[WiZ] Ethanomics

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[WiZ] Ethanomics

Postby WiZ » Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:42 pm

Ethan has an inventory of items to sell. He succeeds in selling all the items. The customers who bought the items all later give these items back to Ethan and don't demand a refund or replacement. At the end of the day, Ethan still has every item in his inventory, as well as all the money he made from selling them. How does he get away with this?

BOATS. No Caveat .
Last edited by WiZ on Wed Nov 21, 2018 3:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [WiZ] Ethanomics

Postby Earnest » Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:37 am

So is Ethan a HAM? Is him an "official seller"? Did people return the items intact as when they bought them? With all the parts in them? Does he sell items or maybe rent them? Do customers use the items somehow? If so, can the items be used again once a customer has used it and is ready to give it back to Ethan?

Are the items solid? Gas? Liquid? Are they used in houses? In the street? At the place where they were bought? Technology relevant? Drawing pictures relevant? Cameras? Tools in general? Fishing relevant? Cars? Gardening? Shoes (e.g. in bowling)? Food relevant?
later = within seconds? Hours? Minutes? Days? Years? Months?
Can we consider the sell as a "temporary sell"? I mean, does the customer what he bought permanently? If so, after having exploited the item? Do people return the items in the same initial physical status? Do people buying the item know that they have to return it to Ethan? Do they return it because they have finished to use it? Is it normal to give back these items? (e.g. glasses in a cinema...)

At the end of the day, Ethan still has every item in his inventory--> are they ready to be resold back as soon as they are returned by customers?
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Re: [WiZ] Ethanomics

Postby wolfier » Tue Nov 13, 2018 3:52 pm

Is Ethan's activities usually considered moral? legal? How long does later mean, days, weeks, months, years? Did they all give the items back to him at the same time regardless when they buy them? Did they give them to Ethan after having owned the items for some specific length of time?
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Re: [WiZ] Ethanomics

Postby WiZ » Tue Nov 13, 2018 11:30 pm

Earnest

So is Ethan a H yes A no M? yes Is him an "official seller"? I don't know how to interpret that, sorry Did people return the items intact as when they bought them? yes With all the parts in them? yes Does he sell items yes or maybe rent them? no Do customers use the items somehow? no If so, can the items be used again once a customer has used it and is ready to give it back to Ethan? no

Are the items solid? yes Gas? Liquid? no to rest Are they used in houses? In the street? At the place where they were bought? yes (or, 'no reason not to') to all Technology relevant? no Drawing pictures relevant? Cameras? Tools in general? Fishing relevant? Cars? Gardening? Shoes (e.g. in bowling)? no to all Food relevant? yes
later = within seconds? Hours? Minutes? Days? Years? Months?
Can we consider the sell as a "temporary sell"? no I mean, does the customer what he bought permanently? yes If so, after having exploited the item? yes Do people return the items in the same initial physical status? yes Do people buying the item know that they have to return it to Ethan? no Do they return it because they have finished to use it? no Is it normal to give back these items? (e.g. glasses in a cinema...) Under most circumstances, no

At the end of the day, Ethan still has every item in his inventory--> are they ready to be resold back as soon as they are returned by customers? yes

Wolfier

Is Ethan's activities usually considered moral? yes (although maybe a little ethically questionable) legal? yes How long does later mean, days, weeks, months, years? none of the above Did they all give the items back to him at the same time regardless when they buy them? not precisely the same time, but at a similar time Did they give them to Ethan after having owned the items for some specific length of time? no (to interpret that as a prescribed or necessarily common length of time)
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Re: [WiZ] Ethanomics

Postby wolfier » Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:44 am

When the customer returned the items, did they consider the items defective? useless? spent? no longer enjoyable? unusable? not working as advertised? are they satisfied with their purchase? is there something else they're going to gain by returning the items? e.g. Is Ethan providing an upgrade?
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Re: [WiZ] Ethanomics

Postby Earnest » Wed Nov 14, 2018 8:48 am

Does E give the items back to the same customers? Does he sell food? Do clients return items directly to him? Is something like kinder surprise involved? If so, it is clear to customers what he is selling? (E.g. he sells the surprise of the egg instead of the egg and the customers give him back the surprise). Are his customers mainly HAM? HC? HTeens? Was a box relevantly sold with the items? If so, do clients directly return the items or the box containing them?

Food involved = is food sold? Relevant which kind of food? Hamburgers? Sweets? Pizza? Street food? Others? Is a beverage sold with the food? Is he "playing" with tastes (e.g. he sells food + beverage at a certain price; people however do not usually associate that kind of drink to that food and hence return him back the beverage). Is the item sold in the same "form" as before sold for the first time? (E.g. people return an opened can and he just put its content in another box)

Is alchol involved? (E.g. police in the nearby...) Are people that return the items generally haply to do so?
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Re: [WiZ] Ethanomics

Postby WiZ » Wed Nov 14, 2018 8:04 pm

Wolfier

When the customer returned the items, did they consider the items defective? useless? spent? no longer enjoyable? unusable? not working as advertised? no to all are they satisfied with their purchase? yes is there something else they're going to gain by returning the items? no e.g. Is Ethan providing an upgrade? no

Earnest

Does E give the items back to the same customers? ? Ethan doesn't give the items back; the customers give the items back to him Does he sell food? yes Do clients return items directly to him? yes Is something like kinder surprise involved? no If so, it is clear to customers what he is selling? but yes (E.g. he sells the surprise of the egg instead of the egg and the customers give him back the surprise). n/a Are his customers mainly HAM? HC? HTeens? H/A/irrel Was a box relevantly sold with the items? no If so, do clients directly return the items or the box containing them? n/a

Food involved = is food sold? yes Relevant which kind of food? yes Hamburgers? Sweets? Pizza? Street food? no to these Others? yes Is a beverage sold with the food? no Is he "playing" with tastes (e.g. he sells food + beverage at a certain price; people however do not usually associate that kind of drink to that food and hence return him back the beverage). no Is the item sold in the same "form" as before sold for the first time? yes (E.g. people return an opened can and he just put its content in another box) not this

Is alchol involved? (E.g. police in the nearby...) no Are people that return the items generally haply to do so? It depends on how carefully they're thinking about the situation...
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Re: [WiZ] Ethanomics

Postby Earnest » Thu Nov 15, 2018 7:52 am

Is it human food? Food to feed animals?
If it is human food, do clients eat it? If not is there a specific reason why they don't? Like it smells? It is not edible? Food allergies relevant? Is any ban relevant? (E.g. do not feed animals...)

Do customers personally go back to E and give him back the items without asking for cash back? Or do they leave it there and then E go there and collect it?

Is the food popcorn? Does E work for a cinema? Are animals somehow involved? (E.g. he sells food knowing that birds will have disturbed anyone earing food there)
Relevant where he worked? In a stadium? In a theater? Is ice cream involved?

WAG --> he worked in a theater (or in a carusel) and people buy food in order to throw it against actors making a low performance
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Re: [WiZ] Ethanomics

Postby wolfier » Thu Nov 15, 2018 3:08 pm

So the customers give back the solid food items to Ethan in "the same initial physical status".

Did you answer it because it is an objective fact - does Ethan know they're in the same state? In the customers' minds, do they think the items are in the same state?
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Re: [WiZ] Ethanomics

Postby WiZ » Thu Nov 15, 2018 11:22 pm

Earnest

Is it human food? yes Food to feed animals? no
If it is human food, do clients eat it? no If not is there a specific reason why they don't? I'll say no - in light of your examples Like it smells? no It is not edible? no Food allergies relevant? no Is any ban relevant? (E.g. do not feed animals...) no

Do customers personally go back to E and give him back the items without asking for cash back? no Or do they leave it there and then E go there and collect it? not quite, but this is much closer

Is the food popcorn? no Does E work for a cinema? no Are animals somehow involved? (E.g. he sells food knowing that birds will have disturbed anyone earing food there) no

I get this question often enough that I may have to start posting animal puzzles

Relevant where he worked? no/FA In a stadium? In a theater? Is ice cream involved? no to all

WAG --> he worked in a theater (or in a carusel) and people buy food in order to throw it against actors making a low performance incorrect

Wolfier

So the customers give back the solid food items to Ethan in "the same initial physical status". yes

Did you answer it because it is an objective fact - does Ethan know they're in the same state? yes (or strongly suspects, to the point of presumption, that they will be) In the customers' minds, do they think the items are in the same state? yes
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Re: [WiZ] Ethanomics

Postby Earnest » Fri Nov 16, 2018 7:38 am

Does E go from a place to another to sell the solid items? Does he work for instance at a beach? Is the food sold contained in a relevant box? With relevant disgusting pictures on it? If a modification is not made to the food by customers, do they modify something else sold with the item?

Food = fruit? Vegetables? Food requiring some elaboration before being sold? Chips? Junk food? Yogurts?
E.g. bananas with just the peel?


Aside... WiZ I know that my continuous guesses and WAGs could be annoying...it's just my way to go through a puzzle, so, please, let me know if you would like me to avoid them in the course of the puzzle :D
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Re: [WiZ] Ethanomics

Postby biograd » Fri Nov 16, 2018 8:06 am

Given my biology background, the title of this puzzle seemed like it should have something to do with genetically engineering new life forms to produce ethanol...

Do the customers, when purchasing the items, expect to eat/drink them at some point in the future? If not, do they "use" the items in some sense other than as food/drink (as some incredibly random examples, something like using a piece of fruit as a paperweight, or a bottle of water to create a rainbow effect using the sun)?
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Re: [WiZ] Ethanomics

Postby WiZ » Mon Nov 19, 2018 8:29 pm

Earnest

Does E go from a place to another to sell the solid items? yes Does he work for instance at a beach? no Is the food sold contained in a relevant box? not a box, but explore With relevant disgusting pictures on it? no (curious now) If a modification is not made to the food by customers, do they modify something else sold with the item? no

Food = fruit? Vegetables? no to both Food requiring some elaboration before being sold? no Chips? no Junk food? yes Yogurts? no
E.g. bananas with just the peel? no


Aside... WiZ I know that my continuous guesses and WAGs could be annoying...it's just my way to go through a puzzle, so, please, let me know if you would like me to avoid them in the course of the puzzle :D Please keep going with them - they're always entertaining and always very lateral!

Biograd

Given my biology background, the title of this puzzle seemed like it should have something to do with genetically engineering new life forms to produce ethanol... This is why I've never warmed to the name 'Ethan' - it just always seemed very clinical to my eyes and ears.

Do the customers, when purchasing the items, expect to eat/drink them at some point in the future? yes If not, do they "use" the items in some sense other than as food/drink (as some incredibly random examples, something like using a piece of fruit as a paperweight, or a bottle of water to create a rainbow effect using the sun)? no
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Re: [WiZ] Ethanomics

Postby wolfier » Tue Nov 20, 2018 3:11 am

Did the customers buy the items to consume it soon? Was it a surprise to them, that the food items ended up not consumed? Exact nature of the food item relevant? Was the item cooked? If so, deep-fried? baked? is it sugar-coated? candies? marshmallow? is it frozen? can it be grown? was it not consumed because the customers consumed other things instead? not hungry / craving the junk food anymore? Does Ethan sell this food item at a school? Were the customers not allowed to consume the items? Too busy / did not have time to?
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Re: [WiZ] Ethanomics

Postby Earnest » Tue Nov 20, 2018 8:11 am

Any of these relevant: Fried chicken? French fries? Chips? Hamburgers? Pizza? Ketchup?
Does he sell the items with a charity association so that whenever people bought them give voluntarily them back in order to do charity? Does he sell them from home to home? In stadiums? In crowdy places? Are flies or pigeons relevant at all?

Is the food contained in a paper? If so is there something relevantly written on it? Does the paper grease itself relevantly? Do people to which he sells the item wear relevantly costly clothes? Had a dependency on junk food and need to resist and not eat them?
Is the act of giving the junk food back to him mainly driven by: pity? Kindness? Disgust? Absence of hunger? Impossibility to eat the item without dirty oneself? Some component of the junk food? Power of will? Necessity to have clean hands?
Allergies relevant? Had the food been not junk food would the puzzle still work? Do people have the possibility to ask for a refund?

WAG --> 1) he puts the items in vending machines knowing that the paper would have dirtied itself once the item would have fall down/the paper would have catch itself in the engines of the vending machines (he waits in the nearby with the keys and as soon as the customer leaves without the item and having given up to be refund by the vending, he comes and put the junk food back to its original place)
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Re: [WiZ] Ethanomics

Postby WiZ » Tue Nov 20, 2018 10:02 pm

Wolfier

Did the customers buy the items to consume it soon? sooner rather than later, yes Was it a surprise to them, that the food items ended up not consumed? yes Exact nature of the food item relevant? somewhat Was the item cooked? no If so, deep-fried? baked? n/a to both is it sugar-coated? no candies? arguably, but there's a better descriptor marshmallow? no is it frozen? no can it be grown? no, but its components can was it not consumed because the customers consumed other things instead? no not hungry / craving the junk food anymore? no Does Ethan sell this food item at a school? no Were the customers not allowed to consume the items? no Too busy / did not have time to? quite possibly

Earnest

Any of these relevant: Fried chicken? French fries? Chips? Hamburgers? Pizza? Ketchup? no to all
Does he sell the items with a charity association yesish so that whenever people bought them give voluntarily them back in order to do charity? but no, although this is somewhat ORT Does he sell them from home to home? yes In stadiums? In crowdy places? no to these Are flies or pigeons relevant at all? no

Is the food contained in a paper? yesish If so is there something relevantly written on it? no Does the paper grease itself relevantly? no Do people to which he sells the item wear relevantly costly clothes? no Had a dependency on junk food and need to resist and not eat them? no
Is the act of giving the junk food back to him mainly driven by: pity? Kindness? this, mostly; no or irrel to rest Disgust? Absence of hunger? Impossibility to eat the item without dirty oneself? Some component of the junk food? Power of will? Necessity to have clean hands?
Allergies relevant? no Had the food been not junk food would the puzzle still work? probably not Do people have the possibility to ask for a refund? they could try; but I suspect they wouldn't be motivated to

WAG --> 1) he puts the items in vending machines knowing that the paper would have dirtied itself once the item would have fall down/the paper would have catch itself in the engines of the vending machines (he waits in the nearby with the keys and as soon as the customer leaves without the item and having given up to be refund by the vending, he comes and put the junk food back to its original place) That is certainly wild. But incorrect, unfortunately.
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Re: [WiZ] Ethanomics

Postby wolfier » Wed Nov 21, 2018 2:37 am

So the item is chocolate.

Did Ethan sell it to people he knows or strangers? Fundraising relevant? St Valentine's Day gifts relevant?
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Re: [WiZ] Ethanomics

Postby WiZ » Wed Nov 21, 2018 2:50 am

So the item is chocolate. It is!

Did Ethan sell it to people he knows or strangers? strangers Charity no or scouting I was thinking of school fundraising, but this is a possible alternate answer relevant? St Valentine's Day gifts relevant? no
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Re: [WiZ] Ethanomics

Postby wolfier » Wed Nov 21, 2018 3:08 am

Did Ethan sell the chocolate to them as part of a fundraising attempt (for school or scout or some sort of community)
And then later he also volunteered in a food drive, where his very charitable neighbours just donated the chocolate back?
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Re: [WiZ] Ethanomics

Postby WiZ » Wed Nov 21, 2018 3:26 am

Did Ethan sell the chocolate to them as part of a fundraising attempt (for school or scout or some sort of community) yes
And then later he also volunteered in a food drive, where his very charitable neighbours just donated the chocolate back? very much ORT, but even more insidious - if it were a food drive, Ethan would not be able to re-sell the items he initially sold
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Re: [WiZ] Ethanomics

Postby wolfier » Wed Nov 21, 2018 3:36 am

Did he get the chocolate back on Halloween?
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Re: [WiZ] Ethanomics

Postby WiZ » Wed Nov 21, 2018 3:41 am

Did he get the chocolate back on Halloween?

***** SPOILER *****

The day is October 31. The country is New Zealand, or a similar country still in the early stages of adopting American halloween customs.

In the afternoon, Ethan goes door-to-door and sells chocolate bars as a school fundraiser. In the evening, he returns to these same houses in costume demanding candy. Not being prepared for trick-or-treaters, the homeowners have nothing to offer Ethan except the chocolate they bought from him a few hours ago!


Congratulations, Wolfier, on the solution, and thank you everyone else for playing!
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Re: [WiZ] Ethanomics [TRICKED]

Postby Doriana » Wed Nov 21, 2018 8:13 am

Nice puzzle. I was totally unprepared for trick-or-treaters on Halloween, but I got four groups of them, and all I could offer were walnuts and plums.
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Re: [WiZ] Ethanomics [TRICKED]

Postby wolfier » Wed Nov 21, 2018 1:33 pm

nice puzzle, you're being too generous with the hints, otherwise it wouldn't have been such a quick one. :D
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Re: [WiZ] Ethanomics [TRICKED]

Postby WiZ » Wed Nov 21, 2018 7:40 pm

I've noticed I'm giving more qualified answers than I used to, and I think I may be being influenced by my job - if I gave blanket yes or no answers to all the queries I got at work, the ministry would quickly find themselves liable for billions in claims!
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Re: [WiZ] Ethanomics [TRICKED]

Postby Balin » Wed Nov 21, 2018 9:08 pm

You're making it harder to narrow down my Best Of 2018...
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Re: [WiZ] Ethanomics [TRICKED]

Postby Earnest » Thu Nov 22, 2018 6:34 am

Very nice one and congrats to Ethan hhahaha
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