[peter365] Green Grow the Rushes

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[peter365] Green Grow the Rushes

Postby peter365 » Mon Jul 15, 2019 2:47 pm

Hi everyone , I've a sneaky feeling that something similar may have been done before on our beloved forum but I've been so inactive of late I wanted to run something.

Irish International footballers (soccer) are awarded a cap for representing their country . One such player got his cap with the number of appearances he made for Ireland stiched on to it. However the number was twice the number of appearances he actually made. He has a fair idea why too. Can you work out the reason.

Early spoilers etc.
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Re: [peter365] Green Grow the Rushes

Postby trebor » Tue Jul 16, 2019 4:48 am

PMing WAG
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Re: [peter365] Green Grow the Rushes

Postby peter365 » Tue Jul 16, 2019 7:17 am

Trebor's WAG was ....

Did he share a surname with someone else who had won the same number? No
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Re: [peter365] Green Grow the Rushes

Postby trebor » Tue Jul 16, 2019 3:38 pm

Is it possible to have played for another country as well if you have dual citizenship?
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Re: [peter365] Green Grow the Rushes

Postby Lynne » Tue Jul 16, 2019 5:53 pm

Was the number stitched upside down by mistake?
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Re: [peter365] Green Grow the Rushes

Postby peter365 » Wed Jul 17, 2019 7:11 am

Trebor

Is it possible to have played for another country as well if you have dual citizenship? There have been some recent examples of this happening but it's not relevant here
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Re: [peter365] Green Grow the Rushes

Postby peter365 » Wed Jul 17, 2019 7:12 am

Lynne

Was the number stitched upside down by mistake? Nice thinking but no .
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Re: [peter365] Green Grow the Rushes

Postby Lynne » Wed Jul 17, 2019 9:35 am

Was the machinist new and the machine ran away with itself and stitched something that looked like a number one before the actual number?
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Re: [peter365] Green Grow the Rushes

Postby peter365 » Wed Jul 17, 2019 10:22 am

Lynne

Was the machinist new and the machine ran away with itself and stitched something that looked like a number one before the actual number? No the number was quite clear and whomever stiched it on followed instructions correctly
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Re: [peter365] Green Grow the Rushes

Postby Lynne » Wed Jul 17, 2019 10:34 am

whomever stiched it on followed instructions correctly

Were the instructions wrong then? Was that where the misunderstanding took place?
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Re: [peter365] Green Grow the Rushes

Postby LemonCurry » Wed Jul 17, 2019 2:12 pm

Did the player have a reputation of always working for two? Or filling out two positions at the same time?
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Re: [peter365] Green Grow the Rushes

Postby trebor » Wed Jul 17, 2019 6:25 pm

Is anything specific to Ireland relevant here? Could this have happened if he’d been of another nationality, assuming they were to also reward caps? Is his name relevant? Do we need to be followers of football to solve this? Is it relevant what company makes the caps? Is he a player/manager? Relevant when players get their caps? If so, upon retirement? After the World Cup? After a certain number of years/competitions?
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Re: [peter365] Green Grow the Rushes

Postby peter365 » Thu Jul 18, 2019 10:56 am

Lynne

whomever stiched it on followed instructions correctly Yes

Were the instructions wrong then? Yes Was that where the misunderstanding took place? The Football Association would have ordered the cap for the player , the factory that made it carried out the instruction correctly so the mistake was made by the association.
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Re: [peter365] Green Grow the Rushes

Postby peter365 » Thu Jul 18, 2019 10:57 am

Lemoncurry

Did the player have a reputation of always working for two? Or filling out two positions at the same time? Nice thinkng but no to both
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Re: [peter365] Green Grow the Rushes

Postby peter365 » Thu Jul 18, 2019 11:00 am

Trebor

Is anything specific to Ireland relevant here? No Could this have happened if he’d been of another nationality, assuming they were to also reward caps? Yes Is his name relevant? No Do we need to be followers of football to solve this? Not at all Is it relevant what company makes the caps? No Is he a player/manager? Player Relevant when players get their caps? If so, upon retirement? I think this although not overly relevant , suffice to say that it was after it was know he would not represent his country again. After the World Cup? After a certain number of years/competitions?
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Re: [peter365] Green Grow the Rushes

Postby LemonCurry » Thu Jul 18, 2019 3:07 pm

Is the exact number of games he made relevant?
Are the figures on the cap written as ordinary numerals? Or as Roman numerals? Is something else stitched on the cap?

Did the FA make the mistake intentionally? Did someone really think he made twice as much games?
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Re: [peter365] Green Grow the Rushes

Postby peter365 » Thu Jul 18, 2019 3:15 pm

Lemoncurry

Is the exact number of games he made relevant? yes he only played one.
Are the figures on the cap written as ordinary numerals? Yes Or as Roman numerals? Is something else stitched on the cap? I'm sure there's his name and a crest but not relevant

Did the FA make the mistake intentionally? NO Did someone really think he made twice as much games? Yes
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Re: [peter365] Green Grow the Rushes

Postby LemonCurry » Thu Jul 18, 2019 3:46 pm

Did the association get the wrong number by adding up numbers in a statistic? Like the player was subbed in and out in the same match, so it looks in a statistic as if he had played in two matches?
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Re: [peter365] Green Grow the Rushes

Postby peter365 » Fri Jul 19, 2019 7:16 am

Lemoncurry

Did the association get the wrong number by adding up numbers in a statistic? No Like the player was subbed in and out in the same match, so it looks in a statistic as if he had played in two matches? No , nothing like this
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Re: [peter365] Green Grow the Rushes

Postby irishelk » Fri Jul 19, 2019 11:13 am

So, this player actually played in one game? And the cap says "2"?

Did he play in some kind of game where every player has typically played at least one other game? Maybe an exhibition? Or a situation where the team must play one home and one away? Home vs. away games relevant at all?

Is two the minimum requirement for getting a cap? But they wanted to give him one anyway? Is it the minimum for something else?
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Re: [peter365] Green Grow the Rushes

Postby peter365 » Fri Jul 19, 2019 12:43 pm

IrishElk

So, this player actually played in one game? And the cap says "2"? Yes to both

Did he play in some kind of game where every player has typically played at least one other game? Maybe an exhibition? Or a situation where the team must play one home and one away? Home vs. away games relevant at all? No to all

Is two the minimum requirement for getting a cap? But they wanted to give him one anyway? Is it the minimum for something else? No to these as well. You would get a cap with 1 on it even if you only played one match.
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Re: [peter365] Green Grow the Rushes

Postby trebor » Fri Jul 19, 2019 4:07 pm

Is playing only one game common? Is it relevant why he appeared in only one? Was whatever competition this was only one game long? Does it matter what sort of a career he had playing for a regular league team?

Time period relevant? His position? His stats during the game?
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Re: [peter365] Green Grow the Rushes

Postby irishelk » Wed Jul 24, 2019 12:54 pm

Were their two games that were called the same thing? Or for some other reason it was easy to mistake one game for another? Is any match he played in a different sport relevant? Is there a misunderstanding happening between countries? Between teams?

Did he play so well that his statistics suggest he was in more than one game? Does he appear to have done something that is impossible to do in a single game?

Was the organization actually reading/hearing from another source that he was in two games? Did he ever say he was in another game? If so, jokingly?
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Re: [peter365] Green Grow the Rushes

Postby gregoryuconn » Mon Jul 29, 2019 1:41 am

Relevant that the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland have separate teams? That the other three Home Nations have their own separate teams as well?
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Re: [peter365] Green Grow the Rushes

Postby peter365 » Tue Aug 06, 2019 8:02 am

Apologies for neglecting this I was away

Trebor

Is playing only one game common? Not all that common but not unheard of either Is it relevant why he appeared in only one? No Was whatever competition this was only one game long? No Does it matter what sort of a career he had playing for a regular league team?

Time period relevant? His position? His stats during the game? No to all
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Re: [peter365] Green Grow the Rushes

Postby peter365 » Tue Aug 06, 2019 8:06 am

Irishelk

Were their two games that were called the same thing? No Or for some other reason it was easy to mistake one game for another? No Is any match he played in a different sport relevant? No he only played soccer Is there a misunderstanding happening between countries? Not between two associations but there is a misunderstanding at play here Between teams? Same answer as previous

Did he play so well that his statistics suggest he was in more than one game? No but nice thinking Does he appear to have done something that is impossible to do in a single game? No

Was the organization actually reading/hearing from another source that he was in two games? No Did he ever say he was in another game? He does now but he says it jokingly , he never claimed to have played twice before the cap error If so, jokingly?
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Re: [peter365] Green Grow the Rushes

Postby peter365 » Tue Aug 06, 2019 8:07 am

Gregoryuconn

Relevant that the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland have separate teams? No but I was expecting this question earlier That the other three Home Nations have their own separate teams as well? No
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Re: [peter365] Green Grow the Rushes

Postby LemonCurry » Tue Aug 06, 2019 2:03 pm

Did he share his name with another player?

Were other players mistakenly credited with another game as well?
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Re: [peter365] Green Grow the Rushes

Postby peter365 » Wed Aug 07, 2019 7:19 am

Lemoncurry

Did he share his name with another player? No

Were other players mistakenly credited with another game as well? I very much doubt it
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Re: [peter365] Green Grow the Rushes

Postby irishelk » Wed Aug 07, 2019 11:50 am

Does he deduce that they believe he played in 1) the game he actually played in and 2) a different, specific game that did occur, but he was not in it? or 2) some imagined game, not a specific one? or 2) a game that was really supposed to happen, but never did?
Or is the misunderstanding such that it wouldn't matter if he played in 1 or 100 games, they still would have stitched "2"?

Is the misunderstanding based on poor wording, homonyms or other unfortunate word choice? If so, spoken? Written? Involving his name?
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Re: [peter365] Green Grow the Rushes

Postby peter365 » Thu Aug 08, 2019 7:26 am

Irishelk

Does he deduce that they believe he played in 1) the game he actually played in and 2) a different, specific game that did occur, but he was not in it? or 2) some imagined game, not a specific one? This one , good question or 2) a game that was really supposed to happen, but never did? No
Or is the misunderstanding such that it wouldn't matter if he played in 1 or 100 games, they still would have stitched "2"? No

Is the misunderstanding based on poor wording, homonyms or other unfortunate word choice? None of these If so, spoken? Written? It may have been spoken or written Involving his name? No his name is not relevant

There's a fairly straightforward question that has yet to be asked but when it is the puzzle will go very quickly.
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Re: [peter365] Green Grow the Rushes

Postby LemonCurry » Thu Aug 08, 2019 10:44 am

Was the alleged second game a metaphor or in-joke that folks started taking literally?
(this happens a lot around sports, I suppose)
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Re: [peter365] Green Grow the Rushes

Postby irishelk » Thu Aug 08, 2019 11:48 am

Uh-oh, we missed something...^^

Is he an adult? Is he not a professional football player? Is he fictional? Does this relevantly take place in the past? If so, 20th C? 19th? Earlier?

Was the association's misunderstanding that he did play in two games? Or did they misunderstand something else?

Did he get the wrong cap?
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Re: [peter365] Green Grow the Rushes

Postby peter365 » Thu Aug 08, 2019 2:23 pm

Irishelk

Uh-oh, we missed something...^^ Not so much that you've missed something you just haven't asked the right question

Is he an adult? Yes Is he not a professional football player? He was , he's long retired Is he fictional? No Does this relevantly take place in the past? It's in the past but not really relevant If so, 20th C? This 19th? Earlier?

Was the association's misunderstanding that he did play in two games? Or did they misunderstand something else? Quite hard to answer, They showed ingnorance of something that led to them mistakenly thinking that he had played twice

Did he get the wrong cap? No only the number was wrong
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Re: [peter365] Green Grow the Rushes

Postby Balin » Thu Aug 08, 2019 8:10 pm

Was the non-existent game in a work of fiction?
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Re: [peter365] Green Grow the Rushes

Postby trebor » Thu Aug 08, 2019 10:39 pm

Was the non-existent game actually the completion of a game that was unable to be completed as scheduled due to a weather interruption or something like that?
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Re: [peter365] Green Grow the Rushes

Postby LemonCurry » Fri Aug 09, 2019 5:50 am

there is still an open question up there...

Are there any relevant specifics about the alleged game? Was it a non-football event which was described like a football match?
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Re: [peter365] Green Grow the Rushes

Postby peter365 » Fri Aug 09, 2019 7:52 am

Lemoncurry

Was the alleged second game a metaphor or in-joke that folks started taking literally? No not a metaphor, I couldn't rule out that there's a joke a play here as the solution is fairly humorous but I think it's more of a funny misunderstanding
(this happens a lot around sports, I suppose)

there is still an open question up there...Apologies for missing that

Are there any relevant specifics about the alleged game? There isn't really an alleged game but for some reason one or more people thought there was, They're certainly not claiming there was .Was it a non-football event which was described like a football match? No
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Re: [peter365] Green Grow the Rushes

Postby peter365 » Fri Aug 09, 2019 7:53 am

Balin

Was the non-existent game in a work of fiction? No
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Re: [peter365] Green Grow the Rushes

Postby peter365 » Fri Aug 09, 2019 7:55 am

Trebor

Was the non-existent game actually the completion of a game that was unable to be completed as scheduled due to a weather interruption or something like that? No nothing like that
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Re: [peter365] Green Grow the Rushes

Postby peter365 » Fri Aug 09, 2019 7:57 am

To shove this along a bit , you all seem to be concentrating on the specifics of something that didn't happen i.e. the second match. Maybe you should concentrate on the specifics of soemthing that did happen. Looking back to earlier questions I'm a bit concerned that I may not have grasped what Irishelk was asking here

Irishelk
Is there a misunderstanding happening between countries? Not between two associations but there is a misunderstanding at play here Between teams? Same answer as previous

Just to clarify that i answered this to mean that only one association or representatives of a team were involved in arriving at the misunderstanding.
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Re: [peter365] Green Grow the Rushes

Postby trebor » Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:30 am

Does the misunderstanding have something to do with mixing up countries? Or with territorial claims? Is the Ireland/Northern Ireland border relevant here? Languages other than English relevant? Is UK/Irish history relevant?
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Re: [peter365] Green Grow the Rushes

Postby peter365 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:03 am

Trebor

Does the misunderstanding have something to do with mixing up countries? Yes with a slight 'ish' Or with territorial claims? Is the Ireland/Northern Ireland border relevant here? Languages other than English relevant? Is UK/Irish history relevant? No to the rest
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Re: [peter365] Green Grow the Rushes

Postby gregoryuconn » Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:49 pm

Youth teams relevant? Did he play for Ireland U-20 or U-17? Northern Ireland U-20 or U-17 before reclassifying to Ireland senior team? Or did he somehow manage to play for the Northern Irish senior team before, though I thought that would make him ineligible for Republic of Ireland at that point.
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Re: [peter365] Green Grow the Rushes

Postby LemonCurry » Wed Aug 14, 2019 5:40 am

Had he, at one point, assumed Irish citizenship in order to be eligible for the team, but then was not called until later?
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Re: [peter365] Green Grow the Rushes

Postby peter365 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:16 am

Gregoryuconn

Youth teams relevant? No Did he play for Ireland U-20 or U-17? Northern Ireland U-20 or U-17 before reclassifying to Ireland senior team? Or did he somehow manage to play for the Northern Irish senior team before, though I thought that would make him ineligible for Republic of Ireland at that point. Nothing like this, northern ireland or the political situation in Ireland is not relevant
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Re: [peter365] Green Grow the Rushes

Postby peter365 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:17 am

Lemoncurry

Had he, at one point, assumed Irish citizenship in order to be eligible for the team, but then was not called until later? I'm afraid not
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Re: [peter365] Green Grow the Rushes

Postby gregoryuconn » Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:31 am

Did he play another relevant match that wasn't for the Ireland national team? If so, was it for another national team? A club team?
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Re: [peter365] Green Grow the Rushes

Postby LemonCurry » Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:37 am

Was he once relevantly subbed in for Stephen Ireland?
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Re: [peter365] Green Grow the Rushes

Postby peter365 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:40 am

Gregoryuconn

Did he play another relevant match that wasn't for the Ireland national team? If so, was it for another national team? A club team? No to all
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Re: [peter365] Green Grow the Rushes

Postby peter365 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:41 am

Lemoncurry

Was he once relevantly subbed in for Stephen Ireland? Love this thought , I did once run a Stephen Ireland themed puzzle but he's not relevant here.

To give this a bit of a shove , you need only consider the match that he did play for Ireland
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Re: [peter365] Green Grow the Rushes

Postby LemonCurry » Wed Aug 14, 2019 5:37 pm

Was this one game mistaken for two games?

Are any events around the game relevant? Any details of the game? The date? Venue? Occasion? Opponent? Result?

Was the opponent a country like Trinidad and Tobago, and because of that name, it was mistaken for two games, one against Trinidad and another against Tobago?
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Re: [peter365] Green Grow the Rushes

Postby peter365 » Thu Aug 15, 2019 7:52 am

Lemoncurry

Was this one game mistaken for two games? Yes

Are any events around the game relevant? Any details of the game? The date? Venue? Occasion? Opponent? This Result?

Was the opponent a country like Trinidad and Tobago, and because of that name, it was mistaken for two games, one against Trinidad and another against Tobago? Exactly!!!

*******************SPOILER************************

This happened back in the early 80's when the Republic of Ireland soccer team toured South America with games scheduled against the mighty Argentinian and Brazil teams. This was propably ill-judged as the Falklands conflict had just broken out and a lot of english teams refused to release their Irish players to play. This led to a lot of lesser known players being called into the squad including the star of this puzzle (whose name escapes me) . He travelled with the team and played in a warm up game against Trinidad and Tobago but didn't make the team for any of the bigger matches.

When he got his cap as a momento of his representing his country, it had the number 2 on it to imply that he had played twice for Ireland when in fact he had only played once. He's probably right in surmising that this was because someone in the Irish football association was told that he played against Trinidad AND Tobago.

Well done Lemoncurry and thanks to the rest of you for playing. I didn't think this would last as long as it did.

Until next time
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Re: [peter365] Green Grow the Rushes (Done AND Dusted)

Postby irishelk » Thu Aug 15, 2019 11:57 am

Ahhhh, so good to get the answer, my brain was melting. Nice one!
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Re: [peter365] Green Grow the Rushes (Done AND Dusted)

Postby trebor » Sat Aug 17, 2019 4:30 am

Oh, excellent! Well done, Lemoncurry.
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