[Solong] Following family tradition

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[Solong] Following family tradition

Postby Solong » Wed Aug 29, 2018 6:01 pm

My opposite number (my son's mother-in-law) has a rather unusual occupation for a woman. Certainly it was 40 years ago.
Leila wanted to follow this occupation as well, but her father forbade her, but not because he considered it an unsuitable job for a woman. His objection was a very practical one.
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Re: [Solong] Following family tradition

Postby gregoryuconn » Wed Aug 29, 2018 6:13 pm

Is Leila related to you? Relevant? Is religion relevant? Maybe the mother-in-law's a clergy member, but Leila belongs to another religion and therefore couldn't hold that particular clergy position?

Does Leila have a brother (and her father have a son)? Would the dad forbid him from working in the same position? If Leila were to come out as transgender, get a sex change operation, and henceforth be known as Liam, would the father still feel the same way (assuming he is supportive of Liam's gender identity)?
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Re: [Solong] Following family tradition

Postby trebor » Wed Aug 29, 2018 6:25 pm

Is Leila a fictional person? Is the profession dangerous? Does it require significant education or training? Was it unusual for a woman to have this profession because men had more/easier access to education? Because of the glass ceiling? Motherhood/child-bearing relevant? Fitting into gender norms? Is it a job that most girls would think of having when they grow up? Most boys? Is it relevant that women were/are societally expected to be the primary care-givers? Are sexist attitudes when hiring relevant?

Is the job a highly-prized one? A common one? Do most people, in your opinion, know someone who has or has had this job?
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Re: [Solong] Following family tradition

Postby Solong » Wed Aug 29, 2018 11:20 pm

Is Leila related to you? No, not even by marriage. Relevant? No. Is religion relevant? Not at all. Maybe the mother-in-law's a clergy member, but Leila belongs to another religion and therefore couldn't hold that particular clergy position?

Does Leila have a brother (and her father have a son)? She does not. Would the dad forbid him from working in the same position? Most likely.If Leila were to come out as transgender, get a sex change operation, and henceforth be known as Liam, would the father still feel the same way (assuming he is supportive of Liam's gender identity)? Yes.
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Re: [Solong] Following family tradition

Postby Solong » Wed Aug 29, 2018 11:29 pm

Is Leila a fictional person? No, this is RL. Is the profession dangerous? No.Does it require significant education or training? It requires specialized education and training. Was it unusual for a woman to have this profession because men had more/easier access to education? Because of the glass ceiling? Motherhood/child-bearing relevant? None of these. Fitting into gender norms? This is closest. Is it a job that most girls would think of having when they grow up? Probably not. Most boys? Also probably not - let's say yope.Is it relevant that women were/are societally expected to be the primary care-givers? NO Are sexist attitudes when hiring relevant? yope.

Is the job a highly-prized one? DOYD of "highly-prized."A common one? No. Do most people, in your opinion, know someone who has or has had this job? I certainly don't know anyone, other than my oppo, Louise.
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Re: [Solong] Following family tradition

Postby trebor » Thu Aug 30, 2018 3:32 am

Is Leila’s father worried she won’t make much money? Is his profession relevant? Is this a situation where it could be considered unethical or in violation of company policy for two family members to work for the same company, and he (or someone else related?) already works for Leila’s potential employer?

Is the cost of the education required for this occupation prohibitive in Leila’s case?
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Re: [Solong] Following family tradition

Postby jumpingjacks » Thu Aug 30, 2018 3:12 pm

Does Leila know Louise? relevant?
The practical objection that Leila's father has - would this have applied to Louise as well? To any other person today who might like to enter this profession?
Is it a job that most people would have heard of? Or at least understand what is involved in it?
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Re: [Solong] Following family tradition

Postby invisiblemimsy » Thu Aug 30, 2018 3:21 pm

Does Leila want to follow in her father's footsteps, job wise? Would it be considered an unsuitable job for anyone? But someone has to do it, kind of thing? Is this present day? Relevant the country? English speaking? Is it executioner? Something like that in any way? Is Leila a child when they have this convo? Can she not do it because the position is already filled? Is it dead mans shoes? Is it spying or similar?
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Re: [Solong] Following family tradition

Postby Solong » Thu Aug 30, 2018 4:11 pm

Is Leila’s father worried she won’t make much money? n.r.Is his profession relevant? YES Is this a situation where it could be considered unethical or in violation of company policy for two family members to work for the same company, and he (or someone else related?) already works for Leila’s potential employer? n.r.

Is the cost of the education required for this occupation prohibitive in Leila’s case? no
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Re: [Solong] Following family tradition

Postby Solong » Thu Aug 30, 2018 4:15 pm

Does Leila know Louise? relevant? No and no.
The practical objection that Leila's father has - would this have applied to Louise as well? Louise's father did not object. To any other person today who might like to enter this profession? Possibly to some.
Is it a job that most people would have heard of? Or at least understand what is involved in it? Yes to both.
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Re: [Solong] Following family tradition

Postby Solong » Thu Aug 30, 2018 4:25 pm

Does Leila want to follow in her father's footsteps, job wise? Yes.Would it be considered an unsuitable job for anyone? No.But someone has to do it, kind of thing? No, not 'undesirable work' or 'dirty work' at all. Is this present day? Yes Relevant the country? Louise is American, Leila European; only remotely relevant, if at all. English speaking? n.r. Is it executioner? no. Something like that in any way? no, no, no. Is Leila a child when they have this convo? Unknown, but likely.Can she not do it because the position is already filled? n.r. Is it dead mans shoes? Is it spying or similar? No to both.
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Re: [Solong] Following family tradition

Postby Earnest » Thu Aug 30, 2018 5:00 pm

Is her physical appearence? (E.G. Was she tall?) Is the father a blue collar? A pilot? An astronaut? Is it sport related? Did the father want to protect her? Is the job dangerous? Is the job going to be replaced? Is the father going to retire? If not did he think that having a son or a daughter at his same place of work would impeed him to focus?

Was the job considered unusual for a woman because with the technology of 40 years ago, it was required strength? It was done just by males? Now is it unusual to see a woman doing that job?

Are cars involved? Mines? Airplanes? Sport? Media? Fights? Weapons? Police? Army? Others?

Little WAG: the father was an officier in the army having access to top secret info. He knew that soon a war would have begun and did not want that the daughter join the army.
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Re: [Solong] Following family tradition

Postby Solong » Fri Aug 31, 2018 2:48 am

Is her physical appearence? (E.G. Was she tall?) Louise is. Leila appears to be about medium build, but this is n.r. Is the father a blue collar? A pilot? An astronaut? Is it sport related? Did the father want to protect her? Is the job dangerous? Is the job going to be replaced? Is the father going to retire? If not did he think that having a son or a daughter at his same place of work would impeed him to focus? All good questions, and the answer to all is no or n.r.

Was the job considered unusual for a woman because with the technology of 40 years ago, it was required strength? It was done just by males? Now is it unusual to see a woman doing that job?It did, and does, require some strength. A man in a wheelchair, for example, couldn't do it.

Are cars involved? Cars are not part of the job, but are used in transport to it. Only this is relevant. Mines? Airplanes? Sport? Media? Fights? Weapons? Police? Army? no to all. Others? Keep exploring!

Little WAG: the father was an officier in the army having access to top secret info. He knew that soon a war would have begun and did not want that the daughter join the army. Military not involved.
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Re: [Solong] Following family tradition

Postby Earnest » Fri Aug 31, 2018 8:13 am

So it is a job that was present also 40 years ago right? Is it changed a lot now w.r.t. 40 years ago? If so thanks to PC? To technology in general?

Are waiter involved? Restaurant in general? Food? Banks? Entertainment? Cinema? Amousement parks? Mascot? Movies?
Film director? Buildings? Constructions? Parties?

Dressing code relevant? Are clowns relevant?
E.g. a little wag I had was that the job involved to mask. Usually women were employed in order to wear a sexy dress/costume.


Are the father's collegues relevant? Were there other women employed with the father? If so, did they perform the same job of the father? Can we assume they had the same carreer path of the father within that job category?
Os the job performed inside a firm? In a building? Outside? Is it related to children? Adults? Health care? Hospitals? Illnesses? Publoc? Speaking in public? Shop?
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Re: [Solong] Following family tradition

Postby Solong » Fri Aug 31, 2018 4:50 pm

So it is a job that was present also 40 years ago right? Is it changed a lot now w.r.t. 40 years ago? Not much; in its basics, not at all.If so thanks to PC? To technology in general?

Are waiter involved? Restaurant in general? Food? Banks? Entertainment? This, no to everything else. Cinema? Amousement parks? Mascot? Movies?
Film director? Buildings? Constructions? Parties?

Dressing code relevant? No. Are clowns relevant?
E.g. a little wag I had was that the job involved to mask. Usually women were employed in order to wear a sexy dress/costume. Keep those WAGs coming. Most of them are wrong, as this is, but sometimes they are right. No clowns involved.


Are the father's collegues relevant? Yessish.Were there other women employed with the father? If so, did they perform the same job of the father? Can we assume they had the same carreer path of the father within that job category? Yes to all.
Os the job performed inside a firm? Yope, DOYD 'firm.'In a building? Outside? Usuallly in a building.Is it related to children? Adults? Mostly adults.Health care? Hospitals? Illnesses? Publoc? Speaking in public? Public is involved, but not 'speaking in public.' No to everything else.Shop?
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Re: [Solong] Following family tradition

Postby jumpingjacks » Fri Aug 31, 2018 5:35 pm

Magician? Stand-up comedy?
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Re: [Solong] Following family tradition

Postby trebor » Fri Aug 31, 2018 6:33 pm

Actor? Musician? Singer? Dancer? Lighting/sound designer? Costume design? Set design? Backstage crew? Playwright/screenwriter? Stage manager? (Although most SMs I know are women...) Conductor?
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Re: [Solong] Following family tradition

Postby Earnest » Sat Sep 01, 2018 6:47 am

Lap dance relevant? Miming (hope it is correct)? Painting? Modeling? (And he did not want the daughter to pose as a nude in a painting) photography? (And he knew every picture must be photoshopped/certain charachteristics must be satisfied) acting? Is the building where he works in always the same? Always different? Theater involved? Is the public interacting with him relevantly when he performs the job or is it there just as a viewer?

Is him proud of his job? Are the practical reasons mainly related to: embarassment? Impossibility of doing something that is required in the job? Carreer path for women? Behavior with women? Animals involved (e.g. they need to perform some type of show with spiders and the daughter was arachnophobic? The same question with fear of heights...)
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Re: [Solong] Following family tradition

Postby trebor » Sat Sep 01, 2018 9:33 pm

Magician’s assistant? Hypnotist/mentalist? Another on-stage assistant of some kind? Escapologist? Street performer? Knife thrower? Sword swallower?

Does Leila’s height play in here? Any disabilities relevant?
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Re: [Solong] Following family tradition

Postby Solong » Sat Sep 01, 2018 9:36 pm

Magician? Stand-up comedy?No to both.


Re: [Solong] Following family tradition

Magician’s assistant? Hypnotist/mentalist? Another on-stage assistant of some kind? Escapologist? Street performer? Knife thrower? Sword swallower? No to all.

Does Leila’s height play in here? Her physical appearance/build is not related to the reason her father objected. Any disabilities relevant? No.
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Re: [Solong] Following family tradition

Postby Solong » Sat Sep 01, 2018 9:38 pm

Actor? Musician? This, no to the rest.Singer? Dancer? Lighting/sound designer? Costume design? Set design? Backstage crew? Playwright/screenwriter? Stage manager? (Although most SMs I know are women...) Conductor?
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Re: [Solong] Following family tradition

Postby Solong » Sat Sep 01, 2018 9:46 pm

Lap dance relevant? Miming (hope it is correct)? Painting? Modeling? (And he did not want the daughter to pose as a nude in a painting) photography? (And he knew every picture must be photoshopped/certain charachteristics must be satisfied) acting? We have established that the family tradition is music. Explore this.Is the building where he works in always the same? Always different? n.r. to both.Theater involved?They may appear in theaters, but 'the theater' is not involved. Is the public interacting with him relevantly when he performs the job or is it there just as a viewer? viewing, listening, applauding.

Is him proud of his job? Yes. Are the practical reasons mainly related to: embarassment? No.Impossibility of doing something that is required in the job? Yope; but impossibility or difficulty not related to her being female. Carreer path for women? Behavior with women? Animals involved No to all.(e.g. they need to perform some type of show with spiders and the daughter was arachnophobic? The same question with fear of heights...) No. Any fears or phobias are n.r.
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Re: [Solong] Following family tradition

Postby trebor » Wed Sep 05, 2018 1:57 am

Does the father's objection have to do with a potential touring schedule? With issues she may have with other musicians? Is he famous, and he's worried about her being seen as simply riding his coat tails? Is he worried about her abusing drugs/alcohol? Does she have any relevant aptitude in another field that he would rather her pursue? Is the genre of music she plays relevant? Is the instrument she plays?
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Re: [Solong] Following family tradition

Postby Solong » Wed Sep 05, 2018 2:42 am

Does the father's objection have to do with a potential touring schedule? Yessish - with potential problems with touring. With issues she may have with other musicians? No. Is he famous, and he's worried about her being seen as simply riding his coat tails? Is he worried about her abusing drugs/alcohol? No to all. Does she have any relevant aptitude in another field that he would rather her pursue? Not in a non-musical field.Is the genre of music she plays relevant? Classical. Is the instrument she plays?The instrument she actually plays is the violin.
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Re: [Solong] Following family tradition

Postby Earnest » Wed Sep 05, 2018 6:54 am

Did she need to leave the country? Is she part of an orchestra? Is the mean of transport she needs to take relevant? Can they afford it?

Would she need to go on tour around the world? Just in USA? Relevant what she was actually dong (e.g. playing in an orchestra, performing music)? Did she play solos? If the job is in an orchestra...Is the role given to her in the orchestra relevant? (E.g. she was soloist but in the orchestra she was part of the group of violinsts...)

Would she go on tour with the father? Relevant? Is it a disturbance for the father (e.g. he had a lover)? Relevant what they do on tour? Maybe if she also went on tour nobody could take care of the house/ of the mum?...is the fact that they have the same surname relevant?
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Re: [Solong] Following family tradition

Postby Solong » Wed Sep 05, 2018 4:50 pm

Did she need to leave the country? n.r. Is she part of an orchestra? yes. Is the mean of transport she needs to take relevant? Yessish. Can they afford it?Yope leaning to no.

Would she need to go on tour around the world? Just in USA? She does not live in the US, so both q's are n.r.Relevant what she was actually dong (e.g. playing in an orchestra, performing music)? Did she play solos? If the job is in an orchestra...Is the role given to her in the orchestra relevant? (E.g. she was soloist but in the orchestra she was part of the group of violinsts...) Yes, her role is relevant, and you are OTRT with 'violinists'. Explore.

Would she go on tour with the father? Relevant? Possibly, possibly not. n.r.Is it a disturbance for the father (e.g. he had a lover)? Relevant what they do on tour? Maybe if she also went on tour nobody could take care of the house/ of the mum?... all of this n.r.is the fact that they have the same surname relevant?I assume they do, but n.r.
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Re: [Solong] Following family tradition

Postby trebor » Wed Sep 05, 2018 6:22 pm

Is she second violin? Is her father worried about her playing second fiddle to someone? (Possibly to him, if he’s first violin?)

Means of transport: car? Truck? Van? Tour van? Plane? Subway? Train? Bus? Bicycle? Boat? Helicopter? Walking?
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Re: [Solong] Following family tradition

Postby Earnest » Thu Sep 06, 2018 6:21 am

Did daughter and father go together to work? Come back together? Timetables relevant?Relevant? Did father revise something during the travel? Relevant where the orchestra performs?

Does, according to the father, the problem arise during the rehearse of the orchestra? During the tours? Is competition relevant? Is her violine relevant? Would she be able to emerge as a violinst with the other playing as well? Would she be assigned to a group of better violinists? Would she substitute them? Did the father know they were better than her? More experienced? Appearence on the stage relevant?(e.g. all violinists were men dressong the same way and a woman would have dressed differently so that she would have been placed behind everyone)
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Re: [Solong] Following family tradition

Postby Solong » Fri Sep 07, 2018 8:25 pm

Is she second violin? Is her father worried about her playing second fiddle to someone? (Possibly to him, if he’s first violin?) She does play the violin, with her father's blessing; but it is her second choice. She originally wanted to follow in her father's footsteps by playing another instrument.

Means of transport: car? This, mainly. The others rarely or n.r.Truck? Van? Tour van? Plane? Subway? Train? Bus? Bicycle? Boat? Helicopter? Walking?
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Re: [Solong] Following family tradition

Postby Solong » Fri Sep 07, 2018 8:30 pm

Did daughter and father go together to work? Come back together? At times, no doubt.Timetables relevant?Relevant? Did father revise something during the travel? Relevant where the orchestra performs? All of these yope or n.r.

Does, according to the father, the problem arise during the rehearse of the orchestra? During the tours? Could arise in either case, or even before. Is competition relevant? No.Is her violine relevant? Would she be able to emerge as a violinst with the other playing as well? Would she be assigned to a group of better violinists? Would she substitute them? Did the father know they were better than her? More experienced? Appearence on the stage relevant?(e.g. all violinists were men dressong the same way and a woman would have dressed differently so that she would have been placed behind everyone) She does play the violin, so none of these things is relevant. However, the instrument she wanted to learn, which was a family tradition, would have been.
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Re: [Solong] Following family tradition

Postby jumpingjacks » Fri Sep 07, 2018 11:18 pm

Was the tradition to play the double-bass? And it's just so massive that it makes transporting it around difficult?
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Re: [Solong] Following family tradition

Postby trebor » Fri Sep 07, 2018 11:35 pm

Is her first choice also a string instrument? Woodwind? Brass? Percussion?
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Re: [Solong] Following family tradition

Postby Solong » Sun Sep 09, 2018 8:24 pm

Was the tradition to play the double-bass? YESAnd it's just so massive that it makes transporting it around difficult?

********************SPOILER******************
Vilde Frang is a Norwegian concert violinist. She is perfectly happy to play the violin, but she originally wanted to be a double-bassist like her father and her older sister. Father nixed that idea, because there wasn't room in the family car for another instrument that size and all its attendant gear.
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Re: [Solong] Following family tradition

Postby jumpingjacks » Sun Sep 09, 2018 8:28 pm

Thanks for the puzzle!
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Re: [Solong] Following family tradition

Postby invisiblemimsy » Sun Sep 09, 2018 8:35 pm

Love it!
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Re: [Solong] Following family tradition

Postby Solong » Sun Sep 09, 2018 10:45 pm

Glad you enjoyed it! BTW, Louise, my son's mother-in-law, is a country-western musician. Originally hired as a band singer, she proved invaluable because she could double in double-bass, guitar, banjo, etc. She had been taught by her 7 older brothers. With a family that size, they needed a bus or van, so the problem of car-too-small didn't arise.
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