Peter365Is this based on fact ? Yes Is the year 1918 relevant? WWI ? these are both slightly relevant, more to the 'creator' of the 'object' than to the 'object' itself. hello Peter, long time no see. A most astute set of questions.

invisiblemimsy BC and AD year notation relevant? all years relevant are in ADAstrology? Astronomy? Ages as in Iron Age, Bronze Age etc? slightly, but your "ages" are off - the "age" relevant is the First Age of the SunOr as in 'My age is 10, this object's age is 150 years'? This is far more relevant
Jesus, God, another religious figure? well, the creator of the "object" was Catholic, but other than identifying him (and I probably just gave it away) that isn't relevant
Is the age of the object relevant? the "object"'s creation was begun in 1917.
Was/is the object in royal possession? not literally royal, no...literary royalties, however, are relevantIs its past or present owner relevant? the only 'past owner' was its creator and his heir. The "object" will soon become available to all who wish to possess it.
Was the object stolen at some point? Given away, given as a present or exchange, sold? no, though it soon will be sold
Any war relevant? Nazis? both the First and Second World Wars were relevant to the creator of the "object" in his lifetime

most excellent questions, thank you mimsy
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Re: (KayleeArafinwiel) ...an eternal reign it was not given

Postby invisiblemimsy » Thu Apr 12, 2018 3:55 pm

To clarify, are we talking about an object which was first created in 1918? Was it the only or first one at the time? But others have followed? Or, none have followed so far but there is going to be a new one this year? Is the next one going to be similar but a new thing in its own right? Dissimilar? Is the phrase "The war to end War" relevant? Is the object's creator the Pope? Is the object an artifact? Is it going to be auctioned? Given away? Put in a museum? Put on the internet? Actual copies made and sold?

100 years ago, was it expected to be the only one? But now for some reason there is going to be another one? The same, similar or different from the first? Is this next one expected to be the last one? Will there be many more?

Anything to do with portable cameras/photographs on the battlefield? Photocopies?

Tolkien relevant?
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Re: (KayleeArafinwiel) ...an eternal reign it was not given

Postby KayleeArafinwiel » Thu Apr 12, 2018 4:00 pm

To clarify, are we talking about an object which was first created in 1917? YesWas it the only or first one at the time? But others have followed? yes to theseOr, none have followed so far but there is going to be a new one this year? others have followed. There is going to be a new one this year.Is the next one going to be similar but a new thing in its own right? yes, though not entirely newDissimilar?no Is the phrase "The war to end War" relevant? no Is the object's creator the Pope? no - though he is accorded a good deal of reverence by a group of people, it's not this kind of thing Is the object an artifact? noIs it going to be auctioned? Given away? Put in a museum? none of thesePut on the internet? well, the objects will likely be available on Amazon and such Actual copies made and sold? this too

100 years ago, was it expected to be the only one? I'm not sure if anything was 'expected' - I think only a few people other than its creator knew much about it for the next 20 years at least But now for some reason there is going to be another one? The same, similar or different from the first? similar at least Is this next one expected to be the last one? probablyWill there be many more? not from the original creator, no

Anything to do with portable cameras/photographs on the battlefield? Photocopies? not like this

Tolkien relevant? extremely - as woubit used to say, now we're cooking with gas :)
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Re: (KayleeArafinwiel) ...an eternal reign it was not given

Postby invisiblemimsy » Thu Apr 12, 2018 4:53 pm

OK, I'm not going to google this but I'm very tempted! I seem to recall there was some lost/newly found/hidden manuscript of Tolkien's, which his family are going to release? Did he make just one book out of it in 2017? Was it another story of his? A novel?
A story based in WW1? Based on war generally? A diary? Which might have been irrelevant if he hadn't become famous subsequently?
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Re: (KayleeArafinwiel) ...an eternal reign it was not given

Postby KayleeArafinwiel » Thu Apr 12, 2018 5:05 pm

invisiblemimsy: OK, I'm not going to google this but I'm very tempted! thanks for your restraint! It's easily googleable, lol I seem to recall there was some lost/newly found/hidden manuscript of Tolkien's, which his family are going to release? something like that Did he make just one book out of it in 2017? if by 'he', do you mean JRR Tolkien, he cannot currently make anything, as he is now deadWas it another story of his? not entirely new A novel? I believe it will be a novel, or at least a more complete story
A story based in WW1? no, though Tolkien lived through that war Based on war generally? no - a specific battle, may mislead A diary? Which might have been irrelevant if he hadn't become famous subsequently? no to these
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Re: (KayleeArafinwiel) ...an eternal reign it was not given

Postby invisiblemimsy » Fri Apr 13, 2018 12:02 am

Sorry, I meant did Tolkien make one book of it in 1917 (not 2017). So was this the first thing he wrote, and it's going to be the last thing of his published? Is "A hundred years have passed - the first is now the last" a quote from the manuscript? Is it part of the LOTR/Hobbit world? Another fantasy world? This world?
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Re: (KayleeArafinwiel) ...an eternal reign it was not given

Postby KayleeArafinwiel » Fri Apr 13, 2018 12:09 am

Sorry, I meant did Tolkien make one book of it in 1917 (not 2017). oh okay, no worries. He hadn't finished it yet in 1917, noSo was this the first thing he wrote, and it's going to be the last thing of his published? YesIs "A hundred years have passed - the first is now the last" a quote from the manuscript? No, just my attempt at rhyming. The title of my puzzle is also not from the manuscript, but is tangentially relevant Is it part of the LOTR/Hobbit world? It is part of the Legendarium, yes, but does not take place during LOTR/The Hobbit.Another fantasy world? This world? no to these
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Re: (KayleeArafinwiel) ...an eternal reign it was not given

Postby wwhere » Fri Apr 13, 2018 11:44 am

Well, I know that The Fall of Gondolin is coming. The events of the book, as far as my knowledge of Tolkien works go, would place it before The Lord of the Rings and the Hobbit (certainly). But not before The Silmarillion, right? Maybe within the Silmarillion, would be right?
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Re: (KayleeArafinwiel) ...an eternal reign it was not given

Postby KayleeArafinwiel » Fri Apr 13, 2018 2:42 pm

wwhere: Well, I know that The Fall of Gondolin is coming. it is The events of the book, as far as my knowledge of Tolkien works go, would place it before The Lord of the Rings and the Hobbit (certainly). But not before The Silmarillion, right? Right!Maybe within the Silmarillion, would be right? It would.

Jenburdoo in fact guessed this ages ago in PM, so that will do admirably for a *** SPOILER *** :

The Fall of Gondolin is one of the three Great Tales of the First Age, along with The Tale of Beren and Luthien and The Tale of the Children of Hurin, both of which have been expanded into books already by J.R.R. Tolkien's third son and heir, Christopher - who has, until recently, been chiefly in control of the Tolkien Estate. He is 93 years old now, and while he remains literary director, has handed over his other responsibilities.

It is likely, then, that this will be the final volume of Tolkien's works so released in Christopher's lifetime - though other products related to the Legendarium will surface now and then, the last of the Great Tales from the Silmarillion to be told in full (according both to the published Silmarillion, the Book of Lost Tales, and other notes of J.R.R. Tolkien's) will likely be the last of the posthumous novels.

The title of my puzzle does not come from Tolkien, except somewhat sideways with a dash of fanfiction. It is a slight misquote from The Ur Lamentation, "Ur was granted kingship - an eternal reign it was not granted." This line was used by my father of the heart and favourite Tolkien fanfiction author, Fiondil, as the basis of a story of Elu Thingol speaking to the Lord of Mandos after his death. Thingol was king of Doriath, not Gondolin, but as Fiondil said "one dead elvish king at a time, please!" when I asked him for Turgon's Judgement (lol) and since he never did the scene between Turgon and Namo, only Thingol and Namo before his (Fiondil's) own death, I went with the closest thing I could.

You can see that story here: http://www.storiesofarda.com/chaptervie ... &cid=25508

Thank you everyone who participated, and to wwhere and Jenburdoo for the solve!
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