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[Lynne] Vegetarian

PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 12:37 pm
by Lynne
Being vegetarian brought his downfall.

Re: [Lynne] Vegetarian

PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 1:27 pm
by GalFisk
Downfall from: power? Wealth? Honor? Freedom? Being alive? A height?
Him: H? A? M?
Relevant what he ate? Didn't eat? Relevant why he was a vegetarian? Did he get sick?

Re: [Lynne] Vegetarian

PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 2:38 pm
by Lynne
Galfisk

Downfall from: power? Wealth? Honor? Freedom? Being alive? This one A height?
Him: H? A? M? Yes
Relevant what he ate? Not particularly Didn't eat? Suffice it to say he didn't eat meat Relevant why he was a vegetarian? No Did he get sick? no

Re: [Lynne] Vegetarian

PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 4:12 pm
by GalFisk
Did he become injured? Did he die by accident? Murder? Suicide? Old age? War? A medical condition? Did he die from never eating meat? From not eating meat at a particular time? From eating something others didn't? Did he relevantly anger someone? Go somewhere in search for food? Did he relevantly not hunt? Not know how to hunt? Not know something about meat? About animals? Did this happen in modern times? Relevant where int he world it happened?

Re: [Lynne] Vegetarian

PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 4:29 pm
by Lynne
Galfisk

Did he become injured?
Did he die by accident?
Murder?
Suicide?
Old age?
War?
A medical condition?
Did he die from never eating meat?
From not eating meat at a particular time? No to all the above

From eating something others didn't? Yes
Did he relevantly anger someone? Yessish
Go somewhere in search for food? No
Did he relevantly not hunt? No
Not know how to hunt? No
know something about meat? No
About animals? No
Did this happen in modern times? No
Relevant where int he world it happened? England

Re: [Lynne] Vegetarian

PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 4:35 pm
by GalFisk
Did he die from animal attack? Violence? A trap? Did he steal something? Did he relevantly (to his death) eat: root veggies? Leaf veggies? Berries? Fruit? Mushrooms? Dairy? Spices? Tofu? A raw food? Prepared food? Food bought from a store?
Edit: after relevantly eating, did he die within seconds? Minutes? Hours? Days? Weeks? Years? Decades? Did he die before he got to eat it? While eating?

Re: [Lynne] Vegetarian

PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 4:42 pm
by Lynne
Galfisk

Did he die from animal attack? Violence? A trap? Did he steal something? Did he relevantly (to his death) eat: root veggies? Leaf veggies? Berries? Fruit? Mushrooms? Dairy? Spices? Tofu? A raw food? No to all of these
Prepared food? this Food bought from a store? no
Edit: after relevantly eating, did he die within seconds? Minutes? Hours? Days? Weeks? Weeks is closest Years? Decades? Did he die before he got to eat it? no While eating? no

Re: [Lynne] Vegetarian

PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 4:47 pm
by GalFisk
Prepared food from: a restaurant? Stand? Friend? Family member? Something he prepared himself? Something made in a factory? Did others relevantly eat this food? Did he relevantly complain about the food? Make a special order for the food? Meat substitutes relevant?

Re: [Lynne] Vegetarian

PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 4:48 pm
by Lynne
Relevant what he ate? Not particularly


To clarify - it wasn't particularly relevant what his normal diet was. What he ate to cause his downfall was very relevant.

Re: [Lynne] Vegetarian

PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 4:49 pm
by Lynne
Galfisk

Prepared food from: a restaurant? Stand? Friend? Family member? no to all

Something he prepared himself? yes

Something made in a factory? Did others relevantly eat this food? Did he relevantly complain about the food? Make a special order for the food? Meat substitutes relevant? no to all

Re: [Lynne] Vegetarian

PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 5:10 pm
by GalFisk
Did he prepare it at home? Was it prepared in a skillet? Oven? Toaster? Pot? Bowl? Was it fried? Cooked? Heated? Crisped? Boiled? Mixed? Cut? Puréed? Burnt? Was there something wrong with it? Relevant where he got the ingredients? Did he use any noisy machinery to prepare it? Cause any relevant odors? Annoy someone?

Re: [Lynne] Vegetarian

PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 5:19 pm
by Lynne
Galfisk

Did he prepare it at home? yes Was it prepared in a skillet? Oven? This Toaster? Pot? Bowl? Was it fried? Possibly Cooked? yes Heated? Crisped? possibly Boiled? possibly Mixed? Cut? yes Puréed? Burnt? possibly The method of cooking isn't detailed so I'm giving my best guesses

Was there something wrong with it? Noish Relevant where he got the ingredients? yes Did he use any noisy machinery to prepare it? possibly n/r Cause any relevant odors? possibly n/r Annoy someone? yessish

Re: [Lynne] Vegetarian

PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 5:44 pm
by Lynne
Beware a FA throughout.

Re: [Lynne] Vegetarian

PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 11:35 pm
by trebor
Just in case, is the vegetarian the person who dies in the opening statement?

Assuming so, is he royalty? Someone famous? Is his profession relevant? Did someone else prepare the food for him? Did whoever made the food intend for it to be eaten? By this person? Did they intend for it to kill this person?

Was the food a signal?

Re: [Lynne] Vegetarian

PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 12:11 am
by Lynne
Trebor

Just in case, is the vegetarian the person who dies in the opening statement? yes

Assuming so, is he royalty? Someone famous? Is his profession relevant? Did someone else prepare the food for him? no to all
Did whoever made the food intend for it to be eaten? yes By this person? yes Did they intend for it to kill this person? no

Was the food a signal? no

Re: [Lynne] Vegetarian

PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 4:25 am
by GalFisk
Is the FA about the food? The vegetarian? The death? The importance of the food? Are the ingredients from a store? Does he die from: cold? Heat? Fire? Explosion? Radiation? Poison? Venom? Suffocation? Strangulation? Inhalation? Drowning? Blood loss? Decapitation? Blunt force? Sharp force? Impact? Fall? Crash? Crushing? Hunger? Thirst? Disease? Injury? Illness? Organ failure? Shock? Electrocution? Burns? Infection? Nutrition relevant?

Re: [Lynne] Vegetarian

PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 7:03 am
by Lynne
Galfisk

Is the FA about the food? yes The vegetarian? in part The death? it would help to find what happened The importance of the food? very Are the ingredients from a store? no Does he die from: cold? Heat? Fire? Explosion? Radiation? Poison? Venom? Suffocation? Strangulation? yes Inhalation? Drowning? Blood loss? Decapitation? Blunt force? Sharp force? Impact? Fall? and this Crash? Crushing? Hunger? Thirst? Disease? Injury? in a manner of speaking Illness? Organ failure? Shock? Electrocution? Burns? Infection? Nutrition relevant? no to rest

Re: [Lynne] Vegetarian

PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 7:20 am
by Earnest
Sorry for jumping in...

To be sure: did he eat meat? Has he ever relevantly eaten meat? If not, did he eat it for the first time during the puzzle? He died weeks later due to the vegetarian food prepared weeks before right? Is cooking timing relevant? Is someone else (vegetarian as well?) relevant in this puzzle? Did a plant grow in his stomach (creepy ahhahahaa)? Are chemicals in fruit/vegetables relevant?
Boiling relevant? Usage of kitchen items relevant?

Strangulation = someone killed him? Food killed him?
His = HAM right? Is the food that he prepared usually done with meat? is it a vegetarian version of a "meat based" food? Did he steal vegetables from a vegetable garden? Are vegetable gardens relevant? Feeding plants with water? Burns (e.g. he grew plants in his house so that when a burn happened the fire spread more rapidly)?
Had he eaten meat: he would not have cooked the way he did? He would not have done something? He would have done something? He would relevantly have bought meat? He would relevantly be used to eat meat/ham? He would have relevantly overcome a physical problem?

Re: [Lynne] Vegetarian

PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 7:42 am
by GalFisk
Does he live with someone? Relevant? Neighbors relevant? Are animals relevant? Other humans? Machines? Vehicles? Does he relevantly avoid non-food animal products? Such as leather? Silk?

Re: [Lynne] Vegetarian

PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 7:43 am
by Lynne
Earnest

Sorry for jumping in... no problem, welcome

To be sure: did he eat meat? he was a vegetarian Has he ever relevantly eaten meat? but YES If not, did he eat it for the first time during the puzzle? yes He died weeks later due to the vegetarian food prepared weeks before right? yep Is cooking timing relevant? no Is someone else (vegetarian as well? i/r ) relevant in this puzzle? yes Did a plant grow in his stomach (creepy ahhahahaa)? nope Are chemicals in fruit/vegetables relevant?
Boiling relevant? Usage of kitchen items relevant? no to rest

Strangulation = someone killed him? yes Food killed him? no
His = HAM right? yes Is the food that he prepared usually done with meat?it would be misleading to say yes or no is it a vegetarian version of a "meat based" food? no Did he steal vegetables from a vegetable garden? Are vegetable gardens relevant? Feeding plants with water? Burns (e.g. he grew plants in his house so that when a burn happened the fire spread more rapidly)? no to rest
Had he eaten meat: he would not have cooked the way he did? he did eat meat on this occasion but the method of cooking is irrelevant He would not have done something? He would have done something? no to these He would relevantly have bought meat? NO He would relevantly be used to eat meat/ham? He would have relevantly overcome a physical problem? no to rest

Re: [Lynne] Vegetarian

PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 7:45 am
by Lynne
Galfisk

Does he live with someone? yope Relevant? yes Neighbors relevant? Are animals relevant? no to these Other humans? yes Machines? Vehicles? no to these Does he relevantly avoid non-food animal products? Such as leather? Silk? i/r

Re: [Lynne] Vegetarian

PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 11:49 am
by GalFisk
Does he sometimes live with someone? Date someone? Have a vistor? Visit someone? Is one human besides himself relevant? Two? More?

Re: [Lynne] Vegetarian

PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 12:42 pm
by Lynne
Galfusk

Does he sometimes live with someone? no Date someone? no Have a vistor? no Visit someone? no
Is one human besides himself relevant? Two? More? This

Re: [Lynne] Vegetarian

PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 1:38 pm
by GalFisk
Three? Four? Lots? A group? Two groups? More than two groups? Is his job relevant? Coworkers? Relevant what sort of home he lives in? Does he die at home? Is he strangled by a rope? Wire? Article of clothing? Is he executed? Hanged? Dragged by the neck? Has he committed a crime? If so, did he commit it because he was a vegetarian? Get found out because he was a vegetarian?

Re: [Lynne] Vegetarian

PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 1:47 pm
by Lynne
Just to say that I'm having a lot of problems with the Error page showing up. I've just lost my answers so bear with me

Re: [Lynne] Vegetarian

PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 1:49 pm
by Earnest
Religion/culture relevant? Were the someone else vegetarian as well? Did he know it was meat? If not, relevant how he discovered it? Did he discover it as soon as he ate the meat? Did he voluntarily cook meat? If so, did he know how to cook it properly? Did he cook it for someone else? Was it evident that it was meat the one he ate? If so, as soon as he ate it? Did the someone who killed him eat what he cooked? Was the killer present when Calvin (can we call the main characther like that?) ate meat? Did nobody suspect that he ate meat because he was vegetarian when instead he ate it? Was he killed for that reason? Did the someone kill him because he ate the meat? Did the killer strangled Calvin with his hands with the clear intent to kill him? Or maybe the killer suffocated Calvin by giving him a piece of ham which chugged along (hope it is correct)?

Swallowing relevant? Throwing up relevant? Digestion? Physical changes due to the fact that it was the first time he ate meat?

Was the meat edible? Expiration date relevant? Conservation of meat relevant? Did the meat belong to an animal whose meat is often eaten by common people (or for instance to an animal present in fruit like a worm in an apple)? To fish?

Re: [Lynne] Vegetarian

PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 1:50 pm
by Lynne
Galfisk

Three? Four? Lots? A group? Two groups? Yes. 4 people initially and then lots more.

More than two groups? Is his job relevant? no Coworkers?

Relevant what sort of home he lives in? To a certain extent, yes Does he die at home? no Is he strangled by a rope? Wire? Article of clothing? Is he executed? Hanged? This one Dragged by the neck? Has he committed a crime? YES If so, did he commit it because he was a vegetarian? no Get found out because he was a vegetarian? YES

Re: [Lynne] Vegetarian

PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 1:56 pm
by Lynne
Earnest

Religion/culture relevant? no Were the someone else vegetarian as well? i/rDid he know it was meat? yes If not, relevant how he discovered it? Did he discover it as soon as he ate the meat? he knew already Did he voluntarily cook meat? yes If so, did he know how to cook it properly? yes Did he cook it for someone else? no Was it evident that it was meat the one he ate? yes If so, as soon as he ate it? Did the someone who killed him eat what he cooked? no Was the killer present when Calvin (can we call the main characther like that?) ate meat? no Did nobody suspect that he ate meat because he was vegetarian when instead he ate it? yope Was he killed for that reason? no, we know he was hanged for his crime Did the someone kill him because he ate the meat? yes Did the killer strangled Calvin with his hands with the clear intent to kill him? no, he was hanged Or maybe the killer suffocated Calvin by giving him a piece of ham which chugged along (hope it is correct)? no

Swallowing relevant? Throwing up relevant? Digestion? no to these Physical changes due to the fact that it was the first time he ate meat? no

Was the meat edible? yes Expiration date relevant? Conservation of meat relevant? Did the meat belong to an animal whose meat is often eaten by common people (or for instance to an animal present in fruit like a worm in an apple)? no to all To fish? no

Re: [Lynne] Vegetarian

PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 2:02 pm
by GalFisk
Did he commit murder? Robbery? Theft? Infidelity? Blasphemy? Animal cruelty? Was he found out because of what he ate? Where he ate? Because he didn't have livestock? If so, type of livestock relevant? If so, pigs? Chickens? Cows? Did he eat meat in order to hide evidence? In order to pretend not being a vegetarian? While pretending to be someone else? Did someone see him eat meat, but everyone knew he never bought it?

Re: [Lynne] Vegetarian

PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 2:05 pm
by Lynne
Galfisk

Did he commit murder? YES Robbery? Theft? Infidelity? Blasphemy? Animal cruelty? Was he found out because of what he ate? yes but be careful
Where he ate? Because he didn't have livestock? If so, type of livestock relevant? If so, pigs? Chickens? Cows? Did he eat meat in order to hide evidence? no to all In order to pretend not being a vegetarian? no While pretending to be someone else? no Did someone see him eat meat, but everyone knew he never bought it? NO

Re: [Lynne] Vegetarian

PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 2:31 pm
by GalFisk
Did he hide the victim? Cook the victim? Eat the victim? Try to make the death look like something other than a murder? Try to pin it on someone else? Did other people relevantly know that he was a vegetarian? Did anyone relevantly know he ate meat? Did he ever relevantly turn down meat? Did he ever relevantly buy meat? Sell meat? Raise livestock? Relevant who the victim was? Did he murder his spouse? Parent? Child? A relative?

Re: [Lynne] Vegetarian

PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 2:48 pm
by Lynne
Galfisk

Did he hide the victim? no Cook the victim? YES Eat the victim? YES Try to make the death look like something other than a murder? [b]not actively, he just hid it Try to pin it on someone else? no Did other people relevantly know that he was a vegetarian? yes Did anyone relevantly know he ate meat? NO Did he ever relevantly turn down meat? Did he ever relevantly buy meat? no Sell meat? Raise livestock? no Relevant who the victim was? no Did he murder his spouse? Parent? Child? A relative? none of these

Part 2 to come

Re: [Lynne] Vegetarian

PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 2:58 pm
by GalFisk
Because he was a vegetarian, did he have relevant trouble with cooking the meat? With eating the meat? Did it make him sick? Relevant what he did with inedible parts of the body? Did anyone help him with the cooking? Wit the eating?

Re: [Lynne] Vegetarian

PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 3:01 pm
by Lynne
Part 2

In order to bring some direction to the questions I've split this into two parts.
RECAP AND PART TWO

We know that a known vegetarian has killed and eaten his house guest. Let's just call her his lady friend. One day she disappears but there is no suspicion about that as he just said that she'd moved on to South America, or was it South Africa? He couldn't remember. Weeks go by and the police are not involved as there is nothing to be suspicious about. Rather mysteriously, the man is seen to chop down a lot of trees on his land for no apparent reason and leaves them in neat log piles.

Miles away, two men are idly talking about this man, the two men being a salesman and a man he ended up sharing a flat with to save money on both sides. The non-working gentleman asks the salesman for a small amount of the product he sells. He is told no. Flash of inspiration - he knows that the lady friend had been killed and eaten and he can now prove it.

What gave the flesh eating vegetarian away?

Re: [Lynne] Vegetarian

PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 3:04 pm
by Lynne
Galfisk

Because he was a vegetarian, did he have relevant trouble with cooking the meat? no With eating the meat? YES Did it make him sick? Possibly n/r Relevant what he did with inedible parts of the body? We are not told but I would imagine he buried them Did anyone help him with the cooking? no Wit the eating? no

Re: [Lynne] Vegetarian

PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 3:51 pm
by GalFisk
Did eating it take a long time? Did he enjoy it less? Hate it? Did he put off eating it for a long time? Did the meat go bad? Did someone discover the human meat? Was his place searched?

Re: [Lynne] Vegetarian

PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 4:21 pm
by Lynne
Galfisk

Did eating it take a long time? about two weeksDid he enjoy it less? i/r Hate it? possibly Did he put off eating it for a long time? no Did the meat go bad? not relevantly Did someone discover the human meat? no Was his place searched? Yes but nothing untoward was found

Re: [Lynne] Vegetarian

PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2019 1:24 pm
by GalFisk
If he had not been a vegetarian, would he have relevantly eaten it quicker? Eaten it in some other fashion? In a different place?
Would he have chopped down the treas if he had not: murdered the woman? Eaten the woman? Done the above as a vegetarian? Does he chop down all his trees? Does he do it by himself? Relevant how the logs are piled? Relevant what he does with the branches and twigs? Relevant what type of threes they are? Can the men find proof of the murder because of the chopped down trees? I there evidence in the logs? Does the man chop down the trees in order to hide evidence?

Relevant what the salesman sells? If the other guy had gotten some of the product, would he have had his flash of inspiration? Is he told why his request is rejected? Has the vegetarian relevantly refused someone who wanted to taste a victim meal?

Re: [Lynne] Vegetarian

PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2019 2:06 pm
by Lynne
Galfisk

If he had not been a vegetarian, would he have relevantly eaten it quicker? no Eaten it in some other fashion? no In a different place? no
Would he have chopped down the treas if he had not: murdered the woman? no he wouldn't Eaten the woman? ditto Done the above as a vegetarian? no Does he chop down all his trees? There may have been others but these were sufficient for his purpose Does he do it by himself? yes Relevant how the logs are piled? no, just neatly Relevant what he does with the branches and twigs? no Relevant what type of threes they are? no, just manageable for one man to chop down Can the men find proof of the murder because of the chopped down trees? no! I there evidence in the logs? no Does the man chop down the trees in order to hide evidence? no

Relevant what the salesman sells? YES If the other guy had gotten some of the product, would he have had his flash of inspiration? no Is he told why his request is rejected? yes Has the vegetarian relevantly refused someone who wanted to taste a victim meal? no

Re: [Lynne] Vegetarian

PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2019 2:17 pm
by GalFisk
Does the reason for rejection give the spark of inspiration? Does the killer chop down the trees in order not to be found out? Relevant what he intends to do with the logs? Time between murdermeals and chopping: days? Weeks? Months? Years? Decades?
Does the salesman sell food? Drink? Cosmetics? Machinery? Electronics? A consumable? Something perishable? A substance? Clothing? Does the other guy ask for free product? Has the other guy relevantly interacted with the killer? Relevantly been refused something he asked for other than the product? Does the salesman travel?

Re: [Lynne] Vegetarian

PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2019 2:25 pm
by Lynne
Galfisk

Does the reason for rejection give the spark of inspiration? yes Does the killer chop down the trees in order not to be found out? no Relevant what he intends to do with the logs? he does nothing with them Time between murdermeals and chopping: days? Weeks? Months? Years? Decades? minutes
Does the salesman sell food? yes Drink? Cosmetics? Machinery? Electronics? A consumable? yes Something perishable? yes A substance? yes Clothing? no Does the other guy ask for free product? free or paid for is i/r Has the other guy relevantly interacted with the killer? no, just fascinated at the situation Relevantly been refused something he asked for other than the product? no Does the salesman travel? i/r

Re: [Lynne] Vegetarian

PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2019 3:12 pm
by LemonCurry
Does the salesman sell meat? something you eat with meat? Is it out of stock? Generally unavailable?

Has the killer relevantly cooked the victim's meat? Is any stench/smell relevant?

Re: [Lynne] Vegetarian

PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2019 4:20 pm
by Lynne
LemonCurry

Does the salesman sell meat? no something you eat with meat? yes Is it out of stock? no Generally unavailable? no

Has the killer relevantly cooked the victim's meat? yes Is any stench/smell relevant? no

Re: [Lynne] Vegetarian

PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2019 4:23 pm
by GalFisk
Do any relevant person know the killer is a vegetarian? Do any relevant person know the killer ate meat? Is the killer happy about chopping down the trees? Is he chopping them down in order to change something about his property? Is he doing it to gain an advantage? Is he doing it because he is searching for something? Because he don't want them to be seen? Because he wants to see something? Do the trees, while standing, relevantly attract animals? Provide shade? Obscure vision? Drop leaves or needles? Constitute a forest? Look pretty? Look ugly?

Re: [Lynne] Vegetarian

PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2019 4:29 pm
by LemonCurry
Does he sell spices? Herbs? Mushrooms? Is the substance in question toxic in large quantities? Has the killer eaten it? Overdosed on it? Did the toxic effect cause him to go chop down trees?

Re: [Lynne] Vegetarian

PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2019 4:44 pm
by Lynne
LemonCurry

Does he sell spices? Herbs? Mushrooms? t is possible that what he sold contained those

Is the substance in question toxic in large quantities? no Has the killer eaten it? yes Overdosed on it? no Did the toxic effect cause him to go chop down trees? no

You're honing on on the solution - a bit of inspiration and the solution is there.

Re: [Lynne] Vegetarian

PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2019 4:52 pm
by Lynne
Galfisk
Sorry, missed these

Do any relevant person know the killer is a vegetarian? yes Do any relevant person know the killer ate meat? no Is the killer happy about chopping down the trees? neutral about it but its for a purpose Is he chopping them down in order to change something about his property? no Is he doing it to gain an advantage? in a sense Is he doing it because he is searching for something? no Because he don't want them to be seen? no Because he wants to see something? no Do the trees, while standing, relevantly attract animals? no Provide shade? i/r Obscure vision? Drop leaves or needles? Constitute a forest? Look pretty? Look ugly? no or i/r to rest

Re: [Lynne] Vegetarian

PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2019 5:00 pm
by GalFisk
Type of trees relevant? Did the killer buy the substance from the salesman? Is it something that is only eaten with meat? Mostly eaten with meat? Did the salesman tell the other guy he had sold all of his supply? Promised to sell his supply? Did the killer use the substance to change the taste of the meat? Mask the taste of the meat?

Re: [Lynne] Vegetarian

PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2019 5:05 pm
by Lynne
Galfisk

Type of trees relevant? no, as long as they weren't too big for him chop on his own Did the killer buy the substance from the salesman? no Is it something that is only eaten with meat? YES Mostly eaten with meat? that too Did the salesman tell the other guy he had sold all of his supply? no Promised to sell his supply? no Did the killer use the substance to change the taste of the meat? YES Mask the taste of the meat? YES

Can you tie it altogether? (or should that be all together??)

Re: [Lynne] Vegetarian

PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2019 5:16 pm
by GalFisk
Did the killer chop down the trees in order to get this substance? Did the salesman say something about how the substance is made? What it's made from?

Re: [Lynne] Vegetarian

PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2019 5:22 pm
by Lynne
Galfisk

Did the killer chop down the trees in order to get this substance? no Did the salesman say something about how the substance is made? no What it's made from? no

Re: [Lynne] Vegetarian

PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2019 10:18 pm
by Balin
I know this one. PM on the way.

Re: [Lynne] Vegetarian

PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2019 11:01 pm
by Lynne
Balin

I know this one. PM on the way.

Thx, I'll look out for it

Re: [Lynne] Vegetarian

PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2019 11:58 pm
by trebor
I'm confused. Does the killer at any point ask the salesman for his product? Can we call the killer Kent, the salesman Sam, and the other guy Otto?

Has Otto had a relevant conversation with Kent? Does Kent set fire to the logs? Does he chop down the trees in order to sharpen his axe? Is smoke relevant? Is it relevant why Sam refuses Otto's request for the product? Is Otto a vegetarian? Is the product a condiment? Can it be used as a preservative? Was it salt, if there was a time when salt was used only for flavouring/preserving meat?

Re: [Lynne] Vegetarian

PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2019 6:24 am
by GalFisk
Cost of the substance relevant? Does anyone relevantly know Kent had the substance? Ate the substance? Would it have worked if Kent sawed down the trees? Hired someone to chop them down? Is Kent poor? Rich? Relevant? Is the substance cheap? Expensive? Hard to get? Would Kent chop down the trees if he hadn't used the substance with the meat?

Re: [Lynne] Vegetarian

PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2019 7:11 am
by Lynne
Trebor

I'm confused. Does the killer at any point ask the salesman for his product? No, just the gentleman (Otto) who shares a flat with the salesmanCan we call the killer Kent, the salesman Sam, and the other guy Otto? Sure, although the killer was once called Calvin so we can call him Calvin Kent

Has Otto had a relevant conversation with Kent? no Does Kent set fire to the logs? no Does he chop down the trees in order to sharpen his axe? no Is smoke relevant? no Is it relevant why Sam refuses Otto's request for the product? YES Is Otto a vegetarian? no Is the product a condiment? YES Can it be used as a preservative?no Was it salt, if there was a time when salt was used only for flavouring/preserving meat? no

Re: [Lynne] Vegetarian

PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2019 7:17 am
by Lynne
Galfisk

Cost of the substance relevant? no Does anyone relevantly know Kent had the substance? yes Ate the substance? yes Would it have worked if Kent sawed down the trees? yes Hired someone to chop them down? no Kent poor? Rich? either Relevant? no Is the substance cheap? relatively Expensive? no Hard to get? the salesman was making a good few sales but he got it from his local shop Would Kent chop down the trees if he hadn't used the substance with the meat? no

Re: [Lynne] Vegetarian

PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2019 7:39 am
by Lynne
Be careful to distinguish between the killer, i.e. the hangman, and the killer who killed and at his ladyfriend.

Re: [Lynne] Vegetarian

PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2019 9:14 am
by GalFisk
Is the hangman involved in the puzzle, apart from hanging the murderer? Did the substance make Kent want to shop down his trees? Does the substance have any relevant physical effects besides changing the taste of meat? Psychological effects? Did Sam refuse Otto's request because eating the substance would make him want to chop down trees? Does the substance taste sweet? Salty? Bitter? Hot? Cold? Savory? Is it a spice? Is it made from a plant? Mineral? Fungus? Animal? Milk?

Re: [Lynne] Vegetarian

PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2019 10:33 am
by Lynne
Galfisk

Is the hangman involved in the puzzle, apart from hanging the murderer? No, but he was alluded to earlier as the killer in the questions when trying to find out what the downfall actually meant. Can be set aside now.

Did the substance make Kent want to shop down his trees? no Does the substance have any relevant physical effects besides changing the taste of meat? no, it was just to change the taste of the meat Psychological effects? maybe in part i/r Did Sam refuse Otto's request because eating the substance would make him want to chop down trees? no Does the substance taste sweet? Salty? Bitter? Hot? Cold? Savory? Is it a spice? cold, sweet or sour, possibly spicy, we aren't told exactly. It does have a generic name. Is it made from a plant? in part maybe Mineral? Fungus? Animal? Milk? none of the rest to the best of my knowledge

Re: [Lynne] Vegetarian

PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2019 10:51 am
by GalFisk
Is the condiment a sauce? Is the condiment itself vegetarian? Does Otto know Kent ate it? Does Sam?
Does Sam tell Otto that it only goes with meat?
Would Kent chop down his trees if he used a different condiment? If he made the condiment himself instead of buying it? If nobody knew that he ate the condiment? If nobody knew the girl had been his tenant?
Does he chop down the trees for his own purposes? Because of someone else?
Are other people than Kent, Otto and Sam (and the victim, why don't we call her Viola) relevant?
Is anything about Viola when she was alive relevant? Relevant how he killed her? Why? When?
Did this happen in the 20th century? 19th? 18th? 17th? 16th? Earlier? Technology relevant?
Had Otto tried to sell the condiment to Kent?

Re: [Lynne] Vegetarian

PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2019 11:07 am
by Lynne
Galfisk

Is the condiment a sauce? of a sort but it's not cooked Is the condiment itself vegetarian? sometimes Does Otto know Kent ate it? YES Does Sam? not sure i/r
Does Sam tell Otto that it only goes with meat? YES
Would Kent chop down his trees if he used a different condiment? no If he made the condiment himself instead of buying it? no If nobody knew that he ate the condiment?no If nobody knew the girl had been his tenant? no
Does he chop down the trees for his own purposes? yes Because of someone else? no
Are other people than Kent, Otto and Sam (and the victim, why don't we call her Viola) relevant? only the local police who couldn't find anything incriminating
Is anything about Viola when she was alive relevant? no Relevant how he killed her? Why? When? i/r to all
Did this happen in the 20th century? early 20th century 19th? 18th? 17th? 16th? Earlier? Technology relevant? no
Had Otto tried to sell the condiment to Kent? no he bought it locally

Re: [Lynne] Vegetarian

PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2019 11:42 am
by GalFisk
Relevant how Otto knows Kent ate a meat-only condiment?
Does Kent know that Otto knows this?
Does Kent know that someone knows this?
Does Kent want people to believe he didn't eat any meat? To belive he is no longer a vegetarian? Does he chop down the trees to make a point? Show a skill?
Can Otto prove that Kent killed and ate Viola by coming up with forensic evidence? By proving Kent's story false? By confronting Kent?
If Kent had not chopped down the trees, would Otto be able to prove his guilt? Would otto have been able to make the logical leap?

Re: [Lynne] Vegetarian

PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2019 11:53 am
by LemonCurry
Has Otto seen Kent with some of the condiment? Have Otto and Kent talked about the condiment? Has Kent lied about it?

Re: [Lynne] Vegetarian

PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2019 11:56 am
by Lynne
LemonCurry

Has Otto seen Kent with some of the condiment? No, but he knows that he bought it Have Otto and Kent talked about the condiment? no ]Has Kent lied about it? no, he was never asked about it

Re: [Lynne] Vegetarian

PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2019 12:45 pm
by GalFisk
Did you forget mine?

Re: [Lynne] Vegetarian

PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2019 1:21 pm
by Lynne
Galfisk

So sorry, I missed these

Relevant how Otto knows Kent ate a meat-only condiment? yes - the salesman told him that the police knew about it from the grocer
Does Kent know that Otto knows this? no
Does Kent know that someone knows this? no
Does Kent want people to believe he didn't eat any meat? Probably, he doesn't realise his big error with the condimentTo belive he is no longer a vegetarian? no Does he chop down the trees to make a point? Show a skill? no to both
Can Otto prove that Kent killed and ate Viola by coming up with forensic evidence? no, he just takes his thoughts to the police who investigate further By proving Kent's story false? yes By confronting Kent? no
If Kent had not chopped down the trees, would Otto be able to prove his guilt? no Would otto have been able to make the logical leap? he did make that leap

I think that everything has been found out about the condiment (it does have another generic name, but it makes no difference). I could spoil it now, but if you want to work out why he was chopping down his trees, then do continue.

Re: [Lynne] Vegetarian

PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2019 7:35 am
by GalFisk
We've established that he chopped them down only for his own sake and not because of what anyone else says or thinks, right? And that the murder, the meals and this particular condiment are all factors in the decision to do so?
Is his profession relevant? Is his vegetarianism relevant? His conscience? His motive for the murder? Does he relevantly want to murder again? Not want to? Does he mainly want to get rid of the trees? To produce neat log piles? To physically exert himself? To use the wood? To prepare the land for other use?

Re: [Lynne] Vegetarian

PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2019 8:50 am
by Lynne
Galfisk

We've established that he chopped them down only for his own sake and not because of what anyone else says or thinks, right? correct And that the murder, the meals and this particular condiment are all factors in the decision to do so? yes
Is his profession relevant? no Is his vegetarianism relevant? in that it is the thing that gives him away - a carnivore could have done the same and not given himself away in the same way His conscience? His motive for the murder? Does he relevantly want to murder again? Not want to? no to these Does he mainly want to get rid of the trees? no To produce neat log piles? no To physically exert himself? YES To use the wood? no To prepare the land for other use? no

Re: [Lynne] Vegetarian

PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2019 2:07 pm
by GalFisk
Does he want to sweat? Get exhausted? Build muscles? Become hungry? Dis he want hunger to make the meat taste less foul? To help him eat it faster? Did the meat give him more energy? Better nutrition? Did his vegetarianism cause him any medical issues?

Re: [Lynne] Vegetarian

PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2019 3:03 pm
by Lynne
Galfisk

Does he want to sweat? Get exhausted? Build muscles? Become hungry? This one Dis he want hunger to make the meat taste less foul? and this To help him eat it faster? and this Did the meat give him more energy? Better nutrition? Did his vegetarianism cause him any medical issues? no to the rest


SPOLIER

This was taken from a short story called The Two Bottles of Relish, by Lord Dunsay. It has been declared to be one of ten top mystery stories even though it's not as well known as many others.

A known vegetarian has a ladyfriend stay with him. She disappears but no one worries about that for a while as he told everyone that she had gone to South Africa or South America. Some local police got suspicious (because they thought that vegetarianism was an oddity and therefore he must be up to no good!) and watched him but couldn't find anything to incriminate him. No smell of cooking. Only appeared three times a day when he was chopping his trees down.

Elsewhere, two gentlemen got to talking about this, one a salesman of relishes. It was only when the first gentleman asked the salesman for some relish to go with his salad and got the reply 'no, it's not for salad' that he realised that the vegetarian must have bought it to eat with meat. On questioning the grocer he discovered that he bought two jars about eight days apart, so it wasn't a one off purchase - he had presumably used the first jar up. But why, if he was a vegetarian?

The gentleman makes contact with the local police and the vegetarian is convicted (no further details in the story) and would be hanged.

The trees? Solely in order to build up an appetite.

That's how the story ended. Two minutes later it hit me - he had eaten his victim.


Well done Galfisk (and other contributors). You worked hard on this!

Re: [Lynne] Vegetarian EATEN UP

PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2019 6:56 pm
by Balin
I've read this story - it's in the collection of locked room mysteries which I've mined for puzzles - and it deserves its high praise. I've never before or since read a story where the twist is revealed, not just in the final line, but in the final word.

I could not find the text online but you can read a faithful adaptation, a script adapted for radio, here.

Re: [Lynne] Vegetarian EATEN UP

PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2019 9:55 pm
by Lynne
Balin - I just bought that compilation of Locked Room Mysteries for less than a pound.

This is the only story that I've read where the solution hit me two minutes after I read the last word!

Re: [Lynne] Vegetarian EATEN UP

PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 1:44 am
by Balin
I wondered if you might have gotten it from the same compilation! (The intro for that story mentions its having been voted one of the top 10 mysteries, which you mentioned in the spoiler.)

Glad you enjoyed the story - and the wham - as much as I did!

Re: [Lynne] Vegetarian EATEN UP

PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 10:07 am
by peter365
I love a story that ends with a boom like that. Sorry I missed this one Lynne.

Re: [Lynne] Vegetarian EATEN UP

PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 8:46 pm
by Lynne
Thank you Peter.