[IrishElk] Beneath Their Shoulders

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[IrishElk] Beneath Their Shoulders

Postby irishelk » Fri Jul 19, 2019 11:27 am

Why did John lie about the shape of a stranger's chimney?
Last edited by irishelk on Sat Aug 24, 2019 12:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [IrishElk] Beneath Their Shoulders

Postby Hobbsicle » Wed Jul 24, 2019 8:33 pm

Because...the shape was too awkward to mention?

Did the lie consist of giving a different shape for the chimney? Or simply denying a relevant aspect of the chimney’s shape?

Is the actual shape of the chimney relevant? The shape he said it was (if applicable)?

Are any of the following aspects of the chimney’s shape relevant: length? Width? Polygonal vs round? Number of corners/angles? Whether it tapers? Its resemblance to something?

Did he know the actual shape? Or was he pretending to know? Was there another lie in play? Such as lying about whether he knew the person with the chimney?

Is he in conversation with someone? With multiple people? Is he speaking publicly? Did he write the lie?

By “chimney”, do you mean an actual structure connected to a house to carry smoke out of a fireplace? Is a crime involved? Santa Claus?
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Re: [IrishElk] Beneath Their Shoulders

Postby irishelk » Wed Jul 24, 2019 8:49 pm

Hobbsicle

Because...the shape was too awkward to mention? Heehee, no.

Did the lie consist of giving a different shape for the chimney? Yes. Or simply denying a relevant aspect of the chimney’s shape? In a sense.

Is the actual shape of the chimney relevant? Not really. The shape he said it was (if applicable)? Yes--you might not need the exact shape, but something about it.

Are any of the following aspects of the chimney’s shape relevant: length? Width? Polygonal vs round? This is an aspect of his lie. Number of corners/angles? Whether it tapers? None of these are really relevant. Its resemblance to something? Yesish, for the lie.

Did he know the actual shape? No, great question. Or was he pretending to know? Yes. Was there another lie in play? YES. Such as lying about whether he knew the person with the chimney? Noish.

Is he in conversation with someone? Yes. With multiple people? Could be, not necessarily. Is he speaking publicly? Not necessarily. Did he write the lie? Yes.

By “chimney”, do you mean an actual structure connected to a house to carry smoke out of a fireplace? Yes. Is a crime involved? No (I suppose you could call the lie a sort of fraud). Santa Claus? No.
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Re: [IrishElk] Beneath Their Shoulders

Postby trebor » Thu Jul 25, 2019 4:51 pm

Is John’s profession relevant? The profession of the reader(s) of the lie?

Had John ever seen the chimney? Had the reader(s)? Did John write the lie in a letter? Newspaper? Book? Email? Blog? A simple note?

Did he say the chimney was bent? Round? Rectangular? Triangular? Angled funny?

Time period relevant?
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Re: [IrishElk] Beneath Their Shoulders

Postby irishelk » Fri Jul 26, 2019 12:11 pm

trebor

Is John’s profession relevant? Yesish. The profession of the reader(s) of the lie? No.

Had John ever seen the chimney? No. Had the reader(s)? No. Did John write the lie in a letter? Newspaper? Book? This. Email? Blog? A simple note?

Did he say the chimney was bent? Yes.Round? Rectangular? Triangular? Angled funny? This (he said something more specific, but this is all you need to solve).

Time period relevant? Yes.
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Re: [IrishElk] Beneath Their Shoulders

Postby trebor » Fri Jul 26, 2019 4:10 pm

Does the chimney exist IRL? Only in the book? Is the book a fiction? Autobiography? Biography?

Does this occur in the 21st century? 20th? 19th? 18th? Earlier? Relevant the country? Are fires relevant? Or whatever lined the fireplace/hearth? Was the fireplace used for cooking? Chimney sweeps relevant? Child labour?
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Re: [IrishElk] Beneath Their Shoulders

Postby irishelk » Sat Jul 27, 2019 11:35 am

trebor

Does the chimney exist IRL? Unknown! Only in the book? Not necessarily. Is the book a fiction? It's not supposed to be, but... Autobiography? Allegedly. Biography?

Does this occur in the 21st century? 20th? 19th? 18th? Earlier? This. Relevant the country? Somewhat. Are fires relevant? No. Or whatever lined the fireplace/hearth? No. Was the fireplace used for cooking? Not relevantly. Chimney sweeps relevant? Child labour? No to rest, good thought though.
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Re: [IrishElk] Beneath Their Shoulders

Postby Earnest » Sat Jul 27, 2019 3:49 pm

Did he lie on the existence of a cimney? Christmas relevant? Smoke? Is the actual shape relevant? Does he live near the cimney? Direction of smoke relevant? Relevant who was the stranger?
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Re: [IrishElk] Beneath Their Shoulders

Postby trebor » Sat Jul 27, 2019 8:53 pm

Is the book a religious text?
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Re: [IrishElk] Beneath Their Shoulders

Postby irishelk » Sun Jul 28, 2019 12:08 pm

Earnest

Did he lie on the existence of a chimney? Yes--or more accurately, he does not know the truth. Christmas relevant? No. Smoke? No. Is the actual shape relevant? Noish. Does he live near the chimney? No, good q. Direction of smoke relevant? No. Relevant who was the stranger? Not specifically, but generally.


trebor

Is the book a religious text? No.
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Re: [IrishElk] Beneath Their Shoulders

Postby Earnest » Sun Jul 28, 2019 3:02 pm

Country = England? Is Dickens relevant? Relevant the author? His job? War times?

Was the chimney part of a relevant house? Of a shop/place of work? The house of a bad charachter of the book? Is the book a fantasy book? Is the book's audience relevant? Children? Was the chimney used as a normal chimney (e.g. it had a bonfire where wood was burned? Or maybe it belonged to a place of work?)? Or it was a "fake" chimney (e.g. it was an hidden observatory of stars, a futuristic rocket basis, a mail box for mails transported by pigeons)?

Does he need that the chimney had a particular shape for the sake of the story he was telling? Was the house isolated? Was it the only one with such a chimney? Relevant? Was the chimney relevantly visible from a distance? Was it in a forest? Did it belong to an uninhabited house? Is the shape of the chimney the result of: a natural process? Will of the builder? Material of the chimney? Time? The things burned in inside?
Was such a shape useful for a certain activity? Are animals relevant? Useless? Was it a sign of poverty?

Do other houses have a chimney? Similar ones? Was it normal for the time to have a chimney with such a shape? Could someone verify if he was telling the truth? Was he telling a tail? Did he pretend to have seen the chimney? Did he fear that someone would have recognized the place? Did he want to mislead the readers? Did he want to publish the book? Did he lie just on the shape of the chimney?
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Re: [IrishElk] Beneath Their Shoulders

Postby trebor » Sun Jul 28, 2019 4:55 pm

Is the writer in the same country as the chimney? On the same continent? Is the writer a known figure today? Are they known for something other than writing books? If so, were they a philosopher? Politician? Military figure? Sportsman? Were they European? North American? South American? African? Asian? From Oceania?
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Re: [IrishElk] Beneath Their Shoulders

Postby irishelk » Mon Jul 29, 2019 10:40 am

Earnest

Country = England? Yesish, but beware FA. Is Dickens relevant? No. Relevant the author? It's a true story--but you don't need to figure this out to solve. His job? Yesish. War times? No.

Was the chimney part of a relevant house? Yes. Of a shop/place of work? No. The house of a bad charachter of the book? No. Is the book a fantasy book? Yope, maybe explore. Is the book's audience relevant? It might help you. Children? No. Was the chimney used as a normal chimney (e.g. it had a bonfire where wood was burned? Or maybe it belonged to a place of work?)? Remembering that the actual existence of the chimney is unknown, yes, it is a fireplace chimney. Or it was a "fake" chimney (e.g. it was an hidden observatory of stars, a futuristic rocket basis, a mail box for mails transported by pigeons)? No.

Does he need that the chimney had a particular shape for the sake of the story he was telling? Kind of. Was the house isolated? Irr. Was it the only one with such a chimney? No. Relevant? Not really. Was the chimney relevantly visible from a distance? No. Was it in a forest? Irr. Did it belong to an uninhabited house? No. Is the shape of the chimney the result of: a natural process? Will of the builder? Assume this, not really relevant. Material of the chimney? Time? The things burned in inside?

Was such a shape useful for a certain activity? The actual shape or the shape he lied about? The former yes, the latter no. Are animals relevant? No. Useless? is what useless? Was it a sign of poverty? No.

Do other houses have a chimney? Yes. Similar ones? Hard to answer--remember, the shape of and existence of this chimney is in debate. Was it normal for the time to have a chimney with such a shape? The shape he lied about? No. Could someone verify if he was telling the truth? No, or not easily. Was he telling a tale? Yes indeed. Did he pretend to have seen the chimney? Yes. Did he fear that someone would have recognized the place? No. Did he want to mislead the readers? Yes. Did he want to publish the book? It's already published. Did he lie just on the shape of the chimney? No.


trebor

Is the writer in the same country as the chimney? No, good q. On the same continent? No. Is the writer a known figure today? Not super famous, but he's got a Wiki page =). Are they known for something other than writing books? Yes. If so, were they a philosopher? Politician? Military figure? Sportsman? No to all.
Were they European? Yes. North American? South American? African? Asian? From Oceania?
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Re: [IrishElk] Beneath Their Shoulders

Postby trebor » Mon Jul 29, 2019 4:41 pm

Was this writer an explorer? Was he embellishing tales of his travels?
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Re: [IrishElk] Beneath Their Shoulders

Postby Earnest » Tue Jul 30, 2019 6:44 am

Jungle book relevant? Relevant where the story takes place? Is Asia? America? Europe? Africa? In space? Are tribes relevant? Did he pretend to have seen the chimney from a relevant distance? With a telescope? Did he saw it from the top of a mountain? On the sea? Flying above it? Did he pretend to have entered the house with the relevant chimney?

Did he want to mislead the reader because: he does not want the reader to discover the truth? He wanted to make a point (about chimneys? People living the place? Their habits? Others?)? He wanted to be the first one writing about something?

Was the fact that he saw the chimney relevant in that: it makes believe to the reader that a certain place was inhabited by people? It made the reader understand that he reached a relevant place? That he witnessed a relevant event? That certain people have reached a relevant technological progress?
It made understand better to readers the story? Was a similitude so that reader could figure out the situation in which the writer was?

Is the fact that the chimney has a relevant shape relevant in that: it proved a relevant physical law (e.g. he pretebded that the chimney was on the moon and that people on the moon needed a chimney with such a shape to avoid that the smoke fall down again in the house)? It proved a theory that he had? It provided an evidence for the existence of a relevant phenomenon/ a relevant practice of the people in that place? It provided ideas for the construction of newly shaped chimneys?

Had the chimney had a different but still unusual shape, would the puzzle still work? Or must the shape be "angled" for the puzzle to work? Is the shape of "ordinary" chimney relevant?
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Re: [IrishElk] Beneath Their Shoulders

Postby GalFisk » Tue Jul 30, 2019 8:17 am

Did he lie in order for a story element to work? Because he made an assumption? Is it possible that the house had no chimney? No fireplace? No heating? Was he relevantly culturally biased? Such as living where everyone has a fireplace, but writing about a place where they don't? Did the lied-about chimney need to have a funny shape in order to fit in with some actual facts the author knew? Or to fit in with some other lie or assumption?
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Re: [IrishElk] Beneath Their Shoulders

Postby irishelk » Tue Jul 30, 2019 12:36 pm

trebor

Was this writer an explorer? Yes. Was he embellishing tales of his travels? Yes!


Earnest

Jungle book relevant? No. Relevant where the story takes place? Not exactly, just that it's "somewhere else". Is Asia? I believe it was this. America? Europe? Africa? In space? Are tribes relevant? No. Did he pretend to have seen the chimney from a relevant distance? Yesish. With a telescope? Did he saw it from the top of a mountain? On the sea? Flying above it? No to these. Did he pretend to have entered the house with the relevant chimney? Yes, good q!

Did he want to mislead the reader because: he does not want the reader to discover the truth? Thisish. He wanted to make a point (about chimneys? People living the place? Their habits? Others?)? No to these. He wanted to be the first one writing about something? This is likely true, but not directly related to the lie.

Was the fact that he saw the chimney relevant in that: it makes believe to the reader that a certain place was inhabited by people? It made the reader understand that he reached a relevant place? This. That he witnessed a relevant event? That certain people have reached a relevant technological progress?
It made understand better to readers the story? No, slight FA lurking. Was a similitude so that reader could figure out the situation in which the writer was? Not in the sense that I think you mean, but OTRTish.

Is the fact that the chimney has a relevant shape relevant in that: it proved a relevant physical law (e.g. he pretebded that the chimney was on the moon and that people on the moon needed a chimney with such a shape to avoid that the smoke fall down again in the house)? It proved a theory that he had? It provided an evidence for the existence of a relevant phenomenon/ a relevant practice of the people in that place? It provided ideas for the construction of newly shaped chimneys? No to all.

Had the chimney had a different but still unusual shape, would the puzzle still work? Certain shapes would work, others wouldn't. Or must the shape be "angled" for the puzzle to work? Yes. Is the shape of "ordinary" chimney relevant? Somewhat.

Just to clear up the slight FA--the lie about the shape of the chimney wasn't written in the book; it was something he said later.



GalFisk

Did he lie in order for a story element to work? Yesish. Because he made an assumption? No. Is it possible that the house had no chimney? No fireplace? No heating? Yes to all. Was he relevantly culturally biased? Not relevantly to the puzzle (but yes, very much so!). Such as living where everyone has a fireplace, but writing about a place where they don't? This is quite possible, but irr. Did the lied-about chimney need to have a funny shape in order to fit in with some actual facts the author knew? Noish. Or to fit in with some other lie or assumption? Yes--to support the rest of the lie.
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Re: [IrishElk] Beneath Their Shoulders

Postby GalFisk » Wed Jul 31, 2019 8:03 am

Is the top of the chimney relevant? The bottom? The bend itself? The smoke from it? The placement of the chimney in the house? The placement fo the fireplace? The type of fireplace? Is fire relevant? Would the lie be necessary if the chimney was disused? Was there a relevant problem with the supposed chimney? Chimney sweeping relevant? Animals nesting in chimneys? Santa? Something stuck in a chimney?
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Re: [IrishElk] Beneath Their Shoulders

Postby Earnest » Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:06 pm

Did he pretend to have entered the house hiddenly? Invited by the owner? From the main entrance? From the chimney? Is the chimney described as such (as a chimney) by the author? Is the chimney used by the inhabitant in a different way than in other countries?

Is wind relevant? Trees? Giants? Rains? Natural phenomena? Animals? Something in the book that justified the shape of the chimneys? Something invented? Something that he told to be inside the houses? Outside?
Is the shape of the eyes of asian people relevant? (E.g. he thought that with such a shape of eye they saw things in a different way so that they needed angled shaped chimneys)? Is the shape of the chimney relevant in his opinion because it was useful for people living in that place?

Did he tell that people did not know circular shapes? Have no wheels? Construct chimneys before houses?
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Re: [IrishElk] Beneath Their Shoulders

Postby irishelk » Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:32 pm

GalFisk

Is the top of the chimney relevant? In a sense. The bottom? Yes. The bend itself? Whether it's there or not, yes. The smoke from it? No. The placement of the chimney in the house? No. The placement fo the fireplace? Not really. The type of fireplace? Not exactly, but...

NOTE to prevent confusion: I realize that this puzzle wouldn't work with most modern chimneys. It might be helpful to remember that this was centuries ago, and was supposed to be a building in a more "primitive" society.


Is fire relevant? No. Would the lie be necessary if the chimney was disused? Yes. Was there a relevant problem with the supposed chimney? Chimney sweeping relevant? Animals nesting in chimneys? Santa? Something stuck in a chimney? No to rest.


Earnest

Did he pretend to have entered the house hiddenly? No. Invited by the owner? Yes. From the main entrance? Yes. From the chimney? No. Is the chimney described as such (as a chimney) by the author? Not specifically. Is the chimney used by the inhabitant in a different way than in other countries? No/irr.

Is wind relevant? Trees? Giants? Rains? Natural phenomena? Yes. Animals? Something in the book that justified the shape of the chimneys? No to rest. Something invented? His story itself is invented. Something that he told to be inside the houses? Noish, maybe explore. Outside? No.
Is the shape of the eyes of asian people relevant? (E.g. he thought that with such a shape of eye they saw things in a different way so that they needed angled shaped chimneys)? No, it could have really been any "unknown" land. Is the shape of the chimney relevant in his opinion because it was useful for people living in that place? No.

Did he tell that people did not know circular shapes? Have no wheels? Construct chimneys before houses? No to rest.
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Re: [IrishElk] Beneath Their Shoulders

Postby Earnest » Thu Aug 01, 2019 1:28 pm

Huts relevant? Caverns? Boats? Tents? Risk of burning the house relevant? Relevant the material with which houses were made? Inflammable ones? Were chimneys made of the same material? Were roofs very high? Were chimneys?
Are storms relevant? Floods? Is sun relevant? Eclipses? Lightnings? Earthquakes? Tornados? Sanstorm? Vulcanos? Ice?

Is the angled shape usegul to: bring together water/other substances? Avoid a natural phenomenon to make damages? Escape to a natural catastrophy? Repair to a natural catastrophy? Had the chimney an hole on the top? Relevant? Was it always kept opened? Is the shape relevant in a particular period of the year? Winter? Summer? Others? Does the shape resembles the shape of the environment in which the house was? E.g. it followed the shape of a mountain so that the house could be camouflaged?
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Re: [IrishElk] Beneath Their Shoulders

Postby trebor » Fri Aug 02, 2019 5:25 pm

Is there one relevant natural phenomenon? More? Is it a weather event? Volcano? Sunlight/moonlight/stars relevant?
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Re: [IrishElk] Beneath Their Shoulders

Postby irishelk » Sat Aug 03, 2019 12:27 pm

Earnest

Huts relevant? Caverns? Boats? Tents? Risk of burning the house relevant? Relevant the material with which houses were made? Inflammable ones? Were chimneys made of the same material? Were roofs very high? Were chimneys?
Are storms relevant? Floods? Is sun relevant? YES. Eclipses? Lightnings? Earthquakes? Tornados? Sanstorm? Vulcanos? Ice? No/irr to rest.

Is the angled shape usegul to: bring together water/other substances? Avoid a natural phenomenon to make damages? Escape to a natural catastrophy? Repair to a natural catastrophy? No to all. Had the chimney an hole on the top? Presumably yes. Relevant? Yes. Was it always kept opened? Assume yes--this was the relevant feature of old-timey chimneys. Is the shape relevant in a particular period of the year? Winter? Summer? Others? No, but OTRT. Does the shape resembles the shape of the environment in which the house was? E.g. it followed the shape of a mountain so that the house could be camouflaged? No.

trebor

Is there one relevant natural phenomenon? Yes. More? Is it a weather event? Volcano? Sunlight/moonlight/stars relevant? Yes--sunlight.
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Re: [IrishElk] Beneath Their Shoulders

Postby Earnest » Sat Aug 03, 2019 2:05 pm

Was the sun too hot? Desert relevant? Hour of the day indicated by the shadow of the chimney? Direction of the chimney relevant? Est? West? Material? Sunlight penetration inside the house? Repair in case of an attack? Explouting sunlight relevant? For agriculture? Mirrors relevant? Drying food/something else relevant?
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Re: [IrishElk] Beneath Their Shoulders

Postby irishelk » Sat Aug 03, 2019 5:40 pm

Earnest

Was the sun too hot? No. Desert relevant? No. Hour of the day indicated by the shadow of the chimney? No, but this is OTRT. Direction of the chimney relevant? No. Est? West? Material? No.
Sunlight penetration inside the house? YES. Repair in case of an attack? No.
Explouting sunlight relevant? For agriculture? Mirrors relevant? Drying food/something else relevant? No to rest.
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Re: [IrishElk] Beneath Their Shoulders

Postby trebor » Sat Aug 03, 2019 6:17 pm

Are shadows cast by the chimney relevant? Does the chimney block sunlight from entering the house? If so, at a relevant time of day? Morning? Afternoon? Evening?

Is the writer saying that he did something that in some way involves the chimney, which the lie reveals it was impossible to have done? Does he say something like, "The sunlight woke me up at 4:00 every morning", even though it wouldn't have?
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Re: [IrishElk] Beneath Their Shoulders

Postby irishelk » Sun Aug 04, 2019 3:23 pm

trebor

Are shadows cast by the chimney relevant? No. Does the chimney block sunlight from entering the house? A bent chimney, yes. If so, at a relevant time of day? Not a specific time you have to determine, but this idea is relevant. Morning? Afternoon? Evening?

Is the writer saying that he did something that in some way involves the chimney, which the lie reveals it was impossible to have done? Does he say something like, "The sunlight woke me up at 4:00 every morning", even though it wouldn't have? No to these, but very OTRT.
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Re: [IrishElk] Beneath Their Shoulders

Postby GalFisk » Mon Aug 05, 2019 6:42 am

Sunlight entering the chimney relevant? Sunlight being unable to enter it? Unable to pass completely through it?
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Re: [IrishElk] Beneath Their Shoulders

Postby Earnest » Mon Aug 05, 2019 7:16 am

Artificial sources of light relevant? Did he told about the impediment of having light inside the house in his book? Did he/the inhabitant of the house live into the darkness? (Btw to be sure we are talking about the own chimney of the house and not the chimney of the neighbor right?) Not being able to see relevant? Going to the bathroom? Being the first to wake up? Plant growing inside house? Do sunlight not penetrate in every hour of the day? Or maybe was there relevantly a specific period in which it penetrates? If so, all over the house?
Was the chimney's top relevantly hotter than its bottom being always exposed to sunlight?

Time of the day: in the morning? Evening? Afternoon? (I'll include night on brackets...maybe moon light relevant as well...btw would moon light penetration have been more intense than sunlight one?) Any of these relevant: breakfast? Linch? Dinner? Measuring time relevant? If so to do certain activities? Activities that must be done according to certain times and not others?
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Re: [IrishElk] Beneath Their Shoulders

Postby irishelk » Mon Aug 05, 2019 11:48 am

GalFisk

Sunlight entering the chimney relevant? Yes. Sunlight being unable to enter it? Unable to pass completely through it? And yes.


Earnest

Artificial sources of light relevant? No. Did he told about the impediment of having light inside the house in his book? No. Did he/the inhabitant of the house live into the darkness? No. (Btw to be sure we are talking about the own chimney of the house and not the chimney of the neighbor right?) Yes. Not being able to see relevant? Going to the bathroom? Being the first to wake up? Plant growing inside house? No to rest.
Do sunlight not penetrate in every hour of the day? Correct. Or maybe was there relevantly a specific period in which it penetrates? Yesish! If so, all over the house? No.
Was the chimney's top relevantly hotter than its bottom being always exposed to sunlight? No.

Time of the day: in the morning? Evening? Afternoon? (I'll include night on brackets...maybe moon light relevant as well...btw would moon light penetration have been more intense than sunlight one?) Any of these relevant: breakfast? Linch? Dinner? You don't need to discover which specific time, only that there would have been a specific time. Measuring time relevant? Not exactly. If so to do certain activities? Activities that must be done according to certain times and not others?
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Re: [IrishElk] Beneath Their Shoulders

Postby Earnest » Mon Aug 05, 2019 1:08 pm

Does the period in which it penetrates last more than an hour? More than a minute? Relevant? Relevant how it penetrates? Perpendicultar to the chimney? Inverse of the shadow relevant? I mean relevant shapes made by the sun penetrating the chimney? E.g. arrows indicating where a treasure was...
Did something relevant happen when the sunlight penetrates? If so inside the house? Rituals?
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Re: [IrishElk] Beneath Their Shoulders

Postby irishelk » Wed Aug 07, 2019 11:32 am

Earnest

Does the period in which it penetrates last more than an hour? More than a minute? Relevant? Irr. exactly how long, but assume a couple of hours. Relevant how it penetrates? Again, this idea is relevant to the solution, but you don't have to figure out the specifics. Perpendicultar to the chimney?
Inverse of the shadow relevant? I mean relevant shapes made by the sun penetrating the chimney? No. E.g. arrows indicating where a treasure was... Interesting idea though!
Did something relevant happen when the sunlight penetrates? That is the relevant thing...ish. If so inside the house? Rituals?
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Re: [IrishElk] Beneath Their Shoulders

Postby Earnest » Wed Aug 07, 2019 2:07 pm

Does someone wake up? Something is cooked? Does something appear? Appear clearer? Is drawing on the floor relevant? Movement of sun light on a wall? Did sunlight appear always in the same point relevantly? Is directioning sunlight relevant? Reflecting it?

Hour of the day is OTRT but no need to specify the exact time...so is the lie about the hour of the day? About the fact that night and day were reverted? About the power of sunlight penetration? (E.g. the power of the sunlight was so strong that they needed to draw the path that sunlight does when it penetrates and its changes to avoid that people move into these boundaries)
Hour of the day is relevant just indirectly? Does sunlight penetrates just once in a day? More than once? In different part of the house? Through a window? Always through the same window? Does sunlight hit the chimney?
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Re: [IrishElk] Beneath Their Shoulders

Postby irishelk » Thu Aug 08, 2019 12:08 pm

Earnest

Does someone wake up? Something is cooked? Does something appear? Appear clearer? Is drawing on the floor relevant? Movement of sun light on a wall? Wall or floor, yes. Did sunlight appear always in the same point relevantly? Is directioning sunlight relevant? Reflecting it? No to rest--you've figured out all that's needed about what happens inside the house.

Hour of the day is OTRT but no need to specify the exact time...so is the lie about the hour of the day? No, but this is sort of involved. About the fact that night and day were reverted? About the power of sunlight penetration? (E.g. the power of the sunlight was so strong that they needed to draw the path that sunlight does when it penetrates and its changes to avoid that people move into these boundaries) No.
Hour of the day is relevant just indirectly? It is involved in the lying. Does sunlight penetrates just once in a day? Assume yes. More than once? In different part of the house? Through a window? Always through the same window? No/irr to rest. Does sunlight hit the chimney? Yes, but see below...

BRIEF RECAP

Just to keep you on the right track, because you're very close but this could get convoluted:

John writes a travel book about exotic locations, which is full of lies and exaggerations. He later has a conversation with other people in which he also lies. In it, he describes chimneys in a foreign country that are bent at a strange angle. He says that he went there and entered such a house, but this is a lie connected to his previous ones.

The reason for this lie is related to sunlight passing through a chimney (or not being able to!), entering a house and shining on/moving across the wall or floor.
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Re: [IrishElk] Beneath Their Shoulders

Postby Earnest » Thu Aug 08, 2019 12:59 pm

Was the lie about orientation? Inventions? Cardinal points? Orientation of houses? Movement of the Earth? Natural phenomenon? Was the lie plausible just if he described sunlight movement on the wall? Was the movement described circular? Clockwise? Anticlockwise? Relevant? Dust relevant? Does sunlight disappear and reappear in intervals? Solar chimneys relevant? Movement of the sun relevant? Position of the sun? Always beneath their shoulders?
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Re: [IrishElk] Beneath Their Shoulders

Postby irishelk » Fri Aug 09, 2019 3:03 pm

Earnest

Was the lie about orientation? Inventions? Cardinal points? Orientation of houses? Movement of the Earth? Natural phenomenon? No to all. The lie in the puzzle statement is just about the shape of the chimney.
Was the lie plausible just if he described sunlight movement on the wall? The original lies? possibly. Was the movement described circular? Clockwise? Anticlockwise? Relevant? FA.
Dust relevant? No. Does sunlight disappear and reappear in intervals? Solar chimneys relevant? No. Movement of the sun relevant? Yesish. Position of the sun? Yesish, but don't let these lead you off-track. Always beneath their shoulders? No.
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Re: [IrishElk] Beneath Their Shoulders

Postby Earnest » Fri Aug 09, 2019 3:35 pm

So he just justified the lie by describing the sunlight penetration/not penetration inside the house?

So I don't see what we need to figure out...the reason why he said that the chimney had the strange shape?
Because he wanted to justify the fact that in the novel
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Re: [IrishElk] Beneath Their Shoulders

Postby irishelk » Sat Aug 10, 2019 12:00 am

Earnest

So he just justified the lie by describing the sunlight penetration/not penetration inside the house? No.

So I don't see what we need to figure out...the reason why he said that the chimney had the strange shape? Yes.
Because he wanted to justify the fact that in the novel No, good to clarify--he did not tell the lie about the chimney in the novel.
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Re: [IrishElk] Beneath Their Shoulders

Postby Earnest » Sat Aug 10, 2019 7:01 am

Does the sunlight move at all? If not, was people able to calculate exactly where the sunlight would have penetrated inside houses? Weather forecasting relevant? Do people mainly stay inside houses when it was sunny? Outside? Relevant? Visibility relevant? Was the rest of the house dark? Habits of the people relevant (e.g. they sleep a lot)?
Relevant what happens in rainy days? In days without sunlight?

To be sure...was he speaking about planet Earth?

In the book: does he describe houses? The interior design of houses? The disposition of furnitures? Of certain type of furniture? The shape of the windows (well, were there windows? Does the sunlight penetrates through them? Relevant? Were there doors?)? The location of houses? The dimension of houses? Sunlight? Shadows that he was able to see? Shadow of houses? What houses look like from a distance? The fact that he saw just points of light from a distance? Relevant the relative positions of the houses one to the other?
Was sunlight penetration somehow "guided" by the people inside the house? Was there a unique "point of penetration" for sunlight inside houses? If so, relevant which one it was? A window? The chimney? Small openings? Were houses tall (e.g. skyscreapers)? Do they develop underground? Was the chinney on the floor level? (E.g. he said in the book that the people was organized like in an anthill)
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Re: [IrishElk] Beneath Their Shoulders

Postby irishelk » Sat Aug 10, 2019 12:53 pm

Earnest

Does the sunlight move at all? Yes, but I think there's an FA here. It would move, if it were coming through the chimney and shining on the floor... If not, was people able to calculate exactly where the sunlight would have penetrated inside houses? Yes, very relevant!
Weather forecasting relevant? Do people mainly stay inside houses when it was sunny? Outside? Relevant? Visibility relevant? Was the rest of the house dark? Habits of the people relevant (e.g. they sleep a lot)? Relevant what happens in rainy days? In days without sunlight? No/irr to rest.

To be sure...was he speaking about planet Earth? Yes.

In the book: does he describe houses? The interior design of houses? The disposition of furnitures? Of certain type of furniture? The shape of the windows (well, were there windows? Does the sunlight penetrates through them? Relevant? Were there doors?)? The location of houses? The dimension of houses? Sunlight? Shadows that he was able to see? Shadow of houses? What houses look like from a distance? The fact that he saw just points of light from a distance? Relevant the relative positions of the houses one to the other? Irr.--The book does describe going to this land, so presumably the houses are mentioned, but details are irrelevant.

Was sunlight penetration somehow "guided" by the people inside the house? Was there a unique "point of penetration" for sunlight inside houses? If so, relevant which one it was? A window? The chimney? This is the relevant opening for sunlight to come in, but FA still lurking. Small openings? Were houses tall (e.g. skyscreapers)? Do they develop underground? Was the chinney on the floor level? (E.g. he said in the book that the people was organized like in an anthill) No to rest.
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Re: [IrishElk] Beneath Their Shoulders

Postby Earnest » Sun Aug 11, 2019 7:33 am

Astronomy relevant? Astrology? (E.g. he lied about the fact that the people was extremely capable to read the stars and predict the future. To prove this since he did not spoke their language nor they knew telescope/it was years before its invention, he justified what he said by telling the story about the chimney to prove their ability to calculate the trajectory of sunlight).

Did he said they had no fire? (So the accurate calculation of sunlight trajectory allowed them to concentrate sun in a focal point to boil food) were they able to "preserve" sun energy? Did he lie about the abilities of the people? Were they anle to calculate in fact the penetration of sunlight in chimbeys? Did they allow all sunlight to pass? Were they able to distinguish uva and uvb? Is religion/culture relevant (maybe already asked)? Sun veneration? Privacy relevant (e.g sunlight passes so that just the common rooms were enlightened)? Education?
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Re: [IrishElk] Beneath Their Shoulders

Postby irishelk » Sun Aug 11, 2019 4:39 pm

Earnest

Astronomy relevant? Astrology? (E.g. he lied about the fact that the people was extremely capable to read the stars and predict the future. To prove this since he did not spoke their language nor they knew telescope/it was years before its invention, he justified what he said by telling the story about the chimney to prove their ability to calculate the trajectory of sunlight).
Did he said they had no fire? (So the accurate calculation of sunlight trajectory allowed them to concentrate sun in a focal point to boil food) were they able to "preserve" sun energy? Did he lie about the abilities of the people? Were they anle to calculate in fact the penetration of sunlight in chimbeys? Did they allow all sunlight to pass? Were they able to distinguish uva and uvb? Is religion/culture relevant (maybe already asked)? Sun veneration? Privacy relevant (e.g sunlight passes so that just the common rooms were enlightened)? Education? No/irr to all--The lying related to the book is simpler and more fundamental, and I think it has already been discovered...or at least implied...
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Re: [IrishElk] Beneath Their Shoulders

Postby irishelk » Sat Aug 24, 2019 12:27 pm

I'm going to spoil this one, because I think all the fun parts have been figured out =)

*******************SPOILER

As usual, I've completely forgotten exactly where I've gotten this anecdote from--source amnesia is real. I'm 90% sure it's about Sir John Mandeville, but it might possibly have been Marco Polo or some other medieval explorer.

In any case, he wrote memoirs claiming to have visited many exotic, faraway lands and encountered bizarre, often supernatural types of people (often very racist and insulting accounts, of course, as was the fashion at the time). The story goes that once while he was discussing his books, an intelligent cynic in the audience asked about the lighting in the homes of these strange peoples, and specifically at what time of day and at what angle does the sun shine down their chimney. The idea was that if Mandeville had actually visited with these people, he would know, and a fairly simple calculation of the sun's angle at that latitude would verify if he was telling the truth.

Mandeville immediately explained that these foreign people had corkscrew-shaped chimneys, so no sunlight shone down them!
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