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[WiZ] A Mass Desertion (OAATP)

PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2019 8:29 pm
by WiZ
Every Sunday for 9 years, Josh would attend mass at his local church. After this 9 year period, he never set foot in a church again. He had undergone no change in his faith or life circumstances, so why should this be so?

BOATS (In which I was a background character). No caveat. OAATP rules apply.

Re: [WiZ] A Mass Desertion (OAATP)

PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2019 11:00 pm
by Balin
Does the church now meet outside, so he (H/A/M?) has no need to set foot "in" one?

Re: [WiZ] A Mass Desertion (OAATP)

PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2019 11:20 pm
by WiZ
Does the church now meet outside, so he (H/A/M?) has no need to set foot "in" one? no, and have you considered a career as one of these?

Also, the H?A?M? is totally a separate question and will not be answered at this juncture.

Re: [WiZ] A Mass Desertion (OAATP)

PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2019 1:37 am
by gregoryuconn
Were his feet amputated?

Re: [WiZ] A Mass Desertion (OAATP)

PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2019 2:52 am
by WiZ
Were his feet amputated? No (and there is a potential case to be made for this being a 'change in life circumstances')

Re: [WiZ] A Mass Desertion (OAATP)

PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2019 4:15 am
by CoffeeBean
Is Josh’s age range during this 9 year period relevant? How old he was at the onset of the 9 years? How old he was at the end?

Re: [WiZ] A Mass Desertion (OAATP)

PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2019 4:25 am
by WiZ
Is Josh’s age range during this 9 year period relevant? Broadly speaking, yes to this How old he was at the onset of the 9 years? How old he was at the end?

Re: [WiZ] A Mass Desertion (OAATP)

PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2019 4:29 am
by GalFisk
Is Josh: H? A? M? Religious? Afraid? Annoyed? Lazy? Avoiding someone? Or something? Under duress?

Re: [WiZ] A Mass Desertion (OAATP)

PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2019 4:34 am
by WiZ
Is Josh: H? A? M? yes to all Religious? Afraid? Annoyed? Lazy? Avoiding someone? Or something? Under duress? no to all else

I suppose this is a legal move, although if we start invoking the 'LTPF list of personal attributes, temporary or permanent', I may have to revisit the rules :)

Re: [WiZ] A Mass Desertion (OAATP)

PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2019 4:39 am
by CoffeeBean
Was Josh christened in a church?
Did he begin going to mass at birth? As a child? Teen? Adult?

Re: [WiZ] A Mass Desertion (OAATP)

PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2019 4:43 am
by WiZ
Was Josh christened in a church? no/irrelevant

In light of this answer, you may ask the same following question again, or consider a different approach

Re: [WiZ] A Mass Desertion (OAATP)

PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2019 4:48 am
by GalFisk
Since he was not religious, did he go in order to: try to be? Pretend to be? Do a job? Spy on someone? Hide? Volunteer? Help? Learn something? Annoy someone? Fulfill an obligation? Impress someone? Get into someone's will? Get a benefit?

Re: [WiZ] A Mass Desertion (OAATP)

PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2019 4:49 am
by WiZ
Since he was not religious, did he go in order to: try to be? Pretend to be? Do a job? this Spy on someone? Hide? Volunteer? Help? Learn something? Annoy someone? Fulfill an obligation? and this Impress someone? Get into someone's will? Get a benefit? no to rest

Re: [WiZ] A Mass Desertion (OAATP)

PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2019 4:55 am
by GalFisk
Did the obligation end because: a time limit expired? A person expired? A large enough amount of work had been done? Someone else's faith or life circumstances changed? Edit: or did it not end?

Re: [WiZ] A Mass Desertion (OAATP)

PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2019 6:53 am
by LemonCurry
Did something change in the church after the 9 year period?

Re: [WiZ] A Mass Desertion (OAATP)

PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2019 1:12 pm
by Balin
At the start/end of the 9-year period, was Josh in his 20s? 30s? 40s? 50s? 60s? 70s? 80s? 90s? Over 100?

Re: [WiZ] A Mass Desertion (OAATP)

PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2019 9:44 pm
by gregoryuconn
Did he work in the church? As a paid employee? A volunteer? A caretaker? A custodian? Construction worker? Did he assist a disabled person who went to the church and then the disabled person moved/died/changed religions/otherwise no longer required assistance at the church due ot a change in their circumstances? Was his work in the church penance for something? Punishment? Court-ordered community service?

Re: [WiZ] A Mass Desertion (OAATP)

PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 4:56 am
by WiZ
GalFisk

Did the obligation end because: a time limit expired? A person expired? A large enough amount of work had been done? Someone else's faith no to these or life circumstances yes changed?

LemonCurry

Did something change in the church after the 9 year period? no

Balin

At the start/end of the 9-year period, was Josh in his 20s? 30s? this; assume he went from the age of 30 to 39 over the course of the puzzle 40s? 50s? 60s? 70s? 80s? 90s? Over 100?

GregoryUconn

Did he work in the church? please rephrase

Re: [WiZ] A Mass Desertion (OAATP)

PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 5:47 am
by GalFisk
Did someone else: move? Die? Change romantic circumstances? Change job circumstances? Change financial circumstances? Get sick? Get well? Get lost?

Re: [WiZ] A Mass Desertion (OAATP)

PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 6:45 am
by LemonCurry
Has someone taken over Josh's duties in the church?

Re: [WiZ] A Mass Desertion (OAATP)

PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 9:03 am
by peter365
Did he play a role in each mass e.g. playing the organ?

Re: [WiZ] A Mass Desertion (OAATP)

PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 10:19 am
by Lynne
Did he go purely to fulfill the obligation to be a regular communicant in order that his child/ren could go to a particular school?

Re: [WiZ] A Mass Desertion (OAATP)

PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 9:59 pm
by WiZ
GalFisk

Did someone else: move? Die? Change romantic circumstances? Change job circumstances? this; no to rest Change financial circumstances? Get sick? Get well? Get lost?

LemonCurry

Has someone taken over Josh's duties in the church? no

Peter

Did he play a role in each mass e.g. playing the organ? No - he didn't have a role in the mass itself

Lynne

Did he go purely to fulfill the obligation to be a regular communicant in order that his child/ren could go to a particular school? No - but I like this as an alternative answer!

Re: [WiZ] A Mass Desertion (OAATP)

PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 10:51 pm
by GalFisk
Did the other person (during Josh's church job): work at the church? Work for Josh? Employ Josh? Not work at all?

Re: [WiZ] A Mass Desertion (OAATP)

PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 11:20 pm
by WiZ
Did the other person (during Josh's church job): work at the church? Work for Josh? no to these Employ Josh? yope Not work at all? no

Re: [WiZ] A Mass Desertion (OAATP)

PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2019 5:00 am
by GalFisk
Yope-employ: help Josh? Ask Josh for a favor? Have Josh as a helper? As an assistant? As a guardian? Guard Josh? Watch Josh?

Re: [WiZ] A Mass Desertion (OAATP)

PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2019 6:12 am
by LemonCurry
Did Josh want to be seen in church by a customer or business partner?

Re: [WiZ] A Mass Desertion (OAATP)

PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2019 3:10 pm
by peter365
Is the church in an unusual location e.g. a prison?

Re: [WiZ] A Mass Desertion (OAATP)

PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2019 4:12 am
by WiZ
GalFisk

Yope-employ: help Josh? Ask Josh for a favor? Have Josh as a helper? As an assistant? As a guardian? this; no to rest Guard Josh? Watch Josh?

LemonCurry

Did Josh want to be seen in church by a customer or business partner? no

GalFisk

Is the church in an unusual location e.g. a prison? the location is actually relevant, but more for the context

Re: [WiZ] A Mass Desertion (OAATP)

PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2019 5:21 am
by LemonCurry
Is the other relevant person still attending mass in this church after the 9 years?

Re: [WiZ] A Mass Desertion (OAATP)

PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 12:45 pm
by trebor
Is the other person Josh's guardian in the sense of legal guardianship?

Re: [WiZ] A Mass Desertion (OAATP)

PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 9:21 pm
by WiZ
LemonCurry

Is the other relevant person still attending mass in this church after the 9 years? yes, good q

trebor

Is the other person Josh's guardian in the sense of legal guardianship? no

Re: [WiZ] A Mass Desertion (OAATP)

PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 5:19 am
by LemonCurry
Is the other relevant person now going to church alone?

Re: [WiZ] A Mass Desertion (OAATP)

PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 5:36 am
by GalFisk
Did the other person come of age? Change guardian? For some other reason no longer need the company of a guardian?

Re: [WiZ] A Mass Desertion (OAATP)

PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 8:14 pm
by WiZ
LemonCurry

Is the other relevant person now going to church alone? Alone as in 'without Josh but otherwise as before', yes.

GalFisk

Did the other person come of age? no Change guardian? no For some other reason no longer need the company of a guardian? yes

Re: [WiZ] A Mass Desertion (OAATP)

PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 10:37 pm
by trebor
Well, I misread that. Whoops. Has the other person done something which means they no longer have need of a legal guardian?

Re: [WiZ] A Mass Desertion (OAATP)

PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:44 pm
by WiZ
Well, I misread that. Whoops. Has the other person done something which means they no longer have need of a legal guardian?

To reiterate: Josh is not this person's guardian in the sense of legal guardianship. To answer your question: noish to having 'done something'.

Re: [WiZ] A Mass Desertion (OAATP)

PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 3:26 am
by GalFisk
When Josh started going to church, did he know when he would stop doing so?

Re: [WiZ] A Mass Desertion (OAATP)

PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 3:52 am
by WiZ
When Josh started going to church, did he know when he would stop doing so? He didn't know the exact day, but he did foresee a range of possibilities

Re: [WiZ] A Mass Desertion (OAATP)

PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 3:58 am
by GalFisk
Does Josh also relevantly stop going to other places?

Re: [WiZ] A Mass Desertion (OAATP)

PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 4:01 am
by WiZ
Does Josh also relevantly stop going to other places? Yes, there is an assortment of other places he stops going to after this period.

Re: [WiZ] A Mass Desertion (OAATP)

PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 4:37 am
by LemonCurry
Is the other person‘s health relevant?

Re: [WiZ] A Mass Desertion (OAATP)

PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 4:48 am
by WiZ
Is the other person‘s health relevant? no

Re: [WiZ] A Mass Desertion (OAATP)

PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 7:07 am
by GalFisk
Did the other person hire Josh? Pay Josh? Need Josh?

Re: [WiZ] A Mass Desertion (OAATP)

PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 12:40 am
by WiZ
Did the other person hire Josh? Pay Josh? no to both Need Josh? That depends on your level of optimism. I think most people would answer 'yes'

Re: [WiZ] A Mass Desertion (OAATP)

PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 5:37 am
by LemonCurry
Did the other relevant person avoid going to church alone in order to not get bothered by someone?

Re: [WiZ] A Mass Desertion (OAATP)

PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 3:47 pm
by GalFisk
Did the other person like Josh? Vice versa?

Re: [WiZ] A Mass Desertion (OAATP)

PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:40 pm
by WiZ
LemonCurry

Did the other relevant person avoid going to church alone in order to not get bothered by someone? yope, explore

GalFisk

Did the other person like Josh? irrelevant, although he certainly respects him Vice versa? same answer

Re: [WiZ] A Mass Desertion (OAATP)

PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 4:43 am
by LemonCurry
Is Josh a bodyguard? (Apparently no one has asked this yet?)

Re: [WiZ] A Mass Desertion (OAATP)

PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 4:47 am
by WiZ
Is Josh a bodyguard? yes! (Apparently no one has asked this yet? correct :P)

Re: [WiZ] A Mass Desertion (OAATP)

PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 4:52 am
by LemonCurry
Was the other relevant person holding a high-ranking office during the 9 years with the need of a bodyguard, but not any more afterwards?

Re: [WiZ] A Mass Desertion (OAATP) [PROCESSED OUT]

PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 4:58 am
by WiZ
Was the other relevant person holding a high-ranking office during the 9 years with the need of a bodyguard, but not any more afterwards? Yes!

That's all the material facts, folks!.

***** SPOILER *****

Josh was the bodyguard of the Prime Minister, who was a devout Catholic. After 3 terms, the opposition was voted in, and Josh went off to guard the new PM (who was not a churchgoer).


This is a true story from Wellington; I used to go to mass at the Wellington metropolitan Cathedral (as it was something of a last-chance service, picking up the waifs and strays and people busy at every other point in the week), along with the Prime Minister, the Attorney-General, and the leader of a minor coalition party. Fortunately, these guys were all on the same team, or else there'd be a bit too much pressure applied during the sign of peace...

Congratulations, LemonCurry, on the solution, and thank you everyone for playing!

Re: [WiZ] A Mass Desertion (OAATP) [PROCESSED OUT]

PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 10:45 am
by peter365
NIce puzzle WiZ