[Balin] You said there wouldn't be any math

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[Balin] You said there wouldn't be any math

Postby Balin » Fri Dec 13, 2019 2:50 am

4+4+4: odd
4+5+4: even
4+4+4: even

Explain.
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Re: [Balin] You said there wouldn't be any math

Postby Earnest » Fri Dec 13, 2019 9:12 am

Yeeee math!

So relevant that 4+4+4 = 4*3? Do odd and even refer to the result of the sums? Do 4 and 5 refer to something? Can they be considered as generic numbers? Digits? Positions? Orders? Degrees? Relevant that 4*3=12 is even? Is the position relevant: i.e. the second 4+4+4 is even after 4+5+4 because is after the latter sum? Or it would have been even also in the case that there was not the second sum? Does the plus sign refer actually to a sum? Would the puzzle work if stated as:

4+4+4 = 12: odd
4+5+4 = 13: even
4+4+4 = 12: even
?
Or:

4+4+4: odd
4+4+4: even
4+5+4: even
?

Do "odd" and "even" refer to numbers? To digits? To letters? Words? Even means a multiple of 2 and "odd" all numbers of the form "2k+1"? (I mean, can we assume usual meaning?) If so are the first two statements False and the third one true?
Any of such form is relevant?
4+4+4 4+5+4 4+4+4
12 13 12 ? Binary numbers? Roman numbers? Others? Is the relative position of numbers and words in the sentence relevant?

Christmas relevant? Days of rhe week? Calendar? Can 4+5+4 be odd? Can other numbers that just 4s and 5s appear? If so is there a boundary? E.g. max number = 9? 10? 123944949? Infinity? Relevant? Do numbers must be summed together? Or there can be also a - sign? A × sign? A : sign? A generic sign (e.g.~)? If so between them?
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Re: [Balin] You said there wouldn't be any math

Postby Balin » Fri Dec 13, 2019 11:06 am

Yeeee math!

So relevant that 4+4+4 = 4*3? No Do odd and even refer to the result of the sums? No Do 4 and 5 refer to something? Yes Can they be considered as generic numbers? No Digits? Positions? Orders? Degrees? Not these Relevant that 4*3=12 is even? No Is the position relevant: i.e. the second 4+4+4 is even after 4+5+4 because is after the latter sum? Yes Or it would have been even also in the case that there was not the second sum? No Does the plus sign refer actually to a sum? No Would the puzzle work if stated as:

4+4+4 = 12: odd
4+5+4 = 13: even
4+4+4 = 12: even
? No
Or:

4+4+4: odd
4+4+4: even
4+5+4: even
? Also No

Do "odd" and "even" refer to numbers? Noish To digits? To letters? Words? No to these Even means a multiple of 2 and "odd" all numbers of the form "2k+1"? Yes (I mean, can we assume usual meaning?) Yes If so are the first two statements False and the third one true? No
Any of such form is relevant?
4+4+4 4+5+4 4+4+4 This still works
12 13 12 ? Not this Binary numbers? Roman numbers? Others? No to these Is the relative position of numbers and words in the sentence relevant? Yes

Christmas relevant? Days of rhe week? Calendar? No to these Can 4+5+4 be odd? In some other situation, Yes Can other numbers that just 4s and 5s appear? No If so is there a boundary? Yes E.g. max number = 9? 10? 123944949? Infinity? Smaller than 9 Relevant? It will help Do numbers must be summed together? They're not being summed Or there can be also a - sign? A × sign? A : sign? A generic sign (e.g.~)? If so between them? Yes, a generic sign like a dash would have also worked
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Re: [Balin] You said there wouldn't be any math

Postby Earnest » Fri Dec 13, 2019 11:27 am

So
4-4-4: odd
5-4-5:even
4-4-4:even
works?

Is a game relevant? Technology relevant? Do odd and even refer to eacg sequence separatedly? Do 4 and 5 refer to: combinations? Football schemes? Strategies? Coordinates? Some unit of measurament? Positions? Phone digits relevant? Pin? Passwords?

May such numbers change? If the first is 4-4-4, is the second 5-4-5 necessarily? If the first is 4-4-4: odd, is the second necessarily 4--5-4: even? Relevant that just the middle number has changed? Could it have been 4-3-9? Or some other combination of numbers from 0 to 9? Relevant the reason why a + sign has been adopted? Keyboards relevant? Odometers? Cars? Engines? Could also the second 4-4-4 have been odd?

Is 9-9-9 odd? Even? Is 0-0-0 possible? Even? Odd?
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Re: [Balin] You said there wouldn't be any math

Postby Balin » Sat Dec 14, 2019 9:19 pm

So
4-4-4: odd
5-4-5:even
4-4-4:even
works? No

Is a game relevant? Technology relevant? Neither Do odd and even refer to eacg sequence separatedly? No Do 4 and 5 refer to: combinations? Football schemes? Strategies? Coordinates? Some unit of measurament? Positions? Phone digits relevant? Pin? Passwords? Not these

May such numbers change? They could theoretically be different numbers If the first is 4-4-4, is the second 5-4-5 necessarily? No If the first is 4-4-4: odd, is the second necessarily 4--5-4: even? No Relevant that just the middle number has changed? Yes, but not that it is the middle number Could it have been 4-3-9? Unlikely Or some other combination of numbers from 0 to 9? Unlikely Relevant the reason why a + sign has been adopted? No Keyboards relevant? Yes Odometers? Cars? Engines? Not these Could also the second 4-4-4 have been odd? No

Is 9-9-9 odd? Even It would probably not be odd or even Is 0-0-0 possible? No Even? Odd?
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Re: [Balin] You said there wouldn't be any math

Postby irishelk » Tue Dec 17, 2019 3:35 pm

So "even" is being used in the sense of an even number? Is "odd" being used in the sense of an odd number (1,3,5...)?

Is the relevant keyboard that of a computer? A QUERTY? Is it a piano keyboard? Or another musical instrument?
Do the numbers refer to keys on a keyboard? Fingers on a hand?

Is something being input that results in the "even" or "odd" tag? Are even and odd describing 4+4+4, 4+5+4, and 4+4+4? Are they describing the results of 4+4+4, 4+5+4, and 4+4+4? Describe something that is being created by 4+4+4, 4+5+4, and 4+4+4?
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Re: [Balin] You said there wouldn't be any math

Postby Balin » Tue Dec 17, 2019 4:25 pm

So "even" is being used in the sense of an even number? Yes Is "odd" being used in the sense of an odd number Yes (1,3,5...)? 1 and 3

Is the relevant keyboard that of a computer? A QUERTY? Is it a piano keyboard? This Or another musical instrument?
Do the numbers refer to keys on a keyboard? Fingers on a hand? Not these

Is something being input that results in the "even" or "odd" tag? I wouldn't say "input" Are even and odd describing 4+4+4, 4+5+4, and 4+4+4? No Are they describing the results of 4+4+4, 4+5+4, and 4+4+4? Yope Describe something that is being created by 4+4+4, 4+5+4, and 4+4+4? Noish
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Re: [Balin] You said there wouldn't be any math

Postby irishelk » Fri Jan 03, 2020 12:34 pm

Are the numerals referring to intervals? Maybe the first line is directing us to go up by a fourth, then a fourth, then a fourth? which lands you on the third note of the scale, an "odd" answer? Anything along those lines?

If not, are specific keys relevant? Black vs. white keys? Which fingers are used to play?
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Re: [Balin] You said there wouldn't be any math

Postby Balin » Sat Jan 04, 2020 7:04 pm

Are the numerals referring to intervals? No Maybe the first line is directing us to go up by a fourth, then a fourth, then a fourth? which lands you on the third note of the scale, an "odd" answer? Anything along those lines? Clever idea, but it's not this.

If not, are specific keys relevant? Black vs. white keys? Which fingers are used to play? No to these
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Re: [Balin] You said there wouldn't be any math

Postby Earnest » Tue Jan 07, 2020 8:01 am

So "odd" can be either 1 or 3, right? Is the first odd 1? 3? What about even: can it be 2? 4? 6? 8? Just 2 and 4? Can it be reproduced on a guitar? Relevant that a piano has 52 white keys and 36 black keys?

Is 4+4 a full octave? Is 4+4+4 a full 12 notes?
White and black keys relevant? Relevant that there are 3 black keys every 4 white keys? And 5 every 7? Are notes relevant? Pentagram? Intervals? Ritmo? Tempo? Sharp notes? Flat notes? Sound of the notes? Hertz? Watts? Measure of sound? Relevant that piano is played with two hands? Timing relevant?Time measure (seconds, minutes, hours...)? Value of the notes? Do odd and even refer to the same as 4s and 5s? Do 4s and 5s refer to single units/entities? To 4 units and 5 units/entities? (e.g. 4 seconds refer to 4 times one second which is a single unit but "a fourth" is the basic unit itself and cannot refer to a "single" unit)

Are 4 and 5: fingers? Notes? Spaces? Intervals? Values? Measures? Lengths? Dates? Chords? parts of the keyboard? Arbitrary numbers? Numbers assigned to some parts of the keyboard?

Do the 4 and 5 come into play when the keyboard is played? Also without playing the notes on the keyboard?

Is the second line a change of notation? Of reference system? (Such that the second time 4+4+4 becomes even?) Is the second 4+4+4 the same as the first? Does it refer to the same values/notes/numbers/others? Orchestra relevant?

Are the lines in the statement separated/independent one from the other? Is there a dependency? If so: first 4 with first 4? With 5? With last 4? With third line? Can it be seen as a matrix? odd and even can bee translated into numbers directly in the statement or are they relevantly written in letters? (e.g. odd = O (note value) D D (D chord); even = E (chord) V (upbow) E N (don't know))

Can the puzzle be read vertically as in pentagrams? i.e. from
4+4+4: odd
4+5+4: even
4+4+4: even
to:
4 4 4:O D D
4 5 4:E V E N
4 4 4:E V E N
It is basically a square of 4s which surrounds a 5....is this configuration relevant?
Sound of the keys of the phone if reproduced on a piano?

Is odd and even just the result of three numbers' addition/operations? Or also of four / five / more numbers' operations? Is the "+" sign meaningful? Are the ":"? We said that + can be replaced by a dash: is the whatever symbol meaningful just in the sense that it separates the 4s and 5s or also because it has a value itself? Is the separation a precise interval of time? A full point? A conventional sign? Something that bounds together the three numbers (i.e. they are all part of the same chord/musical symbol)? Are 4 and 5 related to music? To piano keyboard directly? Also to other instruments? Is saying out loud "4+4+4: odd" relevant? Relevantly different from saying "4+4+4: even"? "4+5+4: even"?
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Re: [Balin] You said there wouldn't be any math

Postby Balin » Tue Jan 07, 2020 11:01 pm

So "odd" can be either 1 or 3, right? Not "or"...{/b] Is the first odd 1? [b]Yes 3? Yes What about even: can it be 2? 4? 6? 8? See next Just 2 and 4? This Can it be reproduced on a guitar? Yes Relevant that a piano has 52 white keys and 36 black keys? No

Is 4+4 a full octave? No Is 4+4+4 a full 12 notes? No
White and black keys relevant? Relevant that there are 3 black keys every 4 white keys? And 5 every 7? Are notes relevant? Pentagram? Intervals? Ritmo? Tempo? Sharp notes? Flat notes? Sound of the notes? Hertz? Watts? Measure of sound? Relevant that piano is played with two hands? Timing relevant? Time measure (seconds, minutes, hours...)? Value of the notes? No to all of these
Do odd and even refer to the same as 4s and 5s? No, not quite Do 4s and 5s refer to single units/entities? Yes To 4 units and 5 units/entities? (e.g. 4 seconds refer to 4 times one second which is a single unit but "a fourth" is the basic unit itself and cannot refer to a "single" unit) Not like this

Are 4 and 5: fingers? Notes? Spaces? Intervals? Values? Measures? This Lengths? Dates? Chords? parts of the keyboard? Arbitrary numbers? Numbers assigned to some parts of the keyboard?

Do the 4 and 5 come into play when the keyboard is played? Yes Also without playing the notes on the keyboard? No

Is the second line a change of notation? Of reference system? Not these (Such that the second time 4+4+4 becomes even?) Somehow Is the second 4+4+4 the same as the first? Yope Does it refer to the same values/notes/numbers/others? Yes Orchestra relevant? No

Are the lines in the statement separated/independent one from the other? No Is there a dependency? Yes If so: first 4 with first 4? With 5? With last 4? With third line? All three go together Can it be seen as a matrix? No odd and even can bee translated into numbers directly in the statement or are they relevantly written in letters? The letters hold no value (e.g. odd = O (note value) D D (D chord); even = E (chord) V (upbow) E N (don't know)) No

Can the puzzle be read vertically as in pentagrams? i.e. from
4+4+4: odd
4+5+4: even
4+4+4: even
to:
4 4 4:O D D
4 5 4:E V E N
4 4 4:E V E N
It is basically a square of 4s which surrounds a 5....is this configuration relevant? No
Sound of the keys of the phone if reproduced on a piano? No

Is odd and even just the result of three numbers' addition/operations? Or also of four / five / more numbers' operations? This Is the "+" sign meaningful? In a way Are the ":"? Not so much We said that + can be replaced by a dash: is the whatever symbol meaningful just in the sense that it separates the 4s and 5s This or also because it has a value itself? Is the separation a precise interval of time? Yope A full point? A conventional sign? Not these Something that bounds together the three numbers (i.e. they are all part of the same chord/musical symbol)? Yope Are 4 and 5 related to music? Yes To piano keyboard directly? Not specifically Also to other instruments? Could be Is saying out loud "4+4+4: odd" relevant? No Relevantly different from saying "4+4+4: even"? No "4+5+4: even"? No
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Re: [Balin] You said there wouldn't be any math

Postby Earnest » Wed Jan 08, 2020 7:30 am

Can 4's and 5's be read in a pentagram? Lines and spaces on a pentagram? When read by a professional musician can they be simply read as "four plus four plus four" and so on? Or "one-two-three-four; one-two-three-four..." and so on (for the first row)?

Is a specific song relevant? Is tuning relevant? (E.g. the numbers are the numbers of times one has to turn the mechanism in order to tune the instrument) maybe the 4 and 5 are HZ? If they are a unit of measurament, do they measure: soubd frequency? Light? Sound waves? The number of times something happens? Tonalities? Pitches? Others?
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Re: [Balin] You said there wouldn't be any math

Postby irishelk » Fri Jan 10, 2020 12:56 pm

Is a specific song/composition relevant? Three songs?

4 and 5 are "measures"--are they literally the measures on a sheet of music (like the space between two vertical lines)? Are they "measuring" something else? Time signatures relevant (3/4, 4/4, 6/8 etc.)?
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Re: [Balin] You said there wouldn't be any math

Postby Balin » Sat Jan 11, 2020 9:52 am

Can 4's and 5's be read in a pentagram? No Lines and spaces on a pentagram? No When read by a professional musician can they be simply read as "four plus four plus four" and so on? Probably wouldn't say "plus" Or "one-two-three-four; one-two-three-four..." and so on (for the first row)? Possibly

Is a specific song relevant? No Is tuning relevant? No (E.g. the numbers are the numbers of times one has to turn the mechanism in order to tune the instrument) maybe the 4 and 5 are HZ? No If they are a unit of measurament, do they measure: See below soubd frequency? Light? Sound waves? The number of times something happens? Tonalities? Pitches? Others?

Is a specific song/composition relevant? No Three songs? No - this all takes place during one piece of music. The exact name of the song is irrelevant, which is why I said No to previous

4 and 5 are "measures"--are they literally the measures Yes, see below on a sheet of music No (like the space between two vertical lines)? Are they "measuring" something else? No Time signatures relevant (3/4, 4/4, 6/8 etc.)? Yes!
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Re: [Balin] You said there wouldn't be any math

Postby Earnest » Sat Jan 11, 2020 11:56 am

additive time measures relevant? Odd meters?
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Re: [Balin] You said there wouldn't be any math

Postby Balin » Tue Jan 14, 2020 2:26 pm

additive time measures relevant? No Odd meters? For svv of "odd"
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Re: [Balin] You said there wouldn't be any math

Postby Earnest » Wed Jan 15, 2020 2:19 pm

are 4+4+4 , 4+5+4, 4+4+4 time signatures "directly"? I.e., is 4+4+4 a 4/4? a 3/4? a 6/8? either? others? are 4s and 5s numerators? Denominators? both? Relevant how time measures are constructed: "The Numerator in the time signature indicates the number of beats in a measure. For example, in 4/4, there are 4 beats per measure.
The Denominator indicates which type of note receives one beat. If the denominator is a 4, a quarter note counts as one beat; if the denominator is an 8, an eighth note counts as one beat; if the denominator is a 16, a 16th note counts as one beat, and so on... " ?

Do 1 and 3 of odd and 2 and 4 oof even indicates time measures as well? Gestures? ticks? Pages? Pages of a book? Hertz? notes? Energy measures? Time measures? Movements with the hand? With the hand on the instrument? Other movements? Radio relevant? Is the puzzle clearer if a song is played/listened? The fact that, for instance, odd is 1 and 3 at the same time suggests me something circular...is odd 1 in a "system" and 3 in another one? Is it 1 and 3 at the same time because it is written as 1 on 3 (or viceversa)? Because is the beginning of something and the end of something else? Because it is made with two hands/ more fingers?

Is any deep knowledge of music required? solfége? Gestures made by orchestra conductor relevant? wind instruments relevant? Can it be reproduced with wind instruments?
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Re: [Balin] You said there wouldn't be any math

Postby Balin » Thu Jan 16, 2020 9:28 pm

are 4+4+4 , 4+5+4, 4+4+4 time signatures "directly"? See next I.e., is 4+4+4 a 4/4? a 3/4? a 6/8? either? others? are 4s and 5s numerators? Denominators? both? All "4"s represent measures in 4/4. The "5" represents one measure in 5/4."
Relevant how time measures are constructed: "The Numerator in the time signature indicates the number of beats in a measure. For example, in 4/4, there are 4 beats per measure. The Denominator indicates which type of note receives one beat. If the denominator is a 4, a quarter note counts as one beat; if the denominator is an 8, an eighth note counts as one beat; if the denominator is a 16, a 16th note counts as one beat, and so on... " ? [b]Not particularly, but one bit in there may help


Do 1 and 3 of odd and 2 and 4 oof even indicates time measures as well? Gestures? ticks? Pages? Pages of a book? Hertz? notes? Energy measures? Time measures? No to all previous, but they partially designate something within the measures Movements with the hand? Partially With the hand on the instrument? No Other movements? Partially Radio relevant? No Is the puzzle clearer if a song is played/listened? No, but it may indirectly hint if the song is upbeat and you groove along with it
The fact that, for instance, odd is 1 and 3 at the same time suggests me something circular...is odd 1 in a "system" and 3 in another one? Is it 1 and 3 at the same time because it is written as 1 on 3 (or viceversa)? Because is the beginning of something and the end of something else? Because it is made with two hands/ more fingers? No to these

Is any deep knowledge of music required? No, nothing beyond time signatures and measures solfége? No Gestures made by orchestra conductor relevant? No wind instruments relevant? No Can it be reproduced with wind instruments? Theoretically
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Re: [Balin] You said there wouldn't be any math

Postby Earnest » Fri Jan 17, 2020 6:16 am

Is dancing relevant? Keeping time with a foot/hand relevant?
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Re: [Balin] You said there wouldn't be any math

Postby Balin » Sat Jan 18, 2020 12:15 am

Is dancing relevant? No Keeping time with a foot/hand relevant? Not "a" hand...
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Re: [Balin] You said there wouldn't be any math

Postby Earnest » Sun Jan 19, 2020 6:56 am

A drum? A tool? A musical tool? Something usually used to keep time? An app in the phone? Something dividing the tones (bass, highs...)? A dj mixer?
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Re: [Balin] You said there wouldn't be any math

Postby Balin » Sun Jan 19, 2020 4:38 pm

A drum? A tool? A musical tool? Something usually used to keep time? Yes/Yope An app in the phone? Something dividing the tones (bass, highs...)? A dj mixer? No to rest
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Re: [Balin] You said there wouldn't be any math

Postby Earnest » Sun Jan 19, 2020 6:59 pm

Keep time = to produce the beat? Maybe something that was keeping that time due to an external force (e.g. wind that made the window slam?
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Re: [Balin] You said there wouldn't be any math

Postby Balin » Mon Jan 20, 2020 4:08 pm

Keep time = to produce the beat? Yes Maybe something that was keeping that time due to an external force (e.g. wind that made the window slam? No
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Re: [Balin] You said there wouldn't be any math

Postby Earnest » Tue Jan 21, 2020 7:54 am

Not "a" hand... --> so maybe both hands? Clapping hands relevant? "We will rock you" relevant? Is the division of a song into: intro, chorus and reef relevant? Rythm relevant?

is a gospel choir relevant? Fans at the stadium? People clapping all together? People at a concert? Public?

WAG --> Maybe the hypothesis of a chorus is right one can divide the chorus into sections: 1,2,3 and 4. When the first 3 4/4 are played, part 1 and 3 clap their hands. When the remaining parts are played it's the turn of parts 2 and 4 of the choir...
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Re: [Balin] You said there wouldn't be any math

Postby Balin » Thu Jan 23, 2020 8:38 pm

Not "a" hand... --> so maybe both hands? Yes Clapping hands relevant? Yes "We will rock you" relevant? No Is the division of a song into: intro, chorus and reef relevant? No Rythm relevant? Yes(ish)

is a gospel choir relevant? No Fans at the stadium? No People clapping all together? Yes People at a concert? Yes Public? See prev

WAG --> Maybe the hypothesis of a chorus is right one can divide the chorus into sections: 1,2,3 and 4. When the first 3 4/4 are played, part 1 and 3 clap their hands. When the remaining parts are played it's the turn of parts 2 and 4 of the choir... No - not a bad idea though
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Re: [Balin] You said there wouldn't be any math

Postby Hobbsicle » Tue Jan 28, 2020 8:10 pm

Could we possibly get a recap on this? I tried to read through it but got lost a bit in the details of all the questions.
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Re: [Balin] You said there wouldn't be any math

Postby Balin » Wed Jan 29, 2020 1:59 am

Could we possibly get a recap on this? I tried to read through it but got lost a bit in the details of all the questions. Gotcha covered.

****RECAP****

The 4s and 5 represent measures in (respectively) 4/4 and 5/4 time.
This occurs during a song performed live. (Exact song/artist is irrelevant.)
The changeover from "odd" to "even" occurs immediately following the 5/4 measure.
There are a lengthy number of 4/4 measures both before and after the single 5/4 measure.
This involves the audience clapping along with the performance.

(This is actually quite close to being solved.)
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Re: [Balin] You said there wouldn't be any math

Postby Hobbsicle » Wed Jan 29, 2020 3:17 am

Ah, they’re clapping on beats one and three, until they throw the extra beat in there, now they find themselves clapping on the two and four?
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Re: [Balin] You said there wouldn't be any math

Postby Balin » Wed Jan 29, 2020 6:03 pm

Ah, they’re clapping on beats one and three, until they throw the extra beat in there, now they find themselves clapping on the two and four? Got it.

****SPOILER****

During this performance, Harry Connick Jr. plays a single bar in 5/4 time, thereby switching the audience from clapping on the odd beats to the evens.
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