[Balin] Feels like home

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[Balin] Feels like home

Postby Balin » Tue May 12, 2020 10:22 pm

Michael and James each make a decision. For years after, certain groups of people become confused because of this. Why?

ROIMBT
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Re: [Balin] Feels like home

Postby GalFisk » Thu May 14, 2020 2:34 am

Did they anticipate this confusion? Intend it? Is the confusion a result of mixing up things with similar names? Or people? Are their decisions similar in nature? Are they aware of each other at the time of their decisions? Aware of the decision of the other? If not, would they have decided differently if they were?
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Re: [Balin] Feels like home

Postby WiZ » Thu May 14, 2020 9:05 pm

Are they both HAMs? Do either M or J occupy positions of power/authority or influence? Do they make decisions that affect people as a matter of routine? Are they responsible for policy, law, rules, or the naming or signage of places, items, or people?

Did they give something or someone a name? Did they write instructions or give directions? Did they attempt to set or codify a rule?

Did they act in concert to make this decision? Did their decisions contradict each other? Did they expect the decision to have far-reaching consequences? Would it be reasonable to expect that this confusion could arise?

Slightly weirded out by the names you've chosen for your last 2 puzzles; my Father is David Jon and my older brother is Michael James
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Re: [Balin] Feels like home

Postby Earnest » Fri May 15, 2020 7:59 am

M and J are fictional names right? Are they related somehow: colleges? antagonists? friends? enemies? relatives? father and son? brothers? twins? opponents? others?nobel prizes? scientists? politicians? waiter/secretaries of powerful people? Did they serve powerful people?

Did they make the decision together? one independently to the other? Did they make their decision public? Or maybe is the same decision to make it public that puzzled groups of people?
Relevant that it puzzled groups of people? Groups of people belonging to the same historical period? Making the same profession? Or is it like saying "generations of a group of people" (e.g. M and J were pharaohs the decided to die in a certain way, which puzzled generations of archaeologists)?

become confused because of this --> directly because of M and J decisions? Or maybe indirectly for the decisions (e.g. M and J decided to introduce something in an experiment which made them discover something new)

Did they decide not to do something? To do something rather than something else? Is the decision of M a consequence of the decision of J? VIceversa? (e.g. M and J were Mona Lisa and Leonardo: Mona Lisa decided to be portrayed by Leonardo, who, as a consequence, decided to stop another work he was doing. Hence he came up with Mona Lisa whose smile became enigmatic and famous) Did they decide to give their lives for someone/something? To sacrifice?

Is there people not confused by their decision (e.g. it was a religious decision)? Maybe M and J have a biblical connection? (ok my ill mind came up with the theory that M = Mark and J=John telling the story about Jesus Christ. Judas took the decision to betray Christ and Christ the one to accept the crucifixion).
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Re: [Balin] Feels like home

Postby Balin » Sat May 16, 2020 2:11 am

Did they anticipate this confusion? Probably Intend it? Possibly Is the confusion a result of mixing up things with similar names? Or people? This Are their decisions similar in nature? Yes Are they aware of each other at the time of their decisions? Yes Aware of the decision of the other? Yes If not, would they have decided differently if they were?

Are they both HAMs? Yes Do either M or J occupy positions of power/authority or influence? No Do they make decisions that affect people as a matter of routine? No Are they responsible for policy, law, rules, or the naming or signage of places, items, or people? No

Did they give something or someone a name? No (small -ish) Did they write instructions or give directions? No Did they attempt to set or codify a rule? No

Did they act in concert to make this decision? Possibly Did their decisions contradict each other? No Did they expect the decision to have far-reaching consequences? Possibly Would it be reasonable to expect that this confusion could arise? Yes

Slightly weirded out by the names you've chosen for your last 2 puzzles; my Father is David Jon and my older brother is Michael James I can promise I did NOT secretly look into your family records a week ago Wednesday. (Actually, Michael and James came directly from the online post where I read this. David and Jon... I had a reason, but I'll save it for the other puzzle.)

M and J are fictional names right? Yes, see above Are they related somehow: Yes colleges? antagonists? friends? enemies? relatives? father and son? brothers? This twins? opponents? others?nobel prizes? scientists? politicians? waiter/secretaries of powerful people? Did they serve powerful people? No

Did they make the decision together? one independently to the other? Either works Did they make their decision public? Yes, svv Or maybe is the same decision to make it public that puzzled groups of people? No
Relevant that it puzzled groups of people? Yes Groups of people belonging to the same historical period? Yes Making the same profession? Yes Or is it like saying "generations of a group of people" No (e.g. M and J were pharaohs the decided to die in a certain way, which puzzled generations of archaeologists)? No

become confused because of this --> directly because of M and J decisions? Yes Or maybe indirectly for the decisions (e.g. M and J decided to introduce something in an experiment which made them discover something new) No

Did they decide not to do something? To do something rather than something else? This Is the decision of M a consequence of the decision of J? It's possible VIceversa? It's also possible (e.g. M and J were Mona Lisa and Leonardo: Mona Lisa decided to be portrayed by Leonardo, who, as a consequence, decided to stop another work he was doing. Hence he came up with Mona Lisa whose smile became enigmatic and famous) No Did they decide to give their lives for someone/something? No To sacrifice? No

Is there people not confused by their decision Yes (e.g. it was a religious decision)? But not this Maybe M and J have a biblical connection?No (ok my ill mind came up with the theory that M = Mark and J=John telling the story about Jesus Christ. Judas took the decision to betray Christ and Christ the one to accept the crucifixion). No
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Re: [Balin] Feels like home

Postby GalFisk » Sat May 16, 2020 4:20 am

Are other people directly involved? Spouses? Kids? Nicknames relevant? Are they identical twins? Are their professions relevant? Hobbies? Interests? Something they have in common? Is their age difference relevant? If so, is it large? Small?
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Re: [Balin] Feels like home

Postby Balin » Mon May 18, 2020 6:16 pm

Are other people directly involved? No Spouses? Kids? Nicknames relevant? No Are they identical twins? Assume No, but it would work especially well if they were Are their professions relevant? For svv of profession, Yes Hobbies? Interests? Something they have in common? Yes, see earlier Is their age difference relevant? Yes If so, is it large? Small? This
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Re: [Balin] Feels like home

Postby JenBurdoo » Tue May 19, 2020 8:11 pm

Are they fraternal twins? Triplets? Are their parents the same, or are they half-siblings? One adopted or surrogate-parented?
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Re: [Balin] Feels like home

Postby Balin » Wed May 20, 2020 12:59 am

Are they fraternal twins? No, but it would work. (The "this" above was to "brothers," not "twins") Triplets? See prev Are their parents the same Assume so or are they half-siblings? No, but it would still probably work One adopted or surrogate-parented? No, but it would still probably work
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Re: [Balin] Feels like home

Postby Earnest » Thu May 21, 2020 7:37 am

Kennedy brothers relevant? Relevant the time period in years? E.g. time between two terms of office? More than 5 years after? More than a century after?
Relevant when they took the decision? More than 50 years ago? More than 100 years ago? In a relevant period?
Is sport relevant? Team games?
By taking the decision, were they aware of the consequences on others? Did they write down their decision? Were people waiting their decision? Were newspapers? Or maybe it came how out of the blue?
Relevant Apartheid? Did they decide to sacrifice? To enter in a prohibited pub (hence maybe giving light to a protest and the people confused were their opponents not understanding why they protested?)

Is people confused mainly because: their decision was counterintuitive? It went apparently against their interests? It made no difference? It was exaggerate with respect to the effect that it produced?

Relevant who was confused by the decision? Would anyone be confused because of their decision? Had they not been brothers, would people be confused as well? Does it deal with their last name? With their appearance? Were the two famous? Does it maybe deal with the family amp? With the name they gave to a company? With rights? With
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Re: [Balin] Feels like home

Postby Balin » Fri May 22, 2020 12:01 am

Kennedy brothers relevant? No Relevant the time period in years? Not sure what you mean here E.g. time between two terms of office? No More than 5 years after? More than a century after?
Relevant when they took the decision? No More than 50 years ago? More than 100 years ago? In a relevant period? Assume it was sometime in the past few years - I read this online very recently, so it can't have been that far in the past
Is sport relevant? Team games? Neither
By taking the decision, were they aware of the consequences on others? Possibly Did they write down their decision? Were people waiting their decision? Were newspapers? Or maybe it came how out of the blue?
Relevant Apartheid? Did they decide to sacrifice? To enter in a prohibited pub (hence maybe giving light to a protest and the people confused were their opponents not understanding why they protested?) No to the rest of these

Is people confused mainly because: their decision was counterintuitive? It went apparently against their interests? It made no difference? It was exaggerate with respect to the effect that it produced? Not sure what you mean by this one. Rest are No

Relevant who was confused by the decision? Yes Would anyone be confused because of their decision? Not everyone, but a sizable group would Had they not been brothers, would people be confused as well? Less likely, but possible Does it deal with their last name? No With their appearance? No Were the two famous? No Does it maybe deal with the family amp? No With the name they gave to a company? NoWith rights? No
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Re: [Balin] Feels like home

Postby GalFisk » Sat May 23, 2020 8:46 am

Celebrities relevant? Nicknames? Paparazzi? Science? Did they confuse government officials? Law enforcement? Other authorities? Employers? Employees? Did they confuse people who they interacted with? Knew? People who heard about them? Read about them? Handled data about them? Did they confuse automated systems? Is the interent relevant (moreso than the fact that you read about it there)? Did they confuse people online? did they decide to share credentials to some online system? Other system? Did the confused people think they were the same person? Think they were each other? That they were other people? That they didn't exist? That some quality of theirs were different than it actually was? Photos relevant? Social media?
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Re: [Balin] Feels like home

Postby Balin » Mon May 25, 2020 4:06 am

Celebrities relevant? Nicknames? Paparazzi? Science? None of these
Did they confuse government officials? Law enforcement? Other authorities? Employers? Employees? They confused people who are employees of some sort (not their employees)
Did they confuse people who they interacted with? Yes Knew? To an extent People who heard about them? See first in this section Read about them? Yope/No Handled data about them? No Did they confuse automated systems? No Is the internet relevant (moreso than the fact that you read about it there)? No Did they confuse people online? No did they decide to share credentials to some online system? No Other system? No
Did the confused people think they were the same person? Think they were each other? This, good q That they were other people? That they didn't exist? That some quality of theirs were different than it actually was? Photos relevant? No Social media? No
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Re: [Balin] Feels like home

Postby emeraldink » Mon May 25, 2020 5:27 am

Did they decide to use their middle or nicknames instead of first names? Are these middle / nicknames the same?
Did they add suffixes to their full names? For example, II and III?

Did they choose identical images ( hair, style of clothing, manners )?

Did they marry twin sisters? Women with same first ( and middle ) names? And then had kids at the same time? This will surly create a confusion in a maternity ward. ;)

Did they buy ( rent? ) houses at the same addresses in different cities? This is suggested by the title...
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Re: [Balin] Feels like home

Postby Earnest » Mon May 25, 2020 7:29 am

Were they brothers in law? Imaginary brothers? Did they know each other? Were they prisoners? Is something like a paradox/loophole involved here? (e.g. they committed a crime ad said that one thought it was the other so that either of the two was really aware of the crime committed or directly faulty?)?

Was it evident at a first glance that they took such a decision? If so, for instance from a label they needed to wear at work? From the way they introduce themselves? Were they married? Did they live in separate houses? Did one of the two take the decision as a consequence of the other's decision? Writing books relevant? e.g. one was a writer and wrote a book in which he told a story from the point of view of his (imaginary?) brother. The brother in the book took the decision to be like his brother which in turn was the writer? Had they be 3 brothers, would the puzzle work? To be sure, M and J decided to "think" they were one the other right? No third brothers involved? Did they take the decision for a limited amount of time? For years? Until something happened?In a quiz show?


We said that the two decisions could have been independent one from the other right? Did someone die? Are tombstones relevant?

Was it a joke? Did they have an advantage in thinking to be the other?
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Re: [Balin] Feels like home

Postby Balin » Mon May 25, 2020 12:32 pm

Did they decide to use their middle or nicknames instead of first names? Yes! (middle names) Are these middle / nicknames the same? No, but OTRT
Did they add suffixes to their full names? No For example, II and III?

Did they choose identical images ( hair, style of clothing, manners )? No

Did they marry twin sisters? Women with same first ( and middle ) names? And then had kids at the same time? This will surely create a confusion in a maternity ward. ;) Great idea, but not this

Did they buy ( rent? ) houses at the same addresses in different cities? This is suggested by the title... Not that, but the title does have relevance.

Were they brothers in law? No Imaginary brothers? No Did they know each other? Yes Were they prisoners? No Is something like a paradox/loophole involved here? No (e.g. they committed a crime ad said that one thought it was the other so that either of the two was really aware of the crime committed or directly faulty?)? No

Was it evident at a first glance that they took such a decision? No (for strict definition of "glance") If so, for instance from a label they needed to wear at work? No From the way they introduce themselves? Yes Were they married? No Did they live in separate houses? No Did one of the two take the decision as a consequence of the other's decision? Possibly, but irrel Writing books relevant? No (e.g. one was a writer and wrote a book in which he told a story from the point of view of his (imaginary?) brother. The brother in the book took the decision to be like his brother which in turn was the writer?) No Had they be 3 brothers, would the puzzle work? Possibly To be sure, M and J decided to "think" they were one the other right? No, they knew who they were No third brothers involved? Correct, it's just the two of them Did they take the decision for a limited amount of time? No For years? Yes, presumably Until something happened? No In a quiz show? No

We said that the two decisions could have been independent one from the other right? Right Did someone die? No Are tombstones relevant? No

Was it a joke? Possibly (even likely) Did they have an advantage in thinking to be the other? No
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Re: [Balin] Feels like home

Postby GalFisk » Mon May 25, 2020 1:55 pm

Mail relevant? Friends? Were their first names relevantly written somewhere? Their middle names?
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Re: [Balin] Feels like home

Postby Balin » Mon May 25, 2020 4:00 pm

Mail relevant? Friends? Neither Were their first names relevantly written somewhere? Yes Their middle names? Possibly, but assume No
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Re: [Balin] Feels like home

Postby emeraldink » Mon May 25, 2020 4:36 pm

Did they introduce themselves as Michael James and James Michael? But never added middle names officially?
Or, perhaps, Michael Michael and James James? :lol:

Did they have more than one middle name each?
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Re: [Balin] Feels like home

Postby Balin » Mon May 25, 2020 9:28 pm

Did they introduce themselves as Michael James and James Michael? No, but OTRT! But never added middle names officially? No
Or, perhaps, Michael Michael and James James? :lol: No, but nice idea

Did they have more than one middle name each? No
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Re: [Balin] Feels like home

Postby GalFisk » Tue May 26, 2020 2:57 pm

Did they have each other's first names as middle names? Did they both have the same middle name?
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Re: [Balin] Feels like home

Postby Balin » Tue May 26, 2020 4:53 pm

Did they have each other's first names as middle names? This Did they both have the same middle name?

****SPOILER****

Michael's middle name is "James," and James' is "Michael." Both brothers decided to go by their middle names instead, regularly confusing their teachers.

A note regarding an earlier question: some schools do include middle names on class rosters, but others don't. I suspect the latter would cause more confusion.

Additionally, the title comes from Madonna's "Like a Prayer": "I hear you call my name, and it feels like home."


Nicely worked through!
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