[gregoryuconn] Happy Birthday, Little Sis!

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[gregoryuconn] Happy Birthday, Little Sis!

Postby gregoryuconn » Wed Aug 15, 2018 12:46 am

Before my sister was born, my parents made a point of not telling anyone whether she would be a boy or a girl. Despite this, our Jewish friends and family were able to correctly determine her gender, while our non-Jewish ones were not. How come?
Last edited by gregoryuconn on Sat Aug 25, 2018 12:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [gregoryuconn] Happy Birthday, Little Sis!

Postby Balin » Wed Aug 15, 2018 2:56 am

Welcome back Gregory! Glad to see you back around here.

Are Jewish traditions relevant? (Lack of bris invitations?) Jewish naming customs?
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Re: [gregoryuconn] Happy Birthday, Little Sis!

Postby Earnest » Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:41 am

Hello! Nice to meet you!

Circumcision relevant? Did they need to touch the stomach of your mum to determine the gender? Would they have been able to do it within two weeks from the conception? within one day?
Do they base their conjectures on science? On the other and the mother? On probabilities? On baby reaction to some stimulation? Do they know that males do something in the stomach while females do something else?

Are your parent jewish as well? Did they avoid to do something that usually jewish do when males are to be born? (don't know what is Bris so sorry if repeating questions)
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Re: [gregoryuconn] Happy Birthday, Little Sis!

Postby invisiblemimsy » Wed Aug 15, 2018 8:27 pm

Was it something to do with the Passover?
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Re: [gregoryuconn] Happy Birthday, Little Sis!

Postby gregoryuconn » Wed Aug 15, 2018 10:36 pm

Are Jewish traditions relevant? Yes (Lack of bris invitations?) Not exactly this, but you're close. Jewish naming customs? No

Circumcision relevant? Yes (see previous answer.) Did they need to touch the stomach of your mum to determine the gender? Whhat? No. Would they have been able to do it within two weeks from the conception? within one day? Much further along than either of these.
Do they base their conjectures on science? No, though it wasn't some pseudoscientific thing either.. On the other and the mother? Huh? It wasn't based on the mother.[b] On probabilities? [b]No. On baby reaction to some stimulation? No. Do they know that males do something in the stomach while females do something else? No.

Are your parent jewish as well? Yes. Did they avoid to do something that usually jewish do when males are to be born? (don't know what is Bris so sorry if repeating questions) No, but you're OTRT.
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Re: [gregoryuconn] Happy Birthday, Little Sis!

Postby jumpingjacks » Wed Aug 15, 2018 11:11 pm

Did one of your parents say something by accident that gave it away? Did they make plans for a certain day, and your relatives knew that if they were having a boy, they would not be able to make those plans, because that would be the day of the bris?
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Re: [gregoryuconn] Happy Birthday, Little Sis!

Postby trebor » Thu Aug 16, 2018 12:33 am

Is booking/not booking appointments relevant?
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Re: [gregoryuconn] Happy Birthday, Little Sis!

Postby invisiblemimsy » Thu Aug 16, 2018 12:53 am

I think you may have missed my question...
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Re: [gregoryuconn] Happy Birthday, Little Sis!

Postby Earnest » Thu Aug 16, 2018 8:19 am

is a relevant typical clothing for females been bought by your parents? A relevant cake been cooked? Prayers relevant?

So...let's suppose your family made new jewish friend. You first meet at your house. Would they be able to recognize the gender of the baby immediately?
Suppose now the same scene repeats but you meet at the synagogue. Would they be able to recognize the gender of the baby immediately?
General question: would your jewish friend be able to recognize the gender because your father and your mother use to meet them in places where non-jewish people don't usually go?
Does your gender influence the forecast of the jewish friends? Your mother's/father's name?

Niddah relevant (e.g. your father booked a 2 week ticket to stay separate from your mum...)? Is the fact that the girl's name is determined once she first enter the synagogue? (e.g. when asked about the names if the baby is a girl or a boy, they hesitate/reply that they do not know yet for the boy's name meaning they have never thought about a boy's name) were your parents aware that your jewish friends would have known the gender of the baby?

...p.s. sorry for ignorance in jewish traditions...I've tried my best.
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Re: [gregoryuconn] Happy Birthday, Little Sis!

Postby gregoryuconn » Thu Aug 16, 2018 5:06 pm

Was it something to do with the Passover? No

Did one of your parents say something by accident that gave it away? Noish Did they make plans for a certain day, and your relatives knew that if they were having a boy, they would not be able to make those plans, because that would be the day of the bris? Yope

Is booking/not booking appointments relevant? Yes

I think you may have missed my question... Addressed

is a relevant typical clothing for females been bought by your parents? A relevant cake been cooked? Prayers relevant? No to all.

So...let's suppose your family made new jewish friend. You first meet at your house. Would they be able to recognize the gender of the baby immediately?
Suppose now the same scene repeats but you meet at the synagogue. Would they be able to recognize the gender of the baby immediately? No to all of these too.

General question: would your jewish friend be able to recognize the gender because your father and your mother use to meet them in places where non-jewish people don't usually go?
Does your gender influence the forecast of the jewish friends? Your mother's/father's name? No to all of these too.

Niddah relevant (e.g. your father booked a 2 week ticket to stay separate from your mum...)? Is the fact that the girl's name is determined once she first enter the synagogue? (e.g. when asked about the names if the baby is a girl or a boy, they hesitate/reply that they do not know yet for the boy's name meaning they have never thought about a boy's name) were your parents aware that your jewish friends would have known the gender of the baby? No to all of these, very much OTWT.

...p.s. sorry for ignorance in jewish traditions...I've tried my best.
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Re: [gregoryuconn] Happy Birthday, Little Sis!

Postby jumpingjacks » Thu Aug 16, 2018 5:17 pm

Did one of (or both?) your parents book an appointment? not book an appointment?
Is this appointment for the newborn baby? for your mother? father? both parents? for you?
Is recovery from circumcision relevant? Preparations for the bris? The bris happens when the baby is eight days old, right? Is this exact day - eight days after birth - relevant for their discovering that your sister was a girl?
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Re: [gregoryuconn] Happy Birthday, Little Sis!

Postby gregoryuconn » Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:14 pm

Did one of (or both?) your parents book an appointment? Yes. not book an appointment?
Is this appointment for the newborn baby? Yope, but remember this was before my sister was born. for your mother? father? both parents? for you? My mother, though my father would have been present too.
Is recovery from circumcision relevant? No Preparations for the bris? Only laterally. The bris happens when the baby is eight days old, right? Yes. Is this exact day - eight days after birth - relevant for their discovering that your sister was a girl? YES! Good question.
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Re: [gregoryuconn] Happy Birthday, Little Sis!

Postby jumpingjacks » Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:42 pm

Is this appointment religious in nature? medical? social? leisure? exercise-related? The appointment was made before she was born, and was it also kept before she was born?
Did your mother know her exact due date before your sister was born? Did she tell anyone else of the due date? Did the due date turn out to be accurate?
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Re: [gregoryuconn] Happy Birthday, Little Sis!

Postby gregoryuconn » Fri Aug 17, 2018 1:31 pm

Is this appointment religious in nature? No. medical? This. social? No leisure? No exercise-related? No The appointment was made before she was born, Correct. and was it also kept before she was born? Yope.
Did your mother know her exact due date before your sister was born? Yes. Did she tell anyone else of the due date? YES! Did the due date turn out to be accurate? Yes.
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Re: [gregoryuconn] Happy Birthday, Little Sis!

Postby Earnest » Fri Aug 17, 2018 2:32 pm

Did she take an appointment for the eighth day after the baby's born?
Were your mother and your father aware that your jewish friends could have understood the gender of the baby before? Did your parents book an echography to mislead the jewish friends? Did she eventually go to the appointment?

anyone else = jewish friends? Non jewish one?

Is it something like the one who she told the exact due date made her presents with the date so that as soon as the jewish friends saw it, discovered the trick?
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Re: [gregoryuconn] Happy Birthday, Little Sis!

Postby gregoryuconn » Fri Aug 17, 2018 2:38 pm

Did she take an appointment for the eighth day after the baby's born? No, that's not when the appointment was. But something significant happened the eighth day after the baby was born.
Were your mother and your father aware that your jewish friends could have understood the gender of the baby before? irrelevant. Did your parents book an echography to mislead the jewish friends? No. Did she eventually go to the appointment? Ye.

anyone else = jewish friends? Non jewish one? Assume both. (Plus family.)

Is it something like the one who she told the exact due date made her presents with the date so that as soon as the jewish friends saw it, discovered the trick? I'm not sure what you're asking here.
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Re: [gregoryuconn] Happy Birthday, Little Sis!

Postby Earnest » Fri Aug 17, 2018 4:22 pm

Caesarean section relevant? Has the appointment been made before your mother knew the due date? After?

Medical appointment = a simple control?
Relevant who is usually in charge to do the bris? A doctor?

But something significant happened the eighth day after the baby was born --> so nobody was aware of the gender also at the eighth day? Or is it just to say that at the eighth day the bris was supposed to take place and there is a logical connection between "not making the bris" and "going to the medical appointment"?

Did anyone know the result of the medical appointment? Could the jewish friend determine the gender as soon as they knew about the fact that the appointment has been made?
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Re: [gregoryuconn] Happy Birthday, Little Sis!

Postby jumpingjacks » Fri Aug 17, 2018 4:30 pm

Yope to "was the appointment kept before she was born"... was the appointment made for the day of the birth? Was that what the appointment was for, to have the baby?
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Re: [gregoryuconn] Happy Birthday, Little Sis!

Postby gregoryuconn » Sun Aug 19, 2018 11:53 pm

Caesarean section relevant? YES! Has the appointment been made before your mother knew the due date? After? This in a way, but there's an FA here.

Medical appointment = a simple control? Not sure what you mean by this.
Relevant who is usually in charge to do the bris? A doctor? It's normally a mohel, but that's irrelevant.

But something significant happened the eighth day after the baby was born --> so nobody was aware of the gender also at the eighth day? No, even the ones who didn't know it before she was born knew it afterwards. Or is it just to say that at the eighth day the bris was supposed to take place and there is a logical connection between "not making the bris" and "going to the medical appointment"? I'm not sure what you're asking here.

Did anyone know the result of the medical appointment? It would have been obvious. Could the jewish friend determine the gender as soon as they knew about the fact that the appointment has been made? Yes, assuming they knew its purpose (which they would.)
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Re: [gregoryuconn] Happy Birthday, Little Sis!

Postby jumpingjacks » Mon Aug 20, 2018 3:40 am

I think you missed my questions above...

But in light of the new info, was the appointment for the C-section?

Was the eighth day after birth the Shabbat? And so, if it were a boy, he would not be able to be circumcised on this day? And so your mother would not have scheduled the Ceasarean for the day that she did?
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Re: [gregoryuconn] Happy Birthday, Little Sis!

Postby gregoryuconn » Mon Aug 20, 2018 11:10 am

I think you missed my questions above... See next answers.

But in light of the new info, was the appointment for the C-section? YES!

Was the eighth day after birth the Shabbat? No (or irrelevant, I'd have to look at the calendar.) And so, if it were a boy, he would not be able to be circumcised on this day? No, you can have a bris on Shabbat. And so your mother would not have scheduled the Ceasarean for the day that she did? But this is true, and you're very OTRT.
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Re: [gregoryuconn] Happy Birthday, Little Sis!

Postby jumpingjacks » Wed Aug 22, 2018 3:16 am

Is Shabbat relevant at all?
Your parents knew that something significant would be happening 8 days after the C-section, right? Which would rule out a bris, or at least make it inconvenient to have a clash of dates? Was it a special occasion, such as - someone's birthday? someone's wedding? a holiday? was it religious in nature? related to someone's job? to family?
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Re: [gregoryuconn] Happy Birthday, Little Sis!

Postby gregoryuconn » Wed Aug 22, 2018 2:49 pm

Is Shabbat relevant at all? No.
Your parents knew that something significant would be happening 8 days after the C-section, right? Yes. Which would rule out a bris, See next answer. or at least make it inconvenient to have a clash of dates? Highly so. Was it a special occasion, such as - someone's birthday? someone's wedding? a holiday? [Yes. was it religious in nature? Yes, no to the rest of these. related to someone's job? to family?
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Re: [gregoryuconn] Happy Birthday, Little Sis!

Postby Earnest » Thu Aug 23, 2018 8:49 am

Hospitalisation time for the baby after C-section relevant? A week? Eight days? Same question for the mother, please.

pilgrimage relevant? Would someone relevantly have come to congratukate to your family for the new born (e.g. some of your relatives coming from abroad and have the tickets for the eigth day after the C-section)?
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Re: [gregoryuconn] Happy Birthday, Little Sis!

Postby gregoryuconn » Fri Aug 24, 2018 4:09 pm

Hospitalisation time for the baby after C-section relevant? A week? Eight days? Same question for the mother, please.

pilgrimage relevant? Would someone relevantly have come to congratukate to your family for the new born (e.g. some of your relatives coming from abroad and have the tickets for the eigth day after the C-section)? All of these are irrelevant.
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Re: [gregoryuconn] Happy Birthday, Little Sis!

Postby Enjay » Fri Aug 24, 2018 4:13 pm

Was the C-section 8 days before a Jewish holiday? A Christian holiday? Christmas? Would it have been inconvenient because nobody would have been working on that day? Because your family would be busy with religious observances?
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Re: [gregoryuconn] Happy Birthday, Little Sis!

Postby gregoryuconn » Sat Aug 25, 2018 12:30 am

Was the C-section 8 days before a Jewish holiday? YES! A Christian holiday? Christmas? Would it have been inconvenient because nobody would have been working on that day? Because your family would be busy with religious observances? Among other things.... We're close enough now I think.


****SPOILER****

My sister was a scheduled C-section eight days before Yom Kippur. Obviously, nobody would have a bris on Yom Kippur if they could avoid it, so all our Jewish friends and family knew she would be a girl when they knew the date for the C-section.
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