[Balin] Pants

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[Balin] Pants

Postby Balin » Sun Oct 20, 2019 5:12 pm

Ron and Marco are doing the same action. Ron does the action many times, but is criticized. Marco only does the action a few times and is praised. Why?

Quickie Paradox invocation
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Re: [Balin] Pants

Postby WiZ » Sun Oct 20, 2019 7:37 pm

Let's put this old paradox to the test, then. And see if I remember my questions because I find my log-in gets forgotten every 5 minutes these days. Select All + Copy is my friend...


Do they perform the same action in order to achieve the same result? Do they, in fact, achieve the same result? Are the majority of Ron's attempts poor or ineffectual? Does Marco demonstrate more skill or better judgment?

Are they criticised by a superior? The public? Peers? Are they doing their jobs? Formal unpaid work? Practicing a hobby?

Are they public figures? Is there public interest in their performing these actions well? Are people depending on, or deeply invested in, the outcomes of their actions? Are they athletes? Performers? Politicians?

Is the action a crucial part of what they are trying to achieve? Is it an incidental part (I'm thinking of a puzzle I ran a few years ago about athletes running a similar course for an hour - they were footballers, with the ref running the longest distance and the goalkeeper running the shortest - thus 'running' being the incidental action)
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Re: [Balin] Pants

Postby gregoryuconn » Tue Oct 22, 2019 12:56 am

Title relative? Removing one's pants? And Marco is praised for only removing his pants when he's supposed to, while Ron is criticized for doing it at inappropriate times?
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Re: [Balin] Pants

Postby invisiblemimsy » Thu Oct 24, 2019 2:07 pm

'Pants' as in 'trousers', or as in 'underwear'?

Do Ron and Marco know each other? Or are related in some way, not necessarily blood? Do they relevantly have anything in common?
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Re: [Balin] Pants

Postby Balin » Fri Oct 25, 2019 10:08 pm

Do they perform the same action in order to achieve the same result? Yes Do they, in fact, achieve the same result? Eventually Are the majority of Ron's attempts poor or ineffectual? Yes Does Marco demonstrate more skill or better judgment? Yes, more skill

Are they criticised by a superior? The public? Most relevantly Peers? Are they doing their jobs? Yes Formal unpaid work? Practicing a hobby? But this works just as well

Are they public figures? Yes Is there public interest in their performing these actions well? Some Are people depending on, or deeply invested in, the outcomes of their actions? Some people may be, but not relevantly Are they athletes? Yes Performers? Politicians?

Is the action a crucial part of what they are trying to achieve? Yes Is it an incidental part (I'm thinking of a puzzle I ran a few years ago about athletes running a similar course for an hour - they were footballers, with the ref running the longest distance and the goalkeeper running the shortest - thus 'running' being the incidental action) Pretty cool - I'll have to find that one. But no

Title relative? Laterally Removing one's pants? No And Marco is praised for only removing his pants when he's supposed to, while Ron is criticized for doing it at inappropriate times? No

'Pants' as in 'trousers', or as in 'underwear'? The former, but don't worry about the title

Do Ron and Marco know each other? Probably, but irrel Or are related in some way, not necessarily blood? No Do they relevantly have anything in common? Yes
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Re: [Balin] Pants

Postby Earnest » Sat Oct 26, 2019 11:01 am

Can we assume Ron = Marco =HAM? Paralympics athletes relevant? Are R and M teammates? Independent athletes? "Enemies"? Did Ron repeat the action many times because he was unable to perform it? Had he been more skilled would it have taken less times for him to perform? May I invoke the list of sports?

Is R criticised by his own fans? because unable to perform the action? Because not following the rules? Because he made them lose money? Because unethical (e.g. whipping the horse several times but going slow while Marco whipped the horse just few tines and won?)?Are targets relevant? Did R perform the action repeatedly? Waiting some time between one take and another? Did he follow the rules? Did R repeat the wrong action?

Relevant that Marco is an italian name xD
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Re: [Balin] Pants

Postby Balin » Sat Oct 26, 2019 8:01 pm

Can we assume Ron=HAM? Marco =HAM? Both are H/A/M, Yes Paralympics athletes relevant? No Are R and M teammates? Independent athletes? This "Enemies"? Did Ron repeat the action many times because he was unable to perform it? No Had he been more skilled would it have taken less times for him to perform? Yes May I invoke the list of sports? Sorry

Is R criticised by his own fans? Probably because unable to perform the action? Unable to perform it well Because not following the rules? No Because he made them lose money? If any of them bet on him, but Irrel Because unethical No (e.g. whipping the horse several times but going slow while Marco whipped the horse just few tines and won?)? No Are targets relevant? No Did R perform the action repeatedly? Yes Waiting some time between one take and another? Yes Did he follow the rules? Yes Did R repeat the wrong action? No

Relevant that Marco is an italian name xD No
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Re: [Balin] Pants

Postby gregoryuconn » Sun Oct 27, 2019 2:42 am

High jump relevant? Some other sport where you have a certain amount of tries to do a certain thing? Relevant that (at least in high jump) the number of failed tries is the tiebreaker?
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Re: [Balin] Pants

Postby Earnest » Sun Oct 27, 2019 7:50 am

Do they perform the action(s) in the same event? At the same time? One after the other? Together? In television? On the street? Was Ron genuinely unable to perform the action in a good way? Is the action typical of the sport in question? Has it got a name? (e.g.like in dance, martial arts...) Relevant? (e.g. the name was spelled in French or in another language or using a name that Ron was unable to understand) Are there a maximum number of failed tries he could perform? Is a game being played? By Ron and Marco? Is the game stopped for each failed try? Would Ron have been criticized even after having succeeded? Is the number of failed tries relevant?

Sport: played with weapons? With a ball? Swimming? Running? climbing? Surfing? Golf? Bowling? Tennis? Rugby? Football? Curling? Others?

Is the action indirectly part of the sport? I mean for instance Ron was unable to properly tie his shoelaces so that each time he was forced to stop and tie them again? In this vein I ask: are any tools relevant in order to play the sport?
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Re: [Balin] Pants

Postby Balin » Sun Oct 27, 2019 12:16 pm

High jump relevant? No Some other sport where you have a certain amount of tries to do a certain thing? Not quite Relevant that (at least in high jump) the number of failed tries is the tiebreaker? No

Do they perform the action(s) in the same event? Assume so At the same time? Not necessarily One after the other? Possibly Together? Not necessarily In television? Possibly On the street? No Was Ron genuinely unable to perform the action in a good way? Yes Is the action typical of the sport in question? Yes Has it got a name? (e.g.like in dance, martial arts...) Relevant? No (e.g. the name was spelled in French or in another language or using a name that Ron was unable to understand) Not like this Are there a maximum number of failed tries he could perform? No Is a game being played? Yes By Ron and Marco? Yes Is the game stopped for each failed try? No Would Ron have been criticized even after having succeeded? Yes Is the number of failed tries relevant? Not the exact number

Sport: played with weapons? With a ball? Swimming? Running? climbing? Surfing? Golf? This, next question should kill it Bowling? Tennis? Rugby? Football? Curling? Others?

Is the action indirectly part of the sport? Not indirectly I mean for instance Ron was unable to properly tie his shoelaces so that each time he was forced to stop and tie them again? No In this vein I ask: are any tools relevant in order to play the sport? Yes, see above
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Re: [Balin] Pants

Postby gregoryuconn » Sun Oct 27, 2019 2:11 pm

Hitting the ball? On a certain hole? Or just in general taking more strokes?
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Re: [Balin] Pants

Postby Balin » Sun Oct 27, 2019 4:49 pm

Hitting the ball? On a certain hole? Or just in general taking more strokes? Yep.

****SPOILER****

Ron and Marco are golfers. Since Marco takes fewer strokes to hit the ball into the hole, he is praised, while Ron (who is worse and takes many more strokes) is criticized.

This was indeed a quickie. Good job.
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