[Balin] Curl up with a good book

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[Balin] Curl up with a good book

Postby Balin » Thu Feb 28, 2019 10:36 pm

Why did developers add a book about monkeys to a video game?
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Re: [Balin] Curl up with a good book

Postby gregoryuconn » Thu Feb 28, 2019 11:22 pm

Did the video game have actual monkeys as well? Donkey Kong? Was the book about real monkeys? The monkeys in the video game? Other fictional monkeys? Is it based on a real book?
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Re: [Balin] Curl up with a good book

Postby Balin » Thu Feb 28, 2019 11:27 pm

Did the video game have actual monkeys as well? Yes Donkey Kong? No
Was the book about real monkeys? The monkeys in the video game? Monkeys in general - let's say "monkeys in the fictional universe of that game" Other fictional monkeys?
Is it based on a real book? No
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Re: [Balin] Curl up with a good book

Postby GalFisk » Fri Mar 01, 2019 6:27 am

Is it a fact book? Story book? Picture book? Were they compelled to do this by someone outside the company? Are the game monkeys protagonists? Antagonists? Neutral? Scenery?
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Re: [Balin] Curl up with a good book

Postby Earnest » Fri Mar 01, 2019 8:09 am

So the book is a "digital one" right? I mean, it is part of the video game? Of the cover? Tarzan relevant? Jungle book? Are we talking about a modern video game? Can we assume that the video game is for Playstation or Nintendo? Does the game exploit relevantly the internet? Is the book part of the options/menu of the game? Can the player choose not to open it? To open it?

Can the book be taken and read by the protagonist? Is the book active part of the video game ( I mean a part of action in which the player is required to fullfil a duty/mission or is it part of the "story telling" of the video game or maybe an image appearing during the buffering parts)? Is it crucial to have info about monkeys? If not, is ot crucial to "wait" some time in that part of the game (so that the book is just a way not to put just the "loading part")?
Is the video game the sequel of another one? Had the book been not present, would the video game have changed a lot? Would it have been possible to complete it? Does the book appear: at the beginning? At the very end? Randomly from time to time? In the middle of the game?

Are the reasons mainly connected to "game development" (e.g. avoiding a bug; allow a better video qualit; cover something)? Story correctness? Helping the player?

Was the video game inspired by a movie/book? If so, was the book present in the movie/book?
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Re: [Balin] Curl up with a good book

Postby gregoryuconn » Fri Mar 01, 2019 12:10 pm

Are the monkeys in the video game controlled by the player? Are they NPCs? Are they the protagonists of the video game? The antagonists? Some random NPCs that aren't that important? Can the monkeys be killed? If so, would players generally consider it a good thing if they were? Would they kill the monkeys themselves?

Is this video game for PlayStation? Xbox? Nintendo? PC? Online? Is it an MMORPG?
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Re: [Balin] Curl up with a good book

Postby Balin » Fri Mar 01, 2019 1:23 pm

So the book is a "digital one" right? Technically I mean, it is part of the video game? Yes Of the cover? Tarzan relevant? Jungle book? No to these
Are we talking about a modern video game? DOYD of "modern" - it's a game from the 1990s Can we assume that the video game is for Playstation or Nintendo? I think it was originally released for computers
Does the game exploit relevantly the internet? No
Is the book part of the options/menu of the game? No Can the player choose not to open it? To open it? Yes to both

Can the book be taken and read by the protagonist? Read, yes. I don't know if it can be taken
Is the book active part of the video game Yes (I mean a part of action in which the player is required to fullfil a duty/mission This or is it part of the "story telling" of the video game or maybe an image appearing during the buffering parts)?
Is it crucial to have info about monkeys? Yes If not, is ot crucial to "wait" some time in that part of the game (so that the book is just a way not to put just the "loading part")? No
Is the video game the sequel of another one? Yes (but irrel to the puzzle)
Had the book been not present, would the video game have changed a lot? No Would it have been possible to complete it? NO, or at least it would have been much more difficult
Does the book appear: at the beginning? At the very end? Randomly from time to time? In the middle of the game? I think it's somewhere in the middle. (I've never played the game in question)

Are the reasons mainly connected to "game development" (e.g. avoiding a bug; allow a better video qualit; cover something)? Story correctness? Helping the player? This

Was the video game inspired by a movie/book? No If so, was the book present in the movie/book?

Are the monkeys in the video game controlled by the player? Yope - they aren't player characters, but the monkey relevant to the puzzle is "controlled" by the player, Yes Are they NPCs? I'm not sure Are they the protagonists of the video game? The antagonists? Neither Some random NPCs that aren't that important? There's one that is important (to the puzzle)
Can the monkeys be killed? No If so, would players generally consider it a good thing if they were? Would they kill the monkeys themselves?

Is this video game for PlayStation? Xbox? Nintendo? PC? Online? Originally for computers, I think Is it an MMORPG? No
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Re: [Balin] Curl up with a good book

Postby Earnest » Fri Mar 01, 2019 3:01 pm

Jumanji relevant? Apes'planet (is it right?) Does the book contain info about moves/keys that the player should play in order to control monkeys? Monkeys'habits (e.g. monkeys usually stay on trees producing water/fruit)? Hierarchies? What they usually eat? Where they usually live? Are trees relevant? Forests? Monkeys' movements (e.g. they "migrate" in correspondence of an event)? Apes'language/communication? Does the book appear with the monkeys? Before? After? Relevant? Are experiments on animals relevant? Are the monkeys normal ones? Do they belong to a particular species? Are wars relevant? Monkeys used as kamikaze (creepy but I heard it was practiced somewhere)?

Is the goal of the mission to be completed relevant? Can it be completed just using monkeys? Are there also monkeys not controlled by the player? If so, are the monkeys controlled by the player used to domesticate the other ones? To communicate with them?
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Re: [Balin] Curl up with a good book

Postby raevenclaw » Sat Mar 02, 2019 4:31 pm

Relevant what type of game it is (e.g. point-and-click vs FPS vs. puzzle game)?

Is the important NPC human? a monkey? something else? Can the important NPC be controlled/told what to do? Do they just give information? something else?
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Re: [Balin] Curl up with a good book

Postby Balin » Mon Mar 04, 2019 7:02 pm

Jumanji relevant? No Apes'planet (is it right?) Planet of the Apes? No
Does the book contain info about moves/keys that the player should play in order to control monkeys? Yope Monkeys'habits (e.g. monkeys usually stay on trees producing water/fruit)? Hierarchies? What they usually eat? Where they usually live? Are trees relevant? Forests? Monkeys' movements (e.g. they "migrate" in correspondence of an event)? Apes'language/communication? No/Irrel to rest
Does the book appear with the monkeys? Before? I think this After? Relevant? A bit Are experiments on animals relevant? No Are the monkeys normal ones? Yes (keeping in mind that video game worlds do not operate under the same rules as the regular world) Do they belong to a particular species? No Are wars relevant? No Monkeys used as kamikaze (creepy but I heard it was practiced somewhere)? No

Is the goal of the mission to be completed relevant? Yes Can it be completed just using monkeys? You need a monkey to complete the task, Yes Are there also monkeys not controlled by the player? Yes If so, are the monkeys controlled by the player used to domesticate the other ones? No To communicate with them? No

Relevant what type of game it is (e.g. point-and-click vs FPS vs. puzzle game)? It's a point-and-click adventure game

Is the important NPC human? a monkey? This something else? Can the important NPC be controlled/told what to do? Yes, controlled Do they just give information? No something else? "Give" is the wrong word

Welcome back to the forum, rae!
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Re: [Balin] Curl up with a good book

Postby raevenclaw » Mon Mar 04, 2019 11:38 pm

glad to be back, balin!

is the goal of the mission to obtain an item? open a door? something else?
i'm assuming the monkey completes some task that a human cannot do, is that correct? if so, does the monkey climb something? go somewhere a human is too large to enter?
does the book give information about how to control the monkey (example: you need the monkey to climb over a wall, the book tells you monkeys love bananas, you throw a banana over the wall)?
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Re: [Balin] Curl up with a good book

Postby Balin » Tue Mar 05, 2019 1:46 am

is the goal of the mission to obtain an item? open a door? something else? Something else, but it is just a single task
i'm assuming the monkey completes some task that a human cannot do, is that correct? Yes if so, does the monkey climb something? go somewhere a human is too large to enter? Neither
does the book give information about how to control the monkey Yes (example: you need the monkey to climb over a wall, the book tells you monkeys love bananas, you throw a banana over the wall)? On track but not quite like this
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Re: [Balin] Curl up with a good book

Postby raevenclaw » Tue Mar 05, 2019 11:08 pm

is the information on how to control the monkey very obscure? is it something that would not work outside the video game (for instance, instructions on how to use a monkey mind control hat)?

relevant what kind of monkey it is?

does the monkey's task involve other monkeys? other people? does the monkey have to manipulate something to complete the task? does the monkey ever directly interact with the player character in doing the task? is the monkey aware it is being controlled by the player?
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Re: [Balin] Curl up with a good book

Postby Balin » Wed Mar 06, 2019 6:42 pm

is the information on how to control the monkey very obscure? Yope is it something that would not work outside the video game Oh, yes. (for instance, instructions on how to use a monkey mind control hat)? I like it, but not this

relevant what kind of monkey it is? No

does the monkey's task involve other monkeys? other people? No to both does the monkey have to manipulate something to complete the task? Yes does the monkey ever directly interact with the player character in doing the task? No, but the PC interacts with the monkey (and actually keeps the monkey in his inventory) is the monkey aware it is being controlled by the player? Irrel
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Re: [Balin] Curl up with a good book

Postby raevenclaw » Thu Mar 07, 2019 9:59 pm

okay, so here's what i've got so far:

the video game contains a book about monkeys (in the universe of the game), which the player can read. the book gives information about monkeys that would not apply in the real world, but does in the video game. using this information, the player is able to control a monkey to complete a single task, which does not involve climbing, going somewhere a human is too large to or other monkeys/people, but which a human could not accomplish.

is the exact information the book gives about video-game monkeys relevant? or is it just necessary to know that it would not apply to real-life monkeys?

did the developers play-test the game, and realize players were having difficulty getting past the monkey puzzle, since whatever information was in the book was (presumably) otherwise unintuitive?
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Re: [Balin] Curl up with a good book

Postby Balin » Fri Mar 08, 2019 1:09 pm

okay, so here's what i've got so far:

the video game contains a book about monkeys (in the universe of the game), which the player can read. the book gives information about monkeys that would not apply in the real world, but does in the video game. using this information, the player is able to control a monkey to complete a single task, which does not involve climbing, going somewhere a human is too large to or other monkeys/people, but which a human could not accomplish. Correct, with a caveat on "which a human could not accomplish"

is the exact information the book gives about video-game monkeys relevant? Yes or is it just necessary to know that it would not apply to real-life monkeys?

did the developers play-test the game, and realize players were having difficulty getting past the monkey puzzle, since whatever information was in the book was (presumably) otherwise unintuitive? Yes, and there's more relevant information along this line
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Re: [Balin] Curl up with a good book

Postby raevenclaw » Fri Mar 08, 2019 6:12 pm

ok, then i'm assuming there are some humans that could in fact accomplish the task, but the majority of humans would be unable to, is that correct? if so, could you tell if a particular human could or could not accomplish the task by looking at them? would the puzzle be easier, harder, or roughly the same difficulty if the player controlled a human instead of a monkey?

given that this is a point-and-click game, i'm assuming the player has some item in their inventory that they then use on the monkey, is that correct? or does the item get used on the environment around the monkey?
is it possible to avoid putting the item in your inventory, and thus not have the required item to solve the monkey puzzle? and thus reading the book clues you into the fact that that item is important, and you can either pick it up when you first get to it or backtrack to obtain it?

during the task, does the monkey move something from one place to another? push a button/flip a switch/lever/etc?
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Re: [Balin] Curl up with a good book

Postby Balin » Fri Mar 08, 2019 8:50 pm

ok, then i'm assuming there are some humans that could in fact accomplish the task, but the majority of humans would be unable to, is that correct? No, this isn't it
if so, could you tell if a particular human could or could not accomplish the task by looking at them? No would the puzzle be easier, harder, or roughly the same difficulty if the player controlled a human instead of a monkey? Ah, but the player does control a human! The PC is controlling the monkey.

given that this is a point-and-click game, i'm assuming the player has some item in their inventory that they then use on the monkey, is that correct? No, but explore! or does the item get used on the environment around the monkey? No
is it possible to avoid putting the item in your inventory, and thus not have the required item to solve the monkey puzzle? Yes, but the item is not permanently missable; one can fail to realize the item can/must be picked up and thus reading the book clues you into the fact that that item is important, and you can either pick it up when you first get to it or backtrack to obtain it? No, that's not the purpose of the book

during the task, does the monkey move something from one place to another? No push a button/flip a switch/lever/etc? Something in the "etc," Yes
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Re: [Balin] Curl up with a good book

Postby Earnest » Sat Mar 09, 2019 7:04 pm

Are bananas relevant? Food in general? Are images on the book relevant? Communication with the monkey? Can we assume that the scenario is a forest? A city? A zoo? A lab?
Is the aim of the human w.r.t. the monkey: to keep the monkey at a distance? Not to lose the monkey? To keep the monkey near? To protect the monkey? To press a button? To reach a place through the monkey?

Is the monkey free to move? In a cage? With other monkeys?

Is the monkey mainly in charge of: transporting something? Fighting enemies? Communicate with other monkeys? Smell? Jump? See tracks? Recognize trees? Be the bait? Go first? Go second? Take an object? Recognize the enemies? Be not rrcognized by a scan/x ray? Hide something?

Does the monkey belong to someone relevant? Is the mission to bring the monkey to someone? Is the mission to recover an object? An item? Something that felt in a relevant place and that can be recovered just with the help of the monkey?
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Re: [Balin] Curl up with a good book

Postby raevenclaw » Sun Mar 10, 2019 1:55 am

oops, i think i phrased the question confusingly. if instead of controlling a monkey, the player controlled another human, would the human find it easier, harder, or about the same difficulty? that is, is the task uniquely suited to having a monkey do it?

does the item have it's own controls (example: a remote control which you can look at in a more detailed view, and interact with) which then affects the monkey without having to directly use it on said monkey? does the monkey act differently depending whether or not the player has the item in their inventory (example: player has a banana in their pocket, monkey moves towards them, player doesn't have banana in their pocket, monkey avoids them)
is the item described in the book about monkeys? if so, does the book directly tell the player that it can be used to manipulate the monkey?
would the average player pick up the item if they didn't read the book? does the player read the book before or after obtaining the item?
is the item some kind of technology (such as the aforementioned monkey mind control hat)? food? if food, is it a kind of food that exists only in the game?
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Re: [Balin] Curl up with a good book

Postby Westing1992 » Wed Mar 13, 2019 1:08 am

Is the game The Secret of Monkey Island or any of its sequels?
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Re: [Balin] Curl up with a good book

Postby Balin » Thu Mar 14, 2019 1:54 am

Are bananas relevant? Food in general? Are images on the book relevant? Communication with the monkey? No to all
Can we assume that the scenario is a forest? A city? A zoo? A lab? It's an island setting, see (far) below
Is the aim of the human w.r.t. the monkey: to keep the monkey at a distance? Not to lose the monkey? To keep the monkey near? To protect the monkey? To press a button? To reach a place through the monkey? None of these; "press a button" is closest

Is the monkey free to move? Yesish In a cage? No With other monkeys? No

Is the monkey mainly in charge of: transporting something? Fighting enemies? Communicate with other monkeys? Smell? Jump? See tracks? Recognize trees? Be the bait? Go first? Go second? Take an object? Recognize the enemies? Be not rrcognized by a scan/x ray? Hide something? None of these; "press a button" is still closest

Does the monkey belong to someone relevant? No Is the mission to bring the monkey to someone? No Is the mission to recover an object? An item? Neither Something that felt in a relevant place and that can be recovered just with the help of the monkey? No

oops, i think i phrased the question confusingly. if instead of controlling a monkey, the player controlled another human, Ah, but the player does control a human! That human PC controls the monkey. would the human find it easier, harder, or about the same difficulty? that is, is the task uniquely suited to having a monkey do it? ...Yes, but not in the way you likely think

does the item have it's own controls (example: a remote control which you can look at in a more detailed view, and interact with) which then affects the monkey without having to directly use it on said monkey? does the monkey act differently depending whether or not the player has the item in their inventory (example: player has a banana in their pocket, monkey moves towards them, player doesn't have banana in their pocket, monkey avoids them) Just saw that I had mentioned this earlier in the puzzle: the "item" to be picked up is the monkey.
is the item described in the book about monkeys? See previous if so, does the book directly tell the player that it can be used to manipulate the monkey? Yes, in that it tells players how to manipualte the monkey
would the average player pick up the item if they didn't read the book? does the player read the book before or after obtaining the item? You have an FA regarding the book
is the item some kind of technology (such as the aforementioned monkey mind control hat)? food? if food, is it a kind of food that exists only in the game? See above

Is the game The Secret of Monkey Island or any of its sequels? Yes; it's the sequel, LeChuck's Revenge. (Please avoid Googling this one.)
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Re: [Balin] Curl up with a good book

Postby raevenclaw » Sat Mar 16, 2019 8:36 am

does the player read the book at all? or is it just visibly a book about monkeys? does the book help the player realize the monkey can, in fact, be picked up?

does the monkey item get directly used on the button/switch/whatever it is? does the monkey: pull a rope? stand on a pressure plate? stand on a see-saw? turn a dial?

could a non-monkey animal do the task? if so, only specific animals? does it require a monkey due to some inherent physical trait (like, say, having a tail) or due to some arbitrary restriction (a scanner that only lets monkeys through)?
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Re: [Balin] Curl up with a good book

Postby Balin » Mon Mar 18, 2019 4:08 pm

does the player read the book at all? Yes or is it just visibly a book about monkeys? does the book help the player realize the monkey can, in fact, be picked up? Yes, and what the monkey's purpose is

does the monkey item get directly used on the button/switch/whatever it is? Yes (not a button or switch, but a whatever-it-is) does the monkey: pull a rope? stand on a pressure plate? stand on a see-saw? turn a dial? It turns something, but not a dial. No to rest

could a non-monkey animal do the task? No if so, only specific animals? does it require a monkey due to some inherent physical trait (like, say, having a tail) or due to some arbitrary restriction (a scanner that only lets monkeys through)? Neither, but closer to the latter. There is logic (or rather, 1990s video game logic) behind it
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Re: [Balin] Curl up with a good book

Postby GalFisk » Mon Mar 18, 2019 4:47 pm

Is the book inside the game? Supplied with the game? Was the book created to make a puzzle easier? Was it created as a result of playtesting the game? Is it supposed to thwart pirate (heh) copying of the game?
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Re: [Balin] Curl up with a good book

Postby Balin » Tue Mar 19, 2019 8:20 pm

Is the book inside the game? This Supplied with the game?
Was the book created to make a puzzle easier? Yes Was it created as a result of playtesting the game? No Is it supposed to thwart pirate (heh) copying of the game? No
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Re: [Balin] Curl up with a good book

Postby raevenclaw » Tue Mar 19, 2019 9:41 pm

does the monkey turn: a wheel (steering or. whatever you call the kind of wheel attached to the bottom of vehicles)? a pulley? a crank?
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Re: [Balin] Curl up with a good book

Postby Balin » Wed Mar 20, 2019 7:36 pm

does the monkey turn: a wheel (steering or. whatever you call the kind of wheel attached to the bottom of vehicles)? a pulley? a crank? "Wheel" is close enough. I'd say a valve or a pump.
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Re: [Balin] Curl up with a good book

Postby Balin » Wed Mar 27, 2019 10:12 pm

HINT: The book does not appear in all versions of the game.
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Re: [Balin] Curl up with a good book

Postby GalFisk » Thu Mar 28, 2019 9:07 am

Did it appear in certain regions? Translations? Later versions? Special editions?
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Re: [Balin] Curl up with a good book

Postby Balin » Thu Mar 28, 2019 12:46 pm

Did it appear in certain regions? Translations? This Later versions? Special editions?
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Re: [Balin] Curl up with a good book

Postby GalFisk » Thu Mar 28, 2019 2:12 pm

Is the translation of the word monkey relevant? Is it used in translations to languages where monkey wrench is not a word for a wrench?
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Re: [Balin] Curl up with a good book

Postby Balin » Sat Mar 30, 2019 8:48 pm

Is the translation of the word monkey relevant? Not directly, but... Is it used in translations to languages where monkey wrench is not a word for a wrench? ...exactly.

****SPOILER****

To solve one puzzle in the second Monkey Island game, the player is supposed to collect a monkey and use it to turn a pump - a literal "monkey wrench." Since that pun does not translate into other languages, the Spanish version of the game includes a book called "101 Uses of Monkeys" (one of which is "can be used as wrenches") to give the player the ability to solve the puzzle.
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