[Balin] In seinen Armen das Kind war tot

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[Balin] In seinen Armen das Kind war tot

Postby Balin » Thu Jan 16, 2020 9:35 pm

Rebekah saves Naomi's life one night. By doing so, she saves Caleb's life many years later. How?
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Re: [Balin] In seinen Armen das Kind war tot

Postby trebor » Thu Jan 16, 2020 10:06 pm

Is Naomi related to Caleb? Is Rebekah? Has Caleb been born yet when Rebekah saves Naomi’s life? Is it relevant what Rebekah saves Naomi from? How she saves her? Is the profession of any of them relevant? Does Rebekah work in health care? Does Naomi? Is Naomi Caleb’s mother? Does Caleb inherit something from Naomi? Does Rebekah ever know that she’s saved Caleb’s life? Does Naomi? Does Caleb? Are all three of them HAs? After her life is saved, does Naomi go on to do something that ends up saving Caleb’s life? Perhaps without her knowing it? Making Rebekah responsible sort of for the whole thing?
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Re: [Balin] In seinen Armen das Kind war tot

Postby Balin » Sat Jan 18, 2020 12:15 am

Is Naomi related to Caleb? Yes Is Rebekah? No Has Caleb been born yet when Rebekah saves Naomi’s life? Yope (sigh) Is it relevant what Rebekah saves Naomi from? Yes How she saves her? Yes Is the profession of any of them relevant? Yes, Rebekah Does Rebekah work in health care? Yes Does Naomi? No Is Naomi Caleb’s mother? Yes Does Caleb inherit something from Naomi? No Does Rebekah ever know that she’s saved Caleb’s life? Possibly Does Naomi? Possibly Does Caleb? Probably Are all three of them HAs? Rebekah and Naomi, Yes. Caleb... when?
After her life is saved, does Naomi go on to do something that ends up saving Caleb’s life? No Perhaps without her knowing it? Making Rebekah responsible sort of for the whole thing?
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Re: [Balin] In seinen Armen das Kind war tot

Postby GalFisk » Sat Jan 18, 2020 10:02 am

Does she save Naomi's life during Caleb's birth? While Caleb is a fetus? Is Caleb saved from: disease? Accident? War? Disaster? Suicide? Injury? Violence? Non-existence? Is Caleb's life saved when Caleb is an adult?
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Re: [Balin] In seinen Armen das Kind war tot

Postby Balin » Sat Jan 18, 2020 5:41 pm

Does she save Naomi's life during Caleb's birth? Yes While Caleb is a fetus? See previous Is Caleb saved from: disease? Accident? War? Disaster? Suicide? Injury? Violence? Non-existence? Nothing more complicated than "death." No to rest Is Caleb's life saved when Caleb is an adult? Yes
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Re: [Balin] In seinen Armen das Kind war tot

Postby trebor » Thu Jan 23, 2020 7:27 pm

Was Caleb born prematurely? Delivered by C-section? Born past his due date? Did Rebekah's actions result in Caleb having a different birth date than he otherwise would've? Which meant he avoided something dangerous? (The draft, etc.?)

Are any other circumstances of Caleb's birth relevant? Like, Naomi was particularly young, or had to escape an abusive situation to have her baby, etc.? Naomi's financial status relevant? Is Caleb's father relevant? Is there anything else about what Rebekah had to do medically that is relevant?

Is there a specific moment in Caleb's life where he would be likely to go, "Holy crap, my life was just saved!"?
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Re: [Balin] In seinen Armen das Kind war tot

Postby Balin » Thu Jan 23, 2020 8:54 pm

Was Caleb born prematurely? Delivered by C-section? Born past his due date? Assume No to all Did Rebekah's actions result in Caleb having a different birth date than he otherwise would've? Yes Which meant he avoided something dangerous? OTRT, but not quite (The draft, etc.?) Not the draft - we saw that one in a 2019 puzzle

Are any other circumstances of Caleb's birth relevant? For svv of "circumstances" - I'll say Yes Like, Naomi was particularly young, or had to escape an abusive situation to have her baby, etc.? Not these Naomi's financial status relevant? No Is Caleb's father relevant? No Is there anything else about what Rebekah had to do medically that is relevant? Nothing specifically medical, but one further detail about a Yes in previous questions will complete Rebekah's part in the story (and Naomi's).

Is there a specific moment in Caleb's life where he would be likely to go, "Holy crap, my life was just saved!"? Yes
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Re: [Balin] In seinen Armen das Kind war tot

Postby Alhucema » Fri Jan 24, 2020 8:47 pm

Concentration camp relevant?
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Re: [Balin] In seinen Armen das Kind war tot

Postby Alhucema » Fri Jan 24, 2020 10:41 pm

Is any of the protagonists Jewish? Relevant?

Is Rebekah physically present when saving Caleb`s life years later? Is Naomi?

Did the mere fact of Rebekah saving Naomi`s life save Caleb`s life years later (or did Rebekah have to do something else?)

Did Naomi save her son`s life (and was able to do so because Naomi had saved her during the childbirth)?
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Re: [Balin] In seinen Armen das Kind war tot

Postby Alhucema » Fri Jan 24, 2020 11:09 pm

sorry, it should have been "because Rebekah had saved her.."
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Re: [Balin] In seinen Armen das Kind war tot

Postby Balin » Sat Jan 25, 2020 5:49 pm

Just realized one of my "No" answers above is misleading.

trebor asked if Caleb was born past his due date. The due date is irrelevant, but due to Rebekah's intervention, Caleb was born one calendar day later.

Carrying on:


Concentration camp relevant? No

Is any of the protagonists Jewish? Yes, all of them Relevant? Very

Is Rebekah physically present when saving Caleb`s life years later? Possibly, irrel Is Naomi? Possibly, irrel

Did the mere fact of Rebekah saving Naomi`s life save Caleb`s life years later Yes (or did Rebekah have to do something else?)

Did Naomi save her son`s life (and was able to do so because Rebekah had saved her during the childbirth)? No

Good to see you again Alhucema!
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Re: [Balin] In seinen Armen das Kind war tot

Postby Alhucema » Sat Jan 25, 2020 6:02 pm

Thank you, Balin, glad to see you too!

If Rebekah was dead at the time when Caleb`s life was saved, would it still have been saved?

Was his life saved by: persuading somebody not to kill him? Circumcision relevant?
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Re: [Balin] In seinen Armen das Kind war tot

Postby Alhucema » Sat Jan 25, 2020 6:09 pm

Was it relevant that Naomi was alive at the time when Caleb`s life was saved?

Was the saving moment related to the fact Caleb was Jewish? Jewish matrilinearity related?
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Re: [Balin] In seinen Armen das Kind war tot

Postby Alhucema » Sat Jan 25, 2020 6:10 pm

Goethe related by any way :-)?
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Re: [Balin] In seinen Armen das Kind war tot

Postby Balin » Sat Jan 25, 2020 6:18 pm

If Rebekah was dead at the time when Caleb`s life was saved, would it still have been saved? Yes

Was his life saved by: persuading somebody not to kill him? No Circumcision relevant? No

Was it relevant that Naomi was alive at the time when Caleb`s life was saved? No

Was the saving moment related to the fact Caleb was Jewish? Yes Jewish matrilinearity related? No

Goethe related by any way :-)? Nah - I've been listening to Erlkönig quite a bit, and the possibility of a child dying fit with the theme of the puzzle
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Re: [Balin] In seinen Armen das Kind war tot

Postby Alhucema » Sat Jan 25, 2020 6:44 pm

Does the mere fact Caleb is Jewish save his life?

Time period relevant?
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Re: [Balin] In seinen Armen das Kind war tot

Postby trebor » Sat Jan 25, 2020 7:26 pm

Did Rebekah do something while working on Naomi that she wouldn't have done if neither of them were Jewish?

Are Jewish rites/rituals/traditions relevant? Caleb's Bar Mitvah? If his birth hadn't been delayed by one calendar day would he have been at synagogue when a terrorist act took place?
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Re: [Balin] In seinen Armen das Kind war tot

Postby Alhucema » Sat Jan 25, 2020 9:30 pm

Any other people relevant?

Was Caleb at risk of dying from: an injury? Accident? Disease? Starvation?
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Re: [Balin] In seinen Armen das Kind war tot

Postby GalFisk » Sun Jan 26, 2020 10:45 am

Did he relevantly have a different birth week? Month? Year? Did he relevantly share birth date with someone else? Relevantly not? Did anyone relevantly die?
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Re: [Balin] In seinen Armen das Kind war tot

Postby Balin » Sun Jan 26, 2020 6:19 pm

Does the mere fact Caleb is Jewish save his life? No

Time period relevant? Yes

Did Rebekah do something while working on Naomi that she wouldn't have done if neither of them were Jewish? No

Are Jewish rites/rituals/traditions relevant? Caleb's Bar Mitvah? If his birth hadn't been delayed by one calendar day would he have been at synagogue when a terrorist act took place? No to these

Any other people relevant? Yes, a group of people

Was Caleb at risk of dying from: an injury? Accident? Disease? Starvation? No to all

Did he relevantly have a different birth week? Month? Year? No to these Did he relevantly share birth date with someone else? No Relevantly not? No Did anyone relevantly die? Yes
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Re: [Balin] In seinen Armen das Kind war tot

Postby GalFisk » Mon Jan 27, 2020 1:57 pm

Did others in the group die? Was Caleb part of the group? Genocide relevant? Did other humans cause the relevant death(s)? Were the death(s) intentional? Quick? Many? Simultaneous?
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Re: [Balin] In seinen Armen das Kind war tot

Postby Balin » Mon Jan 27, 2020 11:50 pm

Did others in the group die? Yes Was Caleb part of the group? No Genocide relevant? No Did other humans cause the relevant death(s)? No Were the death(s) intentional? Yes Quick? Some Many? Yes Simultaneous? No
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Re: [Balin] In seinen Armen das Kind war tot

Postby GalFisk » Wed Jan 29, 2020 9:10 pm

Were the deaths: murders? Suicides? Accidents? Death from illness? Medical research relevant? Would Caleb have died if he'd been part of the group? Did all in the group die? Cults relevant?
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Re: [Balin] In seinen Armen das Kind war tot

Postby Balin » Thu Jan 30, 2020 1:50 pm

Were the deaths: murders? Suicides? Accidents? Death from illness? No to all Medical research relevant? No Would Caleb have died if he'd been part of the group? Yes Did all in the group die? Yes Cults relevant? No
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Re: [Balin] In seinen Armen das Kind war tot

Postby GalFisk » Thu Jan 30, 2020 3:00 pm

Did he want to be part of the group? Was a birthday being celebrated? Did group members have the same birthday? Age? Did the group members choose to form the group? Did they want to be part of the group? Were the deaths intentional?
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Re: [Balin] In seinen Armen das Kind war tot

Postby trebor » Fri Feb 07, 2020 11:53 pm

Would Caleb have been part of the group had his birth date not been altered? Does he group have more than ten members? More than 100? 1,000? 1,000,000? Were the group members linked by: blood? Friendship? Sport? A hobby? Profession? Age? Religion? (Judaism?) Scholarly interests? Politics? Ethnicity?

The group didn’t all die simultaneously, but die they die within the same 24 hours? Week? Month? Year?

Did R save N’s life from complications related to he pregnancy? From something unrelated, but that would’ve triggered labour? (Or resulted in Naomi dying before she could give birth?)

Time period is relevant, eh? Is it BCE? 1 - 1000 CE? 1000 - 1500? 16th century? 17th? 18th? 19th? 20th? 21st? Hanukkah relevant, or the Hanukkah miracle? Another incident that happened to Jewish people?
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Re: [Balin] In seinen Armen das Kind war tot

Postby Alhucema » Sun Feb 09, 2020 1:01 am

Was a different date of birth prevent Caleb from being enlisted to an army? Go to school?
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Re: [Balin] In seinen Armen das Kind war tot

Postby Alhucema » Sun Feb 09, 2020 1:02 am

sorry, DID a different date prevent...
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Re: [Balin] In seinen Armen das Kind war tot

Postby Balin » Sun Feb 09, 2020 10:11 pm

Did he want to be part of the group? No (once the group was made distinct) Was a birthday being celebrated? No Did group members have the same birthday? No Age? No, but age is relevant Did the group members choose to form the group? No (once the group was made distinct) Did they want to be part of the group? No (once the group was made distinct) Were the deaths intentional? Yes

Would Caleb have been part of the group had his birth date not been altered? Yes Does he group have more than ten members? More than 100? 1,000? 1,000,000? Not sure about a million - probably up around there - but definitely over 1,000 Were the group members linked by: blood? Friendship? Sport? A hobby? Profession? Age? This... Religion? ...and this (Judaism?) Yes Scholarly interests? Politics? Ethnicity? And this

The group didn’t all die simultaneously, but die they die within the same 24 hours? Week? Month? Year? No to these

Did R save N’s life from complications related to he pregnancy? Yes, this From something unrelated, but that would’ve triggered labour? (Or resulted in Naomi dying before she could give birth?)

Time period is relevant, eh? Yes Is it BCE? This 1 - 1000 CE? 1000 - 1500? 16th century? 17th? 18th? 19th? 20th? 21st? Hanukkah relevant, or the Hanukkah miracle? No Another incident that happened to Jewish people? Yes

Did a different date of birth prevent Caleb from being enlisted to an army? Go to school? No to these
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Re: [Balin] In seinen Armen das Kind war tot

Postby Alhucema » Sun Feb 09, 2020 10:15 pm

King Herod relevant?
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Re: [Balin] In seinen Armen das Kind war tot

Postby Balin » Sun Feb 09, 2020 10:21 pm

King Herod relevant? No, but I think you're starting to get the right idea
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Re: [Balin] In seinen Armen das Kind war tot

Postby GalFisk » Mon Feb 10, 2020 6:44 am

Is it a story from the bible? Torah? Other religious text? Were the deaths ordered by God? A ruler? A warlord? A prophet? Another god? Does Caleb have any siblings? Relevant?
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Re: [Balin] In seinen Armen das Kind war tot

Postby Balin » Mon Feb 10, 2020 11:50 am

Is it a story from the bible? Yes Torah? And Yes Other religious text? Were the deaths ordered by God? Yes A ruler? A warlord? A prophet? They were announced through a prophet Another god? Does Caleb have any siblings? Relevant? Irrel
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Re: [Balin] In seinen Armen das Kind war tot

Postby GalFisk » Mon Feb 10, 2020 2:43 pm

Did he escape death because he was above a certain age? Because he missed a particular date? Weekday? Odd/even dates relevant?
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Re: [Balin] In seinen Armen das Kind war tot

Postby trebor » Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:45 pm

Is Passover relevant? Was Caleb one of a set of twins, and his sibling was, due to intervention, born first?

Failing that, are the Canaanites relevant?
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Re: [Balin] In seinen Armen das Kind war tot

Postby Alhucema » Wed Feb 12, 2020 10:37 pm

Being a firstborn relevant?
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Re: [Balin] In seinen Armen das Kind war tot

Postby Balin » Thu Feb 13, 2020 7:11 pm

Did he escape death because he was above a certain age? No... Because he missed a particular date? Weekday? Odd/even dates relevant? No to these

Is Passover relevant? Was Caleb one of a set of twins, and his sibling was, due to intervention, born first? No, but great guess

Failing that, are the Canaanites relevant? Yes...

Being a firstborn relevant? No, see above
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Re: [Balin] In seinen Armen das Kind war tot

Postby trebor » Thu Feb 13, 2020 10:09 pm

Well damn. I don’t know much about the Canaanites. Is Googling allowed?
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Re: [Balin] In seinen Armen das Kind war tot

Postby Hobbsicle » Mon Feb 17, 2020 9:26 pm

Was he one day short of being an adult when the group was made “distinct”? Was the group distinguished just before he was born? Would he have been part of a military?

Trying to run through my mental list of Bible situations. So they died over the course of years? From war? Is this before the exile? During?
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Re: [Balin] In seinen Armen das Kind war tot

Postby Balin » Tue Feb 18, 2020 8:39 pm

Well damn. I don’t know much about the Canaanites. Is Googling allowed? Yes, go right ahead

Was he one day short of being an adult when the group was made “distinct”? Yes Was the group distinguished just before he was born? No Would he have been part of a military? No

Trying to run through my mental list of Bible situations. So they died over the course of years? Yes From war? No Is this before the exile? Yes During? No
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Re: [Balin] In seinen Armen das Kind war tot

Postby Hobbsicle » Wed Feb 19, 2020 9:22 pm

Oh, is it related to the years of wandering, after being afraid to enter Canaan? I believe everyone of a certain age and older had to die in the desert before God would lead them in to the promised land, yes?
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Re: [Balin] In seinen Armen das Kind war tot

Postby Balin » Sat Feb 29, 2020 8:12 pm

Oh, is it related to the years of wandering, after being afraid to enter Canaan? I believe everyone of a certain age and older had to die in the desert before God would lead them in to the promised land, yes? Got it.

****SPOILER****

Midwife Rebekah saved Naomi's life when she was about to enter premature labor. In the process, Naomi's labor was slightly extended and her son Caleb was born one day after he would have. Because of this, Caleb was one day short of 20 years old at the time of the Israelite census, and thus was not among those condemned to die during the Israelites' 40-year wander through the wilderness.

(There was a hint in the puzzle statement, as Rebekah, Naomi, and Caleb are all somewhat prominent Old Testament persons, and Caleb was one of the two faithful spies who was allowed to enter the Promised Land.)

Sorry for the delay in spoiling, but well done!
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