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[Balin] But then the kid woke up

PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 4:15 pm
by Balin
Nicole is kidnapped and Valerie is killed. The culprits are caught when the police do not find Martin's fingerprints. How?

Re: [Balin] But then the kid woke up

PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 5:17 pm
by Doriana
Getting the basics out of the way...
Nicole = H/A/F? H/C/F?
Valerie = H/A/F? H/C/F?
Martin = H/A/M? H/C/M?
The culprits: Two people? If so, one for kidnapping and one for killing? Or did they commit both crimes together? More than two people? H/A/F? M? Mixed? Is Martin one of the culprits?
Do Nicole and Valerie know each other? Nicole and Martin? Martin and Valerie?

Re: [Balin] But then the kid woke up

PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 5:29 pm
by Balin
Getting the basics out of the way...
Nicole = H/A/F? This H/C/F?
Valerie = H/A/F? This H/C/F?
Martin = H/A/M? This H/C/M?
The culprits: Two people? Yes If so, one for kidnapping and one for killing? Or did they commit both crimes together? Both conspired in both crimes, but one was the primary perpetrator More than two people? H/A/F? M? Mixed? Both HA, one M, one F Is Martin one of the culprits? Yes
Do Nicole and Valerie know each other? Nicole and Martin? Martin and Valerie? All three know each other

Re: [Balin] But then the kid woke up

PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 7:04 pm
by GalFisk
Did they not find Martin's fingerprints on: a weapon? A crime scene? On Martin's own fingers? On file? Falsifying fingerprints relevant? Copying? Removing from object/surface? Removing from own fingers? Gloves relevant? Amputation?

Re: [Balin] But then the kid woke up

PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 8:09 pm
by Balin
Did they not find Martin's fingerprints on: a weapon? A crime scene? On Martin's own fingers? On file? None of these
Falsifying fingerprints relevant? Copying? Removing from object/surface? This Removing from own fingers? Gloves relevant? Amputation?

Re: [Balin] But then the kid woke up

PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 10:57 am
by GalFisk
Did they find: nothing? Smeared/unreadable fingerprints? DNA? Traces of the removal process? Such as abrasion marks? Chemical remnants? Did Martin remove his fingerprints? Were the fingerprints of others also removed? Is another case where fingerprint removal happened relevant?
WAG: had Martin been connected to another crime where fingerprints had been removed, and they saw that the same tools, chemicals or methods had been used again? If so, could they trace those tools, chemicals or methods to Martin, or at least more strongly suspect him than others?

Re: [Balin] But then the kid woke up

PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 11:44 am
by Balin
Did they find: nothing? In regards to Martin's prints, correct - they found none of his prints Smeared/unreadable fingerprints? DNA? Traces of the removal process? Such as abrasion marks? Chemical remnants?
Did Martin remove his fingerprints? From the object, yes. From his fingers, no Were the fingerprints of others also removed? No Is another case where fingerprint removal happened relevant? No
WAG: had Martin been connected to another crime where fingerprints had been removed, and they saw that the same tools, chemicals or methods had been used again? If so, could they trace those tools, chemicals or methods to Martin, or at least more strongly suspect him than others? I like this idea, but No

Re: [Balin] But then the kid woke up

PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 11:57 am
by LemonCurry
Did they relevantly find Martin's fingerprints on another object?

Re: [Balin] But then the kid woke up

PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 10:52 pm
by Balin
Did they relevantly find Martin's fingerprints on another object? No

Re: [Balin] But then the kid woke up

PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 5:54 pm
by GalFisk
Was the lack of fingerprints suspicious? Would his fingerprints normally be where they searched for them if he had not deliberately wiped them off?

Re: [Balin] But then the kid woke up

PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 7:38 am
by LemonCurry
Did he police know Martin had touched the object?

Re: [Balin] But then the kid woke up

PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 5:52 pm
by Balin
Was the lack of fingerprints suspicious? Yes Would his fingerprints normally be where they searched for them if he had not deliberately wiped them off? Yes, see below

Did he police know Martin had touched the object? Yes

Re: [Balin] But then the kid woke up

PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 7:56 pm
by hoodie
Is the object something that should always normally have fingerprints on it, such as a doorknob?

Re: [Balin] But then the kid woke up

PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 8:51 pm
by Earnest
Is the object a weapon? Would his fingerprints have exonerated him? Like he said he was playing the piano but police did not find his fingerprints on the keys?

Re: [Balin] But then the kid woke up

PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2019 1:56 pm
by Balin
Is the object something that should always normally have fingerprints on it, such as a doorknob? No

Is the object a weapon? No Would his fingerprints have exonerated him? Not directly Like he said he was playing the piano but police did not find his fingerprints on the keys? No, but you have a bit of the idea

Re: [Balin] But then the kid woke up

PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2019 2:16 pm
by GalFisk
If the fingerprints had not been wiped off, would his be on there? Nicole's? Valerie's? Someone else's? Were they wiped from metal? Plastic? Wood? Glass? Stone? Fabric? A keypad? A handle? A tool? Multiple objects? A room?

Re: [Balin] But then the kid woke up

PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2019 9:55 pm
by Balin
If the fingerprints had not been wiped off, would his be on there? Nicole's? Valerie's? Someone else's? His and Valerie's, although Valerie's were still found
Were they wiped from metal? Plastic? Wood? Glass? Stone? Fabric? None of these materials A keypad? A handle? Yes, among other parts of the object A tool? Multiple objects? A room? No to rest

Re: [Balin] But then the kid woke up

PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 1:35 pm
by GalFisk
Rubber? Leather? Ceramics? Plant material? Teeth? Bone? Horn? Is the handle for lifting? Holding? Swinging? Aiming? Steering? Keeping oneself steady? Opening? Closing? Locking?

Re: [Balin] But then the kid woke up

PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2019 10:28 pm
by Balin
Rubber? Leather? This Ceramics? Plant material? Teeth? Bone? Horn?
Is the handle for lifting? Holding? These two Swinging? Aiming? Steering? Keeping oneself steady? Opening? Closing? Locking?

Re: [Balin] But then the kid woke up

PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2019 6:29 am
by GalFisk
Is it a bag? Suitcase? Case for a heavy object? Such as typewriter? Sewing machine?

Re: [Balin] But then the kid woke up

PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2019 1:10 pm
by Balin
Is it a bag? Suitcase? Yes, specifically a large briefcase Case for a heavy object? Such as typewriter? Sewing machine?

Re: [Balin] But then the kid woke up

PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2019 10:10 pm
by trebor
Was Valerie working with Martin or the other culprit to commit a crime? Was she involved in the kidnapping of Nicole? Is her profession relevant? Is Martin’s profession (other than kidnapper/murderer) relevant? If Nicole had not been kidnapped would Valerie have been killed? Is anybody involved a spy?

Re: [Balin] But then the kid woke up

PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2019 7:09 pm
by Balin
Was Valerie working with Martin or the other culprit to commit a crime? Was she involved in the kidnapping of Nicole? No to both
Is her profession relevant? Is Martin’s profession (other than kidnapper/murderer) relevant? No to both
If Nicole had not been kidnapped would Valerie have been killed? No
Is anybody involved a spy? No

Re: [Balin] But then the kid woke up

PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 2:01 am
by Balin
RECAP:

Nicole is kidnapped and Valerie is killed. The culprits are caught when the police do not find Martin's fingerprints. How?

-There are two culprits. One of them is Martin; the other is a woman.
-Valerie was not involved in the crimes (other than as a victim).
-Martin's fingerprints should have been found on a briefcase, but were not. This tipped off the police.

Re: [Balin] But then the kid woke up

PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 3:04 am
by trebor
Is it relevant what was in the briefcase?

Re: [Balin] But then the kid woke up

PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 4:13 pm
by Balin
Is it relevant what was in the briefcase? A bit, Yes

Re: [Balin] But then the kid woke up

PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 4:48 pm
by GalFisk
Did it have: documents? Clothing? Office equipment? Kindnapping equipment? Murder equipment? Nothing? Traces of something?

Re: [Balin] But then the kid woke up

PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 8:22 pm
by Balin
Did it have: documents? Clothing? Office equipment? Kindnapping equipment? Murder equipment? Nothing? Traces of something? None of these

Re: [Balin] But then the kid woke up

PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 9:21 pm
by GalFisk
Drugs? Money? Electronics? Something used for work? Crime? Travel? Fun?

Re: [Balin] But then the kid woke up

PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2019 7:33 pm
by Balin
Drugs? Money? This Electronics? Something used for work? Crime? Travel? Fun?

Re: [Balin] But then the kid woke up

PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2019 8:38 pm
by GalFisk
Money: ransom? Drug money? Other crime money? Regular spending money? Money for an especially big purchase?

Re: [Balin] But then the kid woke up

PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2019 8:57 pm
by Balin
Money: ransom? This Drug money? Other crime money? Regular spending money? Money for an especially big purchase?

Re: [Balin] But then the kid woke up

PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 4:50 pm
by GalFisk
Did they expect the case to have fingerprints from: kidnappers? Victims? Couriers/middlemen? Police? Does Martin pretend to be a victim? To be someone who shouldn't care about fingerprints?

Re: [Balin] But then the kid woke up

PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 5:02 am
by trebor
Is there someone we've yet to discover who is involved? Perhaps the person who paid the ransom?

Did the briefcase change hands between Valerie and Mark? Between a victim paying the ransom and either V or M? Another time?

Re: [Balin] But then the kid woke up

PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 12:11 pm
by Balin
Did they expect the case to have fingerprints from: kidnappers? Victims? Yope, DOYD Couriers/middlemen? Also Yope, DOYD - No to rest Police? Does Martin pretend to be a victim? If you mean "does he pretend to have been kidnapped," No To be someone who shouldn't care about fingerprints? No

Is there someone we've yet to discover who is involved? No - there are just the three people involved Perhaps the person who paid the ransom? This person has not been named, nor has one other key role

Did the briefcase change hands between Valerie and Mark? Indirectly Between a victim paying the ransom and either V or M? See previous Another time? Yope

Re: [Balin] But then the kid woke up

PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 10:13 pm
by Balin
HINT: Aside from the police, there are only three people involved.

Re: [Balin] But then the kid woke up

PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 8:58 am
by GalFisk
I'm confused.
Nicole is kidnapped.
Valerie is not a criminal, but is killed.
There are two criminals, Martin and a woman.
There are only three people involved aside from the cops.
Is Nicole a criminal? Is Nicole and Valerie the same person?

Re: [Balin] But then the kid woke up

PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 12:46 pm
by Balin
I'm confused.
Nicole is kidnapped.
Valerie is not a criminal, but is killed.
There are two criminals, Martin and a woman.
There are only three people involved aside from the cops.
These are all correct.

Is Nicole a criminal? Yes! Is Nicole and Valerie the same person? No

Re: [Balin] But then the kid woke up

PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 2:18 pm
by GalFisk
Is Nicole in on the kidnapping scheme? Or is she held against her will? Does Martin pay the ransom? Receive the ransom? Relevant how the money for the ransom was procured? Does Nicole pay the ransom? Does Valerie? Is Valerie killed to silence a witness? To serve as a decoy? To make someone think Nicole was killed? Is an insurance scam relevant?

Re: [Balin] But then the kid woke up

PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 6:51 pm
by trebor
Aside from the police, there are only three people involved. Does Martin pay the ransom? Does Valerie? Does Nicole?

Re: [Balin] But then the kid woke up

PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 9:00 pm
by Balin
Is Nicole in on the kidnapping scheme? Yes Or is she held against her will? Does Martin pay the ransom? He helps; see below Receive the ransom? No Relevant how the money for the ransom was procured? Yes Does Nicole pay the ransom? No Does Valerie? Yes, with Martin's help Is Valerie killed to silence a witness? No To serve as a decoy? NoTo make someone think Nicole was killed? No Is an insurance scam relevant? No (but good guess)

Aside from the police, there are only three people involved. Does Martin pay the ransom? Does Valerie? Does Nicole? Valerie with Martin's help, see above

Re: [Balin] But then the kid woke up

PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2019 6:15 am
by GalFisk
Is Valerie killed in order to get the money? Does she sacrifice herself? Does Martin kill her? Nicole? Does she kill herself? Is it Valerie's money?

Re: [Balin] But then the kid woke up

PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2019 6:24 pm
by trebor
Was it the plan all along that Valerie would wind up dead?

Re: [Balin] But then the kid woke up

PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:18 pm
by Balin
Is Valerie killed in order to get the money? Yes Does she sacrifice herself? No
Does Martin kill her? Nicole? This Does she kill herself?
Is it Valerie's money? Yes

Was it the plan all along that Valerie would wind up dead? Yes!

Re: [Balin] But then the kid woke up

PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 2:36 am
by trebor
Were Martin’s fingerprints not on the briefcase because he cleaned them off of it? Because Nicole did? Because Valerie did? Because of something that happened to the briefcase?

Are the three of them related? Are two of them? If so, are they married? Siblings? Other immediate family? Extended family? Are they friends? Co-workers? Former partners? Was Valerie’s profession relevant? Was Nicole’s? Martin’s? Has Valerie ever held a position of authority over either M or N?

Re: [Balin] But then the kid woke up

PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2019 4:31 pm
by Balin
Were Martin’s fingerprints not on the briefcase because he cleaned them off of it? This Because Nicole did? Because Valerie did? Because of something that happened to the briefcase?

Are the three of them related? Are two of them? If so, are they married? Siblings? Other immediate family? Extended family? Are they friends? Co-workers? Former partners? Their exact relationships aren't important, but let's say Nicole and Valerie are sisters, and Martin and Valerie are married.
Was Valerie’s profession relevant? Was Nicole’s? Martin’s? No to all
Has Valerie ever held a position of authority over either M or N? No

Re: [Balin] But then the kid woke up

PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2019 6:50 pm
by GalFisk
Is Valerie killed before the ransom is paid? After? During? Is the murder made out to look like something specific? If so: a robbery? A suicide? A disappearance?

Re: [Balin] But then the kid woke up

PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2019 9:12 pm
by Balin
Is Valerie killed before the ransom is paid? After? During? This
Is the murder made out to look like something specific? This If so: a robbery? This, but a deliberate murder/theft A suicide? A disappearance?

Re: [Balin] But then the kid woke up

PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2019 12:42 am
by trebor
So Martin and Nicole faked a kidnapping and got Valerie to pay the ransom? When she paid the ransom, is that when Martin’s fingerprints got on the briefcase? Is that the time that the police saw Martin touch the briefcase? Is it relevant how the police came into possession of the briefcase to see that M’s prints weren’t on it?

Re: [Balin] But then the kid woke up

PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2019 4:10 am
by GalFisk
Was Martin with Valerie when she was killed? Did Nicole relevantly touch the briefcase? Did Martin tell the police that he was helping Valerie with paying the ransom?

Re: [Balin] But then the kid woke up

PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2019 12:44 pm
by Balin
So Martin and Nicole faked a kidnapping and got Valerie to pay the ransom? Yes When she paid the ransom, is that when Martin’s fingerprints got on the briefcase? During the entire process of paying the ransom, Yes Is that the time that the police saw Martin touch the briefcase? They didn't Is it relevant how the police came into possession of the briefcase to see that M’s prints weren’t on it? It may help

Was Martin with Valerie when she was killed? No Did Nicole relevantly touch the briefcase? Yes, but with gloves on Did Martin tell the police that he was helping Valerie with paying the ransom? Yes

I think you have enough of the pieces to put together now.

Re: [Balin] But then the kid woke up

PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:45 pm
by Balin
Actually, that's probably enough where I can call it.

****SPOILER****

Nicole and Martin colluded to rob and kill his wife Valerie. They faked Nicole's kidnapping and sent a ransom note to Valerie, demanding a large sum of money brought in cash in a suitcase. Martin helped Valerie pack the money, and wiped his prints off the case as he loaded the suitcase into her car.
When Valerie went to the ransom drop, Nicole shot her, emptied the money out of the suitcase, and left. The police found the suitcase at the scene and found only Valerie's fingerprints on it. But Martin made the mistake of telling the police he'd helped Valerie load the money, meaning his prints should have been on it. This placed Martin under suspicion and the plot was uncovered.